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| Here's an idea: for everybody here, for Rennie Davis |  |  | |
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To Everybody: Ok, now that people have gotten some things out of their system, and justifiably vented a bit regarding Rennie and his letter, here's an idea at least worth trying: Remember that with Donner, Dettmers, and some others (including even non-premie Halley), people collectively brainstormed and compiled some polite questions for each of them. And then, in that scenario and spirit, nobody jumped all over their cases. They all got a fair shake from the ex-premie forum. After awhile, the old former culties we knew felt a lot more comfortable communicating -- and even posting, and/or emailing back and forth. Everybody involved in the process learned a bunch from the experience. The same approach could be tried again. At the least, nothing gained, nothing lost. If Rennie would just get off his high horse, stop pontificating, and stick to some honest two-way discussions on an equal basis and level of mutual respect, then I think there's the possibility of something good coming out of all this. First, Rennie still believes some of this stuff he was indoctrinated with in the cult and from the whole New Age smorgasbord. There's some understanding and experience that we've all gained from discussing these topics in-depth, reading posts and submitted articles, links, journeys, etc. For instance, I read hundreds of pages of ex-premie testamonials at www.ex-premie.org and the first forum[s] when I truly exited (and I mean Really finally exited from the throes of the Rawat clan gurujism, and its attendant mountain of layers upon layers of bogus conditioned, enslaving concepts), along with reviewing all the docs and other evidence submitted, plus the David Lane writings, and a whole lot of other info out there at other ex-devotee sites of various guru charlatans, as well as studying about co-dependent relationships, reading dozens of related books, and so forth. It takes some time and a conscious effort to rid oneself of the garbage that was reinforced over and over and over again daily in Rawat's cult, especially for people who were around in Rawat's early years in the West. The more involved a person was in the cult, the more layers to peel away. For instance, Rennie still thinks it was Prem, and not his own receptivity and state of mind, that accounted for him experiencing inner light, etc.. Some of us have experienced that light all our lives, for whatever that's worth. Yet, we still fell for the necessity of the guru 'pitch,' because it somehow explained our experience, when we heard of the 'divine light', etc. And then, a whole pile of guru junk got immediately ladled on top of that. As we've observed, Rennie also has this disconnect as far as holding Prem accountable for the Lord of the Universe bs, etc. I still have tapes and videos of all that stuff - from the 1970s all the way to the end of the last century. The person most responsible for pushing the devotion to him, and all the bogus concepts and claims that tied people to him as devotees - was Prem Rawat (Guru Maharaj Ji) himself. The mahatmas (instructors) were just following his agya (direction), and from there so was everybody else. No amount of spin-doctoring by the Rawat cult p.r. apparatus can change that, or obscure the Truth. Rawat played it for all he could, milking the premies for hundreds of millions of dollars - just like the Maharishi, Sai Baba, Ching Hai, Muktananda, Rajneesh, and the rest of the spiritual Eastern frauds who came to the West, ready to convert the naive Westerners to their master-slave cult cash-cow dominions. What Rennie doesn't realize is that anybody - and I mean anybody - can teach those techniques, and many people have taught the same techs, with people reporting the same effects we're more than familiar with. It didn't matter who showed people the techs. The only connection to any experience was within each person, for whatever that relative experience meant to them. I even showed some people, too, and they had similar experiences. Guess what? Then, those people started looking to me. And I said, "No, no, no!" And it would be the easiest thing to succumb to the ego and desires, in that position. Imagine - you could set yourself up as a guru, just like the various Rawats did (and lots of other scammers have done, too). Reinvent the history a bit, concoct a little different approach, introduce the guru concept by talking in riddles and allude to yourself in the 3rd person when speaking of God, Guru, the Master, etc. That works incredibly well in India, where you've got about a billion illiterate superstitious poor people who believe in and worship a tradition of elephant and monkey deities (Ganesh and Hanuman), Gods with 6-8 arms, etc and a huge pile of mythological concepts. You can easily con such people into thinking there's this magical transference of energy, opening up their third eye, etc., and