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I agree too, but as I find this electronic fiddling around takes up far too much time, I've written a letter to the journalists suggesting they check out EPO if they're interested in further background on doo Ron Ron.
I'll put it in the post on my way to work in the morning.
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A "demonstration" is Ron Popeil showing people how to use the Vegomatic. An "act of terror" is a bomb going off which causes people to be terrified.
Modified by Steve at Sun, Apr 09, 2006, 22:19:23
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they were demos then I wonder what real terrorism will be like. What a stupid annoying prick that Geaves guy is. Bad enough when he's acting as the " intellectual" apologist for his cult master, now he's applying his stupid " clever " brain to this shit. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
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There is really a lot to criticize about Ron's comments, especially the ironic aspect that his very attempt at de-demonization can only make the situation worse, that is if anyone actually takes him seriously, but I guess that is all obvious.
But one thing that strikes me about it is the way he seems focussed on the idea that the term terrorism has become a throwaway word of derogation and lacks meaning. At least that is how I understand his point. This reminds me of similar charges leveled in some circles against modern use and abuse of the term cult.
I'm thinking that the one situation has provoked in him the same kind of knee-jerk thinking in the second situation. It doesn't speak much for his analytical abilities, but it might explain how he got there.
It certainly misses the mark though as you point out.
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I think you've got it in one. That's more than likely the underlying dynamic. That and maybe his basic attention grabbing " Look at me, I'm not just clever I'm controversial too"
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Mr Ron is a classic case of "decide where you want to go and then apply your thinking to get you there". I've read all his published work on Maharaji, and he either imagines I'm stupid or just simply didn't think my comments were pertinent enough to dismiss or engage with. I guess he was busy. I dont really care any more what academics say anyway. I've given up on them and their methodology. The libraries are stuffed with their books and they change nothing. In fact the idea seems to be to cram as much wisdom on shelves in order to keep it out of circulation where it might actually do some good. These days I think that what can't be said in a text message aint worth saying! The times they are a changin love Bryn
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As a professional ad guy, I have to say that life inside the soundbite is a grim prospect. I indulge in great effort to create meaningful, when not always profitable, alternatives. Soundbite world is world without meaning.
Like everything else, there are good academics and there are bad academics. You just have to learn how to tell the difference, and it isn't so hard. The idea of being able to speak or write about something from a position of non-superficiality is umm ... neat. And the possibility of being able to study something without the pressure that your results must generate profit for a corporation is umm ... also neat. Fortunately there are still some people willing to spend their time doing that rather than filling their heads with the strategic differences between straight shredders and cross shredders (straight shreddings make great Christmas present filling).
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Very plausible explanation.
Andries, the sycophant
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Below is the basic "thesis" of Ron Geaves in that lying, apologia he wrote about the cult he neglects to disclose he is a member of. See if you can make any sense out of this gibberish: [S]ocial scientists who focus on "cult" and "sect" formation need to take into account the epistemological underpinnings of a religious movement on which its unique worldview is based, as this can be the key to understanding motivaiton. In this regard, ethnography needs to develop an interpretive framework that takes into account emic reality constructions as well as etic understandings that often involve impositions of one worldview onto another. (Geaves 2004a:45) Now that couldn't be clearer, right? I think for Geaves, all is relative, there is no actual truth in the external world. Thus, the murders of so many people in London is just a "demonstration" once you "take into account the emic reality constructions," and the "etic understandings that involve the imposition of one worldview onto another." This same bogus bullshit is probably the rationale Dr. Geaves used for appearing in the lying and distorted "Passages" video that his cult put out, even though he knows it was a revisionist presentation about his cult leader.
Modified by Joe at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 15:20:31
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Combining the words "etic" and "emic" produces "emetic" which is "an agent that induces vomiting". Kabir
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I think for Geaves, all is relative, there is no actual truth in the external world.
Yes. I've been trying to make the connection between the 'peace within experience' of GMJ/Rawat in which Geaves still believes, & the acts of extreme violence which he seeks to explain away.
I can't do it.
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I think Dr. Geaves text will now make sense to everyone.
