Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques
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Posted by: Nik � 10/26/2006, 10:56:08 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin

The Gheranda Samhita. Trns James Mallinson. Pub. YogaVidya.com ISBN 0-9717466-3-5 A new(ish) translation of the Gheranda Samhita, one of the major Sanskrit source works on Hatha Yoga offers some further assistance in narrowing down how Rawat Snr settled upon just four meditation techniques as way to reveal the "Knowledge of all Knowledge's" In his introductory notes Mallinson settles upon a date of not earlier than 1700 CE for the writing of the Gheranda Samhita, this compares with a commonly accepted date of around 200 CE for the Yoga Sutras of Pantanjali. It seems that whatever might be claimed about 'ancient' teachings, the Gheranda Samhita represents a fairly late construction. Mallinson also echoes earlier authors in saying that the Gheranda Samhita is significant because of the degree to which Brahministic Vedaism has a major influence alongside (or perhaps even over) the assumed Tantric origins of Hatha Yoga texts. A page on EPO http://ex-premie.org/papers/medtech.htm deals with the origin issues, there are though some points which I think may be inaccurate there and the new translation perhaps offers some resolution to those problems. David Lane has argued convincingly that Hans Ji derived his teaching from the Rhadoasomi school - although unsurprisingly Geaves says that Lane is wrong about this. Knowing that Rawat Snr shared a history with the Rhadoasomi does not necessarily help identify where he selected his patent meditation from. Both the Rhadoasomi and Rawat systems have been cut out of a much larger cannon from older traditions and there is not necessarily any direct equivalents to either system to be found in established works on Yoga. The point about all the major Yoga treatise is that they comprise complete instruction for a total process where the techniques of Yoga are not an end in themselves. And in most cases, neither is there an objective or an experience, which is tied to the performance of specific technique in the way the Rawat system ties T1 to Light, T2 to Sound, T3 to 'the Word' and T4 to Taste. In the face of this mismatch between the generality of Yoga and the degraded Rawat system, the way forward in tracing the origin of Hans Ji's choice of meditational practice is perhaps to, instead of starting looking for comparable techniques, the place to begin is with claims for objectives and experiences which are common to Hatha Yoga and to the Rawat system. The Mallinson Gheranda Samhita makes a break with previous translations of a key passage - verse 5 of the final Chapter - Samahdi: "By means of Shambhavi, Bhramari, Kechari and Yoni Mudra, four types of samadhi arise: dhyana, nada, rasananda, and lay siddhi Starting with the four forms of 'physical' samadhi given in the Gheranda Samhita, something very close to the conception of the Rawat 'experience arises- dyhana translates as concentration/visualisation, nada translates as sound, rasananda translates as (bliss in) taste, and lay siddhi translates as (success in) absorption. From these experiences it is possible to work back to see what selection of techniques would be used by a Guru wanting cheap shot samahdi. By going straight to techniques which deliver 'samahdi' all the preparatory exercise of Hatha Yoga, all the strengthening, purification, mental development simply gets discarded. The Guru goes for four big hitting techniques to take his devotees straight to enlightenment. Having alighted on the idea of one technique per 'experience' some of the Hatha Yoga techniques require simplification and the Rawat techniques have their comparable forms in more than one part of the Gheranda Samhita. Chapter 6 of the Gheranda Samhita is devoted to "dyhana", detailing three types, gross, luminous and subtle. Gross dhyana involves various visualisation exercises, Luminous dyhana is described at verse 17 as " Between the eyebrows and above the mind is a light consisting of om, meditate on it as joined with a ring of fire". At verses 18 and 19 subtle dyhana is linked directly to the awakening of kundalini, but verse 20 specifies - " The yogi attains success through Shambhavimudra and dyhana Yoga". Here we see a posture (mudra) combined with a complementary concentration exercise (dhyana). Shambhavimudra involves simultaneously the closing of the eyes, ears and nose using the hands; in Hatha Yoga suspension of the breath is an important objective hence the closing of the nostrils. For a Guru who has no concern to unify yogic practices, merely to reproduce sensory experience relative to a given technique, the complexity of Shambhavimudra can be broken down. In the Rawat system Technique No.1, the closing of the nostrils is done away with, and the dyhana concentration practice is matched with closing of the eyes with the fingers of one hand rather than with two. The remaining part of Shambhavimudra - closing the ears becomes the posture part of Technique No.2. The concentration aspect of T2 is unequivocally derived from the same source as the concentration element