Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco
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Posted by:
Marianne ®

03/29/2006, 23:07:16
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How bizarre that Jossi Fresco and a few others on wikipedia have transformed free speech criticism of Prem Rawat/Maharaji into hate speech! Jossi Fresco's writings on wikipedia should not be a surprise though. He is a cult apologist.

The wikipedia Rawat apologists, like Jossi, are invested in protecting their personal views about Rawat. Anyone who dares offer a differing opinion, no matter how close to Rawat nor how long their involvement, is a proponent of hate speech. This position demonstrates just how threatened these folks are by those willing to speak honestly about their involvement with Rawat, the cult, and people such as Jossi. Anyone who dares to publicly disagree must be a hatemonger. There is no other possible description for a public dissenter.

The need to demonize dissent should be a source of concern to openminded people.

Marianne







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Re: Slight disagreement re Jossi Fresco et al
Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco -- Marianne Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Ocker ®

03/30/2006, 00:47:00
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I think it's a little different. A person like Jossi appears to be a completely 100% true believer and his work appears to be protecting Rawat and not protecting his views about Rawat. At least he is doing what he thinks is protecting Rawat but Rawat cultists and Rawat himself have always been very strange about "security". How many premies have spent how many nights skulking around in the dark waiting for the attack upon Rawat that has never come. Jossi (and others) do not feel threatened, they feel their Master is threatened. Now Jossi is obviously a very, very strange person and even a pretty unusual true believer so I certainly don't think this paragraph covers the whole spectrum of his weirdness.

I know premies who know I'm not  a hate monger even though I've criticised Rawatism to them for decades, albeit in a reasonably polite manner.






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Re: Slight disagreement re Jossi Fresco et al
Re: Re: Slight disagreement re Jossi Fresco et al -- Ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nik ®

03/30/2006, 03:33:36
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>Now Jossi is obviously a very, very strange person and even a pretty unusual true believer so I certainly don't think this paragraph covers the whole spectrum of his weirdness.<

Figuring out someone's motivation from what they do on the Internet is near impossible. I know I keep saying this but ...  there is a very simple explanation for what Jossi Fresco is doing with Wikipedia - and it does not require him to be anything other than a media professional.

Wikipedia offers an opportunity for Jossi/Rawat to achieve maximal search engine domination at near zero cost. All it takes is Jossi's time to ensure that the various articles are 'on message' and kept bumped in the search engine rankings. The rankings are artificially high because anything on Wikipedia gets a high register, plus all the affiliated sites and alternate language versions have the effect of providing a 'wash' across many pages of search returns.

Jossi may or may not be "very strange" but his activities on Wikipedia look to me to be simply 'taking care of business'. Of course what he's doing is anti free speech but since when has making money been known as an entirely democratising process. Jossi (IMO) is just pursuing a basic 'message domination' strategy to protect the Rawat brand - it's what every market sensitive business does every day.

Nik







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I agree with Marianne here
Re: Re: Slight disagreement re Jossi Fresco et al -- Ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nigel ®

03/30/2006, 03:57:04
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>I think it's a little different. A person like Jossi appears to be a completely 100% true believer and his work appears to be protecting Rawat and not protecting his views about Rawat.

I don’t there is really a distinction, here, Ocker. Jossi’s 100% belief requires him to acknowledge absolutely no criticism of Rawat. He’s like Peter with his finger in the dyke: one crack and M’s edifice of infallibility comes crashing down. Notice how past contradictions and apparently poor judgement on the part of ex-DLM people (Mike F., Mishler, Dettmers) is encouraged within his ‘NPOV’, and even criticism of past actions of active premies is tolerated. (Such as getting too hung-up on the Indian devotional trip etc.)

That’s almost the defining hallmark of any cult –that one’s leader has never shown anything less than perfect judgement. The Master never has an ‘off-day’ when delivering an address; his thoughts are never less than totally inspiring; even his clumsy poetry is flawless (though it looks like arse-dribble to the rest of the world).

Present Jossi with evidence of broken promises or inconsistencies, and he’ll be ready with an ‘Ah, yes but…’ and the blame is deflected elsewhere.

I guess it’s possible – as you suggest - that he may be acting like a political spin-doctor and just doing whatever it takes to protect the leader’s reputation. But even that can become a form of self-conditioning where you use whatever evasions and revisions come to hand to convince yourself as much as convince others. I see no evidence that Jossi has his own ‘views about Rawat’ other than those handed down from on high.

 

 

 

 

 






Modified by Nigel at Thu, Mar 30, 2006, 03:58:38

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Totally agree Marianne. Well put.
Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco -- Marianne Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Stardust ®

03/30/2006, 03:30:37
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Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco
Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco -- Marianne Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

03/30/2006, 06:00:11
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Hi Marianne,

The need to demonize dissent should be a source of concern to openminded people. 

It's disturbing to me that Jossi is now on a campaign to amend the Wiki "No Personal Attack" rules to prohibit editors/writers from discussing the articles, subject matter, and other editors on wiki, anywhere else on the internet, including this forum.  Jossi wants to prohibit me and others from open discussion here.  

He got particularly incensed when I pointed out that he was breaking a wiki-rule, while telling me about the "No personal attack" rule that he thought I was breaking (which doesn't exist--that's why he's going to write one).  It's very bizarre.







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You da "person," Marianne (nt)
Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco -- Marianne Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
NAR ®

03/30/2006, 11:58:48
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excellent Marianne
Re: Intolerance, hate groups, wikipedia and Jossi Fresco -- Marianne Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Susan ®

03/31/2006, 14:43:45
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