I can see why new "students" of Rawat might not like the truth about their "master"
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Posted by:
cq ®

03/13/2006, 13:20:54
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One major problem with the Wiki article on Rawat is that there are a number of people editing it who have never known how Rawat promoted his message in the early days. And by attempting to deny the experience of those of us who were there, they are - quite justifiably - being accused of revisionism.

Perhaps part of the trouble is that some of more active editors have never been exposed to the kind of ideas that Rawat actively promoted in those days. No doubt they might be shocked at what they read, if all they know is the more recent version of events that EV now propagates. Then again, they might not be. Let them decide for themselves. Here's Raja ji - the brother of Prem Rawat, speaking in 1977:

QUOTE

"Luckily we're all premies here and we can really openly talk about, you know, our problems. And the only problem 1 think every premie has is with his mind. Primarily the cause of all our confusion is our mind. The mind doesn't want to really get into it. And because the mind doesn't want to get into it, you know, it's like always a very good excuse for a certain thing.

And Maharaj Ji has been giving so much focus lately just to this trust we should have in him. And just for the faith we should have in him. And that's, for me, the most important, to have that trust that, "Guru Maharaj Ji, you are really my Lord." Like, whatever we sing in Arti, you know, like "Guru Maharaj Ji, you are my father, you are my brother, you are my mother . . . superior power in person." If we really believe in that, if we really let it manifest in our lives, we'll be, I'm sure, in a very good position; we'll be really A-okay. But that has to really manifest, obviously, for us. And the only way that can manifest is that we have to really get into meditation. Meditation is really important.

... and that's all I have to say, that meditation is really the key to all our problems, to everything in the world. If you can only just really get into meditation, everything will be really beautiful. Because if you are really meditating, you will automatically complete the circle of satsang, service, and meditation, and will really come from that right place. And then only, when we go through that darshan line, we can really communicate with Guru Maharaj Ji. Even that one second we have, we can really communicate to him that we really love him, that we are really there, and we are really his devotees.

We are his children, and all we can really do is try and try and try. And just try to make him happy. That's all there is in the world for us. Just try from our side, and whatever he does is fine then.

And all we have to do is just really play our part in it. Just really meditate, and really realize in our lives, as much as we can. Guru Maharaj Ji. The only thing our life — the sole purpose of our being here, to serve that beautiful Lord, our Guru Maharaj Ji. And that's all I really have to say. Thank you very much".

ENDQUOTE

From excerpts of Raja Ji's Satsang at the Court of Love Retreat, September 3, 1977
as quoted on Drek's site (see link below)





Related link: http://drek.org/pages/scans/divinetimes/1977_09/raja_ji_word_by_word.htm
Modified by cq at Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 13:25:10

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Re: Here is what has been deleted from the lead section
Re: I can see why new "students" of Rawat might not like the truth about their "master" -- cq Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Andries ®

03/13/2006, 13:53:15
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According to Time Magazine in 1975, devotees of the Divine Light Mission worshiped Prem Rawat as The Lord of the Universe [6], but a memoir of an early follower of DLM in the 1970s states that only a fraction of the followers believed him to be divine. [7] J. Gordon Melton, a religious scholar, wrote in 1986 that Prem Rawat, whom he considered a Sant Mat leader, claimed to be an embodiment of God on earth, and a fitting object of worship and veneration.[8] On the other hand, he denied several times to be God.






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Re: new "students" know the truth about their "master"
Re: I can see why new "students" of Rawat might not like the truth about their "master" -- cq Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Ocker ®

03/13/2006, 15:04:06
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Anybody who is editing the Wiki PR page knows how Prem Rawat "promoted his message in the early days" no matter when they "received Knowledge". Being involved in the "edit wars" and doing even the minimal research they need to counter the truth has informed them of that. Without knowing what actually happened they would be far less effective as "keepers of the gate". They are coldly and effectively using the Wiki rules with only one goal - to show that Rawat has never been wrong and never claimed or believed he had divine powers and they are doing that for one reason only - they believe he is divine.

I've recently been reminded how after all these years premies can still believe that the "energy" they were "revealed" is the "energy that is keeping us alive" and how that totally proves their belief in Rawat despite their lives being completely ordinary in every respect to the eyes of an outside observer. It's hard for me to accept but it is apparent that people really can take their early 70's experiences in DLM and that can be the dominant vision of their lives.






