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If you feel "he was teaching the same things" that you believe, then you are anything but a "Strong Christian!"Where did Christ insist that you devote your life only to him, personally? Where did Christ say that you should only send your donations to him so he can live in obsene pleasure? Where did he say that the air, plants, sun and everything else were "unimportant?" In what passage was Jesus quoted as saying that he thought suicide was "funny?" Where did he state that you shouldn't care about anyone else (e.g. don't give to the poor, instead give to "me")? Oh, and once Jesus admitted to being god in human form...... he never reliquished or denied it thereafter, unlike a certain rawat we know. I'm most certainly NOT a "Strong Christian," but I recognize the difference in teachings with just a cursory overview of the two "religions." (e.g. Christianity and Rawatism). Does your pastor/priest know that you are interested in a CULT? No, I didn't think so!
Modified by NAR at Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 15:32:52
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"Thousands of people..."
Thousands? That's not what I heard. Nothing close. I believe the number I heard was "maybe a thousand". And that was from a premie on the spot.
Is he ever going to actually say anything? This is the same old crap. It's like the pablum you feed a baby: they eat it because they know nothing else. Once they mature and learn about all the food in the world...real food...very, very few kids will still eat the stuff. They are far too wise to still go for the pablum.
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Last year Elan Vital claimed "over 1,200" and now this year "thousands" at the same convention center? Well, it all depends on what you mean by "thousands".
Someone else who exaggerates numbers: "Sai Baba":
SBs exaggerations of numbers
and also Scientology with their fudging of their 'stats'.
Modified by G at Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 21:27:50
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That's about what I thought, thanks for the info. I'm not surprised that they exaggerated. Actually, I think Rawat's getting even more obtuse, based on what he's been saying this year so far. I don't know how anyone can listen to him anymore as a premie.
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Ghad! I can hardly be bothered to deconstruct this, it's late here, but anyway:
"Blahh blahh inside of you, bla bl' blah inside of you, blahh..blibidy blah inside of you.".... "You are alive". (phew, that's a relief!) "The miracle of all miracles is taking place right in front of you!" (he means himself.) And then his 'get out' clause."one breath is good enough to wipe out all the bad." (Which means one remembrance of holy name will remove all sins.) Some hopes: chump!
Yawn, I'm going to catch a few hours shuteye before the dawn chorus starts.
Thankyou for today's brilliant posts.
btw, NAR you have mail. (should say equation not formula)
LP
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 02:35:37
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LP,
Thanks and WOW! I saw the equation and it is quite mind blowing, to say the least. I'll respond via email a bit later.  You are right in the post above. He makes the obvious "you are alive" statement as if people didn't know that little tidbit. How utterly profound! Well, of course it is profound...... we ARE alive and life is pretty cool. I think we learned that a long time ago. Moreover, with each discovery made, concerning life and its evolution, it is even more so. To me, the most obvious way to "appreciate" life is to know how it works. To learn as much as we can about it. Same with the entire universe and all its contents, laws, etc. That is respect! Sitting around just oogling at it equates to a "stare" as far as I am concerned. As we all know, our mothers told us it was impolite to stare. Anyway, I noticed that the more I actually learned about life, the universe and everything, the more respect I had for its collective existence. Science didn't "reduce" my awe, it explained it and, quite frankly, made it even more awesome. Why people think that technology ruins "awe" is beyond me. Why people think science takes the important parts of the "mystery" away really eludes me. Knowing how it works is not just personally satisfying, it is "uplifting!" It makes me appreciate it even more, as I noted above. While I don't worship "science" as such, I do treat it like it was a "bible" with serious corrections made. I don't care of there is an ID or not. It looks to be an unnecessary human/philosophical construct, but who really cares? I don't! What matters to me is the here and now (not the Ram Das version)....... AND the future. Here and now because that is where I am at the moment. If I am too busy looking into the future all the time, I'll miss what is present. This directly applies to my scientific pursuits, of course. I pay attention to the future because that is where any knowledge gained NOW will be put to better use. We certainly want to ensure that what we discover today isn't forgotten. THat has happened in human history and it can take a millenia to "rediscover" something we should have already known. Anyway...... M is anything but profound. He talks about "life" and all, yet has not a single inkling of how truely marvelous it all is. Sorry, but an elementary school education just doesn't cut it in this regard.