of a practice called Bhramari Kumbhak which is described in Chapter 5 of the Gheranda Samhita. The Mallinson translation is very similar to the text given on EPO. The EPO page does however state that Rawat's T2 is Bhramari Kumbhak, this I think is is an over simplification. Kumbhakas are breath suspension techniques and the Rawat techniques do not involve conscious breath suspension/confinement,. Rawat's Technique No.3 is meditation on the breath but it's objective is an experience of peacefulness, or perhaps more accurately an absorption in peacefulness. Before Prem renamed the Techniques 1- 4 this techniques was called The Word and the experience derived from it's practices was said to involve a sense of vibration. The EPO page equates Rawat's T3 with Kewali (kevali/a) Kumbhak(a), (although this is based on a commentary rather than the main text of the Gheranda Samhita). The Rawat T3 can not be a kumbhak because it does not involve the conscious 'confining' of breathing (although unconcious progressively shallow breathing may induce anoxia in Rawat meditation). The relationship between Rawat's T3 and kevali is perhaps illustrated in verse 91 (Chapter 5) of the Gheranda Samhita which reads (Mallinson trans) "The knower of Yoga then calls pranayama Kevala" which could be read as meaning that Kevala is the perfected practice of pranayama. The Rawat T3 is perhaps merely that part of Chapter 5 of the Gheranda Samhita which deals with samahdi, and which had not otherwise been used to underwrite the Rawat T2, and from which the kumbhak practice has been excised. Rawat's Technique No. 4 is unequivocally the kechari mudra of the Gheranda Samhita and the text is very similar to that given on EPO. Rawat has never promoted cutting the tendons on the tongue or the other stretching practices and there seems little likelihood that any Rawat follower has been able to insert the tongue into the Eustachian tube to give the sensation that it is "behind the eyes". The Gheranda Samhita says of kechari mudra: " The body becomes beautiful and samhadi is sure to arise. When it comes into contact with the aperture of the skull, the tongue reaches a liquid. The relationship between the 'tongue technique' and the tasting of 'nectar is undeniable but kechari mudra has significance within the Gheranda Samhita beyond 'blissful tastes'. Kechari is key to kumbhaki - the sealing off the breath within the body - as well as assisting in "directing the gaze between the eybrows". In the Rawat system kechari - or rather partial kechari, is merely an end in itself. The EPO page refers to yoni mudra, and it is one of the four practices that the Gheranda Samhita says leads to samahdi. Yoni Mudra is something of a problem. The EPO page says that it is when all techniques are practised simultaneously, however there is no distinct description given in the Gheranda Samhita and some commentators simply equate Yoni Mudra with Shambhavi Mudra. In any case Yoni Mudra either was not known to Rawat Snr, or it simply was not of use to him. � Whether Hans Ji really did get his techniques from the Gheranda Samhita we are unlikely to know either way, but taking one simple source book, settling on four 'samadhi techniques' with which to excite the masses and giving those techniques an 'ancient knowledge' gloss, seems a rather more likely process than the myths about the Guru's Guru and lineage's and all the other hyperbole. There are other aspects to the Gheranda Samhita which make it a likely source book for the Rawat system. For all the hype about Hans challenging Brahmanism, the set up he bequeathed in 1966 was in many ways traditional Vedantic Hinduism - the primary Hindu Gods were revered, the Hindu Saints and Scriptures provided the 'moral' background, although the Sikh saints were prominent and Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed were invoked on occasion. Philosophically Hans was far closer to the Brahmans than to any tantric and the Gheranda Samhita perhaps more than any other yoga text puts trantra into the back ground. Chapter 4 of the Gheranda Samhita is concerned with pratyahara, although consisting of just 8 verses the whole concerns control of the senses/mind. Control of mind was the grande obsession of the Rawat cult and bahktism - one of the six routes to samadhi was at the heart of the Rawat system. Only 'trance' seems to be missing from the Gheranda Samhita's list of samahdi - perhaps though 'trance' translates as the mythical state of 'realising Knowledge'. Nik Each day a blissful sensation arises from the various flavours. At first the fluid on the tongue is salty and brackish, then bitter and sharp, then like butter, ghee, milk,curd, buttermilk, honey, grape juice , and nectar." ." Earlier translations have structured this text so that each one of the four practices refered to, seems suggested as being a separate and individual route to a respective and separate form of samahdi. Mallison's presentation allows a alternate reading, one that suggests in contrast the comprehensive practice of four techniques which when combined lead to four types of samahdi. The Gheranda Samhita gives separately two other forms of samahdi - devotion and trance.