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Bang on the nail,Ocker - Rawat 'must' be Divine
Re: Re: new "students" know the truth about their "master" -- Ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
moley ®

03/13/2006, 15:20:25
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Why would any premie keep on doing all that tedious fingers-in-the-eyes, elbows-in-the-air acrobatics if they didn't believe that the K techniques came from 'Rawat the Divine'?

No one in their right mind would attempt that stuff on a daily basis for their own good.  It's because they think (bless 'em) that God-in-a-Bod wants them to do it, and they will become weed-ridden fields, as opposed to flower-filled meadows (see below 'Well we're all damned' - on Joy's thread) ), if they stop poking themselves in the eye.

As you say:

 They are coldly and effectively using the Wiki rules with only one goal - to show that Rawat has never been wrong and never claimed or believed he had divine powers and they are doing that for one reason only - they believe he is divine.






Modified by moley at Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 15:22:21

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No one in their right mind . . .
Re: Bang on the nail,Ocker - Rawat 'must' be Divine -- moley Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Dr.wow ®

03/13/2006, 18:10:40
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Well I think that there are a few of us (not necessarily posting here) who have rejected Rawat as a teacher/guide/guru but still enjoy taking our meds.   The techs as shown by Rawat have been around for quite some time and are in the public domain.  I certainly do not believe that Rawat has any proprietary ownership.   I have a pleasant, calming experience and find myself better equipped to deal with life's adversities.  I don't think that I am experiencing "truth" or that Rawat has anything to do with it.

It is inaccurate to refer to this practice as poking one's eyes, etc.  No pressure should be placed on the eyeballs at all, no pinching of the nerve there.  These are simply focussing techniques.  It's not really that far-fetched to think if you calm some of your relentless information processing down you might feel some naturally occurring good vibes.  Why is this so taboo?  If people want to think that all meditation practices are simply pre-scientific superstitious voodoo clap-trap that's fine - but its grossly unfair to people who genuinely gain benefit - and that includes premies.

For me it is the fact that Rawat has used the dispensing of these techs in order to gain devotion to himself that is disturbing.  That he advertised himself as a Krishna-type, a Perfect Master and then used people's trust in him to extravagantly enrich himself.  It is the fact that people surrendered their lives completely to him by his direction and when he got what he wanted or changed direction he just simply walked away leaving them to pick up the pieces.  No accountablity, no responsibility and nothing but revisionist bullshit ever since to try to cover his tracks.






Modified by Dr.wow at Mon, Mar 13, 2006, 18:12:44

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Re: No one in their right mind . . .
Re: No one in their right mind . . . -- Dr.wow Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Ocker ®

03/13/2006, 18:22:09
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Well moley has his/her own ideas about it. I kept up breath meditation for a while but I'd never been too impressed by the other techniques and 4th technique was always embarassing to think about. I guess it depends upon whether you actually saw divine light or heard anything but the sound of your bodily processes. I decided that I much preferred intensity of life experience and excitement rather than calmness and as I didn't worry much about anything I didn't continue with meditation. Have you ever tried any of the more sophisticated methods of meditation?






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The Techs
Re: Re: No one in their right mind . . . -- Ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Dr.wow ®

03/13/2006, 19:55:44
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Never really felt the need to, I've been happy practicing these techs. The other meditation techniques that I have heard about such as chanting or staring at a candle or the zen stuff like paying particular attention to everything around me, seems remote or too much trouble. 

I'll be honest with you . . . I know that a helluva lot of people haven't gotten a damn thing from practicing these techs and look down with suspicion and derision on anyone who says that they do.   Like you are still stuck in a belief system and well, just given time, the other shoe will drop.  At the same time, if so many intelligent people haven't gotten anything out of this practice it just can't be the world panacea that Rawat claims it to be.  Nor, would Rawat have needed to turn to cognac and dope to deal with his own personal stresses.







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Re: No one in their right mind . . .
Re: Re: No one in their right mind . . . -- Ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

03/14/2006, 01:54:50
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... and 4th technique was always embarassing to think about.

well you aren't doing it right brother! It is the most practical of the techniques. There's no better way of cleaning your tonsils or helping clean up a sore throat. And it is the only one worth showing anyone - look kids - no tongue! It's the other three I haven't found a use for.






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