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Jim, can I make a request that you go easy on Julie? She might have started posting here for a number of reasons, but I don't think, in her own unsophisticated way, she's trying to hurt anyone. If anything she's the one that's hurting, especially after the recent loss of a close family member, and, perhaps lacking any kind of realistic support from the premie community to explain the mysteries of the reality of death, that might explain her presence here more than anything else. Let's face it, Rawat has never really been much of a help in the difficult things in life. They were all swept under the carpet, and supposedly forgotten about, just as long as he was the focus of worship.Perhaps Julie's just trying to say hello in the only way she knows how - by satsanging us. Ok, it's inappropriate, but I don't think it's insincere. I really think she's looking for guidance, even though she's the one apparently trying to dish it out at the moment. If she's the person I think she might be, she was converted to the worship of the Maha when she was very young, and her faith in him could be as strong as - if not stronger than - any priest's faith in their own Lord. The Irish don't take faith lightly, you know! 
Modified by cq at Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 12:46:24
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that you're bending over backwards to paint Julie in such a wholesome light? Understandable, if that's the case. Yet I wonder what on earth she is doing here when her husband has just died. I wouldn't be here if that had just happened to me ( and I am an ex!). No way would I be engaging in an argument about who did and didn't go to the funeral, and why. I don't see how any of us can actually know where she is coming from. So, as far as I see, we are all entitled to speak to her in whatever way we want.
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... and I think most of those who are pissed off at her insensitivity have had a chance to tell her so. Jim, it seemed to me, had had a bite, and was coming in for the kill ...I don't know if you saw the BBC documentary about cults a year or two ago, but it included a scene outside the Palace of Peace (I think) in which a young Irish girl, accompanied by her mother, declared about Guru Maharaj Ji "he is my Lord - He is the Lord of the Universe" Such simplistic but total devotion (I'd say brainwashing, but that's a bit cruel) was almost shocking to hear and see. But here was this young girl for all the world to see declaring her utter trust in her Lord. I might be wrong, but I think she might be the Julie who's posting here now. And I'd hate to be the one to force her to face the truth about her "Lord". Quite honestly, I'd don't think she could cope with the change. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Modified by cq at Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 15:15:18
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Blimey. See what you mean (didn't see the documentary, though). I look after old Irish nuns. Nothing - I mean nothing - would make the smallest dint in their faith. But, if Julie is that commited/deluded nothing Jim or anyone else could say will have her facing the truth. OTOH, if she has a bit of doubt, then Jim's questioning might just do the trick. Sorry if it might sound unkind, but, to Julie, if you can't stand the heat - get outa the kitchen.
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hello Cq, you are wrong, that wasnt me at the palace of peace with my Mother, mistaken identy! apart from that though i am a devotee of Maharajis Knowledge, it works for me i practise it and have done for 33yrs personal choice. when i was in college i had to study otherwise i wouldnt have passed my exams, i speak about the knowledge from my own personal experience and not anyone elses! dont worry cq u wont be forcing me to do anything and i wont be forcing you to do anything either! I practise because i want, and u dont because u dont want, and thats fair enough as far as im concerned! im a very friendly person eq into love peace and harmony. take care and best wishes. love Julie
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That wasn't you in the documentary? My mistake then, and I apologise. Any idea who that was then? (I take it you're saying you have seen the documentary?).Anyway, I hope you're clear about why you're posting here, even if most of your readers don't seem to know. I'd like to ask you a straight, simple, (but not silly), question, Julie: Why are you posing here? I only ask because I'm not sure why either! (edit, later) PS - that must have been a Freudian slip in my last question! I meant to say "posting"
Modified by cq at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 12:29:32
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Hi CQ thank you. i didnt see the documentary but i still may know the young girl and her Mum whom you referred too. i am clear why im posting here, even if my readers dont understand why yet, im posting here because im interested in Maharaji and the work he does, and what he has done for me! I have seen several people upset, and justefiabily so, and i dont take sides, i just use my common sence. people are reacting to me on the forum at the moment as they dont realise how much i dont like injustices. i understand why a lot of people are upset and im not blaming them for that as they have plenty of reason, with the behaviour of some people. talk to u again hopefully, im off out for a cycle. love Julie x
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Modified by cq at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 13:45:41
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Hello again, Julie.You say: "people are reacting to me on the forum at the moment as they dont realise how much i dont like injustices. Well, I can understand how you might think that Julie. I used to think anyone who criticised Maharaji was being unjust/unfair too. But honestly, you have to accept this - that one of the main reasons people have been leaving Rawat/Maharaj is because they don't like injustice any more than you do. And the injustice/unfairness has been coming from Rawat/Maharaji himself. You might be wondering why I would say such a thing. Well, it's not easy for many premies to understand - because a big part of being a premie means "leave no room for doubt in your mind" . That was one of the 5 commandments we were taught to believe - by Maharaj/Rawat. You say you were housemother at the Dublin ashram, so I'm sure you remember that. May I ask - do you think Maharaj/Rawat still wants you to hold that belief he taught you? I ask that question simply because the same person who taught you to believe that he was your Lord, divine, Perfect Master, Lord of the Universe, is now saying that he never claimed such things. Can you begin to feel the injustice of that? And yet you still cling to the teaching he has now denied? Like you, I once believed that he was Lord incarnate, and I gave everything I owned to the Mission, and spent the next three years of my life "serving" him - like a slave. I only received food and lodging in exchange for working full-time for him. I even permanently injured my back lifting pianos down spiral staircases (with me at the top - hence the back injury) all for the purpose of propagating teachings that he now denies he ever made! Can you get a feel for the injustice I feel? Apparently my - OUR - service was a mistake - according to him. Today, he even says that the "Knowledge" has nothing to do with spirituality or religion. In fact he doesn't even allow the word "meditation" to be used to describe the techniques we were taught. Julie, if you really do understand how "justifiably upset" (your description) most of us who post here are, perhaps you might think twice about the supposed wisdom of trying to "satsang us" back to the "lotus feet". Those feet are human like yours and mine. The difference is that the one who pretended that he was once divine - now denies he ever said such things. And how "just" is that? Julie, sweetheart, don't take this the wrong way, but please
WAKE UP!
Modified by cq at Wed, Mar 15, 2006, 13:32:38
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Maybe you could post a recent photograph along with your star sign and various planetary aspects which you consider to be of particular significance to your make-up. Your style of writing if very irritating, as it looks like knitting spread over acres of screen - like some interminable Arran jumper.
And your style of fielding back peoples' statements with endless trite comments about feeling grand an all n'll gives the impression of one of those childhood arguments where the other person just keeps saying prove it, or does/doesn't, or something else which is completely dense. And that is the point, I guess - to depict yourself as a child of nature or knowledge, where just no arguments make any sense to you, or are completely redundant, because being in that place just makes like everything, everything else, just inconsequential.
