That was then, this is now . . .

That was then, this is now . . .
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Posted by:
Dr.wow ^Ž

10/26/2005, 21:42:41
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I was just thinkin' the other day about all the programs I had attended where Rawat pretty much blew a gasket screaming at me to surrender and be more devoted to him and knowledge.

Actually, the concept of devotion was always a huge stumbling block for me. I always wondered why this was necessary to practice knowledge. I know now that he was merely importing wholesale the Hindu concept and practice of bhakti yoga whereby being a worshipper of the teacher would ultimately bring about transcendence. This was obstensibly through some "magical" process imparted from the guru and taught to us as being by his "grace". I never really bought into this, I guess I inherently knew that it was nonsense.

Many times the idea of surrendering to "Guru Maharaj Ji" was used interchangeably with surrendering to "holy name" or the knowledge, this always seemed to me to be an intentional blurring of the lines. The implication of course was that Guru and this inner experience were one and the same. And also that loving him or being devoted to him actually could trump meditation as being the way to find our "bliss".

Why am I bringing this up now? Well, given all that we know now about Malibu Prem the boozer and abuser it gets very difficult indeed to just chalk all this crap up to some kind of cultural misunderstanding or youthful naivety as EV would like people to think. Here is a guy who put out an "instructor training manual" which talked in the heaviest of details about commitment and dedication and devotion and warned us about the possibility of shattering into a million pieces that could never be put back together again should that commitment and devotion ever waver. Arrogant, manipulative and deluded? Those would be some of the kinder words . . .

Modified by Dr.wow at Wed, Oct 26, 2005, 21:44:38

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Re: That was then, then is now... --- Marianne ( Wed, Oct 26, 2005, 22:26:11 ) ( 170 bytes ) +1

Re: That was then, then is now... --- bill ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 23:50:00 ) ( 117 bytes ) +1

Hi bill --- Marianne ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 11:17:30 ) ( 58 bytes ) link

Now is still then... --- Mike Finch ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 05:04:59 ) ( 1714 bytes ) link +3

Actually, I think Wow's got a point there --- Jim ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 10:20:08 ) ( 1297 bytes ) +3

I think you are right, Jim --- Joe ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 13:12:06 ) ( 1098 bytes ) +2

I remember that period well --- T ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 14:03:51 ) ( 1441 bytes ) +1

Re: I remember the end of that period differently --- paddy ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 16:16:44 ) ( 911 bytes ) +2

It was a very fearful thing to leave at that time. --- Joe ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 17:09:03 ) ( 2514 bytes ) +3

We all have different perspectives --- JHB ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 18:20:25 ) ( 1322 bytes ) +2

They were the best of times, they were the worst of times --- Jim ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 19:48:14 ) ( 1569 bytes ) +1

Re: They were the best of times, they were the worst of times --- paddy ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 16:09:49 ) ( 1035 bytes )

the value of the ordinary --- 13 ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 14:50:55 ) ( 131 bytes )

That's how it was for me as well. (no text) --- Dr.wow ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 18:44:22 ) ( 0 bytes ) +1

Hey Doctor.... --- Joe ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 15:03:04 ) ( 214 bytes ) +1

Re: Hey Doctor.... --- Dr.wow ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 16:10:43 ) ( 357 bytes )

Re: It was a very fearful thing to leave at that time. --- Steve ( Sat, Oct 29, 2005, 11:01:11 ) ( 669 bytes ) +1

Maharaji said you would go to hell... --- Joe ( Mon, Oct 31, 2005, 11:36:12 ) ( 448 bytes ) +1

Re: Maharaji said you would go to hell... --- Steve ( Tue, Nov 01, 2005, 18:14:01 ) ( 519 bytes ) +2

Re: Maharaji said you would go to hell... --- Gallery ( Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 01:21:39 ) ( 431 bytes ) link
Re: Maharaji said you would go to hell... --- Joe ( Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 17:12:46 ) ( 608 bytes )

I guess I ought to clarify --- T ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 01:38:08 ) ( 1184 bytes ) +1

Re: clarification accepted --- paddy ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 16:15:49 ) ( 743 bytes ) +1

Re: clarification accepted --- T ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 17:05:46 ) ( 1662 bytes )

Re: I think you are right, Jim --- Cynthia ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 14:19:47 ) ( 1399 bytes ) +1

Right, the Poconos program was in 1977, not 1979. --- Joe ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 14:35:39 ) ( 39 bytes ) +1

Poconos --- AJW ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 03:49:06 ) ( 192 bytes ) +2

Speaking of Poconos.... --- Joe ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 11:38:16 ) ( 753 bytes ) +1

LOL sounds like a tourist ad! --- Susan ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 14:15:40 ) ( 143 bytes ) +1

Thanks for the chuckle! --- Jim ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 14:47:48 ) ( 175 bytes )

Re: Poconos --- 13 ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 14:55:14 ) ( 141 bytes )

Re: Actually, I think Wow's got a point there --- Jethro ( Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 14:01:40 ) ( 487 bytes )
It's all in the Gita Jim. --- AJW ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 03:31:09 ) ( 887 bytes ) +2

Ah yes, where would I be without the Gita of all things? --- Jim ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 09:30:32 ) ( 929 bytes ) +1

LOL. (ot) --- AJW ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 09:51:46 ) ( 107 bytes )

Re:Gita says devotion to Krishna, not Rawat (no text) --- paddy ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 16:18:41 ) ( 0 bytes ) +2

Re: Gita says devotion to Krishna, not Rawat --- Steve ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 16:30:11 ) ( 354 bytes ) link
How soon you have forgotten Paddy. --- AJW ( Sat, Oct 29, 2005, 03:56:04 ) ( 187 bytes )

Re: Now is still then... --- Steve ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 08:26:36 ) ( 460 bytes ) link
Re: Now is still then... --- PatD ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 14:21:41 ) ( 1868 bytes )

And Prem Rawat/Guru had this to say about himself... --- Hilltop ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 01:12:56 ) ( 0 bytes ) file img +1

Can you give the reference for this quote?? --- Mike Finch ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 04:11:50 ) ( 133 bytes ) +1

Can you give the reference for this quote?? Sure Thing! --- Hilltop ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 10:58:56 ) ( 259 bytes ) +1

Thanks --- Mike Finch ( Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 12:41:46 ) ( 109 bytes ) +1

His Golden ~ "Shower of Grace" ~ Page 37. --- Hilltop ( Sat, Oct 29, 2005, 22:53:17 ) ( 512 bytes ) file img