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NAR, Why people think that technology ruins "awe" is beyond me. Why people think science takes the important parts of the "mystery" away really eludes me. Knowing how it works is not just personally satisfying, it is "uplifting!" It makes me appreciate it even more, as I noted above. I agree (even though I'm not a scientist), but it's the science of say, the beauty of nature and all it's wondrousness that makes more curious to lean more about it. But it's not limited to nature -- I read about lots of things because the more I read, the more curious I am. That's what human nature is, imo. One of the things that I did upon leaving the ashram was to start reading. I read a lot of books and I couldn't believe how "thirsty" I had been for real knowledge and the appreciation of learning about everything and anything. I guess you could call me a book addict. M is anything but profound. He talks about "life" and all, yet has not a single inkling of how truely marvelous it all is. Sorry, but an elementary school education just doesn't cut it in this regard. The thing about the Captain that's strange is he isn't even an autodidact, except he does learn things about which he's interested like piloting, cars, computers, recording studios, and probably fancy stuff for his palaces. Even as recently as 1999 or so he was saying he doesn't read books, which explains why he sounds so terribly uneducated and downright dumb when he talks about the obvious like "you are alive, you breathe." He underestimates the intelligence of his audience all of the time and that's a reflection upon his own long self-imposed isolation from real people. All he has around him are sycophants. That's got to be a boring way to live, unless one likes being waiting on hand and foot all of the time. I think he's basically a lazy person who doesn't exercise his brain cells much.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 12:05:11
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"... He underestimates the intelligence of his audience all of the time and that's a reflection upon his own long self-imposed isolation from real people...."I think it is due to his own lack of education. If "I" don't understand it, then nobody understands it (or it cannot be important, since I don't understand it).... if you catch my drift. The old saying goes: "If a pick-pocket sees a saint, all he sees is his pockets...." That kind of thing. If an under-educated person meets a professor, all he sees is another under-educated person. By under-educated, I mean someone who has not made it past elementary school. HS graduates seem to be well aware that there are others who have more experience and are much more knowledgable than they are. It might be something that comes with age, but M's inability to grasp that would seem indicate that it has more to do with under-education. Thus, I think he really DOES believe that premies are as ignorant as he is....... maybe the whole world! I remember the descriptions, by his teachers, that made it sound like he was a pretty poor student, too. Like he didn't think any of it was important, at all. Well, nothing has changed in that regard, except that he is alot older and no wiser. I'm beginning to think that his kids being in college may not be due to him, but that Marolyn put a stake in the ground and insisted that her kids be educated (or else!). If so, good for her. In this country, she would have more than ample backing to see to it that this happened. Kids have been taken away for alot less. Anyway, to your point...... I think he sees premies as ignorant purely because he, himself, is so ignorant. Of course, knowledge of how the world works is unimportant..... HE can't understand it and has no desire to understand it, therefore it is unimportant! How simple!
Modified by NAR at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 12:29:48
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I think he also might see them as without intelligence, in the sense of without access to information technology and the world wide web.
For those who are not able cross the technology divide, these words are their only reference. They believe them implicitly why wouldn't they? I know premies who seemed to regard the internet as something suspect, to be avoided. As if it were inevitable that they would end up reading EPO or more as if they didn't trust themselves, not to be tempted to have a peek one day: fear that they might get linked to the wrong site and find themselves reading any one of a thousand sentences that could turn their world around, or whatever  A few years ago this might have been true for many, but now, these are a minority, it is becoming easier and easier to use, There can only be a steady increase in the flow of information and fact, however slow at first.
