Rawat Cult vs Trump Cult - Copied by Admin from the main forum |
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My ex wife of long ago was once a premie, but in recent years has become a Trumpkin. She went from one cult to another. I recently found out that she used one of her guns, a shotgun, and shot her boyfriend in the face and has been arrested for assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill. Fortunately, the man lived. As bad as Rawat is, he is small time and does not have much if any impact on society as a whole. The Trump cult on the other hand is something else. Those of us who have been in a cult have the possibility to look at it a little different than the average person. There are people that travel around the country and go to every one of Trump's rambling speech rallies, complete with music to inspire them. Reminds me of the old premie days when we travelled to programs all over the country to see Rawat. At least we were peaceful for the most part. These Trumpkins seem angry and anxious to kick some ass. A very different and more dangerous cult in my opinion. I think the current interest in cults by the media is because people are starting to look at the Trump phenomena as a cult, which in my opinion, it is. They are becoming cult curious. Our service to humanity as vocal cult survivors may be of more use than was originally intended. Cults after all, are not limited to the spiritual arena.
Modified by Admin at Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 21:07:33
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Yes. I agree. When Trump came first came to my attention, I was struck at how much he reminded me of Rawat!
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What do you mean by that? How does Trump strikingly remind you of Rawat? I mean they're both rich, they're both not shy about bragging at times, both have been guilty of infidelity at times and both have enjoyed power in different respects, one purporting to be the Lord of the Universe, the other actually becoming elected President.
But none of that, to me at least, is "striking". Perhaps you can elaborate and perhaps we too might be able to find some points of commonality.
Reason can and should triumph always, don't you think? Let's try it.
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Wow.
About the bigger picture, there do seem to be quite some fanatics among Trump supporters and the Q-Anon people specifically. While I am completely with you, this becomes politics though and thus can get heated very quickly.
I think the problem is more the use of the word cult. What does the word start to mean? Groups we don't like? Trump supporters would probably argue that Democrats are in a cult.
But what humans will pledge their loyalty to, give up their personal autonomy for and get worked up about to the point of violence is stunning.
I don't think that Trump sets himself as a cult leader in the same way as someone like Rawat does though. It is more that he knows how to press certain buttons and people project onto him a solution to their fears and frustrations. But somehow too easy really to just call it a cult. People make choices.
I guess I have heard people saying that they felt duped by the movement around Trump, especially leading up to the Capital riots. Complicated.
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I would disagree that Trump is about politics. It is about a charismatic leader. The democrats don't have any charismatic leaders that I am aware of. The 2 major parties have different political agendas to be sure, but I stand by my opinion that a cult can exist in a political arena as well as in business and spiritual arenas. And Trump is a charismatic leader who has a very vocal following who are as defensive of their leader being criticized as premies are of Rawat. Furthermore there are probably 30 Million of them armed to the teeth ready for the next time their leader calls on them to fight for him. We are in a very dangerous time in America.I am not politically inclined myself, but have been keeping a curious eye on Trump as he seems to copy a lot of Rawat's techniques though not his content. He does not present himself as a cult leader, but neither does Rawat. Since cult has a negative connotation, nobody presents themselves to be a cult leader. We all denied we were in a cult until we got out. There are some funny comedians who interview and post on youtube their interactions with Trump supporters. They remind me of premies to be honest. I also have friends and relatives who will not talk to me because I criticized Trump out loud and not in a hostile way. Their immediate response is that I am a liberal democrat. In fact I am a registered Republican since I don't like Democrats policies in many areas.
Modified by swimming free at Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 13:05:28
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I agree. Sure, it might smell like politics, but I really think that because of my own cult involvement that I can understand more than the never-a-cult-member how the MAGA cult thinks. The parallels are very apparent, but you need to have the experience we had to really understand how it is to be locked into so much denial of reality.
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Trump is actually a politician who was elected and served as the President of the United States
Rawat is a cult leader who was never the incarnation of God or Lord of the Universe
There is a rather strong difference between believing that Trump should be re-elected and believing anything that Rawat says.
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Thank you for being such a great host to us when we visited you in Australia way back when. You're always welcome here if you ever want to see our part of the world.
