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Lots of good material there for a little satire, I should think:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9204/germany-migrant-rape-outrage
**************
Modified by Jim at Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 14:48:34
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Your courts are now condoning Muslim arson attacks against synagogues. Can you believe it? https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/german-court-gives-muslims-who-attacked-synagogue-suspended-sentences-says-attack-justified
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yes, I knew about, it's crazy, they only got suspended sentences.
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I get the satire, which is boringly obvious as its anti Americanism goes back a long way before Trump. Now he's here, the aboriginal yahoo in full pomp & glory, I expect these types are just loving the prospect. They had to tone it down a bit with a black man in the White House, but from now on in...let it rip.
Wearing cowboy hats & playing rhythm & blues based music, they seem completely oblivious to the fact that for good or ill, culturally speaking, they have become Americans too. Much more than your average German I'm guessing, so I don't see the 'moral' just the agitprop.
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You are right with the agitprop. I just exspected some reaction, I'm myself not convinced from this style of the video.
Anyway here in Germany we are americanized, or anglophil spoiled, most lyrics from songs are not in the german language, cause the Nazis spoiled our cultur and after the war we adapted more the american lifestyle in many ways.
I grew up in a town full with american soldiers and we as kids and youngsters liked them cause they had helped to end the war and free us from the Nazis. Anyway we loved the music and the freedom they brought with, but with the killing ot Kennedy and the Vietnam war, Nixon etc. we started to see anohter face of America.
There are things about nearly every nation to make jokes about, that does not mean, that there is not somekind of respect too.
wolfie
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Wolfie, how do you feel about over 50,000 troops still in Germany, 70 + years after the war? Nothing unique, they have troops in over 150 countries.
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So far, they are here to help to secure political freedom it's okay for me. I personally would prefer that Europ has an own strong army, so far Europ has no imperalistic goals. The bad thing is, that America has imperalistic goals and we are always a little scared that we get involved some day.
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Secure political freedom? An Occupying force that stays 70 years? I agree that Euro should be better able to defend itself. Maybe those US troops can move to Estonia to quell any uprisings that may occur from the locals when Putin and Trump make some deals. Growing up in the US , youth unemployment was high, thus a several buddies joined the army. All came back alcoholics, 1/2 are dead and it's kinda sad.
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Israel captured the West Bank in '67 in a defensive war. They kept it as would anyone. The UN then decided that they shouldn't, simply making up special rules that don't seem to apply to anyone but them Jews. Jordan relinquished any claim on the West Bank and the Palestinians, who were only invented by the KGB in the sixties, obviously have no claim to the territory either. Israel has offered large parts of this land in exchange for peace several times now but it's still theirs regardless. The Palestinians have rejected all proposed compromises ever since because, let's be honest, Jews would never be allowed to take back some of the land that Allah claimed on the earth that's all his anyway.
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I was refering to the troops in Germany
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Here's an excellent article about Europe's betrayal of the Jews, Israel and the West generally and capitulation to Islam. What do you think of this history, Wolfie?
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9772/un-bigotry-israel
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Sorry Jim for me the
topic is too complex and even the articel. But to say that Eurpeans hate the
Jews sure is a too simple perspective. But among most of the right wing and
radical left wing people, antisemitism can be found, so far I agree. But
antisemitism and racism for me has the same roots, human ingnorance and
cowardice. Most of the Europeans
wish that there would be peace in the middle East but nobody seems to have an
acceptable solution. I don't know who was first the egg or the hen, when it
comes to the topic of violence between both groups. To establish the land
claims from the Israelis with the Bibel, like they did in the UN is hard to
understand! No matter what we say the conflict seems for me a religious
conflict! For me most antisemitic
people are racists too, life seems easier to have a enemy image. We can
discriminate any kind of social groups wether they are black, gipsies, jews,
refugees or moslems and so on, so far it helps to canalise and instrumentalize
human emotion for political goals and interests.
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I know that 70 countries are meeting now in Paris and seem to want a 2 state solution. I have a valid US passport, and I know my country sells arms to both sides. We make money when people fight. Last night I watched a little documentary on binding arbitration. funny how those same folks use fear tactics and money to push legislation to protect corporations. By using your credit card, you have agreed that you can't sue the credit card company. No one reads the fine print.
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So far the 2 state solution sounds good, but maybe it would be better they live toghter with equal rights in one country. Two countries next to each other without respect for the other culture and religion, hard to imagine that it works.
Like I said the Jsreal/ Palestina conflict is too complex for me: I hope that one day they get their trip together, but I'm pesimistic, that this may happen in my lifetime, but I hope for my kids and my grandchild that this will happen.
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So far the 2 state solution sounds good, but maybe it would be better they live toghter with equal rights in one country. Two countries next to each other without respect for the other culture and religion, hard to imagine that it works.