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 17:09:07
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Again, this wasn't meant to impune the actual knowledge levels or education of the premies themselves. I know that many of them are very well educated, indeed. But the perfect bozo seems to think they aren't. All he sees is ignorance because that is all he consists of...... ignorance. I remember well that little story he told about Premlata saying, when she was quite young, that when the sun set it was the "sun going to bed" or something similar. The problem is that Rawat seems to actually think this, while his daughter has certainly grown out of that idea. I know that is a stretch, but given what he says and how he says it, you'd have to agree it would be hard to argue with me on this one. Based upon how he talks to premies, he seems to think that they think like Premlata did when she was two years old....... or that he is only capable of communicating at that level...... or maybe a little of both. As to your thoughts on the premie's fear of reading the internet, I have to agree with you 100 percent. It IS threatening to anyone whose faith is weak. And I thought M said faith and belief had nothing to do with his trip..... we'd KNOW, dammit! No faith necessary! So what happened to THAT promise, anyway? If premies, as a group, are guilty of anything it's just the shortness of their memory. We were made many promises..... many promises straight out of his mouth. Not one has been kept. Think about it..... it isn't just the promises of liberation and that sorrt of thing. He made promises to ashram premies, he made promises to those who wanted to follow a bit of karma yoga (DUO) and all sorts of other promises. How many have been kept? Anyone? That is a list I'd like to see: The many "promises" of rawat! Along with a scoreboard indicating which ones were kept and which were not. I still maintain that not a single premie has reached "liberation" as described in those many, many books. The descriptions of which are quite similar despite the differences in language, location and time. If there were anyone "liberated," we'd surely know about it. Man, that drifted a bit to starboard, didn't it?
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You seem to have set a good course to me.
Speaking of which, if these premies are students of 30 yrs+ plus standing, where are the hallowed halls of their learning? Where are the oak and brass plaques worn smooth by awed freshmen's curiosity. The long lists of old girls and old boys. The dates of their graduation, their first samadhi, the day of their enlightenment. we are a bit hard done by, but we are not so sad as old joe premie, sorry "student" still studying, with no visible school, but too devoted to mention it. Like the premature burial of Hans Moleman: "I didn't want to make a fuss, but now that you mention it!"
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 18:37:26
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"A thousand years of peace", wasn't that one? Or was that Hitler? I get them mixed up.
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It's a popular round no!
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 17:55:53
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"Even In Your Darkest Hour I Will Not Abandon You"
To this, may I just say, Bull Shit. Of course, if the lard was never with you in the first place, a promise to not abandon you is easily made, is it not?
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Keep 'em coming! Hey.... wait a minute, PS...... were you a premie? You seem to know just a bit too much for a bystander, ya know..... and OLD stuff too..... hmmmmmmm My jaundiced eye is getting a little twitch in it! LOL!
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No, I wasn't a premie. I was an aspirant. And I've studied the subject trying to understand what the hell is going on. I still don't understand. I understand that ensnarement by a cult happens, I understand a little bit of how it can happen. I guess what I don't understand is the willful blindness one puts oneself through to stay safe in the cult. Blind to everything! Truth? I thought it was all about truth. What the hell does "satsang" mean? I've been told about half a dozen definitions of the word, and truth has generally been part of those definitions. Who are they kidding? The last thing, the very last thing, people stuck in a cult want, is the truth. That is why you can't have a discussion with a premie, on-line or in person. They can't do it. They might try. But, in the end, they have to retreat under their safety blanket of "not knowing". One of the constants I find in active premies is avoiding the truth. Ironically, most of them view themselves, I believe, as the opposite, as seekers of truth. God, it's enough to make me despair.
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Yes, indeed PS! Of course I was joking about you being a premie. I remembered you mentioning that you had aspired to be hoodwinked, but didn't quite make it You are right, it IS exasperating! But don't give up. Well, I guess I can't really say that..... but don't give up til you are really ready to give up. You are a really good person, PS..... I'm amazed at your patience with your own situation. I am glad we can be here to support you when you need to vent.
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Thanks, NAR. It's hard to imagine what I'd do without the forum to discuss this mess and to vent, as you say. In all likelihood, if I were in this all alone, I would have decided that I was wrong, all the premies were right, and signed on to be another sucker. Wow, shudder! Thank you all for the forum!!!
