Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks!
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Posted by:
chuck ®

10/16/2006, 09:29:43
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I appreciate the responses I've gotten; I've been in the woods all weekend and haven't gotten caught up yet. I was having an interesting conversation Sun. with a friend who uses 'ganga' as a 'sacrament', and I was staring at the same issues as when I look back at M: something I was totally dedicated to at the time, an experience that I think I learned and benefited from, but at what cost? And how many didn't get as cleanly out of the scene (drugs, or Devotion) as I did? I still have 'brain holes' from the dope I did--I get fuzzy and distractible and 'stoned' even though I haven't smoked weed in decades; do I also have holes in my head from M and K? Hmm...

So thanks for your inputs, and for helping me in the process of sorting out what is real and what BS for me in my own push toward reality.







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Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks!
Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks! -- chuck Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Axis ®

10/16/2006, 14:19:41
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Chuck, it takes about 2-3 years for your brain to clean itself.  Whatever damage, the brain creates new connections, eventually, so, what ever you are feeling IS related to the brainwashing effect. It happened to me and many others and I'm sure, some people here may be experiencing it and do not want to talk about it.

I am little short of time right now, cannot search for links now.  I am giving you here a couple of links, copy and paste them in the address bar.

What you are feeling is called DISASSOCIATION.  Cult members sometimes need professional help after exiting a cult, to understand what they are feeling and why, mostly,  to wake up the dormant brain part causing that "foggy" feelings.  The real problem is in the subconscient part of the mind.

I know that those premies that were in the cult for a long time still have at times feelings of fogginess, even after having received counseling. 

Be honest with the therapist  and explain the cult as much as possible. Have patience.  There are few therapists who understand the negative effects of cults.  Mainly, you are going to have to do all the work yourself, really.  My experience talking.

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/help/onesself/

If you are really having a very bad time, find somewhere in the link below, there an e-mail address where you can write and you can receive help for free.  They charge for their services but there exists a grant for those who cannot pay the fees.

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/ 

There are some book cited there.

Good luck! 

axis







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Re: freedomofmind.com
Re: Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks! -- Axis Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
snow-white ®

10/16/2006, 17:13:24
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I was reading about TM ex-follower (down the rabbit hole) and was amazed by the similarity.

"Note that according to TM doctrine there is no possible excuse for abandoning TM. If you feel great it's because you practice TM and you should therefore continue meditating. If you feel absolutely miserable it's because "Something good is happening!" (a major TM catch phrase) in that those bad old stresses are being released, you should therefore continue meditating. TM is working its wonders no matter what happens to you in your life!"

This is one of the most destructive aspects of a cult. I just remembered while reading this an analogy brought by maharaji for the confustion and lack of experience we felt most of the time, that when you dive in the water a lot of sand is stirred and the water becomes unclear and murky,  this confusion meant that knwoledge "was working" inside us and we had nothing to worry about just go on, while in fact meditating and being in the cult were the very reasons for our confusion and destress.

Thank you axis, this is an excellent link.







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Re: 'I'm confused' --pain and growth
Re: Re: freedomofmind.com -- snow-white Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
chuck ®

10/17/2006, 12:46:29
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this confusion meant that knwoledge "was working" inside us and we had nothing to worry about just go on, while in fact meditating and being in the cult were the very reasons for our confusion and distress.

The really wicked part of this (confusion means it's working) is that it's often true: the confusion I am sorting through now, with your help (after 20+ years of just not thinking about Maharaji) is because I'm going back to sort true from false, asking what really happened: it's not really confusion, just the disorder that happens in the process of working things out, housecleaning dust...like the disorder of remodeling a house, where there's a plan and an order to the chaos.

But to someone who is being manipulated, if you say 'change and growth are often accompanied by stress and confusion', as if it explains away their confusion, you can effectively shut down the growth process.

So there would be a difference in how you respond to the confusion--like now, in my initial explorations of ex-premiedom as a world (instead of just an inactive state), and in trying to decide what I am going to believe about M and my 'experience' with K, I am assuming there is a 'reality' somewhere in the dust or fog, and I am moving toward it.

But somehow, when we were told to just keep meditating and trusting the Lord, that the confusion was a sign that K was working, the clues that were there in the confusion were being missed...I remember M, during the ashram shutdown period, mocking premies who said 'I'm so confused'. The implication was that our confusion was our fault, just put the focus back on M and s s & m and it would eventually clear up. So quit whining.

I think the message I got about confusion 'evolved' as other things were changed: initially it was that some confusion is natural, it's like the shaking you go through when you fly through the sound barrier (an actual example that was used by M or initiators): it's OK to be confused.

Later, when the changes were causing some of the premies to flip out, ask too many questions...Ah. Too many questions...then it was time to make fun of our confusion, blame us for it--we must not be practicing, we were allowing room for doubt. Ah-

ha: When I'm confused, it means (I read it to mean) that the QUESTIONS ARE WORKING: keep asking them. Keep looking for what's NOT YET IN SIGHT. When I'm in a situation where the questions stop getting answers, when they provoke abuse/insults, then I know I'm in the danger zone. So (how I've functioned for years) confusion means one of two very clear things: keep investigating, or someone's lying: leave.

For me it was probably the buildup of unanswered questions that propelled me (gently and without trauma) out of M's world; for other exes it was the answers they started getting to some of the questions that made up their minds. In either case, the LACK of ANSWERS to questions was the sign that we should have picked up on--sooner or later DID pick up on.

Thanks all who read this far for your patience as I sort these things out in my mind (ha). Hopefully it's on point in some way for others.

Chuck 







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Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks!
Re: Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks! -- Axis Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
chuck ®

10/17/2006, 12:57:59
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Yeah, it's weird but you're right; it's been (about) 20 years since I last attended an event or tried to feel 'devotion', but as I read posts, and more stuff on EPO (Like John MacGregor's very insightful posts which are available on the site map) I re-experience some of the disorientation/dissociation of those who are now 'exiting'--it's like going BACK into a state of delusion that had faded away (or that I had drifted out of) and having to consciously find my way out of the labyrinth. It's kind of distracting (I read and post here when I have other work to do, can anyone relate?) but I've 1) been away from K long enough 2) been through enough other mind-f***ing things, that it's not too terribly distressing--just weird.

Also what's happening--and hence my gratitude to those who read and reply--is that going back and sorting out M is part of the on-going process of clearing out the daily fog. My experience of my LIFE is that there's a constant influx of BS from many sides, and from internally (hormones, memories, and innate stupidity? etc.) that I have to more or less constantly sort through; so I am like cleaning out a corner of my attic--the GMJ corner--and hopefully at the same time getting my head MORE IN THE PRESENT.

'Preciate your kindness

Chuck







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Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks!
Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks! -- chuck Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
T ®

10/16/2006, 15:20:19
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Hey Chuck

I've been enjoying your insightful posts and the various responses you have prompted.

Keep 'em coming...

T







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I echo T
Re: Re Your many responses to 'expremie questions': thanks! -- chuck Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Milarepa ®

10/17/2006, 03:48:05
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Hi Chuck,

Thanks for inspiring some very good posts since you came here. I`ve enjoyed the read.

I still have 'brain holes' from the dope I did--I get fuzzy and distractible and 'stoned' even though I haven't smoked weed in decades; do I also have holes in my head from M and K? Hmm...

A good question. Almost certainly.... I know I do. But I`ve since taken up potholing as a hobby. It is fascinating to climb into those holes and explore the deep dark caverns. Lots of gems to dig up and bring to the surface.

Dave






Modified by Milarepa at Tue, Oct 17, 2006, 03:49:42

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