[S]ocialist scientists who focus on "occult" and "insect" formation need to take into account the Episcopalian underworld of a religious pavement on which its unique pay-per-view is based, as this can be the key to understating modern nations. In this Riccardo, Fred and Ethyl need to develop an impetuous spam world that takes into account hermetic reality television as well as heretic under covers that often involve inquisitions of one room with a view onto another.
Modified by aunt bea at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 17:39:10
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Andy and Opie would be so proud of you, not to mention Barney,Thelma Lou, Gomer and Goober. 
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Intellectual impostors, cults, government agencies, advertisers, and spin doctors of all stripes are now expert at using language to obscure meaning and to ultimately victimize people who are looking for Truth, Reality, or merely service or justice. IMO, the crown jewel of postmodernism (a term used by Mike Finch) is the following Systematic Buzz Phrase Projector created by Philip Broughton. Whenever you want to obscure facts, just think of any three digit number then select the corresponding buzzword from each column. For example, 587 produces “responsive third-generation projection,” a phrase that can be dropped into almost any paper or article with that ring of decisive authority. Nobody will have the slightest idea what you are talking about, it's total gibberish, but most people will not have the guts to admit it. Column 1 | Column 2 | Column 3 | | 0. integrated | 0. management | 0. options | | 1. total | 1. organizational | 1. flexibility | | 2. systematized | 2. monitored | 2. capability | | 3. parallel | 3. reciprocal | 3. mobility | | 4. functional | 4. digital | 4. programming | | 5. responsive | 5. logistical | 5. concept | | 6. optional | 6. transitional | 6. time-phase | | 7. synchronized | 7. incremental | 7. projection | | 8. compatible | 8. third-generation | 8. hardware | | 9. balanced | 9. policy | 9. contingency |
Modified by Steve at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 21:43:42
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hey, my company specialises in integrated marketing communication, ha ha ha ha ha.
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...............Many thanks for your integrated, non-organizational, yet parallel responses.
...............Though optional, and, of course monitored, your incrementally synchronized projections and digital logistics function integrally as third generation: time phased; local managements whose options are balanced and compatible with a total flexibility.
.............Capable of responding to any contingency, this hardware mobility allows reciprocally systematized, yet totally integrated response options.
................Though transitional it is no concept nor a reaction to programming but the emergence of a new policy.
..........I rest: relax: rely upon certain belief, that truth will prevail...and reply.
...............Meanwhile, for the moment, much of the time, Truth watches but I am hearing many voices whose combined response is true, fair, balanced, parallel, integrated, and above all, Free.. as Truth, above all things, longs to Be...!
Modified by LP at Tue, Apr 11, 2006, 07:23:04
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Parallel reciprocal time-phase: If that doesn't twist your brain, you are a mental pretzel!
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In an exclusive interview Professor Ron Geaves of the world renowned Chester University Guru Apologetics Institute reveals that two days ago he found a 101 year old mullah in an Islamic ashram dedicated to Shri Shri Srhiest of Shris Shri Swarupanand Ji who revealed that the recent London underground bombings were demonistrations not terrorism and that His Royal Highest, Shri Shri Second Srhiest of Shris Shri Hans Ji Maharaj was indeed the favourite of Swarups and was cheated out of the Satguruship all those years ago.
The mullah taught Ron all sorts of secrets including how it was possible that Prem Rawat never claimed to be the Guru Maharaji and Perfect Master even though he never denied it when called it to his face thousands of times but that paradox will remain unanswered as the 101 year old mullah died yesterday apparently of an overdose of bliss from meeting Ron. The English Press has realised they were wrong about the pudgy Boy Guru and have apologised to El Ron and Guru Maharaj Ji and propagation in Ealing and outside Sainsburies all over England is even wilder than it was in 1971.
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So, the perfesser claims the bombers weren't terrorists, but that ex-premies are a "hate-group"?Nurse, the screens ... , , , ,
Related link: Sunday Telegraph article that Jim quoted
Modified by cq at Sun, Apr 09, 2006, 16:42:58
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So, the perfesser claims the bombers weren't terrorists, but that ex-premies are a "hate-group"?