they'll believe it. Then, they'll do anything for you. Anything. We know it, all too well. If an unscrupulous person, say a householder and not a genuine renunciant, set himself/herself up as a guru -- the easy and most powerful ego temptation would be to control and manipulate the devotees. For what? Power, wealth, sex, you name it. And then that addiction becomes all-consuming. And a person like that will say and do anything to keep that power, because these false gurus and self-styled spiritual yogis, masters are themselves the slaves of their desires. This reinforced conditioning has been perfected for many generations in N. India and elsewhere in Asia. Ex-premies and ex-devotees of all types of such cults know the spiels, the games these charlatans use, and the learned helplessness and superstitions that become ingrained in the guileless, surrendered devotee. Kind of like what happens to POWs after extensive brain-washing. It therefore takes a conscious deprogramming process to undo the psychological/emotional/mental personal damage done by greedy gurus and their cults. For instance, as much as some people out there might think Jim is like a pit bull with some premies on the forums, or with people who will believe just about any thing supernatural (or accept anything from a tradition they don't understand) - it sometimes is necessary to be intellectually confrontational with some people, even rude or mocking, in order to bring out the best of a person's long-suppressed reasoning skills, their independence, and to assist them in getting used to honing their rational intelligent brain and mental skills again. In the Rawat cult, all the members were taught NOT to use their brains. The 'mind' was the enemy. Never leave room for doubt. Thus, using your intelligence was being "in your mind." People were taught zombie group-think, not to think for yourself. Whatever didn't jive with Rawat or the cult - was the devotee's fault, never the guru's. Always. I've researched a bunch of other guru cults, and it's the same sick games, the same sick superstitions, the same role-playing, the same subservience, the same types of cult brain-washing. People just giving up the reigns of their lives to these manipulative dictators posing as spiritual people. The guru is the parasite, but pretends to be the giver of the gift, constantly reinforcing the message again and again, at every opportunity. If the guru was Not a parasite, then the guru would give the so-called gift with NO strings of devotion, or of any kind, whatsoever - monetary, or otherwise - attached. If such a thing as a true guru existed, then that guru would Never accept anything tangible in return from the student. After all, that's even what Kabir himself said. That's the quickest way to tell a fraud. The young pampered Napoleon Prem Rawat pretended he didn't want anything monetary in return, just devotion and some service. (He still does pretend this, and the vocabulary and external trappings and modus operandi have been modified with time to conceal the fact that it's just the same old game, at the core of the conditioning.) This Knowledge was supposed to be "Free," right? Yeah, if it's Free, then why does he nowadays even go to the point of making aspirants literally sign legal documents before getting the techniques? It's all about power and control. That's the whole shebang. That's how he got filthy and obscenely rich, off the slave labor and donations/gifts of thousands of his devotees, and that's how his family got every single material thing they have in this entire world. Sure, the finances and diverted non-profit org funds are covered in layers upon layers of shell corporations and fake non-profits and foreign bank accounts now, and so forth, but we know the scam inside and out. We've been around the block by now. We won't be fooled again! Now, back to Rennie. From reading his letter, it's obvious to us he never made it to the point of recognizing this scam for what it really is. He's still caught up in this la-la land, where he retains a large measure of the inculcated guru and cult bullshit, deep within the neurons of his brain. Maybe he thinks he could teach ex-premies, but in fact - he would be the student. Ex-premies would have to teach him how to uncondition this shit in his head that has entrapped him into predictable ways of thinking - and believing. As he's admitted, he made a "leap of faith," based on seeing some inner light. Ok, we understand that, don't we? And that simple 'leap of faith' directed at Prem and his personality cult entrapped Rennie, just like it's done to tens of thousands of people, at various times. So, I think if Rennie could just open up to listen here, and really think about it, and reclaim the brain he had before he got sucked into the Rawat trap, he would be all the wiser and better off again. It would at least show him the falsehood and absurdity of some of the stuff he was spouting in that letter. It would change his life, for the better. Similarly, there