(Not other people, I don't mean that, but anything to do with questioning of any type of nature). The thing which is completely suss in the picture is that it is virtually impossible for anyone of any integrity or intelligence to just sail through the premie scene without experiencing some degree of mental turbulence based upon the state of the org and the brothers and sisters.
And also, more crucially nowadays, questions regarding Maharaji himself, and the history of the last 3 decades.
The buck has finally passed from EV to Prem, and that is the major confrontation for any premie of any openness of mind. However, what I do like about you is your dedication to meditation.
Although now ex-cult, I still practice dilgently, and make some attempt to feel centred, although this to me seems to really be about focusing onto an internal energy, and nothing to do with endless preoccupation with every breath. It seems to me that, leaving aside all the religious and spiritual accretions placed onto the physiological process of gently focusing onto a central energy something synonymous with the physical heart, that this does give me a sense of balance. It tends to calm down my overactive head (which tends towards endless mental loops and past analysis), and seems to allow for the emergence of more balanced, calmer and better reasoned thinking. I think this is nothing from God, but being somewhat more attuned to the subconscious level, where thought is processed in a slow and deliberate fashion, so that when it emerges, it has a sense of depth and finality. I also tend to feel happier. Anyway, take care of yourself. I am very sorry to hear about your husband, am glad you have such good memories of him and your time together, and wish you much strength in coming days. Did you by any chance stay in one of the nuclear bomb shelters in Geneva back in 78? Very best wishes, Anthony
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Hello Anhony, im glad you kinda like me, and i like you too and would have no reason to dislike you in any way! Did i stay in one of the nuclear shelters in Geneva'78 you ask me...I did! sorry you dont like my style of writing, sorry for you I mean Anthony> your style is ok for me, simply because its your style, and your style is your style! Im an easy going person, intelligent and am not going to judge you Anthony according to how you write! you seem to wonder how anyone could sail though without being disrupted by the behaviour of some of the members of ev, well Anthony I have! I have met many people of all generations and all walks of life since i came to Maharaji especially when i went to the big events! I got hassled many times but thankfully was always able to stand up for myself against such ignorant people! They never got the better of me no matter what they tried, and let me assure you they tried, silly boys some of them in old mens bodys now! I dont like injustices and because of that ive had to put up with a lot of harrassment from different people who thought they had an authority over me, which they did'nt! Maharaji himself is a perfect Gentleman and i have always been happy to see and hear him speak. i am also very happy to practise Knowledge.my Son is wanting to use his computer so i'll say cherrio to you for now Anthony. nice to hear from you and thank you for kinda likeing me, sure thats agreat start in relation to posativity! I might even knit you an Aron jumper someday and you can check all the stitches just to make sure i knit it correctly. keep your heart up Anthony. love and best wishes. julie
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Hello Jim, hope u are well today! I do like this forum at least the people on it communicate and thats good. my understanding abouy death is firstly it happens to all of us, just like birth did! i have a life span and a purpose for it while im in my body, someday the breath will leave my body and i understand the breath to be me.My understanding is very simple, it just seemes natural to me. Jim once again ide like to tell u im a peaceful person and dont like any hassel or fuss, im a very easy going person and like the simple things in life. you ask me if Maharaji has ever behaved badly from my experience, and my answer to that question Jim is simply NO. I have met Maharaji many times and always have found him to be a perfect Gentleman. thats my experience. i cant say the same for all the Men i have met at events when i went to see Maharaji, but Maharaji himself is a grand man as far as im concerned. u wonder why i like speaking to people who refer to themselves as ex premies, well Jim why not? I believe everyone has their own reasons for whatever, they feel, and know something must have upset them and im interested! Hope im answering ur questions Jim. im trying honestly. love Julie
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Julie, You'd earlier mentioned some big understanding about death you had but it's apparent now that you didn't actually mean anything by that. It was just talk. As for Maharaji's behaviour, you say that he's always been a perfect gentleman with you (unlike some other men). Would you be interested in hearing from others who've had quite a different experience with him? Imagine this. You go into a bookstore and lo and behold there are not one, but two new biographies of Rawat for sale. One is written by Joan Apter and the other by Mike Finch. The cover of the Apter book makes it clear that it's a very glowing, adoring account while the cover of the Finch book suggests a real expose. I assume you'd read the Apter book without hesitation. But what about Mike's? Would you read it too? Would you be afraid to learn things you'd rather not know? How would you approach this?
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How do you know Mata Ji
didn't practise Knowledge? She was practising Knowledge before Prem was
born and she was initiated directly by Shri Hans himself, the man who
taught Prem everything he knew, that's everything Prem knew, not
everything Shri Hans knew. She continued to practise Knowledge until
her death and served the premies of India tirelessly and selflessly see
http://www.manavdharam.org/.
That's one of the other things you know nothing about. Meanwhile Prem
continues to destroy the environment in this multi million dollar jet
flying around doing programs for less and less premies.
Have you
ever seen Prem sit in meditation for more than 30 seconds? Of course
not. If you had spent any time in his private presence you would have
seen him smoking dope, Marlboros and drinking expensive cognac but not
practising knowledge!
Do you constantly meditate on Holy Name?
Lot's of Indians who received Knowledge from Shri Hans and continued to
follow Mata Ji and Satpal's direction have been constantly meditating
on Holy Name for 50 years by now. DO you think your practise is better
then their's? They think Prem is a naughty boy, not the Messiah.
What was your husband's name? Maybe I can listen to some of his music and be
inspired and start practising meditation and return to the Lotus Feet
of prem Rawat and it would all be because of you and Derek ____?
What is this purpose of your life? Do you understand that breathing is not a quality inserted into your body that will come and then leave but a process that occurs in a living human being and words like "someday the breath will leave my body" are just a metaphor or do you actually believe that breath is created by the Perfect Master and can "leave your body"?