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Drek, I got banned because of you or, more accurately, because I broke John's rule then that we don't address each other. That rule arose from lots of arguments where we couldn't have any kind of civil discussion together.
But that doesn't have to be, does it? We were friends once. You visited us too and we saw you in Seattle and San Fransisco so long ago.
Do you think that we could possibly try to discuss this cult issue, Trump - is he or isn't he -- civilly now, being somewhat older and all that?
I hope so.
Cheers to you too
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No, Jim. We're not going to discuss anything together here.
And I really regret that we were once 'friends'.
You seem to have forgotten that you doxxed me here and that is unforgivable.
As a target of premies, I've had my employers contacted in efforts to have me fired and lose my job and my livelihood.
And I certainly don't want to get doxxed by you again and your really crazy Trump cult buddies take notice of me.
Jim, you're still in a cult. Your thinking and obsessions are cult-like whether it's Maharaji at one time, or your whole Anti-Muslim crusade and now your love of the orange clown, Trump.
Adios and have fun acting like a total idiot here again.
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You’re ridiculous. Oh well ….
Modified by Jim at Fri, Apr 19, 2024, 17:53:39
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I also have friends and relatives who will not talk to me because I criticized Trump out loud and not in a hostile way. I mean, really now, what did you say? In view of all that Trump-hatred that flies off the tip of your fingers, it's kind of hard to imagine.
Modified by Jim at Mon, Apr 22, 2024, 20:51:58
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Hi Dan,
Do you think that you have a pretty good understanding of the Capitol riot (not sure where you get the plural from)? I'm guessing that there are some facts that would startle you and seriously change your opinion some.
The incredible dishonesty of the J6 committee and the media compliance is a good starting point. Did you see the new National Guard whistleblowers' testimony Wednesday? What do you think or know about the agent provocateurs spiking the football, so to speak? What do you know or think about the pipe bombs?
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I can't agree with your comparison. I think these days the word 'cult' is becoming defined so widely that it is in danger of losing its meaning. My 1950 edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary, that I won as a prize in school and have kept for 64 years, defines cult as "a system of religious worship."
However, I am not going to join the cult of people who believe Trumpism is not a cult and attack those in the cult of people who believe Trumpism is a cult.
That's certainly a shame about your ex-wife but I don't think I can reasonably blame that on her extra years of involvement in the Rawati$m cult so I'll leave her off the Prem Rawat Bio site.
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I just googled a question - 'does Trump believe in Christianity' and there are a lot of hits saying varied things and it seems there is a schism amongst the Christians as to whether he is enough of a Christian or not but it is the Evangelicals who support Him the most.
And there were lots of articles saying he is infusing Christianity into the way he preaches to the crowd. That there are plenty of people who believe God wants him to rule on Earth.
Not quite sure what it does to the word cult but let's not forget the conspiracy theorists who believe, well I've heard one say Trump has been sent by God. At one stage they were so pro Trump, now they are still pro but quieter on the topic so I think that's a brand strengthening exercise, and Trump will soon want them back on board trumpeting his Glory.
My 1964 edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary has added to the 1950 definition with 'devotion or homage to person or thing (esp derogatory of transient fad)'
I remember that attitude in our parent's generation - everything was a fad that wasn't C of E.
and goodness the latin base, along with cultivate it's - inhabit till worship. sounds like a bit of earth worship going on here.
Let's leave the word cult out of this, I like it too much now.
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It's not a conspiracy if they're talking about it publicly. A conspiracy has to be secret.
The 1950 edition had "devotion or homage to person or thing" but not (esp derogatory of transient fad)
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I could easily be wrong about this but I think it's called conspiracy theory group not because it's secret but because they believe all the conspiracy theories though obviously it's gone a long way beyond the 'Jews are secretly ruling the world' theory, not that they don't still believe that.