(Loved the "Flip-em-off Nebula", by the way.)
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and the universe responds! It's for real, I "promise!"
Modified by NAR at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 18:25:21
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NAR, that is awesome and funny at the same time, nice blend.
Where can I find loads of space pictures, nebulae etc.? I get shivers. Or a telescope?
the lowest part looks like a lady swinging on a swing.
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 18:35:15
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The "rude gesture" nebula. It's actually in the Carina Nebula (NGC 3372) and sits next to the part of the complex referred to as the "Keyhole." The very best place to get pictures of this variety is on the NASA APOD site (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/). APOD stands for Astronomy Picture of the Day. Look back in their archives and you can find a "bazillion" great photos at resolutions that can often be selected to display best on your screen. I've got many links, but that is the one that consistently "wins" or ends up with the very best.
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This is obviously a Hubble photo. Even with adaptive optics, earthbound telescopes would not be able to image this nebula to this resolution. I cannot wait for the James Webb. Never mind the beauty involved in some of these photos...... the data collected is like a pile of diamonds! Hubble has gone WAY beyond its intended mission parameters. To say it has accomplished its mission is an understatement in the extreme. You want an example? Look at that photo again. In the upper left hand corner you see something that looks like a "knot" of material or an upside down droplet. That is a protoplanetary system that is a new star surrounded by a dense cloud of matter that could form a system like our own. By looking at it in the Near-Infrared and Infrared bands, we can see past the dust and spy the star within. Undoubtedly you've seen other photos like this....... until Hubble, we never saw any of those knots. We "thought" something like that would exist, but had no detailed images. Now we see them all over the place. These potential proto-planetaries are far more common than anyone anticipated. Of course, from a public support point of view (and from an aesthetic point of view), the fact that these images are gorgeous doesn't hurt. The fact that one such nebula-entity thinks so little of rawat's description of the purpose of the universe makes it darned near perfect, no?
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Thanks for this link NAR, I took a quick look, just going back to check out some more.
A little later....
Awe. Wonder.....
later still.......
As a boy, I loved this subject. My favorite encyclopedia was always no. 8, the Astronomy one. Patrick Moore's The Sky at Night a favorite TV program.
The most cosmic experience, always for me was, when young; looking up at the stars at night.
I just remembered how we used to blow our minds as young boys, by looking up at the stars until we went dizzy, it felt like were falling into them.
We had a simple line of conversation that induced a sort of "allness" experience.
we would assume to debate on two sides of an argument:
One would say something like "but behind that there must be something, like a wall or something'
and the other would say "but what's behind the wall"
We'd laugh, but we'd fall silent for a long time, our heads tilted back.
We could not describe, or even absorb, the impossibility, yet self evident reality of it all, all in one and the same moment.
We'd walk on but the 'woh!' I felt, stayed with me. I remember feeling a sense of frustration, that I would never know whether what my friend experienced was the same as the weird, indescribable, knee shaking feeling of simultaneous wonder and utter insignificance that I felt, and, in some way, was still feeling as we walked home.
And it wasn't going to go away. Any moment, we could look up, yup! it's all still just floating up there. WOH!
And it has never gone away.
It was as if gurus would try
to put a roof over the sky,
To project their own array.
And put their face on space.
But that feeling, induced by the heavens will not go away, it is our gift, "our permanent acid"
and you Sir, have, with these Archive
Quite blown my mind!
Lp (Just nipping outside again for second)
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 23, 2006, 05:38:14
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This is it! Oh Thankyou again! This is all the God I need!
This feeling of awe, and insignifance seems to be the correct, respectful position to have, relative to the universe.
An attempt to profess to "know" something about "out there" from "here" on earth, spiritually I mean, seems,
in these minuscle forms just uninformed audacity. Or, because, at heart we are all children,
just silly nonsense, but as far as space is concerned, it has no effect. To try to
'cop' some of that awe and respect (that is there: it has to be.
You have to be amazed getting born into this.)