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hi Ocker, i dont know wheather Maharajis Mother practised knowledge or not, i met her a few times in the 70ts and found her to be a nice Lady otherwise i didnt know much about her or any member of Maharajis Family > I met Marolyn Maharajis Wife and children and found them to be nice people also. did i ever see Maharaji meditate for more than a short time, well my friend i have seen him, as a matter of fact he is the greatest example of a practising premie himself. i sure make every effort to practise and remembe the holy name in every breath! Im practising for a very long time now! I dont compare my practise with anyone elses, so my answer to ur question, do i think my practise is better than anyone elses, of cource not! i practise for myself and dont have to conpare myself to anyone else.the purpose of my life is to realise its purpose, enjoy it and help Maharaji to spread peace and love to the hearts of humans. the breath was put in me and will be taken away, just like Dereks, i do believe in a superior power in person. i also believe Budda, Christ Krishna and so on came on the earth in human form in their time to reveal the Knowledge of God to those who wanted, if history is correct apparently they gave some of the Masters of the past a hard time. i was told as a young child that Christ was nailed to a cross for being the Master at the time. Makes one wonder dont u think my friend. best wishes. love Julie
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Hi Julie I have been reading your posts here with a growing fascination and am definitely intrigued about your perspective. Not something I share by the way, but highly interesting nevertheless. However you mention that you have met Mata Ji and Marolyn a few time. I would be very interested in hearing more about your observations of these people. By the way, have you also met Monica? Monica is Prem Rawat's mistress and normal bed partner. If you have, perhaps you could let me know how and when you met her, and your impressions. A close friend of mine knew Monica very well and I understand from him that Monica is a pretty amazing lady. I personally have never met her, just seen her around at various festivals, oops I mean events, doing camera work of some sort. How do you feel about your Guru and teacher having a regular mistress by the way? Thanks
T
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hi there T its me Julie, Mata ji came to Ireland way back in the early 70ts. I was the Dublin Ashram HouseMother and thats where we met> Mata Ji did'nt speak english, but we still chatted, i would say things to her like "Maharaji is a great boy,and things like that, she would respond to me like any Mother would when she feels proud of her Son. A gentle Lady and a lovely warm smile< She passed away at quite a young age, like my Husband who was 54!Marolyn Maharajis Wife, well we've had a few chats here and there over the years> Shes lovely, soft spoken,gentle and madly in Love with Maharaji and Maharaji with her. I met her Mum and Dad too. Iliked them and found Marolyn to be very nice and down to earth, no airs or graces about her! Very Nice.As I say, other than that I dont know anything about their personal life nor their Childrens! I hope they are happy and well!I dont know anything other than that. best wishes Julie x
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You said: "even Maharajis Mum had to practise knowledge if she wanted to know wheather it worked of not."
As the context was the fact that Mata Ji had disowned and disinherited Prem Rawat and publicly stated he was no longer the Perfect Master your statement obviously meant she must have stopped practising to stop worshipping her youngest son.
Julie you are either an extremely repetitive slimy bullshitter or you are an extremely repetitive naive and stupid person who just responds in the same way as a slimy bullshitter. Thank you very much for once again reminding me of the sleaze that lies at the dark heart of premiedom.
I am not your friend. I have standards of decency and truth amongst my friends - not very high ones for that matter - but you do not meet those standards.
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ok Ocker, im glad to hear u have standards of decency and truth amongst ur friends! Thats nice for u that u have friends. do take care of yourself. Best Wishes Julie x
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Why, I know of someone who was just riding a bicycle and someone ran him over. He wasn't claiming to be a master or anything, just riding a bike, and someone in a big car ran into him and killed him. Neville B
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Hi Neville, the same thing happened to one of my cousins when he was only 21! He was only claiming to be a regular 21yr old just riding his bike, thats sad Neville. love Julie x
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The person driving the car that killed the cyclist--that was your lord and master Mr Rawat. It happened in India. Worse, he got someone else to take the blame for the killing. How low is that? Neville B
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Hi Neville, I dont know anything about that, and i dont adhere to gossip! Were you there? Did you witness what happened, or is it hear say like lots of other things ive heard. thats sad when anyone has an accident. take care. love julie.
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Julie, What would it matter if Neville was actually there to see Rawat's cowardice in full bloom like that? We all know that you don't have the capacity to criticize Rawat. You're in a cult, remember? Actually, if you read EPO, you'll see that Mike Dettmers was there and he's willing to tell the whole story and sign his name to it. So what though, huh? LOL!
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hi Jim, a rumour is a rumour, i asked Neville was he there because if he wasnt, then it means its a rumour, or gossip! Seeing is believeing! people are inclined to add their own little bits as gossip spreads dont u know? ive even heard things about myself that are not true, even on this forum from people who dont even know me! Im not here to try to put anyone down, im friendly! ive met enough people who do that, but its not my style. love to you. Julie x
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Suppose I pointed you to a FIRST-HAND EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT of the accident in which Maharaji killed a cyclist. That's not RUMOUR, is it? Or how about first-hand, eyewitness accounts of his drunkenness, including drunken driving? Or first-hand, eyewitness accounts of his adulteries? Or first-hand, eyewitness accounts of his cannabis use? Well, you'd just find some excuse to dismiss it, wouldn't you? Please, tell me if I'm wrong. Or if there is some kind of evidence you will accept, please let me know what it is. Neville B
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hi Jim, a rumour is a rumour, i asked Neville was he there because if he wasnt, then it means its a rumour, or gossip! Seeing is believeing! people are inclined to add their own little bits as gossip spreads dont u know? ive even heard things about myself that are not true, even on this forum from people who dont even know me! Im not here to try to put anyone down, im friendly! ive met enough people who do that, but its not my style. love to you. Julie x Un huh, very interesting. But you already told me that, don't you remember? You already said you didn't trust gossip. That's why I responded as I did. Here, read it again: Julie, What would it matter if Neville was actually there to see Rawat's cowardice in full bloom like that? We all know that you don't have the capacity to criticize Rawat. You're in a cult, remember? Actually, if you read EPO, you'll see that Mike Dettmers was there and he's willing to tell the whole story and sign his name to it. So what though, huh? LOL! See, Julie, we all know that you're stuck here. You know it too. You just aren't honest, that's all. You're like someone who doesn't want to buy something who, for whatever reason, offers bullshit excuses to the salesperson. You: "Oh, I can't buy that, you see, because I only buy black shoes for business. I love them, don't get me wrong, but they're just the wrong colour." Salesperson: "Well, guess what, ma'am! This must be your lucky day because we just now got them in in black." You: "Uh ......." You think it's not more than obvious how stuck you are?
Modified by Jim at Thu, Mar 16, 2006, 15:44:22
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Julie, I can confirm that is true. I reacted the same way as you when I first read about this. I was very shocked. In fact I was incensed and outraged that these lies were being perpertrated on EPO that I contacted a high ranking premie who's been employed by EV (who you know). This person confirmed to me that it was all true. There is nothing on EPO that is false. This premie also justified M's actions, of course. Just as I'm sure you will. But don't say it's gossip - not unless you can prove it. Many premies' moral and ethical threshold reach their limits at this point. That's why Susan's question to you a while back was such a good one - 'is there anything that M could do that you would find unacceptable?' - or words to that effect. I think you should read EPO and find out the sorts of things that have happened that have caused so many premies to have the courage to walk away from knowledge and Maharaji. Here's an excerpt from EPO Date: Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 22:44:17 (GMT)
From: Patrick
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Could you answer these questions please Michael?
Message:
In the early 80’s, following a festival at the ashram outside of New Delhi, India, Maharaji and his motorcade were traveling from the ashram to the airport to board the 707 for America. Maharaji was driving the lead car and I was a passenger in the front seat of the car directly behind his. All of a sudden, I saw a man riding a bicycle pull out in front of Maharaji’s car.