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I appreciate your disagreement prembio, but consider that Trump is selling his bibles complete with copies of the US constitution and pledge of allegiance. He is selling it for $60 and claiming it is the only bible endorsed by him.so there is a little religion now being mixed in.Also revisionism is in full speed ahead for Trump. The convicted Jan 6 participants are being referred to by Trump and his sycophants as hostages. I saw the riot unfold from beginning to end on TV including the condemnations by all senior Republican leaders. This revisionism that has been adopted by Trump and his supporters reminds me of Rawat’s denial of his Lord of the universe days and its acceptance by the premies. I don’t think Trump started out as a cult leader. I don’t think he was one in2016 when he ran for president. I didn’t even think about it then when I voted for him But he has been evolving into a cult leader in my opinion. I don’t think all of his voters are cult members. I would say that the 25 percent of Republicans that say they would vote for him even if he is convicted of multiple felonies are certainly exhibiting cult like loyalty. These observations and many others lead me to point out the similarities of Trump and Rawat. Furthermore, I have actually met and spent time with both Rawat and Trump. The susceptibility of human beings to cult or cult like behavior is interesting to me in light of the fact that I was trapped in it myself for so many years.
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You met both, and only Prem hosted his guest in the garage.(I agree with your reply btw)
Did you see my Venn Diagram?
Modified by Susan at Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 22:33:31
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Hi Susan. I have not seen your venn diagram. I don’t know where it is.On another note, the recent public revelations by Hans Rawat are heartbreaking. What a mess. I wish him and his wife and all other victims well
Modified by Swimming free at Sat, Apr 13, 2024, 06:31:28
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I made it many months, to a year ago.I can’t get it to post. I think maybe Prem Bio has it and knows how to format here. Also if you check messenger there is a message with it from susiewasapremie. Not all use messenger.
Yes, it is very sad. Seems that the folks who insisted that a. and I were being unfair because one child abuser a long time ago was such an unfair way to paint their fine organization - were …. self serving ? Did the people in the organization consider following their whistleblower and conflict of interest policies? Was the idea that children could be at risk just simply dismissed as impossible because this was just impossible because it was the Master?
Modified by Susan at Sat, Apr 13, 2024, 07:59:21
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One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I didn't pay much attention to Jan 6th but the people breaking into the Capitol did believe they were freedom fighters. One woman's criminal is another's hostage.
They say they will vote for him despite any convictions because they believe the accusations are false and based on political chicanery. It would be a cult if they believed he was guilty of a crime. I have no convictions in this myself, its purely interest in the beliefs and the different vocabulary.
I did watch all the impeachment sittings televised in Australia. It seemed to me that Pelosi and Schiff could be considered cult members at the time or complete incompetents.
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Hi Susan,
Mr. Langone's list of characteristics associated with cultic groups is almost a perfect match for the Prem Rawat cult. I counted fourteen out of fifteen matches. (To be fair, one of the fourteen matches was only true during the ashram era.)
He did, however, overlook one of the most telling characteristics:
• The group denies that any of the characteristics associated with cultic groups applies to them. Often, such denials are backed by claims that any similarities to such characteristics are wrongly perceived. The groups' attempts at explaining why the characteristics do not apply to them and why any similarities are wrongly perceived is a source of great amusement to objective observers.
Modified by lakeshore at Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 20:46:40
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So what are you saying? That objecting to the outrageously heavy stigmatic accusation of being in a cult is itself proof of its fair application? Isn't that classic witch-drowning?
Did you ever watch my debate with Steve Hassan from four years ago over his "The Cult of Trump" book? What did you think of it? Do you think he was fair, honest and reasonable? Was I?
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https://www.ranker.com/list/ways-the-king-james-bible-is-wrong/genevieve-carlton
This article highlights some of the major problems with King James version of the bible. It was in large part political. Read the section on witches. King James had a special hatred of witches. A Hebrew word for chemists/poisoners was mis translated to witches. How many innocent herbalists were murdered due to that one word!
Trump adding the US Constitution and the US pledge of allegiance to "his" Bible further raises my hackles as the rise of Christian Racist fascists nationalism takes an increasingly large segment of the GOP. It is, IMO, clearly acting as a cult. Look up the idealized superhero images being generated by the MAGA cult. The red hats, gold sneakers and now Trump endorsed Bibles have gotten me frightened and thinking about updating my US Passport. There is a fevered sickness in this country. Look, I have respect for conservative thought that is not twisted by oligarch money, religion or racism. I will say that having been a cult member has helped me recognize tRump as a cult leader of much more frightening proportions!