But to try to capture that awe and respect
and force it be transferred to oneself
by devious cunning and skillfull
techniques, still ranks to
My Mind, among the
lowest things
I've seen
In the
sky.
or
On earth: but your study subjects are making a great deal of sense o NAR!
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 23, 2006, 04:59:55
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It isn't "mine" to reveal
The wonder that is "out there"
We are but the universe
Inspecting itself and thinking....."Wow, we did a decent job, no?" and then, as if atoms asking themselves, "How'd we do that?"
Note: I wax poetic, at times, but it is never as good as the universe looks to me!
Modified by NAR at Fri, Jun 23, 2006, 10:22:06
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In a way, my question looks back at us from our shaving mirrors.
Andrew's post has reminded me that I would have difficulties letting go of consciousness as at least something important to us now.
And there's this little conundrum: we all agree that it exists. We are conscious. Or is this only semantics, making a noun from an adjective? If we can have our noun,
consciousness, awareness, cognitive principle, and yet can find not one atom of it, we are still on course.
That is what I would expect. If it exists, a principle, whereby awareness of awareness exists, and I seem to be able to testify that this is so, and it has no physical form, then it cannot be touched by physical phenomena. Not destroyed.
Or is the brain the form of it merely? It is the only vessel we know of and yet our consciousness seems to transcend to ideas and ideals beyond the individual. I know that I admire it greatly: this race of humans, I would wish that the noble nature and depth of heart it extols might last for ever.
There was this secret model I had, no more than a matchbox toy, that consciousness might not be bound by distance in either space or time but be in some way outside the whole sphere of operation in which these things operate. The subtlety before the beginning and after the end. The pause in the vast breath of the universe, before the outbreath again, where nothing but the intention, the know how, and the ability to do it all again remains.
A strange thought, as if distance where relative and I was just looking at my own within.
And the whole thing is a moment in another time view. Silly, so I put away my matchbox.
I shake myself,
try to make sense of now.
And bring myself to the scientist to clean up my view, trammeled by religious, magical and wishful thinking.
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 23, 2006, 17:36:52
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"Rawat Speaks of the Universe and the Universe responds!"
Modified by NAR at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 18:59:05
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Modified by cq at Thu, Jun 22, 2006, 12:57:19
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Yup...... it's real, alright. When we first saw it, we referred to it as the "rude gesture" nebula. Well, some of us did, anyway.Pretty cool, eh?
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I use the term artifact to mean that they shouldn't really be there. The artifact is created by the way we measure distances to galaxies.This effect is very well understood and the explanation, while potentially quite heavy, basically boils down to this: When galaxies orbit within a galactic cluster, their orbital velocities will either add to or subtract from the observed redshifts. The redshifts that result will make the cluster appear to be spread out along the line of sight. In other words, "artifact."
Why do you ask? Don't answer here, I reposted this on the non-rawat forum. We can carry this on over there.
Modified by NAR at Thu, Jun 22, 2006, 16:53:02
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Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 13:04:29
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Right, it's not like there were all these bodies lying around and he said you are alive, and they all jump up: start walking around again.
I mean we all managed to get ourselves there didn't we! That alone is fair proof of that! Being alive I mean.
"Anyway, I noticed that the more I actually learned about life, the
universe and everything, the more respect I had for its collective
existence. Science didn't "reduce" my awe, it explained it and, quite
frankly, made it even more awesome".
This is a very inspiring sentence, it inspires me to study more, and to learn as much of the facts of the universe as I can understand.
It fills me with new anticipation at what may be waiting to be learned and grasped, nothing has failed to awe me as I discovered things from drops of dew, to leaf structures, to ring nebulae, to new born babies...
Each new thing we find in the universe carries the same awe as we ever had: the first time we saw a squirrel on a branch, flicking his tail at us, to tell us he sees us; or the first time we ever experienced a thunder storm when we were children. This sentence inspires me to expect awe, and to trust that there are always more new wonders to be discovered in the universe. And to ask, look, listen, read, even write in the' spirit' of discovery, without having to explain. Trusting that each new level of discovery will cast more light upon our understanding.