Seconds later the man went flying several yards into the ditch. He died instantly. Randy Prouty, who was traveling as security in Maharaji’s vehicle, frantically ran to the car I was in and instructed all of us to get out of the car and find a place in the other vehicles that were part of the motorcade. Maharaji and the people in his car quickly transferred to the car I was in, and we all sped to the airport.
Sampurnanand stayed behind to deal with the situation which he did by having his houseboy take the wrap. In the investigation that ensued, the houseboy stating that he was the driver of the vehicle who hit the unfortunate cyclist. That explanation, plus a heft cash settlement to the victim’s family, enabled Maharaji to quickly put the incident behind him so that he could get on with the business of bringing peace, love and joy to the rest of humanity. I would like to ask you some questions regarding these allegations of yours, Michael. 1) Did Maharaji speak later to you or anyone else you know about this, if so what did he say? 2) What was his reaction to the death of this cyclist? 4) Do you know what happened to Sampurnanand's 'houseboy' in terms of retribution for his confessed part in this? 5) Was this matter discussed amongst 'Premies around Maharaji' at all? You were there and presumably the subject must have come up. 6) What were Maharaji and those premies involved so afraid would actually happen if Maharaji had confessed that he was driving - that was so worth this risky course of action? I have never been to India and do not have any real idea of the way the law works there. Prior to his leaving the scene of the accident I would have supposed that Maharaji might have been judged merely to have been in a most unfortunate and regrettable accident which wasn't his fault.
He would have clearly had a number of witnesses that would have been prepared to say that it was basically the cyclists' fault. Presumably Maharaji and his cohorts thought that the scandal of his involvement in the accident would have been so damaging that it merited lying to avoid such an outcome. Surely they would have known that lying about it in this manner would constitute an even worse scandal should someone decide to blow the whistle - as you have done? Incidentally, had this incident occurred in England, I think that the law would have certainly held him partly responsible and he would have incurred some sort of punitive measure for driving without due caution, however negligent the actions of the cyclist. I am prepared to accept though that in India things are handled in a different manner. 7) What do you think we can expect Elan Vital's version of events to be, if they ever offer one?
(In other words, what do you predict will be the sort of arguments for Maharaji's defence - that we may hear from him or premies?) 8) If they were to confess that the way it was handled was a mistake, how should they now rectify their mistake in your opinion? 9) Most premies I have spoken with regard this, at face value, as a regrettable mistake. They also feel that to confess as much, still leaves Maharaji's validity as The Master in matters of Knowledge intact. What would be your comment on their opinion that as a Master he can make all these kinds of mistakes and still be trustworthy in matters of the heart? If you would like to read more here's a link :
Related link: Death of a cyclist
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Well, it's the first time I've posted to you directly, though I have posted about you. I'm just curious as to why you are posting here (I know folks have asked you that already). I am, of course, sorry for the loss of your husband. I think it is difficult for people here to talk to you without being mindful of the fact that you are grieving. We exes know what love is too. And we don't want to challenge your beliefs too much when you have just lost your husband. We just have a very different experience of Maharaji than you have.We have first-hand experience of a very different Maharaji than the one you seem to worship. I look after Irish nuns for a living. They are totally dedicated to Jesus, Mary, the Pope and God (in no particular order folks ). I think they are sincere but wrong. I think you are, ditto, sincere but wrong. You won't change anyone's mind on this forum. So why are you here?
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Well, it's the first time I've posted to you directly, though I have posted about you. I'm just curious as to why you are posting here (I know folks have asked you that already). I am, of course, sorry for the loss of your husband. I think it is difficult for people here to talk to you without being mindful of the fact that you are grieving. We exes know what love is too. And we don't want to challenge your beliefs too much when you have just lost your husband. We just have a very different experience of Maharaji than you have.We have first-hand experience of a very different Maharaji than the one you seem to worship. I look after Irish nuns for a living. They are totally dedicated to Jesus, Mary, the Pope and God (in no particular order folks ). I think they are sincere but wrong. I think you are, ditto, sincere but wrong. You won't change anyone's mind on this forum. So why are you here?
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Hi Julie,I'm glad you like this forum, but, as has been pointed out to you already, expect to be challenged here - this place is for ex-premies after all! You said "I believe everyone has their own reasons for whatever they feel, and know something must have upset them and I'm interested! That is so true! And here's one reason why I'm upset. The EV website says that Maharaji is just a motivational speaker, after years of me, and other premies that I know, believing that he's the living Lord today. It also says that in the 70's we sang arti on 'a handful of occasions'. This is just not true. I sang it every morning in the ashram for years. I wondered what you thought about this. Why doesn't the EV website tell the truth? Is he the Lord to you? And do think he's saying that he's just a motivational speaker because people just wouldn't understand this? Or, is he not the Lord after all? This has confused me a lot, and I wondered what you felt about it. I'd really appreciate your perspective on this. Thanks. Stardust.
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Hello Stadust, thank you for ur letter. i am fully aware that the people writing here are upset and annoyed with ev org, and i fully understand that believe me Stardust i really do, u know i could have got annoyed many times with the people running ( or should i say supposed to be running it, Maharajis way) lots of the people dont do it Maharajis way at all and i personally have been a victom myself many times by such ignorant people who place themselves in positions of authority and think they know it all. these are the people whom i would refer to as ex premies and not the people on this forum> I have witnessed so many injustices you wouldnt believe it! Maharaji himself is a good Man and is working very hard to bring peace to the hearts of all humans, its very difficult for innocent people to understand whats going on if they are focused on the badly behaved people who have received knowledge, taken positions of authority, do it their own way and then try to implement their power trip on others, which i can assure u is nothing to do with Maharaji and the experience of knowledge. if u heard my story u just wouldnt believe it, the appaling behaviour of some of the people i have met over the last 33yrs i have been practising knowledge! I would never let anyone put me off! Maharaji has always been loving and kind and most of all his knowledge works.. elan Vital website i dont bother even entering it! I dont like the way they operate at all> I could run the whole thing myself more efficently. when i got knowledge in 1973 and moved into the ashram we did sing Arti every single day, as a matter of fact i still sing it now and again! I sang it recently to one of my Sons! My Family are into Music in a big way so we all sing a lot. stardust i totally understand how confusing all that behaviour is! My advice to u Stardust is believe Maharaji> EV now thats another story altogether. maharaji is the Master and that is my experience, people say all sorts of things about Maharaji, just like people have said untrue things about me> Im open though and like to give people a chance to get to know me properly, if i can be of any assistance to you Stardust i am very happy to do so! Im sorry those people in EV have upset anyone in the name of Maharaji. maharaji is innocent in this and so am I, and so are u as a matter of fact. take care and best wishes. love Julie.
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Julie, You're so lost beyond all common sense it's irritating. Only a child, an idiot, someone without any familiarity at all with the situation or, yes, a cult member who has no ability to criticize her leader, would fail to see that EV is Maharaji!