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What do you mean by saying that Trump has "add[ed] the US Constitution and the US pledge of allegiance to "his" Bible"?
You seem to have a very rabid and I must say ugly caricatured view of a whole lot of Americans. Why exactly? Because some are Christian? Do you express that same fervent hostility to the UK's exploding (NPI) Muslim population?
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First, that is terribly traumatic even if it is your ex. I very casually knew victims and perpetrator in a family annihilation murder suicide, and this sort of violence such a ripple effect. I am so sorry for all involved.
I have a lot of thoughts about Trump, and I myself, find him terrifying, and I think he has many qualities of a cult leader, and many of his followers treat him as a cult leader. Steven Hassan wrote the Cult of Trump. Did you know that a former premie debated Steve Hassan about it?
https://freedomofmind.com/jim-heller-and-steven-hassan-debate-the-cult-of-trump/
That aside...
I think not all people who support Trump treat him as a cult leader. I think its way more complex. Some of the single issue voters support him because he supports their issue... lots of reasons that I may really have trouble comprehending. I do admire the conservatives who reject Trump though, even if I disagree with the issue that they are devoted to, just as I have liberals who don't just lockstep give a pass to the misbehaviors of people who also support their policies. I can't stand hypocrisy and I notice when people put principle and ethics above self interest.
I think social media has played a huge role in creating the us vs them mentality. I miss a world where people can debate ideas and maintain a human connection. It's gotten so much worse. Still, I have lost or decided to not interact with people who try to "convert" me to Trump. That, is cult like. But others, I can interact with fine and respect if neither one of us is trying to "save" the other. I guess, it depends?
With premies, I could buy the people at the very fringes of it, who don't get very involved, maybe are not cult members, but maybe not really possible. You have to ignore a LOT and from what I understand, to get Knowledge and the premie only type events it's still very much about Prem Rawat and still a lot of Master and crap. You would have to be SOOO far at periphery and ignorant, dabbling in it, to not be in a cult.
Trump? Obviously, Q anon and most if not all of Jan 6 insurrectionists is cult, IMO. But not all who vote for him are fanatics, and I don't know how the draw the line so clearly.
I think though, on the forum, the topic while having overlap, can destroy the discussion. On Susiewasapremie, some folks with very different political leanings than mine have been incredibly helpful and kind, so that's been a lesson, and maybe a little hopeful for me. That people can still treat each other respectfully, and see this very differently. Some, not all.
I agree with you Swimming Free about who is the bigger danger to the world. And I agree it's never been more important to understand cults.
I just have noted lately that it's not entirely analogous.
On the other hand, cult "hopping" is a very real phenomenon.
On the Facebook "Critical discussion about Prem Rawat" we decided to make it against the rules to talk about Trump, vaccines, health cures, politics generally. But someone, actually with a very different view from me, more than one really, made points about how her views on politics were her, drip, even if she didn't use the word. So the comment seemed so relevant.
It's just hard. Life is one big "it depends"... but also, sometimes, we have to stand up. And we may be surprised by who stands beside us?
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I've tried to discuss this with you elsewhere and you invaraibly refused. Then, once, when I saw you make a very insulting reference to people whom you knew thought like me in some respects, I insulted you privately and for that I apologize. I was still blocked from the forum then but I was reading from time to time and I assumed, rightly or not, that that forum reference which I could not reply to was an oblique goading and got angry.
Again, I apologize for that. We've been friends before Susan. You visited us once so long ago. I'm sorry I insulted you -- even if I think you're kind of insulting me here.
So that debate with Hassan, what do you think of it now four years later? I watched it again for the first time in years (it's great at 1.5 speed) and noticed how Steve blatantly lied at one point. He denied that he argued in the book that Mueller had found Trump colluded with Russia but he most certainly did. I can find the reference if you like. In the debate, he claimed that he only argued that Mueller made a tentative call on obstruction which was true and I didn't say otherwise. But Mueller also concluded -- as was obvious to anyone who knew the true story -- that there was no such collusion. Hassan argued otherwise. I've invited him to debate me again four years later and see how well our earlier views have held up and why but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.