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Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: PatD � 10/27/2006, 21:13:40 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Thanks for that Nik I couldn't possibly comment on your post with any insight, because there are probably only 50 people or fewer in the whole world who have an in depth objective expertise on the subject, & I'm not one of them. David Lane has argued convincingly that Hans Ji derived his teaching from the Rhadoasomi school - although unsurprisingly Geaves says that Lane is wrong about this Why Ron Geaves thinks he is an expert, is a question best left to himself to wrestle with. I admire your scholarship. Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: Ring Of Fire Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: Ocker � 10/27/2006, 22:03:18 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin "Ring Of Fire" sounds a fair bit like the "Golden Doughnut" which as I recall looked a little like the core of the galaxy and something similar to this altered image (altered by film-makers dedicated to Prem Rawat and shown in "The Birthday Gift" soon to appear on ex-premie.org) Uploaded file     Modified by Ocker at Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 23:27:52 Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: Ring Of Fire Re: Re: Ring Of Fire -- Ocker Top of thread Archive Posted by: Saph � 10/28/2006, 04:42:35 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Hey, nice galaxy, I seem to be only recently becoming aware of just how much cosmic dust is "floating" around, unseen unless silhouetted by "nearby" light sources. That shiny forehead looks a bit worrying though, I'm glad I'm at a safe distance. Uploaded file   Modified by Saph at Sat, Oct 28, 2006, 04:50:01 Previous Recommend Current page Next Thanks for this Nik Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: Bryn � 10/28/2006, 15:45:01 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin And thanks too for the context below re alternative possibilities for DLM all those years ago. I do take your point on this. Yes there were attempts being made to push for more individualism. Does anyone here know Billy Graham, former ancient secretary of Newcastle ashram, and long disappeared into the woods? There was a free spirit for you, another legend etc. Re the techniques: What I liked about the aspirant satsang of my time was its oriental alloy of philosophy, religion, and detailed human psychology. The techniques, and by implication God, were about real human experiences-jealousy, anger, charm, happy feelings and sensations and so on. The western approach is so mental, almost anaemic in contrast. I can see why the evangelicals go to the lengths they do to drum up a bit of fire into what they've got. It seems to me that there is very little of a western nature with which to evaluate the 4 techniques and still give them the religious status they cry out for. The best I've found is some of R�Steiner's esoteric exercises and meanderings. Occultism is so occult! I may be missing something. I have just been reading Maurice�Merleau-Ponty on the phenomenology of perception and though he is no esotericist in any explicit way he does push the boundaries of the rational very hard indeed.�I admire him at the moment. (his thought that is!) Love to you Bryn Previous Recommend Current page Next Great research Nik, thanks. (NT) Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: Cynthia � 10/29/2006, 08:01:27 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin � Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: Roark � 10/30/2006, 12:01:32 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Hi Nik, �I don�t believe that Rawat�s �tradition� fell out of the Radha Soami tree.� And I do think that �Knowledge� is basically a dumbed-down version of Hatha Yoga, which is essentially classic yoga (beautifully codified by Patanjali) but without the dos and don�ts (yamas and niyamas).� I do think the Rawat�s may have borrowed heavily from certain aspects of the Radha Soami tradition, particularly with respect to the Guru/Devotee relationship thing.� At any rate, there was plenty of local traditions for Shri Hans (and his 'lineage' of gurus before him) to�mix and match�from. � Actually, at the end of an addition to my Journey that I wrote a couple of years ago (�Mike Roark�), I�added a couple of things about historical context and described the basic lay of the land as I see it in a very, very general way, as follows: � �For centuries, Indian culture, has included the practice of devotion to a living spiritual teacher, meditation and other practices used by Maharaji and his tradition. �Hinduism� is a veritable cornucopia of belief systems that initially sprang out of the Vedas (it�s initial scriptures codified as four books: the Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yagur Veda and Athara Veda). Subsequent writings were annexed as �scriptures� over a period of hundreds of years to yield scores of pithy Hindu scriptural tomes. For example there are 108 Upanishads considered to be �important�, 18 of which are generally acknowledged to be �principal�. About 1000 or so years after the Vedas were written, the Mahabharata (a chapter of which is the Bhagavad Gita) and the Ramayana epics were written and also became a portion