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hi Jim, im glad ur amused, im neither a child nor an idiot leet me assure you and im sue ur not either, i have a much better understanding to the situation than u could ever imagine! I am not a member of a cult or organisation, i am simply a lover of truth. elan Vital which means The Vital Force is a structure Maharaji choose and as u know volenteers offer their services yo help run things smoothly so people can come see Maharaji and hear what he has to saym but as i have said before some of the volenteers without any proper training made quite a mess of things many times! Maharajis fob is spreading knowledge and the volenteers do the rest. they will get it right sometime, and the sooner the better. elan Vital is not Maharaji Thank God. service is an experience of love, its not what we do its where were at when we do it, and as u know some people are in strange places within themselves at times! nice to talk to u, take Care. love Julie
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....(although your spelling gives the impression that you're extremely uneducated but whatever, eh?) You're also not unfamiliar with the situation. So what does that leave? Oh yeah: cult member! Julie, you are so much a cult member it's not funny. Well, it actually is kind of funny in an almost painful, pathetic kind of way. And what's the proof that you're a cult member? How about this for starters -- you worship your leader (don't deny it!) and you can't accept any evidence of his faults. It's as if they don't exist and you'll blame anyone for anything just to excuse him. That's a very classic sign of being in a cult, Julie. So unless you want to redefine the word, you might as well accept the fact that it describes you to a "t". That's "c" which stands for "See?", "u" which of course means "you", "l" as in "What the 'ell??" and "t" which you've been described to. C.U.L.T. -- "Who's Julie?" "Oh, she's just this woman who's in that Maharaji cult" Yep. To a "t"!
Modified by Jim at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 10:24:22
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hi \Jim dont you worry about my spelling either, at least that would be my suggestion to you and know what i could.nt care less if you spell a word here and there incorrect, its totally of no importance to me! Coming from the land of the saints and scolars we dont pay any attention to that type of noncence< I have a degree so what? im a qualified nurse, so what? im a great dancer, singer artist so what. i have good manners and know how to respect people, or would i prefer to study english? i'll continue in peace and who ever wants to have spelling tests, i recommend they take that competition up with someone whos into a spelling test. im into Maharajis Knowledge, the Knowledge you cant get in College. love and Best Wishes. Julie x
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Julie, If you approach nursing with anything like the sloppy, brain-dead superficiality you to bring to this discussion, you're dangerous. I mean, honestly, do you actually communicate with doctors? Patients? Do you give medication and monitor peoples' charts? How frightening!
Modified by Jim at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 12:26:42
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im a really good nurse Jim, the greatest skill for nursing is careing. i sure do communicate with doctors and all medical staff and of cource the ill, who happen to be the most important. jim i even change dressings, now what would a qualified person like you say to that at tall at tall?im off out for a cycle now as ive just had dinner. talk later perhaps. love and Good Luck. julie x
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wrong again? aw shucks ...But - again - why, Julie, are you posting here?
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Hi cq im not Marolyn ,im Julie! Marolyn is Maharajis Wife ok. love julie x
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Are you sure Marolyn is Maharaji's wife? It's common knowledge that he sleeps with someone called Monica Lewis. Shouldn't he at least have got a divorce from Marolyn before doing that? Neville B
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How are you Neville?In relation to Maharajis personal life I cant tell you much except Maharaji met his Wife Marolyn on a plane! They Married at a later stage, Maharaji being 16 at the time and Marolyn a beautiful young bride at the young age of 24! They have a Family 2 Sons and 2 Daughters! Ive met Maharaji Marolyn and their Family on a few social occasions, and i must say they made a very nice Family indeed! I married at a young age too and have a very nice Family. my Husband passed away 4weeks ago. Marolyns personal relationship is between her and her Husband as was mine, with mine! I have heard so many stories about not only Maharaji but many other people, and Would you Believe, I have even heard stories about myself, stories here and there, that even I never heard before! And if you were to believe every story you hear sure God almighty, u would'nt know wheather u were coming or going! Get my drift Pal! O and by the way my dear friend i dont get anyone confused, they confuse themselves, cause as u must know the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and to know wheather gossip is always right its best to get it from the horses mouth!The Knowledge works though, is that gossip or is it TRUE> Nice to meet you. best wishes Julie
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Are you seriously telling us that our information about Monica Lewis is just a rumour? Because I have to tell you it is a great deal more than that--its 100% fact. Also the details of the affair were kept from Marolyn on Maharaji's orders--again, this is solidly-testified fact. Doesn't sound much like the behaviour of an honourable person, does it? Neville B
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And she hasn't had any direct proof herself, so that's that one sorted then.
Listening to Julie is so like listening to my ex it's scary.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, well at least where prem is concerned, problem solved.
Nothing shall be allowed to blemish her perfect religion.
Uggggh
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Here is a short list of some of the more consistant things that the people who have left Rawat's inner circle have shared: That he is an alchoholic. He drinks to the point of drunkeness frequently and when he is drunk he is verbally abusive to his family and premies. He has driven drunk with his children in the car ( when they were children). That Rawat has had multiple affairs with premie women and used his status to engage in one night stands that left the premie women confused and emotionally distraught. The Monica Lewis story is that this woman has been his mistress for many many years and often travels with him. Rawat once hit a man and killed him while driving and allowed a premie to take the blame and legal responsibility. If you read ex premie org you can draw your own conclusion as to whether he knew about Jagdeo early on. I know I tried to report it in 1977 and 1982. I believe he did know about Jagdeo. Jagdeo molested children all over the world while Maharaj Ji's mahatma. That's not all, but its a start. He's a fraud and its a show. BTW your perception that Marolyn is a lovely person I believe. I have the impression she is a nice person too, but confused and perhaps trapped, as I believe you to be. My best wishes to you Julie, Susan
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Julie, Yes, it's true, some stories about people are false, but some aren't. In this case, the fact is that you don't want to know if any bad stories about Rawat are true, isn't that the case? Yes or no?
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Julie,
As Jim said, EV is a reflection of Maharaji. Their incompetence is Maharaji's incompetence. In 1999, Maharaji ran a series of 'Trainings'. Please read them at the link below. Pretty much all EV staff and volunteers attended these trainings. It is very important that you recognise that EV is the fruit of Maharaji's 35 years in the west. Their website which calls the posters on this forum mentally ill and criminals has Maharaji's full support. The lies on that website (read what they say about Arti) have Maharaji's full support.
How do I know this? Because as Maharaji said on 30th June 1999, he is the leader.
And you, Julie, have a responsibility. If you do not speak out about the bad things EV does, you are guilty of supporting them. EV can only behave so badly because of the silence of the rank and file premies.
I hope you understand this post, that you read the Trainings, that you read the FAQs on EV's website, and if you recognise that something is wrong, that you take responsibility to fix it.
