EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label
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Posted by:
Joe ®

06/21/2006, 13:40:30
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Although they have toned down some of the really insane stuff, Elan Vital's main website still refers to critics of Maharaji as a "hate group."  Note the following from the "faq" section of www.elanvital.org :

First, they start out with this, with the usual, loaded, dishonest, biased, self-serving "FAQ." Not only do former premies criticize Maharaji, they are out to "negate" his work and are "dedicated" to that:

Is it true there is a group of former students who dedicate their time and energies to negating Maharaji’s work?

Then the answer, again biased and dishonest, because there are many more than a "handful" and many of us, including me, are not anonymous:


Yes, it is true. For a few years, a handful of disgruntled former students operating under the cloak of anonymity have hidden behind the Internet’s cloak of anonymity to disparage Maharaji, his students and Elan Vital.

Then, the cult immediately switches to calling us a "hate group" with no support or evidence, in the next sentence:

One of the hate groups’ favorite dirty tricks is creating multiple web pages with the same hate speech, unsupported allegations and hearsay under different domain names to create the impression that more people support their views than in reality.

Isn't that special?

Then, in a later paragraph, EV uses pseudo-psychology to diagnose our problems (we are not only hateful, we are obsessed), and EV then turns Maharaji into a victim "voice for peace" who is persecuted like "Ghandi" and "Martin Luther King," who I dare say would roll over in their graves at being compared to the self-centered, obscenely materialistic, aging, boy-Lord:

Why do people become part of a hate group?


Sociologists and mental health experts have speculated about the reasons for Internet-based hate. Understanding the motives that lead to obsessive hate-mongering is difficult. Historically, most voices for peace have been targets of violent reactions. Gandhi and Rev. Martin Luther King were assassinated...

I note that the US EV website no longer includes a list of all the other psychological problems, and the mental and moral defects we all have that make us not "normal."  In fact, not only are we not "normal," we are not "ordinary," "functional?!" nor are we "law abiding citizens."  Golly.  [One wonders how they could have known any of that (to the extent there is a word of truth in any of it) if we are indeed all anonymous, but as we can see even internal consistency is not a problem for Maharaji and his cult.]

However, in keeping with the generally more fanatic cult membership down under, the Australian website still has that crap at http://www.elanvital.com.au/faq/article.php?id=084

There, you can read the following:

Are the people in this hate group credible?
Of the 15-20 people posting as various anonymous personae on the hate site, it has been documented that:
  • One has been hospitalised for hallucinatory paranoia.
  • One has acknowledged suffering from multiple personality disorder.
  • One became a member of the hate group after surgery to remove a brain tumour that affected his cognitive abilities.
  • One receives a pension for permanent mental disability.
  • One runs a pornographic film production business.
  • One, a lawyer, acknowledged in writing having embezzled $18,000 from an organisation supporting Maharaji's work.
  • Another, also a lawyer, has acknowledged having been arrested three times. Although this same person insists that Maharaji "must" be guilty of some tax fraud, she herself has been levied by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service for tax arrears of more than US$200,000.
  • One, Neville Ackland from Australia, is in prison after being convicted for illegal weapons possession as well as possession of 150 lbs. of marijuana.
  • One, a notorious cyber-hacker, was subjected to a restraining order after being investigated for domestic violence.
  • Journalist John Macgregor from Byron Bay was recently held liable by the Supreme Court of Queensland for theft of private financial and credit data and convicted for contempt of court.

This is not exactly a cross-section of normal, ordinary, functional, law-abiding citizens.

From what I can tell, this "information" is almost completely made up and some of it has been specifically addressed and shown to be false, and most of it appears to have come from the "Citizens Against Cyberstalking" website that followers of Rawat set up to attack and blackmail ex-premise from posting on the internet.   The cult also has no problem being associated with that, nor do they have any problem with continuing to exploit, harass, libel, and abuse, John Macgregor for the cult's own ends.

Anyhow, I think the front page of EPO should have a general response to the Elan Vital websites that label critics as a "hate group."  I'll suggest a response that other people can comment on and edit, in the following post. 

 




Related link: Rawat cult calls ex-premies a
Modified by Joe at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 14:27:09

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Possible Response, very rough, just off the top of my head.
Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

06/21/2006, 14:11:41
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I suggest something like the following:

Regarding Maharaji Cult Accusations that Former Followers of Prem Rawat/Maharaji Are a "Hate Group."

Elan Vital, the organizational arm of the Maharaji cult, on its various websites around the world, has labeled former followers of Prem Rawat who are critical of him and speak out on the internet, with the "hate group" tag, and has also attempted to couple the accusation with words like "obsessive" and "disease" [link, link, link] which is all obviously meant to pathologize and marginalize opponents of the cult.  After all, to be called a "hater," in itself suggests irrationality, and Elan Vital's various websites leave little doubt that they accuse their opponents as actually imbalanced.  If Elan Vital can allege that critical former members are irrational or derranged "haters," according to this strategy, then there is no need to marshall serious rebuttals to their criticisms. 