I say that the whole world has gone mad on race and gender. You want cults, there you go. Not just the activists or poor kids caught up in the queer hysteria themselves but the supposedly sober, science and reason-based academic, medical and other scientific institutions. They've gone mad or, to the extent that members don't go along with it all, they're not jumping off the clown cars so much as trying to quietly take a seat inside where no one can see them.
You want sexual abuse? How about an ideology that inherently rejects the notion of childhood innocence itself, that countenances pedophilia and is more than happy to condone kids destroying their sexual identities for life on a whim no more meaningful than the explosion of teenage furries:
https://www.abc4.com/news/wasatch-front/utah-student-furry-protest/
Yes, Rawat bad. I get it. He's an asshole and should be stopped if and however possible within the law. For sure.
But this other stuff is a much, much bigger concern and former actual cult members like us have a unique wisdom to offer, if we chose, to those truly interested in the captured mind phenomenon.
Cheers,
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How I recall it
First time- you said you were suprisingly reading Ayn Rand… and I sent this article…
You replied by saying something along the lines of “your silly Jagdeo problem and not that much happened to you anyway”
Below the belt. You knew damn well I every single time said I was lucky because I basically got away compared to the other victims. You knew how unbelievably mean it was to say that to me.
You apologized. Well. No excuses. But hard to comprehend what your goal was but to hurt me. I was warned.
Second time- appeal to our old friendship. So I gave you another chance. I told you and told you I didn’t want to talk about politics or Trump. You just would not stop. As I recall, seeing my reference to people who won’t stop, and guess what I hate it when liberals won’t stop either, and rightfully thinking I meant you ( among other people) … your text ended with “f*** you” or was it “f*** off”
I am not friends with people who treat me like this.
Leave me alone. Please.
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I don’t think I ever said that to you about Jagdeo and looking back through our texts see nothing of the sort. What I did say was that the larger cultification of kids is a much larger issue.
But fine. I won’t.
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2016 about. If you want I will find it. If you keep yours you will find it. And the apology. You write a very no excuses apology. But I can't set myself up for more. That would be foolish.
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Yeah, find it. I’ll look too.
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I can find what I sent but not your reply or your apology. I clearly remember this. The Jagdeo remark was at the end of a bunch of stuff. You used to write on more than one email and texted from you or Laurie too. I suspect you would have told Laurie about this. I do think you felt bad about it. The apology made that clear. I know I told a bunch of the ex premies when it happened.
But I do have a date- Tue, Apr 11, 2017 to narrow it down.
You sent the email that ended with the Jagdeo insult very late at night. I am pretty sure it was an email as was the apology. The apology came the next morning.
My point is, more than once, you crossed a line with me and got mean.
Modified by Susan at Fri, Apr 19, 2024, 18:45:55
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I checked and there's nothing, only some friendly conversation between us that day. I have only had and used one email from the time I got on Shaw which goes back to the turn of the century. How can you have a specific date but not the email? I can see our exchange otherwise that day, like I said nothing but friendly. So what gives?
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I think it got deleted. It was a response to the Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand article conversation. I can't find it. I can find me referencing it in emails to others. Not the original. I don't think it's worth some forensic reconstruction. Something like that was said, the exact words I don't recall, and you wrote a very impressive apology letter the next day. It was definitely soon after that date. The apology letter, I recall thinking, this must be how lawyers tell people to apologize, it was good, no excuses, no you provoked me, nothing like that. Rarely seen someone apologize so well.
So, I guess unless you really want more proof, you will have to just believe me.
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Right, got it. So now I'm an asshole because I'm a serial apologizer. Must be the spirit of Trump in me -- oh wait, he's the other kind of asshole, the ones that never apologize for anything.
Good work. Whatever the case, I do note that you have nothing at all to apologize for, never have and never will.
Yet, do you admit that you were referring to me when you wrote:
It’s also just vaguely reminiscent of your annoying friend, colleague, neighbor or internet troll that doesn’t give a shit you have told them a zillion times you don’t want to hear about wokism, essential oils, Jesus or whatever the f*** you avoid them because they won’t shut up about their great discovery and unique knowledge they must share with the rest of the world.
We had been communicating then again about Rawat but not just and I had tried to talk with you about the broader cultural landscape, in particular wokism, but you weren't having it. You knew that I looked at the forum from time to time and also knew I couldn't respond.