of the ever-expanding vast body of Hindu scripture. The net result (along with a few other factors) is that the �religion� of Hinduism has become more of a extremely diverse culture with a huge buffet table of ideas, practices, and philosophies, where people tend to selectively take what they want and leave the rest. When someone like Buddha came along (circa 500 BC or so) and did not tie and reconcile their teachings to Vedic lore (although it may have looked and felt much the same), new religions (rather than a new sect of 'Hinduism')�sprang up. Maharaji�s 'tradition' grew up in this vast, chaotic and multi-faceted religious background. The Knowledge techniques taught by Maharaji have been around for centuries and used in practically every contemplative tradition in some form or another. For example, the original main written texts of the tantric school of �Hatha Yoga� (not the westernized exercise systems commonly referred to by that name) was apparently codified sometime after 1000 AD vis-a`-vis the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Goraksa Samhita, Gheranda Samhita and Siva Samhita. These texts all describe the Knowledge techniques with reasonable accuracy. These techniques show up (all or in part) in most garden-variety traditions of Hinduism and Yoga (including Tibetan Yoga), as well as the mystical / contemplative schools of the world�s main religious traditions including Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam and Christianity (as well as many modern derivatives of these). �Karma Yoga� is a traditional Indian path of selfless service and the integration of wisdom with action. The notions of selfless service, community, spiritual discourse, monastic dwelling and other aspects of Maharaji�s tradition are shot through every major religious tradition as well.� � Anyway, it seems that many scholars tie the codification of Hatha Yoga to Goraksha, (who supposedly passed it to Gheranda), whom some say was supposed to be around about 1200 AD.� It�s very difficult to date all of this stuff, though.� For example, many scholars put the origin of the four Vedas at about 1800 � 2200 BC, while others put them back pre-3000 BC.� Interestingly, those scholars that put them back the farthest seem to be Indian, perhaps trying to out-ancient the other civilizations. � I�ve read eastern texts that appear to be much, much older than the original Hatha Yoga writings that reference�various Knowledge�techniques individually, but I�ve never seen them packaged as neatly as they are there. Suffice to say that the 'Knowledge' techniques have been around a long, long time.� Personally, I had to 'deprogram' myself from them (and my associated expectations/mythology related to them)�many years ago to be able to go deeper in meditation and more fully into life.� Anyway, I do like the idea of�understanding what Rawat teaches in an historical context.� And I find it odd that many correlate the idea of �legitimate� with �old�, as if it really matters. � Mike Modified by Roark at Mon, Oct 30, 2006, 12:06:08 Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques Re: Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Roark Top of thread Archive Posted by: tommo � 10/30/2006, 13:18:18 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Nik, Mike Trivial point more about where the techniques have�ended up rather than where they have come from. I was surprised to find myself being taught T3 at work a few months back.� It came under the guise of 'grounding'..� the theory�of 'clearing the mind' as preparation for more��innovative thinking.� �Part of an HR innovation excercise sold to the business by some management consultants.��Anyway, one up on K being 'free'... you get paid to learn it. best Tim � Previous Recommend Current page Next re: breath awareness meditation techniques Re: Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- tommo Top of thread Archive Posted by: Roark � 10/31/2006, 21:23:58 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Hey Tim, Yea, where they have ended up.� Wish I could have been paid to learn it.� Almost every decent meditative tradition I know of uses breath awareness as a basic technique, for example �zazen� (Zen sitting practice). I know that my own sitting practice creates a huge stillness, out of which creativity and clarity arise.� If my business is what is in front of me when I mobilize, that creativity and clarity get channeled there. Mike BTW, who were the management consultants?� Previous Recommend Current page Next Hi Mike Re: re: breath awareness meditation techniques -- Roark Top of thread Archive Posted by: Marianne � 10/31/2006, 22:10:05 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin How are things? Give me a jingle at my email: MarianneDB@aol.com">MarianneDB@aol.com Marianne Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: re: breath awareness meditation techniques Re: re: breath awareness meditation techniques -- Roark Top of thread Archive Posted by: tommo � 11/01/2006, 18:18:56 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Hi Mike, Can't remember ..something Zennish like 'Nowhere'?