are probably some things he eventually felt within and learned from external sources elsewhere, too, that helped him at least have the strength to physically separate himself from the cult, to some extent, years ago. Yet, he is still evidently susceptible, because he never rid himself of some of the underlying concepts and gimmicks foisted on us by the guru. And the guru learned these gimmicks from the age of 2, imitating his dad. That's why he could get up at 8 years old and say and do the things he did, however impressive it might have seemed, at the time. Hey, I was taught violin before I even went to elementary school. By the time I was 7-8, professional classical musicians were calling me the little Paganini. But, I wasn't, really. I had just been trained from an early age. So, it's not surprising that Rennie still remains impressed with those initial experiences in India, when everything was so new to him, and he was most impressionable. Running into by that time a 15-year old who seemed to know more about spirituality than he did, with some common meditation techniques purloined by the family from yogis that sealed the deal. Hey, we all learned the stories, how to give satsang, by example. Now, imagine if any of us had started being groomed to run that racket from the age of 2! It's obvious now why Prem could say the things he did, and so forth. Once you get the drift and the rap down, it's so easy to expand upon it. After awhile, the guru concept logorrhea comes naturally out of the mouth. Everything and any subject can be turned into seeming 'satsang'. We did it, we know the game. From dung beetle discourse to talking about cars to quantum physics. It's just a learned conditioned behavior. And it has an effect on other people, because most people want to believe in something higher than themselves that explains everything and ties everything together, they want something positive, and they want to think they can find ultimate peace and knowledge. Once a person gets into this repetitive conditioning reinforcing pattern of thinking, talking, and believing in this manner conceptually, and ignoring the warning signs and shutting off their brain an hour or two a day, that's it. They're caught, oh yeah, they're in the trap to the point where if you open the cage door, they'll even go out and bring back goodies at the bidding of the cage keeper. They don't even see the psychological co-dependent prison they're in. So, We know Rennie has some steps to make on this journey. Only, HE thinks HE Knows. And he's created this magical space in his head where he's developed new fantasies, adding more concepts to the pile. It's like a disease. You gotta get to the roots of that disease, the bottom of that concept pile, and knock it over, expose it for the crap it really is -- because everything else was simply built on top of that foundation of guru conceptual elephant shit. I see these alternative magazines at the news kiosks and health-food stores all the time. They are so full of this crap - literally shit for the brains, mind-rot. And people fall for it, adding it onto their pile of spiritual baggage and burdensome concepts they carry around with them. You know what I'm talking about: people setting themselves up as Reiki masters, Rolfing, EST, channeling spirits, and on and on and on. It's like a Pandora's Box of peddled wacky spiritual and holistic garbage in these alternative magazines, 99% of it total bullshit. Boulder, Colorado is the capital of this mind-rot plague. All these aging hippies and now next generation hippies, and other people searching for something who are then unwittingly sucked into some of these trips. For many of us in the West, it started when we were kids, beginning with the Judao-Christian mythologies, supersitions, and dualistic concepts. But most of us had enough experience in our own culture to see through the Bible-thumping charlatans. Yet, we were greenhorn babies, we had no such experience or understanding, initially, of some Eastern concepts - and the Asian religions' version of the Bible-thumping eyeball-pressing snake oil salesmen. Rennie jumped from inculcated Methodist to political activist into the clutches of an Eastern Jimmy Swaggert /Jim and Tammy Baker/Jim Jones. Only it looked and sounded and seemed different. After all, it was all so quite new. We were the experimenting hippie generation. We didn't trust our own culture or our elders in society, so we gravitated towards the exotic, the esoteric, the Eastern cultures. For many, the mind-altering drug experience legacy was a contributing factor in what attracted people to the so-called Knowledge techniques. In America, it was a pivotal time in many people's lives back then - with the Vietnam War prolonged, the LSD and mescaline, etc., all the turmoil in society, the race riots, the pop music evolving. Everything seemed to be rolling on this continuum, and people were looking for answers. The greedy charlatan gurus were only too happy to oblige. We naively gave them