Is this true?
  Archive
Posted by:
Andries ®

03/06/2006, 14:52:43
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




From Meredith B. McGuire's book "Religion: the Social Context"

Ch. 5 "The dynamics of religious collectivities", section "Organizational Transformations"

"When a movement becomes established, there is a strong tendency for the organization to calcify around the memory of the early dynamism; its own tradition becomes the rationalization for why things should be done in a certain way.

  Early stages of a movement organization involve simple structures such as the charismatic leader and followers or leader, core followers, and other followers. The transition to legal-rational structures is typically accompanied by the elaboration and standardization of procedures, the emergence of specialized statuses and roles, and the formalizing of communication among members. The early years of the Divine Light Mission (DLM) in the United States were characterized by rapidly growing, loosely affiliated local ashrams (i.e., groups of devotees, usually living communally), united mainly by the devotion to the ambiguous charismatic figure of Guru Maharaj Ji. As the DLM became increasingly structured and centralized, leadership and power focused in the Denver headquarters. The guru's desire to consolidate his power and authority over the movement in the United States resulted in greater formalization: rules and regulation for ashram living, standards for recruited "candidates", and pressure toward certifying movements teachers." (Thomas Pilarzyk The origin, development, and decline of a youth culture religion: An application of the sectarinization theory in Review of Religious Research 20, 1:33-37, 1978) "

Andries






Modified by Andries at Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 14:58:25

Previous Recommend Current page Next

Replies to this message

Seems fairly accurate
Re: Is this true? -- Andries Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
JHB ®

03/06/2006, 15:11:52
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin





I would dispute the idea that the early ashrams were 'loosely affiliated'. I believe that there were houses of Maharaji's devotees in the west from 1969, but those that were Guru Maharaj Ji's ashrams were pretty formal from the inception of Divine Light Mission.

Certainly, your quote correctly highlights the guru's desire to consolidate his power. Even now, if you were to ask any devotee who makes the decisions in EV if it isn't Rawat (as they claim) then they would be hard pressed to give you an answer.

John.





Modified by JHB at Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 15:15:16

Previous Recommend Current page Next
Re: Not necessarily the figurehead
Re: Seems fairly accurate -- JHB Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Andries ®

03/06/2006, 15:26:19
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




Thanks for your answer, but if it is difficult to give an answer to the question who makes the decision in an organization then it is not necessarily its figurehead. I do not know who makes many of the decisions in the company that I work for. I do know that the figurehead of Wikipedia (Jimbo Wales) has some influence, but he does not make all decisions. What I mean to say is that the question who makes decisions cannot always be easily answered.

Andries






Modified by Andries at Mon, Mar 06, 2006, 15:26:50

Previous Recommend Current page Next
Read Sophie Collier's 'Soul Rush' here...
Re: Re: Not necessarily the figurehead -- Andries Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nigel ®

03/07/2006, 01:08:21
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




- Thanks to Ocker lower down for this link. 

http://home.iprimus.com.au/edreyfuss/SoulRush.html

There's an interesting description of subtle power struggle between the 'top-down', hierarchical set-up which was there from the start at the Denver HQ, and the ashramite foot-soldiers who were hoping for a more collective, 'bottom-up' movement.  It's almost touching how naive the 'creative' types used to be in hoping they could use their orginal talents and imaginations in shaping the way forward for DLM... 

(See also an intriguing section on Mata ji getting the mahatmas to beat up Raja ji and Claudia for getting married without her knowledge or blessing.)

Soul Rush is a fascinating read which I'd never come across before, and I wish I'd read it before joining the cult. 

In fact, if I had, I wouldn't have!






Modified by Nigel at Tue, Mar 07, 2006, 01:35:02

Previous Recommend Current page Next
'Soul Rush' here...
Re: Read Sophie Collier's 'Soul Rush' here... -- Nigel Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jean-Michel ®

03/07/2006, 02:21:53
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin





Here's the text.
The first chapters omitted, as they relate the author's youth,
personnal accounts not related to our subject.