Exactly.
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It's the menality of a cult apologist's mind. "I'm talking about the mirror of life. The true mirror. Have we ever looked at ourselves in that? No. We never have. And when we will, someday, by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace, we will find that we are no more than just a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, very, very tiny speck of dust. Nothing." Prem Rawat, London, March 1978 Mirror time for Ron Geaves.
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The most mirror-gazing people of all time. We KNOW how tiny we are, already...... so we must be the most humble people, too. Everytime he talks about stuff like that, it just amazes me that we all rattled the marbles in our collective heads.... up and down! I mean, you read it and all you want to say is, "so, M, what's your point?" "Duhhhhh" comes to mind, as well. Has anyone ever mentioned to him that looking at yourself in a mirror doesn't really give you a size estimate? Looking OUT THERE is the thing that gives you a relative size estimate.... Sheesh!
Modified by NAR at Tue, Apr 11, 2006, 13:18:27
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NAR........you just reminded me of the exact moment I stopped listening to m for ever... He was in about the 19th minute of the story I had heard several hundred times (it seems) before....
........simply put, the one where he is God because he's got a quarter: and we're all stupid because we have left a trail of smashed chocolate vending machines everywhere we've been; and still have never tasted chocolate....
........the person beside me said something that meant..... this is better than anything else anywhere... and in the spur of the moment, loud enough for several rows to hear, I said something like:
......."No it isn't actually, nowhere near!" from that moment I have never heard a word of Truth in anything m has ever said. I think that is because there isn't one. In a single second the spell was broken. I was free!
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I like stories like that one! A sudden moment of lucid perception. That isn't how I ended my association, unfortunately. Mine was much more gradual. Quarters and chocolates..... what the heck was he talking about? LOL! Why is it that he uses (and always did use) examples of things we could care less about at the time. Rollex watches, Mercedes-Benz's, money, airplanes, sailboats.... yeah, all us poor premies could sure relate to those parables.... Actually, looking back, it shouldn't surprise me. He was a relatively poor Indian kid with an "American Dream" fetish. The difference being that he could turn his misconceptions about the average american' wealth (or any other westerner, for that matter) into reality by simply saying the things we wanted to hear. Then, in his typically one-sided view of the western world, he tries to use the examples of "average western wealth" in his stupid stories....... Kind of like any new immigrant..... eyes all agog at the vending machines that seem to have infinite chocolate....... The cars everywhere, the nice homes...... yadda, yadda, yadda.
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....and if we weren't that stereotypical western tourist cat with all the dosh, p'r'aps we could be taught to go off and find some westerners who were loaded and hand them to him on a plate like John the Baptist's head......
lumpy
Modified by LP at Tue, Apr 11, 2006, 16:59:36
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it was all over in a second: it has taken decades, still going away now, in other areas of the human psyche, ...more quickly, as it happens; lately, ....
.....it was just at that moment that, once and for all, I stopped trawling his words for any significant meaning; or, put another way: gave up the expectation that I might ever find any.
Modified by LP at Wed, Apr 12, 2006, 09:57:15
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I understood what you meant. Dealing with all the fall-out from that simple realization, that occurred in a flash, takes time. Letting go takes a long time...... getting over the feeling of being cheated and abused takes a long time.... But, at the very least, your realization and deiciosn to cut thte cord was fast. Good onya!
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Nar, nice to know you're there..
......Hardest for me, I think was the inevitable change of attitude that I developed toward all my old premie friends, including family. . Hard was the realization that we could only cross this line alone.
......In a way for me (though this too black and white) I could only really have a real friendship, even tolerate some of them, if I were to meet them on the other side of the line.
latepage
Modified by LP at Wed, Apr 12, 2006, 13:28:48
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For those who want to catch up on some backgroud of Prof. Geaves, and the Lord of the Universe, his guru and Lord, here's a link to EPO.
Related link: Letter to Ron Geaves
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When a high-profile Rawat apologist 'outs' himself as a complete idiot, it makes things easier for those who have been saying just that for years. If you Google 'Geaves' and 'terrorism' this looks like a pretty big story. I can't imagine EV are too pleased about it.