Thank you,
John.
Related link: Maharaji's Trainings
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Hi Julie, thanks for your reply and I can tell that you are sincere. I think that Maharaji is very lucky to have such a steadfast devotee as you! You showed a lot of understanding and empathy in your reply, which I have to say is rare for a premie! But you've got it wrong about the premies messing up the website. It's Maharaji himself who wants to paint a different picture about the 70's and premies are doing what they've been told. I was told this by a premie that works for EV. Thanks for your advice and offer of assistance - I know it's well meant. However, when I read EPO and found out how Maharaji behaves in his personal life - the drinking and womanising, child abuse cover up authorised by Maharaji etc. - well to me that's not the way a Perfect Master behaves. He's lied frequently, and even got someone to take the blame for him when he accidentally killed a cyclist. Well that was too much for me! The Maharaji I thought he was wouldn't do something like that. So that's when I left and became an ex and reading here has been very helpful for me. From what you say I expect you will always be a premie. Although I think you're deluding yourself! However, there may be there's worse things you could delude yourself with!! I have a friend who is a devout Christian and I think he is deluding himself as well. I think it's part of the same pot of projecting love and devotion onto another human being and idolising them. But that's your choice and you seem to be happy with doing this. Take care Stardust P.S. By the way, is Maharaji still the lord to you too? You didn't answer that question that I asked before. But don't worry if you don't feel like replying to that. I know Maharaji doesn't want premies saying he's the lord, even though he still gives darshan at Amaroo.
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I came here because I heard there were premies who had problems and my first thought was to talk to them.Which seems pretty close to why you came. As it happened I didn't get to the forum for a couple of weeks, I started reading EPO, and by the time I visited the forum I had already realised I was the one with the problem,.. I had been in a cult all my adult life and only just found out. I'm sorry to hear about your husband, you must miss him a lot. Bill and I were already premies when we met in London in 1974, I remember being glad about that. It's early morning here, still dark, and he has just gone off to coach a swimming squad. I love him to bits when I'm not too busy being annoyed with him, he's a fine man. Neither of us are premies any more and very glad about that we are too. I remember thinking for many a year that it was the organisation. Of course there are lots of sincere honest premies working in it. They tend to be the ones that get done over the most. And they tend to think it is the managers who make all the trouble. The managers get all frustrated because they tend to think it is the incompetence or whatever of the volunteers that thwarts them from accomplishing whatever task it is Rawat wants of them. Finally I had to recognise that Rawat had the organisation he wants. All the best, Lesley. PS Julie if you feel the urge to satsang please desist it would feel very uncomfortable to read, straight talk is fine!
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How are u Lesley, Thank you Lesley! Derek and I met in 73! 3 Children later and at the young age of 54 he departed suddenly! Im upset when our Children get upset, they adored their Dad and miss him a lot, they have tons of happy memorys, such is life ey Lesley? Derek and I clicked when we met, it was him who told me about Maharaji and Knowledge, so I just carry on now without his company, and thats part of life! When my Dad passed away 3yrs ago,my Mother at the young age of 78 at the time moved away to live in Spain, she is now 81and shes my role model in relation to getting on with my life now that my Husband has departed from this world! Ive seen all the carry on around the people who call themselves staff at the big events, and some of them have made a right mess, upsetting people with their big powerful authority, mind u Leslie im one person who always stood up to anyone who went on with that noncence! They never stopped me sitting near the front to see Maharaji, but some of them sure as hell tried! Some of the staff were real bullies and others were very nice! It takes all kinds to make a world! Perfection is in the hearts of all humans, but some of the heads are overflowing with garbish! It clears out in time if they get it right! Hope this is what u call normal talk? What is Satsang and what is normal talk? Satsang means Company of truth as u know Leslie< Normal talk is normal talk! lesley if u feel the urge to do what u want to do, do it, cause its not up to me to monitor what u have to say! Free to say what u know and feel! love and best wishes Julie
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Hi Julie, now that I have read most of your post, I would like to say that you are really a cutie. But something sounds unreal, like a poem from someone who does not come to the score of existence. You are living in the world of M like Alice in Wonderland. Out of my perspective you are still living in that sort of little glasbowls, when you shake it, it will snow and that looks sweet. But when it helps you do ease your pain, than it seems to be okay, but, but where does the pain come from that you seem to hide so perfectly with so much sugar. stop to be so lovely, too lovely is too much illusion....wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Wed, Mar 15, 2006, 08:00:17
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Hello Wolfie, how come you dont trust me may i ask? what exactly sounds unreal to you! Im not exactly a poet! alice in wonderland is a story Children like, and whats wrong with that?by the way i dont have pain, i have many things to deal with, but i dont have pain, i have emotions, not pain. Love to you Wolfie Julie x
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Hi Sweety, what sounds untrue is, that your words come too easy, and cause I was a premie for nearly 30 years - I have came to the club in the same year as you 73 - there was a time I would have nearly said the same things like you, cause that is the language you learn to speak in the cult, the language of a world of make believe. Whats about pain? Okay I did't meant physical pain, I mean emotional pain and for my taste you run with a lot of emotions through the world, and you should know my dear the opposite of a devote is an emote!!!
And my impression is still that you make yourself a good time to joke around here on the forum, but that's okay with me.............love.............wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Fri, Mar 17, 2006, 02:08:44
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Hello Wolfie. Thank you for your nice letter, i like your attitude, you dont seem to want to offend and thats nice, it indicates you are an open minded person, i assume ur a woman, wonder are u the same person? im not sure because of ur name! I remember a girl in Ireland years ago and her nickname was Wolfie. my words do come easily and they are true, why do u not trust me may I ask Wolfie? I didnt learn to speak a language from listening to Maharaji, I speak from my own experience. I know you dont mean physical pain< Emotional pain is differant> im a very emotional person Wolfie and am very in tune with my own emotions. im always crying about one thing or another! Im part of a very large Family and at times we have plenty to cry about, as everyone has at times! i dont experience emotional upset as pain! I cry about something sad and then relax in the experience within me! I find practising Knowledge fantastic, really I do Wolfie and im being totally honest with you, as a matter of fact I would find it much harder emotionally if i didnt know the place within me where i can tune into the moment and feel the peace there. Im not joking around on this forum honestly im not! i understand that people are upset about things that happened to them in relation to their own experiences and im not judging them because of that, ive had knowledge for a long time just like you Wolfie and dont u know ive seen all sorts of carry on over the years that I dont approve of! I practise the Knowledge regardless! thank you for your kindness! I like you. Love and best wishes Julie x
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Hi Julie, no I don't want to offend, it does'nt make sense to me, life is too short for wasting much time with offending and fighting. No I'm not that person you supposed, I'm male and come from germany. What came to my mind when I read your post is something sweet and something crazy, I would like to say some sort of "funny Bunny". In one way I'm suprised that you nearly respond to every post and I'm surprised that you hang around that ex-premie forum and that makes me think that you are fooling here around a little bit. For people who still believe in Maharaji it is a pretty rough place here.