Uploaded file
Soul_Rush.doc280.0 KB  





Modified by Jean-Michel at Tue, Mar 07, 2006, 02:27:28

Previous Recommend Current page Next
What happened to Sophia Collier ?
Re: 'Soul Rush' here... -- Jean-Michel Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Lexy ®

03/08/2006, 19:34:05
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




Thanks Nigel and J-M for the links.I enjoyed the read and wondered what the author was doing now.I googled and somehow wasn't surprised at what I found .

So NOT rotting vegetable !

See link: 





Related link: http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2001/06/collier2.html
Modified by Lexy at Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 19:39:06

Previous Recommend Current page Next
I can add one personal experience to that
Re: Is this true? -- Andries Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Susan ®

03/06/2006, 16:09:23
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




the quote you have is from 1978. I can tell you a few things about ashrams but Joe could help a lot too he was a community coordinator.

I don't know if the ashrams were ever really "loosely" affiliated. When I was in the cult, 1975-1979 they were very closely affiliated. People were transferred from one to another and the ashrams were quite clearly affilialiated with Denver and there was always someone in charge of the ashram and a hierarchal authority structure. When I joined the ashram special permission had to be granted from Rawat himself because I was a minor. I was 16. Now of course Jossi would want something in writing which of course I do not have. But the idea that Rawat was not the commander in chief of the ashrams is ridiculous. I think there was always been some premie who was president or a person of high rank in the cult ( or a group ) but Rawat was in charge. At his whim at any time he could change any rule or disband them. They would not exist without his consent and I know there were instances in which he personally judged whether a person could join, had to leave, or needed to be moved from one to another.







Previous Recommend Current page Next
Re: Is this true?
Re: Is this true? -- Andries Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nik ®

03/06/2006, 17:40:36
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




Rawat did actually talk (circa 1971 ?)  about how the western ashrams were supposed to be although he rewrote the rule book later on for the super devotional period. The inititial conception was that the western ashrams were to combine the 'retreat' aspect of the Indian ashrams with a 'dynamic' propogation role. So from early on the western ashrams were 'official'.

However, everything about DLM was chaotic - and frankly just plain crap. There was also huge variations between the national set ups and even within countries/regions. In the UK certainly all the legal stuff regarding rents/service charges etc were the responsibility of the residents - the organisation had no involvement, neither was there any legal contract between ashram residents and DLM. There were also 'non' official ashrams where premies set themselves up to live like ashram residents without being sanctioned by the organisation. It is therefore understandable why Pilarzyk wrote what he did - though I think in many respects he overstates the 'transition' to legal rational structures.

While the later ashram structure was based much more on an iron rule for individuals there is little sign that the organisation became any more 'rational' - if anything it became more chaotic. IMO it was this 'chaos' that actually lay at the basis of Rawat's control, premies never knew where they stood so they were always having to 'reference' themselves on Rawat.

Pilarzyk's analysis also gives no role to the non organisational elite who made up the 'court' of King Prem. While some of PAMs - People Around Maharaji - were organisational operatives there were others, particularly individuals who had private wealth who played no part in the day to day running of DLM and certainly were never part of the ashram system.

The fact that Rawat could happily dissolve the ashrams almost overnight also undermines Pilarzyk's position - which if pursued logically would conclude that closing the ashrams would have entailed Rawat giving up his centre of power.

Rawat's exercise of power  has always depended upon the guru/devotee - master/pupil relationship being maintained on a (believed by the premies to be ) personal level.

Legal/rational structures have only played a role in delivering the lifestyle/material wants/pet projects that Rawat has demanded over the last 30 years, and Legal/rational structures have IMO  played only an incidental role in Rawat's exercise of power and control.

Nik







Previous Recommend Current page Next
Re: Is this true?
Re: Re: Is this true? -- Nik Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Lexy ®

03/08/2006, 09:02:18
Author Profile


Alert Forum Admin




"However, everything about DLM was chaotic - and frankly just plain crap."

So very ,inevitably true, Nik. 

Although,as long as we steered clear of any "official" involvement, some of our Saaf London jumble sales went remarkably smoothly !







Previous Recommend Current page Next