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and hopefully no one will take him seriously enough that he can cause any real harm to anything outside of his own career and his Rawat apologism with his dumb ideas. However, if that is not the case, and especially if some special interest groups rally around him, that will be small consolation.
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Though rg appears superficially unique, he is actually stereotypical of prs followers, there are certain common areas of insensitivity and obsession, certain common traits of character, this, upon seeing through the veil of outward persona, does offer us a few consolations:
Knock on effect of reflections in the pr. community that yet remains: hidden common characteristics brought to light:..... possible blissful awakenings in "practising" disciples when those traits are found to lurk in their own self:.... more transparency dawning upon existing followers and hangers on, including finger nail cliff hngrs.... (cliff jumping, paragliding instructors keep a spare seat and 'chute and a watchful third eye):..... revised public view of m cult:...... corrected in right direction:....... others:.....
quote:...... Li'l Richard: ...'It gives me great recompense:......'
faithfully yours
lil pearce
ps. although his particular subject is quite separate from our own; and a less relevant detour in the pr cult history, as a whole:
Modified by LP at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 07:01:19
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Ironically some CESNUR affiliated scholars make the same observations as ex-premies, though not always voiced as criticisms. E.g. Kranenborg and Melton. I prefer to cite CESNUR's "cult apologists" leveling criticisms, because they can not so easily be dismissed as biased as counter-cultists or anti-cultists. I fully agree with Melton that most countercultists (esp. in the past and esp. in the USA, not so much here) are very biased and sometimes willingly ignorant about non-Christian faiths. Andries
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The guys in the planes that hit the towers were really just intending to buzz them, but accidentally went off-course. There was no terror intended...... nah, just a harmful mistake!This is PC bull gone wild. Ron should be ashamed of himself. What a crock of crap..... it even insults academia. I hope his colleagues give him a dose of REALITY!
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In a footnote to this new piece of scholarly bullshit, Geaves flat out lies when he says: In November 1973, Divine Light Mission had booked the Houston Astrodome, a large sports stadium with a capacity of 90,000. The event had taken on millenial expectations in the U.S. with devotees announcing and advertising Maharaji's appearance at the stadium as a second-coming, complete with angelic and alien visitors. Only 20,000 attended the event and Maharaji did not appear to have any knowledge of his American followers' expectations. He spoke as he usually does at such gatherings with no hint of messianic promises.
But look at Rawat's letter to premies about Millenium where he himself calls it "the most Holy and significant event in human history". And how about that little kicker at the end about this being a festival for the "whole world and maybe the whole universe"? What planet is Geaves on? Those "scholarly" journals he writes for don't have letters columns but this is surely worthy of mention in Geaves' Wikipedia article. What a liar! A LETTER FROM GURU MAHARAJ JI Bonn, Germany September 31, 1973 Dear premies, First of all, I would like to tell you about something of great importance to all of us. Because we have realized this beautiful Knowledge which is of great bliss to us all, it is our duty to propagate it to the human race. For it is something they really need. In the world there is suffering, hatred and dissatisfaction. That fact does not need proof. It is understood by all that the world is passing through a great moment. No one has satisfaction of mind nor can they find the solution to this. The world is looking for the Perfect Master to come and reveal the Perfect Knowledge of God. There is a supreme energy constantly vibrating in everything making it survive and all the Perfect Masters coem to reveal this Knowledge to people. We can attain all materialistic things and still not have peace, for peace lies inside not outside in materialism. As you all know Millenium '73 is being prepared for now. This festival has been organized by Divine Light Mission each year since 1967, in the memory of the late Satgurudev Shri Hans Ji Maharaji on His birthday. This year the most Holy and significant event in human history will take place in America. I think that Millenium '73 is a point where we can really get together and enjoy the bliss bliss with all of our borthers and sisters who are premies; and also tell the world that we have received and realized the permanent service of Truth, Consciousness and Bliss which all the world is looking for in one way or manner. To do this I really need your help. I really need the help of all the premies in all respects; physically, financially and all other ways to make Millenium '73 come off. This is a festival not for you or me. It is for the whole world and maybe the whole universe. I hereby invite you to this Divine Festival of Peace, Millenium '73 and request all premies to help me financially, physically and spiritually to make the program manifest for all seekers of Truth. Isn't it about time you all get together and help me bring peace to this Earth? Blessings to you all, [Sant Ji Maharaj]
Modified by Jim at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 13:12:09
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No one could say we didn't try..