I am prepared to hazard a quess that there are interesting things and even levels of awe to be discovered, in every field, but you are a very wise person. The stellar universe must be one subject in which you can never doubt that awe is an inevitable companion to new discovery.
However there is much to be awed in the human being; in principle. And when we see the potential, the human character embodies (in principle,) there is a special awe, close to the heart and our own questions about why we are here. It is obvious the universe is not capable of sustaining this balance inevitably, but we are good for quite a few years to come. (Assuming we ourselves do not end it.)
As we are, as a race, insignificant to the universe, it is obvious that the universe is not focussed around human values. The idea of God is an exaggerated form of human idea. The universe is and does what it does, like it or not.. The heat of the sun is not cruelly hot. The deep dark depths of sparse stellar distribution are not lonely. This is hard to understand, I wouldn't like to be there, in this form, but no-one is asking me to be.
I am related to the universe, so this must be, in some way me too. I, along with everything else in the solar system, have spewed, spinning out to here, our planet, changing, slowly to this, our lives.
I went through a wittled down version of this awe, a few months before I first posted.
I'll make it the subject of my next post.
The rest of your post is, to me, so self evidently true, and the approach is so well thought through, that I must applaud you for the good and worthwhile use you make of your mind. This is encouraging to all, imo, who are gathering back the parts of their conscious, re-establishing integrity and ownership of their own world, body and mind. Reawakening the areas of our intellect that had just settled for a half baked, simplistic, naive, clearly human idea.
I am happy to take inspiration from your example.
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 16:17:50
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Thanks LP! That was very nice of you to say.One of the things I truely love to do is to do "guest shots" in High School Physics classes. I am permitted to do this on a fairly regular basis and it is the highlight of my day. Taking a young student and inspiring them to look at physics as something that is "alive," in every sense of that word. Physics applies everywhere, in every hard science. Yet, so many students just don't see how important it is. Astrophysics is special to me because it mates my two favorite things..... Physics (especially nuclear physics) and Astronomy. I get to see, with my own eyes or with instruments that allow me to see in frequencies I normally cannot, nuclear reactions and their results under extremes that cannot be duplicated on our planet. I get to experience the effects of compact objects (like black holes and neutron stars) upon those objects around them. I am permitted to "wonder" and help to explain how they came to be and their very nature. Obviously, I prefer observational science to the purely theoretical, but I don't deny I enjoy the theoretical, as well. As you said, I am awed almost every single day. The discoveries are coming fast and furious, with no signs of slowing. I've had the joy of making a few new ones, myself. One thing I would say to anyone who reads this: It is NEVER too late to start an educational path down a road you have never travelled. Hey, we are all adults, right? You can do what you want in that regard. It doesn't even have to be anything you will make a dime on, either. YOU choose! I never intended Astrophysics to be something upon which I earn a living and it doesn't. That is great for me because I can volunteer my efforts in research that actually interests me vice having to hunt down grants....... The point is, that you could take on astrophysics (for example) and never even "use it" officially, if you so desire. This applies to anything that interests you. Can't afford to go to college? Not a problem, there are great books on almost every subject. You just start at the beginning and move along as fast or as slow as you desire. I would recommend college, of course, just because you then have someone to speak to when you hit a hard spot, but it isn't truely necessary. Learning is cool and it keeps those synaptic gaps well-oiled and fully functional. Moreover, as I mentioned above, it will increase your awe-level beyond anything you could have imagined. As an example, GRB's had confounded astro folks for a very long time. The most powerful events ever recorded and we didn't know ANYTHING about them. Now we do..... we know alot about them and what it is that triggers them. The knowledge of THAT was actually more awesome than the events themselves, which is really saying something, since the events are in the range of 10^56 ergs! In case that doesn't mean much....... that is one heck of alot of energy! Ten of anything with 56 zeros behind it is alot, right? If that isn't awesome, I don't know what is. What makes it awesome is that I know what an erg is, in the first place. I wouldn't expect it to mean much to someone who doesn't. Remember, though, that I said the knowledge of what was causing them blew the events away themselves. Yeah..... it's that cool! You wouldn't believe how many of them are "born" every single day, too!
