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Just another little somethin' somethin' in Australia. The cops say it wasn't terrorism though. Does that make sense? Is this a big deal? See, to me, it is. It's a VERY VERY VERY BIG DEAL. What do you think?
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/australia-muslim-screaming-allahu-akbar-plows-car-into-pedestrians-cops-say-not-terror-related
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It is what it is. Horrible. You don't have to reply for my sake. Sad ..
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hmmm. well it's certainly a very big deal for the people he plowed into and their families. It's a bother for all of us but I'm not sure that that's what you mean.
So far on the news here, as is normal, we don't know the ethnicity of the man involved. We have been told by the police that it is not terrorism related, that they have arrested the man and are not looking for anybody else. They say he has drug issues and mental health issues and had been arrested for those only a week ago. Ah, now we're hearing he has a long history of family violence. There's clear enough footage of him driving the car to see he is an Arab. And we are told that he had come to the attention of the police a few days before - that sounds terrorism related.
I'd like to know more before making much comment.
But I will say I think it's a grey area, a which came first the chicken or the egg, the religious sentiment or the mental instability - like the man who took hostage the Lindt Cafe a couple of years ago, he too had been arrested just shortly beforehand, he too was known to have mental health issues.
So yes the muslim religion with it's praise for suicidal violence doesn't seem like a good idea, does it.
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Driven insane by the cognitive dissonance caused by the belief system of their religion. Maybe they function reasonably well when amongst people of the same culture, in their own countries.....but everything falls apart when they try to cope in a relatively free society.
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There's at least one eyewitness who claims that he was shouting out "A**** A*****!" when he was doing donuts and he apparently once called himself a Kurdish Islamic Turk or something. But he may well be only tainted by Islam. Small difference for the victims.
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I wonder what they think this can accomplish?
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/australia-police-ask-reporter-to-take-down-video-of-witness-saying-car-attacker-was-screaming-allahu-akbar
Maybe buddy didn't actually say this and the witness is wrong. Or, if he did, maybe he was just kind of kidding, only pretending to be a Muslim. That's possible.
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I think the idea is that you don't incite racial violence because it is all to easy and the next thing you know the streets are full of young men hurling beer bottles and knives along with the insults.
So we have terrorism as a separate category. People are encouraged to dob in a terrorist. And that seems to be working quite well, they do catch quite a few young men before they actually do anything.
From what I saw on the video footage as the car was moving, the man was leaning out of the drivers window waving his arms and yelling. couldn't hear what. he didn't look like he was planning to suicide and ended up being shot in the arm and arrested, we saw a shot of him on the ground, it did not look like fun. I don't think they showed the bits where he was plowing into people, they showed upturned prams and suchlike.
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I dunno Lexy - I like your idea. Being in a relatively free society has to be having an effect but aren't they here in the first place because everything has fallen apart where they came from?
Human beings are evolving, that's what we do like everything else that lives. I tend to think that a young man who is prepared to run over others in order to express his feelings has taken generations to develop.
I dunno if I dare say what I think about the nature of religion! oh okay - the impulse behind it is the deepest most sacred impulse we have. It's our voluntary imperative. If we hadn't developed differently we'd all be born out of reverence for it. We'd never have built churches and even if we were in the middle of a huge barney over territory, everyone would make way for the love to happen.
As it is we had the English and German soldiers having a truce for Christmas in World War One.
Yes we need constraints but it has to be a voluntary impulse to accept them or it's always going to be bound for trouble.
The way we are, at best, in any country the people have a troubled relationship with their government because it's not being fair to them. Returning soldiers get treated well tho and it can get pretty good as we baby boomers know but right now here in Australia the topic that has come up is that the aborigines who had become soldiers were - oh god I find this hard to believe it's so remarkably insulting - but yes all the returning soldiers who applied for them were given land grants except for the aborigines, they were refused. Sick isn't it. Don't tell me that's going away in a hurry.
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The ones I was talking about were here mostly to learn English...or in one case, to chaperone his daughter who was learning English ( that Saudi Father ended up stabbing his daughter to death on a street in my seaside town a couple of years ago ). He was judged to be schizophrenic ....but had become angry when he thought his late teenage daughter had been seeing a man.
The other definitely muslim related stabbing was about six years ago when one of my students ( Spanish) was killed and decapitated by a converted muslim ( American...but converted at university in London ). He was judged to be schizophrenic and incarcerated in Broadmoor Prison.....no mention was made in the newspapers about his constant praying to allah or that he was a muslim.....my students told me.
Everything hasn't fallen apart in all muslim countries and many come to the UK to study or to "grow up". Their families send them.Many like the freedom and would stay if they could....or if they didn't miss their families too much. Some find clever excuses to stay....they are gay ( when they aren't really )or some other invented story.
A guy who runs people over on purpose is a fanatic.
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Are you saying you think the man did it out of religious fanaticism? Doesn't look like it. I thought he looked gay actually. He looked like he's emotionally disturbed, high sense of entitlement, not that smart.
Yeah, we all have our own perspective on it. My bridge teacher Pat spent a lot of time in the Middle East. She was saying the Arabs have a deep hatred of Christians but she was most determined that it isn't because of their religion, it's because they want to be the leaders but we are more efficient than them, she reckons.
Modified by lesley at Sun, Jan 22, 2017, 13:56:37
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Funny to hear you and Pat, your bridge teacher, speculating as to why the Arabs have a deep hatred of Christians when one of the foundational myths of Islam is that Christians are following the Bible which is, for all intents and purposes, really nothing more than a Satanic Koran. But there you ladies are, figuring it all out ....
Come on, Lesley.
Modified by Jim at Sun, Jan 22, 2017, 18:40:33
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my point was that our experiences mean we pick up on different things. Pat was making valid comment from what she experienced during the time she was living in the Middle East.
Sure their religion has shaped who they are, I'm not disputing that, but they have shaped their religion. That's Pat's point.
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I read what you said. She speculated as to why they hated Christians so and I'm saying she's wrong as are you if you agree. Nothing will ever replace your actually reading what Islam actually says on the subject. Do you think your teacher has?
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okay here I am. 
Surely you don't believe that everything was just fine until Mohammed came along? all nice Arabic men with happy women?
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First, of course that's an inane question. Sorry but you know that. Nothing's ever been "just fine" anywhere, let alone in 7th century Arabia. But there was a fairly easy-going plurality of religions and superstitions in Mecca. Muhammad changed that and when he roared back into town as a conquering dictator it reminds me more of Hitler in Vienna than anything else.
But the main thing you miss is that Islam codified and froze in time serious 7th century prejudices and limitations that it can't shake off 1400 years later.
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of course it's not bigley
even when you're making words up, there are rules!
sorry to be such a racist and all that but there was a time when Christianity was spread to the heathens. It has resulted in me having the experience of listening to an aboriginal congregation singing in their Christian church and my goodness it is a different sound to the European church singing, which can be very beautiful but this was both wilder and more gentle - utterly delightful.
Point resurrected.
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I enjoyed my altar boy time too, but please don't go back L . I need your awareness of birdy pies.
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