Modified by LP at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 13:47:03
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Geaves has written a couple of articles about Prem Rawat, his guru, for various scholarly journals without publically disclosing in those pieces that he is a follower of Rawat (a/k/a Maharaji). Critics of Geaves allege that these works are dissembling, revisionist propaganda and far too biased and inaccurate for proper scholarship. For instance, in a 2006 article, Geaves commented on the "Millenium" festival Rawat held in Houston in 1973, noting that "The event had taken on millenial expectations in the U.S. with devotees announcing and advertising Maharaji's appearance at the stadium as a second-coming, complete with angelic and alien visitors. Only 20,000 attended the event and Maharaji did not appear to have any knowledge of his American followers' expectations. He spoke as he usually does at such gatherings with no hint of messianic promises." However, in a letter that Rawat himself wrote inviting followers to the festival, he called it "the most Holy and significant event in human history". And later, "This is a festival not for you or me. It is for the whole world and maybe the whole universe."
Related link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Geaves
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Did Maharaji actually write that letter on September 31st? I guess he was in that eternal place, outside of time. Kabir
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or the September-stepper? C'mon, get a grip
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May be somebody can write an e-mail to Geaves asking him on what evidence he made that statement. And how he can reconcile the letter from Rawat with what he wrote. The contradiction is so big that it is almost funny, but of course, I may have overlooked something. Andries
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Andries, I step out for lunch and lo and behold, some Rawat cult members vandalized my edit. I've put it back but this could go on forever. Any ideas?
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I guess you just have to wear them out. I'm on board now, so I'll take turns if you like... In chess, at least you can only repeat the same moves three times and they call it a draw. Wiki will just run and run. (Arse-dribble, mostly) I reckon right now, EV, Geaves, and the more gurunoid Wiki eds must be currently on hyper-alert, the speed these things get changed. It's a wonder they have any time left for achieving blissful union with the inner Maharaji.
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Nige, The hardest part is keeping one's cool in the face of such wilfull idiocy. For instance, now Jossi's trying to use Tom Gubler's affidavit against ex-premies without allowing mention of the fact that Gubler later testified under oath that he neither wrote it himself nor agreed with its substance and was, in fact, pressured to sign it by Rawat's lawyer who threatened various criminal and other consequences if he did not. But that's on the Prem Rawat article. The Geaves one just has us fighting over my latest edit. Please, by all means, jump in. It's toxic!
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It seems this could be the same or an updated version of a Paper presented at the RENNER conference: New Religions and Globalization:
Theoretical and Methodological Perspectives
in Aarhus, Denmark,
September 23-26, 2002
Abstract
The paper will explore the tension that exists between the core
teachings of Maharaji and the processes of institutionalisation that undermine
the message of a living sant teacher. In focusing on this tension, the paper
will go on to look in detail at the competing external and internal forces and
pressures brought to bear on this struggle, such as globalisation, tradition,
charisma and innovation. The paper will conclude by arguing that globalisation
as a factor in interpreting Maharaji’s universalism needs to be understood in
the context of understanding sant teachings that have been historically
iconoclastic and universalist.
Modified by Ocker at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 16:19:31
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Behind all the academic veneer I suspect that Geaves fancies himself a bridge between Islam and Maharajism. He is fully aware that Rawat has made virtually zero inroads in Mohammedan countries. Maybe Ron thought that his comments would help ingratiate himself to the muslim communities in GB and help subtly pave the way for the living Allah Akbar. Afterall, Rawat has been quietly doing his part by living like a rich oil sheikh.
Modified by Dr.wow at Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 22:22:39
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