Modified by Jim at Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 13:11:30
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I did mean you when I wrote that as you say, in regard to Wokism specifically, but not only you. I didn't, as should be clear, only mean you. You haven't tried to sell me essential oils, Amway, Herbalife, Jesus or Mormonism. Nor are you the only person I can think of re: Wokism.
I don't believe I do owe you any apology for that, banned or not. It was clear from our conversation how clearly I asked you to stop trying to draw me in to political discourse. Even what you have posted here supports that.
I do think it's far more baiting that you would say to me "I do note that you have nothing at all to apologize for, never have and never will."
Modified by Susan at Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 14:41:24
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Obviously, you didn't mean only me with your extended scorn targets but, as you acknowledge, you were specifically referring to me and with zero respect as if I'm just some crank pushing the most ridiculous scam belief system or perhaps worse, pyramid marketing scheme.
Did you think I'd see it? How did you think I'd react? You knew I couldn't reply on the forum so what did you expect? Not even in a response -- maybe you thought I wouldn't respond to you at all -- but how it would make me feel?
Who cares?
We all have feelings, Susan, even us assholes.
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This thread has been copied from the main Rawat forum. Feel free to discuss Trump or anything else here
Thanks,
Admin
Modified by Admin at Wed, Apr 17, 2024, 21:06:48
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Sorry to have gone outside the bounds of the forum. Feel free to delete this thread.
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I was surprised to see JHB's post, it's not like we haven't discussed the similarities lots of times before.
But now I'm not surprised, I just went and checked and see there is an election coming up in the States so I expect it has become very intense. wishing your country lots of good luck.
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Yes, I can understand that. Scary for us all but how much more so it must be in your own country.
Modified by lesley at Mon, Apr 15, 2024, 11:08:56
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I completely and wholeheartedly agree it is a good idea to have T***p be an off limits topic here.
I think JHB made it clear, he understands why people make comparisons, without agreeing or disagreeing with the conclusions they draw.
I don't myself believe he needs to delete the whole thread. But if he did I would get it too. It didn't get that bad. But the potential to derail the Forum is so great with the topic that I think it's a great rule. I was just happy to see a post from you, and I have made posts in past like that, the Venn diagram I posted awhile ago, but I have come to really agree that it's just not good for the Forum to discuss him. As John said, there are plenty of other places to do that.
And this is a rare place where info about Prem Rawat can be discussed, and I would hate to have it spammed with how heated the other topic gets.
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So - then why don't you move the whole thread over to the Non-Rawat Forum?
(if this it technically possible, that is)
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
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Thank you! For those of you here on the Forum not in the US, the rise of Fascism in the US is frightening. His cult followers treat him like he is a god. They project all of their grievances onto him and he plays that up to the hilt. They are actively trying to bring about the Apocalypse in order to force Jesus to return.I lived in the South for 39 years. I lived near Asheville, NC, a very liberal, artsy small mountain city. As the rise of the violent Right progressed, I saw a big change. I lived outside the city and it is an entirely different culture. I began seeing Confederate flags everywhere and Trump flags and bumper stickers and signs all over. Giant trucks with giant flags, men in grocery store with guns on their hips and scowling faces. A year ago next week I got rid of all my possessions, except my cat and what I could fit into my car, and moved to Philadelphia PA. Philly has gotten a lot of press on Fox news as being a crime city. I am careful about what neighborhoods I go to, but I feel safer here than in the red neck South! Maybe it is just me, but I love living in a multicultural neighborhood.
Check out the work of Greg Palast. He has videos on YouTube. He has done extensive work on researching GOP voter suppression in Georgia and Florida and how the GOP is using this as a model nationwide.
Thom Hartmann has a great radio show of FREE SPEECH TV at Noon EST M-F. freespeechtv.org.
Also, check out PROJECT 2025! It is the Fundamentals plan to take over society.
Karen K
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Do you really feel safer in Philadelphia than you did in Asheville? We spent a night there when we drove through the south about ten year ago. The town was cute and Biltmore was stunning. But I see that the crime has gone through the roof there:
https://wlos.com/news/local/study-ranks-asheville-in-top-10-of-most-violent-cities-in-america
But it also seems concentrated mainly amongst blacks. Not whites (i.e. big bad Trump supporters) but blacks attacking blacks. Kind of like Philly that way, isn't it?