Modified by NAR at Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 13:34:35
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I'd like to share a period of time, I think, the first three months of this year, before I began to post.
I got broad band, and soon discovered Google Earth. I loved it.
I was like a kid, who woke up one morning in a new home, looked out the window and rushed out to explore the surrounding country.
I looked at all the obvious locations, and soon I was cruising around the globe at all hours, altitude set to provide a convenient viewing angle. After a few weeks I knew the texture and colour and many of the interesting features of almost the whole world, as if it were my new back yard.
I became fascinated by terrain, particularly, where the geological history showed vividly: the striated extrusions, oozing outwards, under the oceans from their mother fissures.
And conversely, the great pile ups, (I've got Google Earth up on another window) running from Karachi/Hyderabad to Rawalpindi, down to Kathmandu, Thimpu and on.
The huge crumple zone of mountains up into The Himalayas and on northwards; with the strange slumped area of descending terrain in Tibet, where, presumably, equivalent bulges below, heated by pressure and friction, have remained molten, and eventually dropped off, descending like lava in a lava lamp, down into the surrounding magma.
And volcanicity. I became fascinated by volcanoes. Spent days, even nights exploring the Sierras, Australia. Everywhere you look you begin to see the footprints of volcanoes.
Concentric, circular ranges of mountains, circle lakes, horshoe shaped (Helenic) forms, some as big as Australia abound. In North and South America there has clearly been ongoing activity for a very long time, the sites do not migrate as in Haawai. It is apparent just by playing detective, you can change the angle, exaggerate the elevation, and start to read the surface like an open book.
At centres of these concentric patterns, almost invariably, we see evidence of plugs of harder rock formed over long periods, slowly cooling under pressure; in the blow holes of ancient volcanoes, long gone to dust. Sometimes we see a dark, almost bottomless lake. Somewhere in China there is a huge vent, stained by gases, and polished by them, without a protruding lavic mass.
We can see the same push patterns and crumple effects we saw in the Himalayas, but here also, glorious displays of volcanoes upon volcanoes. New ones form in the residual patterns left by old ones, sitting within the circles of even larger volcanoes. Themselves growing within the concentricies: the sides: of once continentally proportioned volcanoes. It is clear that the volcanoes of our time are nothing in size compared to the colossal volcanicity which shaped our land masses.
In the Central Deserts of Australia, these concentricities can be still be traced to embrace a majority of the total land mass. it is advantageous to use high elevation exaggeration and experiment with different angles and directions in order to trace the form, when the surface colour is the same. All over the world there are stunning concentricities of greens, blues, reds, purples, jet black.....and more.
In California and the Andes, we see a chemistry laboratory. Rocks of all colours are laid concentrically one upon the other. Pushed by the new ocean bed forming: inexorably spreading the ocean floors outwards. One can see, by the lengths of the striations, how long a time we are looking at.
Forced under the continental shelf along the west coast of North and South Americas, we can see how this energy from the ocean fissures has been absorbed.
Gathering salts and fossil skeletons, the ocean floor feeds the new mix, back under the shelf, down towards the molten magma, heated by pressure and friction, and then bursts upwards with its ever richening mixture of water and chemicals from the ocean, with furious steam driven power.
Subjected to all combinations of temperature and pressure, varieties of new mineral combinations emerge. We can read it just from looking at the surface, we no longer have to take the geologist's word for it.
There are perfect circle lakes (even a perfect figure of eight) up near Hudson Bay, an incredible, blue and purple coloured concentric circle formation in West Africa (Guelb er Richat), bizarre and amazing lava formations in the Sierras.
I experienced, many weeks of a sort of holy awe. I collected dozens of shots of interesting places, I realised I was looking at the evidence of exciting, thrilling, activity all taking place long before life began, or even had been considered as a possibility, by anyone. That I get a thrill from it is a bonus. Am I going to spoil it all by acting like a spoiled brat and say "And you did it all for me, cos you knew I'd be coming along one day and I'd really get a kick out of it, didn't you?" That would be asking too much.