I'm even a person who turned his back to Maharaji cause there is too much aspects of his personallity that is hiden before the normal second row premies and I don't like this bigottery and someone you lives his life with a double face can not be my teacher. That does not mean that I don't appreciate that state of mind where there is tranquillity, this peace of mind. I like to sit and be aware of my breaht, I like to walk and be aware of my breath, I like to be aware of my breath and have distance to my toughts and not be a victim of my own emotions like anger, fear.
Since I left the cult around Maharaji I see much more how this earth is in the hands of us all and that we all have to learn to understand that we have to give our best to get free from suffering.
I still have a few premiefriends and I 've learnt to speak open with them, but the connection to Maharaji is more symbolic, he is more like a altar of hopes and dreams for them or like a talisman that brings good luck. I still know quiete a few people in this spirituell scene and there a people I know who are with Say Satia Baba, Rajhnees, Jesus, Babaji, Krishna, Buddha and his million Lamas, Gods and Godess all kinds and the most of the followers think that they have the one and only.
Next door to me sits a man who belongs to this christian fundamentalist who goes against Darwin and this war in Iraq has religious demension for him, for him I'm a completly lost soul and bound to millions of years to spent in hell after I 've died, okay I don't know whether there is something like hell. But I know there can be unberable suffering in this life and I see that this life has a tremendous connection to suffering and sadness and this is something that haunts us all and sure there are methods and teaching that can ease that kind of suffering. But suffering is universal and the solution is universal. Yesterday I saw a documentry about India and there was a little girl who lived under very hard circumstances and that little girl said something that impressed me very much and I agree with it on every level. That girl said: “ once you agree that this world is full of pain and sadness, then you will stop complaining and you can be satisfied and be in touch with happiness. I mean every premie and ex-premies should share a wisdome like this.
Love and good wishes ..............wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Mon, Mar 20, 2006, 03:51:21
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Satsang is quite complex to define. Easy to detect in that you feel like you've been slimed. And I am glad to report it felt like normal talk!Well almost, the bit about perfection and garbage was slipping in that direction, but you stopped yourself didn't you. Funnily enough the bit which is overt satsang if you like, calling it the company of truth, I was quite comfortable with because it is your honest belief and you were wanting to say something to me. And that was the sense I made of 'satsang is the company of truth' initially. That it was where people spoke honestly. That as premies these people were having a divine experience of life and talking about it is the only explanation for what they were saying that gels honestly with 'satsang is the company of truth'. Ah but I was yet to become a premie myself. It got a wee bit more complicated there for a while. Indeed I was told that now each word must be the truth which was satsang or I would come back in my next life as a dog barking. As a premie I found I didn't have a lot to say! Surrender and let Maharaji talk through you in practical terms is let go of your own thought process and imagine what you think Maharaji would say and then open your mouth. That was satsang in the early days and I often enjoyed myself. Though I never had a lot to say from the satsang chair it was always a bit of a highlight, and in normal talk it worked quite well for me. Gave me a flimsy confidence to open my mouth and as I had little to no idea of what Maharaji might say but thought I was bound to like it, said as I wanted. So yes now there's satsang as the time and place where a gathering of premies takes place in front of a video screen or the man himself. As I said, it's complex to define.
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Hi, Lesley >Bill and I were already premies when we met in London in 1974< Does Baker Street ring any bells? rgj
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Elementary my dear Watson, I worked in a vego restaurant for a little while on Baker St. and that's about it.
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Cranks? With Bobby? And, um, a player from Blue Aquarius? In which case I think I knew you. It's a long time ago now. 
T
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Yeah, a long time ago and I can't remember the name. It was in the basement of a large healthfood store, at first I was allowed to go and pick whatever I wanted off the shelves to cook with but was stopped when they realised I was using lavish amounts of the most expensive things...it was a popular place for lunch, huge helpings, groovy waitresses and an older german managing the restaurant, he was a little bit Fawlty and a little bit naughty and generally rather unpleasant, but the name of the place?...
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"my understanding abouy death is firstly it happens to all of us, just like birth did!"
Did you need a guru for this one? That surely is not a profound statement, is it Julie? Your education in some areas had to be better than whatever training you received, and ignored, in spelling and grammar. Someone, somewhere along the way has to have mentioned that death and birth happen to everyone on the planet.
"i understand the breath to be me."
Are you kidding? You identify yourself as "the breath"? Surely, at least, you identify yourself as "My breath"? The breath is one of many means by which the body expels waste. Do you want to carry this analogy any further? Are you also "the urine"? Perhaps "the sweat"? Shall we keep going with this, or it that enough? I want to keep it simple for you Julie. I know you are into simple.
"My understanding is very simple, it just seemes natural to me."
Your breath seems natural? No kidding? As we are creatures who require respiration to exist, yes, it ought to seem natural. Did you need a guru for this, too? Let me guess; it's the guru with the breath fetish. He makes a huge, big deal about the breath, convinces people that it is something extraordinary and that, somehow, he has the "key".
You have been fed a wagon load of shit, Julie. I hope you smell it and dump it before it affects your brain any more negatively than it already has.
On a personal note, please type your letters into something with spell check and paste them in. You are making premies and the Irish look stupid. I really don't care how you make premies look, but as an Irish citizen, I resent your horrible, bog-trotter spelling and grammar. I don't care if you do talk that way. Ireland has an adequate education system and you were taught to express yourself properly in the written word. Try not to embarrass the country, please.
Modified by Premie_Spouse at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 10:46:35
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Hello Premie spouse, spell check does'nt interest me in the slighest nor do full stops nor commas. dont worry about my education dear premie spouse, see english is not my native tongue> I represent myself not a country or other people who have received knowledge like me! I dont resent anything about you, as i have never met u and dont know anything about u! O by the way dear Premie spouse i went to school on the hill "High school" u my dear try not to embarrass youself, do take care of yourself and its clear we didnt go to the same school. dont worry about my spelling and i wont worry about anything about you. love to you. Julie x
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Julie, Based on the repetition in your posts -- that means you keep saying the same thing in the same way -- and the latest posts you made in this thread, I'd say you are taking up valuable space on this forum. I think you're pulling people's chains here because you are so far gone into Maharaji's cult, you don't even know how to carry on a normal conversation. You say nothing, other than what you've been hearing for the past 30+ years practicing Rawatism. It's boring!!! We know the spiel, we gave the same spiel when we were premies, and we don't want to hear about how great you think Maharaji is. He's a fraud and a conman and you protect him. We don't! You are an inconsiderate person, too. You say you don't care about anything, and it's obvious that you don't. Because of that you just don't give a care at all what other people here say to you, and you've parked yourself here as if you have some special privilege or right to post beause you're a premie. You've got some ego going. You certainly don't care about anyone here. That's how you're coming across and loudly. People here know what it's like to worship Maharaji, Julie, so please stop giving satsang, and also please engage in conversations, instead of repeating the same thing over and over. Again, it's BORING! It's a waste of people's time to talk to you unless you're willing to say something of value. "Satsang" has no value here or anywhere. You know what's also very odd about you, Julie? You say you don't care about the English language, but your Lord, Maharaji, your Perfect Master speaks the English language. In short, Julie, you are being very rude. And please don't keep signing your posts...love Julie. You know nothing about real love.