our personal power, and they took it, and of course abused it for their own selfish ends. In the brainwashing of the cult members, a lot of internal scarring and damage occurred. So, it's not simply enough just to physically walk away from a cult - as Rennie probably did. No, you have to rid yourself of all this artifical harmful guru and cult thinking, and the related mental behavioral tendencies -- from the inside out, because that's exactly how the damage began and occurred, too. The cult conditioning was to break down the student from the inside, beginning with "a leap of faith," "surrendering" to the guru and inculcating the cult concepts, and then the key - basic techs of individual mind-control, but falsely taught as a means to suppress the very brains and intelligence we were born with, leaving a vacuum to be filled with Eastern cult concepts and guru empowerment student disempowerment concepts. Never leave room for doubt. Maharaji used to talk about the 'concept-maker', claiming he was like Shiva breaking the concepts. No, that was a lie; he just cleverly persuaded everybody to let down their guards internally, and then once emptied he filled the vessels [us] with HIS learned concepts, assimilated when he was a guru protege (as modeled and taught by his dada), concepts that debilitate the guru's student both mentally and functionally, to the detriment of the individual's natural and innate personal development. In fact, gurujism stunts one's personal growth and awareness. It's like walking around with a narrow field of vision looking through colored glasses. It is Not empowering for the student, it is enslaving. The enslaved student empowers the guru. Why did all the premies gravitate to and fawn over the mahatmas and cult officials? Because the cult power heirarchy went from the guru through his agents, trickling down to the worker ants. It's only natural. Once premies, their personal power was surrendered and gone, their egos, their independence surrendered to a greedy guru, who naturally abused the situation to the fullest, under false pretenses. The only empowerment was in moving up the cult ladder. So, that explains the attraction of wanting to be an instructor or a coordinator. Or, upon physically leaving the cult, setting oneself up as just another New Age guru-type. It's just a learned behavior. Rennie still carries this baggage around - only, he thinks he's moved beyond. No. In truth, he just piled more similar shit onto that pile. He never rooted out the fundamental problem, at the very bottom of the pile. That's the only way to get rid of it, short of a lobotomy. Starting at the very bottom of that phony conceptual pile of learned behaviors and ways of thinking - from the inside out - dumping that shit right out of your head. So, having some ex-premies around to provide feedback is the best thing that could possibly happen to Rennie right now in his life. You can't bullshit around ex-premies. We know all those spiritual games. We've heard all the raps from thousands of people, all those premies coming around to preach to us - and then becoming ex-premies themselves, including instructors and the very people Rawat even had monitoring the ex-premie websites and forums. It's funny, really. He's got attorneys after prominent ex-premies, he's got his cult computer hackers, he's got his hired spin doctors, the ever-changing FAQs on his websites, the name changes in the organization, the cult requirements for aspirants to effectively sign away their bonafide legal rights, etc. etc. But, we're onto him, and ex-premies aren't ever going away, NOPE, not as long as there's a Rawrat guru on the face of this earth. For every premie who stays entrapped, 10-20 more leave. It's attrition by numbers, except of course in India, where gurujism, rampant superstitions, and a quasi caste system still reign supreme. Anyway, my suggestion is this: whoever wants to contribute, why not just come up with some legit questions you'd really like to ask Rennie. Let's give him a chance - not dump any more of our outrage on him - his pile of shit is already way big enough. That's an awful lot of personal work he's going to have to unravel for himself, that is, if he's interested in actually learning something. I'm done. Rennie's got nothing to fear from me, anyway. The worst I'd do is mirror him back, or make a joke, if he starts ladling out his predictable spiritual amoebic dysentery rap again. That's the only time to really confront him, just like ex-premies have always done, if somebody's conceptual caca really starts to stink. I probably won't even be around when he posts, anyway, and there are other people who'd like to talk with him, get some answers, and in turn maybe help him make sense of it all, too. I'm feeling old and tired now. Gotta go get some rest here, so I can get some work done. later... - Mick
So, why did you leave in the 1970s, Rennie?
Maybe ask him about some inside the cult stuff, whatever...
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