I enjoyed it as if that once had been me! I didn't mind that I wasn't there with a fleshly body watching, I would have been fried to a crisp or asphyxiated by sulphur dioxide within seconds, anyway.
No, its fine to have been there as the evolving stellar dust, lava, sand, soil, organic matter. I have no complaints, look how it turned out. Today is pretty groovy, after incandescing and heaving and exploding and oozing and wearing away and realising that it feels as if I am waking up into something. Here I am again feeling as if I'm waking up into something.
And have a recognisable form I call myself, and there's others, and some are very clever and have made all this stuff. And all I have to do is sit here and type and move a mouse to look in a mirror, as it were, at my other body, the Earth.
The vain imaginings of this little pattern of ants over the surface, has absolutely no bearing upon the reality, around us, which we are. It's fantastic, and if you can come along and see it and grasp how fantastic it is, well, that's even more fantastic, and if you can share that with other fantastic living, walking, seeing, thinking opportunities to see another view, well that's even more fantastic than ever.
Once you see something in the sense of know it, by all available reliable evidence, you don't have to meditate upon it, to keep it real. Truth: real factual evidential truth; stays with us; for all I know, for ever. It changes our perspective, you can't go back, when an old perspective was the wrong one, you can't screw up your eyes, haze over and try to envisage the unreal perspective that was no more than an optical illusion, a trick of the light. The true perspective establishes itself permanently by itself, no props, no mantras. It rearranges our total orientation overnight.
Lp
Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 22, 2006, 13:27:57
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Well you shouldn't blush NAR. You're such a good person even when you get tense and capitalize your emphasized words too much. What a terrific post, NAR. Brought a mist to my eyes and also encouraged me because I never got a college education. I'm too afraid of failing, that's the major reason and goes far back in time. If he ever thinks of himself as being honored by anyone else's presence but his own, Prem Rawat would be able to count you as a great friend and teacher. Yes, you, NAR and not Rawat. But, he loses out because he's such a snooty narcissist. A real snob. Anyway, I wanted to tell you that your encouragement and photos are much appreciated. I passed it on to someone I love a lot because they need encouragement today. Cynth
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Jun 22, 2006, 14:39:53
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Cynthia, thanks!One thing, don't let fear of failure stop you from attending any course you wish to attend. There are two things in your favor: (1) You are an adult. Which means, to the average admissions office, that you mean business and intend to pass. How can they be sure? Because it is YOU who are paying, not mommy or daddy. Adults don't go to college unless they really mean to learn something. "Partying" isn't even in an adult's vocabulary when it would interfere with study, class attendance or anything else of importance. In other words, adults have their priorities set in stone, for the most part. (2) The admissions offices and Professors know from experience that the adults in a class are always amongst the highest scoring students (if not THE highest scoring). Number 1, above, has alot to do with that If you think you might need some refresher courses to get yourself back up to speed in an area of interest, then do it. Again, colleges make some decent provisions for "adults." You know where you might be weak and you know where your strengths are. If you ask to take an advanced course, just because you want to do it, and know that you have the requisite knowledge to complete it successfully, the professors will normally just shoe you right in. They might ask you a question or two to size you up, but again...... adults don't make a habit out of asking to spend money on something they cannot possible complete..... goes with being an adult. Professors know this. I took many courses "out of order" due to my transfers, etc, in the military. If I had a chance to take a special course with a particular professor, due to my physical proximity, I just asked. Many times I didn't have the "prereqs" out of the way, but was allowed to attend anyway. If you looked at my numerous (understatement) transcripts, you would have a hard time figuring them out. They key was..... I am/was an adult. It is never too late and don't take "no" for an answer. Lubricating our synpatic pathways by using them is as important, in my opinion, as any trip to the health club for your physique. To reiterate: Don't let "fear of failure" stop you...... You will NOT fail! If you have an interest in a subject, that alone will prevent failure. Why? Well, because your "interest" will cause you to do whatever it takes to learn the subject, right? Kids don't get this....... adults do!
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Sent an email sooner than I thought I would have the chance. This is fun!
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