� The course was called 'Frameworks' best Tim Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques Re: Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Roark Top of thread Archive Posted by: Nik � 10/31/2006, 10:19:04 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Mike, >Anyway, I do like the idea of understanding what Rawat teaches in an historical context. Yes, it was the possibility of being able to identify a context that interested me. And of course historical identity also allows a possible cultural definition. Prem is selling his Knowledge as though it has been plucked out of the air, rather in the way the TM is sold as a 'scientifically valid technique' not a religion. But both the Rawat K and the TM meditation have clear antecedences and denying those antecedences is dishonest. It seems essential to me that any practice derived from an 'ancient' teaching should be identified as such because not only does the earlier form of practice have the potential to say something about the modern practice - the reverse is just as likely to be true. In the case of the Rawat meditation, if it is comprised of techniques that were understood to be capable of delivering Samahdi - does that mean that what premies experience is Samahdi ? And therefore does Samahdi consist of no more than being in a state of peace which is what Rawat claims his meditation delivers ? Rawat may want to avoid the issue but Hindus and Hindu scholars, as well as anyone interested in Yoga might reasonably ask "if the Rawat techniques are the Samahdi techniques of the Gheranda Samhita, does Rawat really think so little of Hindu and Yoga philosophies that the ultimate goal of the Yogi is merely to attain "inner peace" ? And if the Rawat meditation has commonality with the Samahdi elements of the Gheranda Samhita, how can Rawat describe his meditation as having no connection to religion ? >I do think the Rawat�s may have borrowed heavily from certain aspects of the Radha Soami tradition, particularly with respect to the Guru/Devotee relationship thing.< That makes a lot of sense; Hans Ji creates his 'school' in the Radha Soami style but bases his 'teaching' on a populist Hindu narrative, a conservative Hindu/Sikh morality, a liberalism in the form of multi caste oratory and, an educational programme that offers a guaranteed path to Samahdi without any challenging prepatory programme. >For example, many scholars put the origin of the four Vedas at about 1800 � 2200 BC, while others put them back pre-3000 BC. Interestingly, those scholars that put them back the farthest seem to be Indian, perhaps trying to out-ancient the other civilizations.< �As far as the history of Yoga, Hinduism and other South Asian belief systems is concerned I am deeply sceptical of the dates that have been talked about by 'scholars'. Unfortunately there has been a long and unhappy circularity enjoined between archaeology and historical linguistics - a feature of both colonial and post colonial South Asian studies, albeit involving different academics with different agendas. Archaeologists have claimed dates based on linguistics, linguists have claimed dates based on archaeology which itself used dates derived from linguistics. Personally I wouldn't trust any interpretative archaeology of South Asia prior to 1980, and Historical Linguistics dealing with Indian languages, nothing before 1995. No one has yet securely identified an ancient 'Vedic Culture' and until that is achieved we don't even have a date for the development of the philosophy of the Vedas, let alone their creation as an oral tradition, or a date for when they were subsequently committed to writing. Clearly the Yoga sutras are an important departure, but they can not be separated from the Buddhist influence upon Hinduism, though they appear to predate the influence of tantra contained in the later 'manuals' of Yoga. During the subsequent one to two millennia, South Asian philosophies and beliefs have been made and remade according to cultural and economic change and it is unlikely that even if Hans Ji did adopt a previously existing and long lived tradition that it could be traced back from him, but I do think that it is possible to begin describing what religious and cultural references formed and informed Hans Ji's DLM and to be able to say what it was that Prem inherited. < Previous Recommend Current page Next re: comparisons to Hatha Yoga and Radha Soami Re: Re: Gheranda Samhita and the origin of the Rawat techniques -- Nik Top of thread Archive Posted by: Roark � 10/31/2006, 23:25:52 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin �Nik, > does Rawat really think so little of Hindu and Yoga philosophies that the ultimate goal of the Yogi is merely to attain "inner peace" ? I am not really in touch with the current iteration of Rawat�s teachings, but has it really been distilled to only talking about �inner peace�? > "if the Rawat techniques are the Samahdi techniques of the Gheranda Samhita, does Rawat really think so little of Hindu and Yoga philosophies that the ultimate goal of the Yogi is merely to attain "inner peace" ? �Samadhi�, in most garden-variety Hindu practices was to be the end result at the end of a succession of practices.� In the case of what you were writing about, which seems to be the original hatha yoga system as spelled out by the Goraksha Samhita, Gheranda Samhita, Hatha Yoga Pradapika and Siva Samhita, the progression of practices was 1) physical purification, 2) physical exercises (�asanas�). 