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 16:41:30
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Julie was responding to a post with "Come on Julie let's talk" in the topic heading. And Jim started this thread by inviting her to post here and interact with us.However, I agree with everything you say. This is the expremie forum and we shouldn't have to put up with satsang here. It is boring zzzz. She seems to be unaware of how her words may offend expremies. When I first started reading her posts she reminded me of something out of The Stepford Wives - programmed on automatic! (Sorry Julie if you're reading this, but that's how it came across.) When you're in a cult you don't realise how strange it looks to others.
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Julie was responding to a post with "Come on Julie let's talk" in the topic heading. And Jim started this thread by inviting her to post here and interact with us. Exactly my point. Her responses have been so patronizing and sorely lacking in substance. Julie really doesn't care about anything that I can tell, except Maharaji, because in her world view the only person of value in the world is Rawat. She's well aware that people don't want to hear her satsanging, but she does not care what we feel or think, and that's rude. Sometimes, in order to get through to a "Stepford Wife" you have to shake things up a little. I really don't care if Julie posts here every day. That's not up to me, thank God. And everyone knows that I have little patience with true-believing, die-hard, mind-numbing premies, that's for sure. Besides, I did write a really sweet post to her below so I'm crediting it to my "nice" account!
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Mar 14, 2006, 16:36:20
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"see english is not my native tongue>"
English is not your native tongue? What, may I ask, is? Gibberish? Are you a native speaker of Irish? Where you born and raised in the Gaeltacht? That is amazing. I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone as young as you presumably are, would have had Irish as a first language. I'd love to hear more about the area you were born in. I believe there are only about 100,000 people who are fluent in Irish and only a few of those had Irish as their first language. Please tell me more about that, as I am fascinated by it.
"my dear try not to embarrass youself,"
Thank you for your deep concern, Julie. I would be most grateful if you will point out to me where I have embarrassed myself, as I am unaware of it.
"its clear we didnt go to the same school. "
Truer words were never spoken.
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I knew a family who lived on the tip of the Dingle Peninsular right to the West of Ireland ,and I have visited them in that most beautiful place ( Dunquin) looking out to The Blasket Islands. A couple and their four sons ( the oldest would be about 36 years now).At home they were all Gaelic (Erse) speaking. When they were young ,the boys attended their local school where most lessons were in Gaelic. When I went shopping in Dingle or even in Tralee, I heard gaelic spoken all around me....that would be 20 years ago. The oldest son,Ronan ( which he pronounced Rnaan with the stress on the second syllable) stayed at my flat in Paris for a six months during his "gap" year before university in Galway.Although he came from "the back of beyond" he was extremely resourceful and soon found a job as his French was excellent.To his delight he found other mother tongue Gaelic speakers in the Irish Bars in Paris and they used to have get-togethers and sing and speak in their language . I think the language is far from "dead" and find it and the accompanying culture very fascinating. Interestingly , while living in France , I also met native speakers of " Breton" , another celtic language spoken in Brittany;a sister language to Irish Gaelic but more similar to Welsh.
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That's really interesting Lexy. I learn from you when you talk about your expertise and experience with languages and people. Thanks!
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I agree that Irish Gaelic is not dead, though it is in serious trouble. It is spoken in our home, on occasion. Speakers of Scots Gaelic are, interestingly, increasing. I hope the same happens for Irish, and that the Breton language also stays alive. I believe Manx, the other major Gaelic language, is considered to be extinct, though I may be wrong about that.
I did not say that it is impossible for Julie's first language not to be English. I merely believe that, given the extremely small number of people who have Irish as their first language, it would be unusual. But, it would fascinating and I would love to hear more about it. And, she has not said what her native language is, though she has said it's not English. I am interested. It would be nice if she would elaborate on what she said.
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According to a radio programme I listened to a few months ago, Manx is slowly but surely on the rise with schoolkids eagerly taking to it after some intitiative from some determined campaigners. Some in my family spoke a smattering of Irish Gaelic but none were actually fluent.It's a shame I don't speak it but I guess there's still time to learn. I think it survived better out on the West coast if I'm not mistaken.
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I think the language is far from "dead" and find it and the accompanying culture very fascinating.
I'm not so sure Lexy, long term that is, but I hope you're right. I know the Dingle peninsular quite well, as the family of one of my lifelong friends, before, during, & since the K days, although he's still a believer, comes from there.
If you ever go back you'll be startled by the transformation in as short a time as 20 yrs.
For me a lot of the magic has gone, but I now recognise that the romantic/ faux spiritual delight I took in the place, was at the expense of the impoverished inhabitants & their marginalised remoteness.
It doesn't feel like the edge of the world anymore, but that seems to suit the present generation just fine, or rather those amongst it who can still afford to live there.
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"For me a lot of the magic has gone, but I now recognise that the romantic/ faux spiritual delight I took in the place, was at the expense of the impoverished inhabitants & their marginalised remoteness." I hope I don't become as disillusioned as you seem to have Pat.The family I knew were well aware of the specialness of their part of the world and didn't see themselves as "marginalised".They may not have been well off financially but IMO they felt rich in other ways.I am sure that,as you say, the area has changed in the (actually) eighteen years since I was last there;however I don't think that the view, as you come over the crest of the mountains, of the the Islands, swathed in mist with the setting sun behind, and the Atlantic stretching on and on beyond (all the way to America) could ever fail to enchant even the most cynical heart.
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I wouldn't say I was disillusioned. It's just that I don't see things the same way as I used to, & apart from that the demographic has changed, the religious influence is less, & expectations are greater.
Actually, given the crucial part which religion plays in the traditional culture, it's very difficult to predict the consequences of its (relative) decline.
I'm still enchanted by the beauty of the place, who wouldn't be?
Well, guess who.
I remember someone who used to post here a few yrs ago, & who lives on the Beara peninsular, shit, I met the guy once even, but have temporarily forgotten his name......anyway, he had a story about how he invited a load of premies down for a meditation weekend or something, & when they started to get to the really 'omigod this is beautiful' part of the journey, the mahatma/instructor ordered everyone to close their eyes & get on Holy Name to avoid the Temptations of the Devil.....oops, sorry, Mind.
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I've been reading a lot of Frank McCourt lately! ~Shelagh, who's partly Irish too--the better part!
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