So why? What's happening in the world to cause this? And how can you blame Trump for it? Maybe there's some other social and cultural phenomena at play?
Care to talk about it?
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In a word, yes. I an very careful what neighborhoods I walk in in Philadelphia. I don't walk after dark, but I never did in Asheville either. What I am referring to is living in Waynesville, 30 miles West of Asheville, a small town, not feeling safe in grocery stores where visibly angry armed red necks were glaring at everyone as they shopped for groceries. The rural and small towns in the Mountains have a long history of being rebels. When Mom and Dad moved to Asheville in the 1980's, they were warned not to go to Madison County, "Bloody Madison" as they would be shot at as being "Revenurers." In exploring back roads outside Waynesville alone, I would feel I was in the film Deliverance. There are small remote communities like Sodom Laurel in Madison Co, where it was historically so isolated there was a fair amount of incest! I remember another remote community where the folks there all had these narrow "possum" faces. I tell you, it is another world. And EVERYONE has a shotgun! BTW, Deliverance was filmed near where I lived. I met this really sweet man that had a booth at Uncle Bill's Flea Market. He was telling me how much he missed his late wife, while petting his pet squirrel. I noticed an old poster of the Deliverance. He was in that poster, the guy with no teeth that was chasing Bert Reynolds and buddies. Cowboy Coward was a local star. I would see him at the grocery store, in a wheel chair, with his pet squirrel! Sadly he was killed in a car crash last year. Much of the Mountain Southern Appalachian culture goes back hundreds of years. I owned a women's fitness center. I was reading Cold Mountain and began to ask how many of these women were related to the main character? About half of them had In man's in their family tree. The locals go back at least 150 years or more. I really loved those women, but they would only let you get but so close.
https://avlwatchdog.org/41929-2/
https://mountainx.com/news/from-asheville-watchdog-merchants-describe-downtown-ashevilles-descent-into-squalor-and-lawlessness/
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That’s incredible. All of it. Thanks for explaining it. I had lunch with Ned Beatty once when I lived in LA and, rather than talk about Deliverance, we discussed meditation. He was quite into TM, I’d already walked.
But what does any of that Appalachia culture have to do with Trump?
Modified by Jim at Fri, Apr 19, 2024, 22:31:48
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They have wrapped themselves in Trump flags, the "Lost Cause," (STILL can't accept they lost the Civil War), and think he is bringing Jesus back! BTW, I have a Jewish last name. I was raised Unitarian, but my Dad's family was Jewish. The rise in antisemitism in the US is frightening and living in a culture where there is a Southern Baptist church on every corner where preachers scream hatred , bigotry and End Times every Sunday makes my hair stand on end! In Philadelphia, no one blinks an eye at the name Kirschbaum! I never have anyone tell me, "I wouldn't even try to pronounce your last name!" Asheville lost its charm for me and the rents rival San Francisco! Nothing I could afford. The small towns always made me feel like an outsider. It is pretty sad.
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It’s true that antisemitism is surging but it’s mainly a leftist development for sure. Like here:
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MTG and Jewish Space Lasers.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mtg-space-lasers/
Not just the lefties.
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This is a triviality. What is not trivial is that first Obama and now Biden have allowed Iran to threaten to destroy Israel and Biden freeing up billions for Tehran gave them the wherewithal to fund October 7th. The most vocal antisemites in the Dems get no pushback in the media or the party.
I guess Biden shared one common goal with the Muslim radicals in Iran and throughout the world -- none of them were happy about the Abrahamic Accord.
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Obviously, I disagree with you top to bottom. Care to discuss this with me? I think you're entrapped in a media-generated concoction that's been percolating and self-adjusting for the last nine years at least and that it's tricked you, neutralized your common sense and better judgement and alike, essentially much of the kind of capture or thought control we classically associate with, you got it, cult-like thinking.
But then you presumably must think likewise of me.
So how about we discuss this, explore our opinions and how we arrived at them, their strengths and weaknesses and see if we might possibly persuade or be persuaded one way or the other?
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