3) more subtle gestures and positions (�mudras�), 4) restraining the mind from the senses, 5) breathe control and awareness, 6) contemplative concentration, and 7) �superconscious� states (�samadhi�), brought about by usually 6 techniques which include 3 that are facsimiles of Knowledge and a few others.� Hatha Yoga really took all of the moral / ethical elements out of the mix and basically tried to prepare the body/mind for long bouts of sitting by keeping it healthy, postured, limber and strong; and prepared the mind by learning how to focus and maintain concentration.� Throw in the end game meditation techniques and go to town.� It was a pretty practical approach, especially given that they probably didn�t have good dental alternatives, know much or about healthy eating and/or didn�t have many nutritional alternatives, etc, etc.� I mean, imagine trying to find a stream that you could wade into and self-inflict an enema (a hatha purification exercise) these days.�� A technique for cleaning teeth was actually a portion of codified Hatha Yoga at that time.� Anyway, I think the term �samadhi� is very maligned and misunderstood.� I�ve experienced some very radical samadhi states, a portion of these while I was a Premie.� One thing, being in samadhi is pretty much a temporary affair, a �state� of consciousness.� It�s just not feasible trying to stay in that state and live a functional life.� But that is not to say that a collection of these types of states cannot powerfully affect�one's day-to-day awareness, and for the better.� But one huge mistake was to think that you went into samadhi, and that was it, done deal, all suffering gone, inner peace from here on out, etc.� For that matter, another huge mistake to think there is such a thing as �peace of mind�, when the very nature of mind is curious restlessness!� �Peace of mind�, one of the great oxymorons!� I mean, we can box the mental functions�into a corner through meditation or even great sex, or skiing moguls or the like and have periods peace during which the �mind� is fully participatory, but to live an interactive human life, and expect to the mind to stay �peaceful� just isn�t realistic.� I am not talking about just a high degree of calmness, affectionate detachment or the like, here I am talking about that powerful, palpable, pervading experience of radiant peace. That isn�t to say that an experience of ongoing peace is not possible, just saying that relying on a peaceful mind to make that happen is futile. On the other hand, the analytical thought process that sees problems and comes up with solutions, etc is much like the digestive system, which can operate automatically and precisely outside of the field of our conscious awareness.� The thought process can even deliver great ideas up from its subliminal hiding place to a clear, open awareness, without that clear, open awareness even having to get it�s hands dirty.� Unless one enjoys working with the mind�s hands, which I guess is fun too. Another huge mistake was to think that powerful meditation experiences would automatically resolve all aspects of our personality and behavior.� For me, it took years back in the trenches of the human drama after the ashram to get even a functional level of integration going on.� Its as if�I thought myself into this mess and, in a way, I have to think my way out.� It is weird to see people with deeply �spiritual� perspectives�with so much pain and acting out in such pathological ways.� > That makes a lot of sense; Hans Ji creates his 'school' in the Radha Soami style Another salient comparison with Radha Soami relates to both sects' use of a secret initiation to the techniques of meditation and the vows, etc.� I remember so much secrecy swirling around Maharaji.� And, talk about a recipe for disaster.� Any time you want politics, destructive ego-based behavior and unhealthy competition, just throw in secrecy.� Then if the guru is supposed the ��Perfect Master�, it becomes a catastrophe.� I mean it is laughable, and at the same time pathetic and sad to see how many premies have based their sense of self and worth on the ego-balm of having special secrets, proximity to Rawat and the supposed specialness that they felt inured to them as the result. Actually, the overarching sentiment I seem to now have towards Maharaji and those that continue to follow is one of empathetic sadness, beyond any anger or frustration I once felt.� I mean, I think meditation is a wonderful thing, and this wonderful, malleable awareness we all have is to be fully explored, and even that the techniques of Knowledge are a great start towards self-actualization.� But what Rawat teaches should perhaps now just be a course at Omega Institute of the like, not a way of life under his guidance, and certainly not fixated on the highly dysfunctional world of Rawat and his �inner circle�. Anyway, I think I am rambling now. As to the idea of a �Vedic Culture�; I suggest to read the four original Vedas (very stoned out, tangled collections), spend some time in India, and read volumes I and 2 of �Indian Philosophy�; and with just that you can quickly see just how complex, varied and confusing the gamut of Indiology is, but also how wonderfully exploratory, analytical and expansive is the range of that unique culture.� It�s just a fucking mishmash for sure. Best, Mike Modified by Roark at Tue, Oct 31, 2006, 23:39:43 Previous Recommend Current page Next