This is not a particularly unusual activity of cults, and we note that Scientology, among others, has also engaged in such behavior.  Not only are Elan Vital's defamatory and libellous accusations false, they also reflect a glaring weakness that the cult possesses.  It cannot respond to the actual, factual information and commentary on the ex-premie.org webiste and other websites of former followers of Maharaji, it can only throw wild, irresponsible, accusations at those who make such criticisms.

It should be obvious to any objective observer, that the cult's failure to address criticisms places the "cult" label even more firmly on Prem Rawat's endeavors, and means that the cult wil likely become even more paranoid and more stagnant, because as any child knows, growth requires honesty, facing criticism directly and taking responsbility, something that Prem Rawat and his cult have never been able to do.






Modified by Joe at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 14:17:41

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Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label
Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nik ®

06/21/2006, 15:06:32
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When did the term 'student' come to be used ? Dunno 'bout anyone else but I was never a student [of Rawat] - and I'm certainly not a former student [of Rawat]. Trouble is when you start  disentangling the cult speak and its layers of disemblement and self serving revisionism there's nothing left to challenge really. All just happy premie fantasy.

Maybe the  hate group slander from the various EV sites should just be posted as a collection somewhere with all the names of the various EV trustees and honchos (who must obviously agree with it) listed along side.

Nik







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Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label
Re: Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label -- Nik Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

06/21/2006, 17:25:35
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I don't recall ever hearing the term "student" in connection with Rawat except within the past five years or so.  I also was never a "student" of Maharaji, I was a "devotee" of Maharaji and that's what he called us, or at least he said that's what we should pray, surrender, submit, hope, to be.

Mike made a good point in his article.  EV claims that ex-premies are "anonymous" which largely is not true, but at the same time, there is no real person to talk to at EV about those claims -- there is no listed "author" of those comments, and they hide by behind the anonymous "church" that is Elan Vital.







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You can use my article....
Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Mike Finch ®

06/21/2006, 15:16:58
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Hi Joe

I responded to these Hate Group allegations a while ago on my website www.mikefinch.com/mj/art/hg.htm.

You or anyone is free to use any of that article if you want, or to link it directly.

-- Mike




www.MikeFinch.com


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I think we need something more just as a statement
Re: You can use my article.... -- Mike Finch Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

06/21/2006, 17:00:47
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Mike, you're article is great as an analysis of the actual EV statements, but I think on EPO we need just a summary statement without getting into the details, maybe with a link to your article. Since EV is carrying on using the "hate group" label with no end in sight, I think if somebody comes to EPO they should see it addressed on the front page, IMO.







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Good idea, Joe
Re: I think we need something more just as a statement -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joy ®

06/22/2006, 01:12:11
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I agree. To be labeled part of a hate group when you're just trying to tell the world the truth about an individual who rips people off physically and spiritually, needs to be addressed.

They are borrowing the "student" thing from Buddhism, where people study with various Rinpoche's or teachers and are labeled students. It is more respectable and mature sounding than devotee, which implies a much more unequal relationship and less "self" remaining of the "student". The term student as it relates to Maharaji's followers is bogus and misleading, as Maharaji demands devotion and nothing less, pure and simple, as he is the head of a personality cult. Worship of him as the Lord is the kernel of what being a student of his is all about, no matter how they try and whitewash it. And being a student implies you actually learn something with your mind. Nothing could be further from the truth of what "knowledge" is -- i.e. an emptying of your mind and will to Maharaji.







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Re: Good idea, Joe
Re: Good idea, Joe -- Joy Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
LP ®

06/22/2006, 04:36:57
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 Spot on!  Joy.   A good, succinctly accurate  post.


Lp






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Re: Even worse than "Hate Group"
Re: Good idea, Joe -- Joy Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Ocker ®

06/22/2006, 15:39:42
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I find it far worse being labelled as a "former student" of Prem Rawat than as an obsessed member of an Anti-Rawat Hate Group. While I was prepared to tentatively accept the young Rawat as a possible incarnation of God I am far too great an intellectual snob to accept him as a teacher. And as for his teachings, they can be succinctly explained in less than 5 minutes and certainly do not require 35 years of repetitious explication.

I'm shocked any premie would even mention 1971. That's pretty welll 35 years of practise and propagation and what is there to show for it? Well shamelessness for starters, else they wouldn't have the gall to metion they've had "Knowledge" this long and achieved so little. I'm a couple of years behind the premie times these days but surely they must be moving into a "Knowledge was never meant for the majority" viewpoint else they're moving further and further into fantasyland.






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Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label
Re: EPO Should Respond to Elan Vital's "Hate Group" Label -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

06/22/2006, 06:51:27
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I absolute agree, Joe and it's a good idea.

I had three power blink outs trying to respond this morning, so I'm keeping this short until we're stable here.

Ah, rural life...

Cynth







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