Sadly, I fear that cannot happen....it would be far too dangerous for the Jewish population. Aithough I said "good post" Wolfie....I was in a hurry to go to work and was only referring to your last paragraph. It is unfortunate that much of the muslim population of the middle east ( and of course further afield) have been thoroughly brainwashed ( sometimes as tiny children) to hate jews and a literal acceptance of the Koran supports their disdain. To capitulate to some kind of compromise or " hand of friendship" from the surrounding Arab nations would be suicide for Israel.
Modified by lexy at Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 14:33:40
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Why do we sell weapons to the Saudis? They brainwash children the most.
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Why do we sell weapons to the Saudis? They brainwash children the most.
...and why do you always deflect the subject being discussed sideways to suit your agenda ?However, having taught English to many Saudis ( mostly men, but some women) I feel that their education is the most narrow and restricted of the Muslim Middle Eastern and North African students who manage to travel to England. Sometimes what they DON'T know is beyond belief. It has nothing to do with their intelligence but just what they are exposed to during their education.
We send them weapons because, at the moment when the shit hits the fan, they are our allies.
Modified by lexy at Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 17:40:49
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I just watched a documentary, maybe from BBC, with secret filming in Saudi. Public beheadings and school kids being taught Israel is the devil, I don't think the Saudis are allies at all. At one point here the Waldorf school my kids went to shared a former public school building with an Islamic school. The female Waldorf teachers were badgered to not wear short sleeves, and come graduation time only Saudi boys were allowed to participate. I think it's quite relevant, I don't trust the Saudis at all. I guess I'm extra upset as we just sold them 18 billion worth.
Modified by auggie55 at Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 20:11:45
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Political allies are not about what you or I think, Auggie. Until recently Saudi Arabia and the EU shared more enemies than friends and that was enough to make them an ally.
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To me it all comes back to our horrible dependency on oil, which is veering even farther away. Sorry.
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Well ,you pointed out that I veer off topic, and sure environment and economic equality are on my agenda. That said I think wanting their damn oil is a helluva costly price when you factor in the other Saudi, ideological exports.
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No Jim! It's not "the" problem....but they are even not innocent!
Modified by wolfie at Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 04:51:21
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Talking about how the Israelis aren't innocent - like the German judge that ruled that burning a synagogue is a reasonable form of protest against the evil Jews - oh SORRY, I meant Israelis! Yeah, it's so complex, Wolfie. Far too much for you to actually read that article. Good work. Well I guess I can enjoy a little schadenfreude, eh? How's Islam working out for YOUR country? Just fine I hear. Perhaps you have the same attitude - you are hardly innocent so why not capitulate to the savage wolves?
Modified by Jim at Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 12:50:43
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Oh Jim I think, it is the best to capitulate in front of your wisdom.
..........wolfie.......the world looks at you like you look at the world!!
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That's lame, Wolfie. Develop your own wisdom. Learn the facts. Or don't. One fact is that your country has judges that think it's no big deal to burn synagogues.
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......sorry Jim I thought you are a lawyer. It was an incendiary no one was hurt, whether it is a synagogues or a shool or a refugeehome, if someone would be hurt than it would be completly different. Okay we need new laws I agree but in the moment we have no other. I don't want to excuse it and according to my emotions I would have sent them to jail and the mob would have lychned them.
wolfie
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I particularly like the fact that the original synagogue was burned to the ground during Kristylnacht. I'm surprised that the Palestinians, oh sorry, GERMAN Palestinians, who did this and whose names are delicately protected from publication because, after all, they were all adults, didn't use that in their defence.
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......I think you forgot to take your pills!
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There is dry humour in his comment " The problem is that Israel is Jewish" but it really is true.
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Hi Lexy,
this case goes to court again. We will see !
What I don't like is when I get discriminated because I'm a german. So far noone should get discriminated because of their nationality or religion. To overcome the strangness of a stranger it needs a lot of courage and openness, but sometimes strangers are f..kheads too and sometimes they can be best friends!
We have antisemitism in Germany no doubt about it. But we have racism too and the funny thing is, in most cases they are the same people. Last year we had 800 fire attacks against refugees homes here in Germany, and it seems that the police does not work very hard to get the offenders, maybe the reason is a racism!
Out of my perspective antisemitism and racism have the same roots in our psychology. People who are full of anger and hate need an enemy image to let go of there tensions.
wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 04:14:00
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I think you should have pride in Germany and it deserves praise for having helped so many desperate people. Sure you get a few bad apples when being so generous, but I would bet that most refugees are grateful and commit less crime than the rest of the population. It's sad that all the rich Arab states seem to help no one, and that Trump is going against decades of US policy in encouraging more of the EU to break up.
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Every Nation has it's individual fate somehow. Germans had a special suffering in the WW II. After the war there were 12 million people from the east part of Germany and 12 million displaced people who tried to find a new home in the west part of germany. And I tell you they were not welcomed in their own country, they had a very hard time to be accepted from the rest.
So in our narrative we know, what it means to leave ones homeland behind. All the people had to suffer hunger, complete cities were devosted by million bombs.
The officials acted out of a human understanding to let them trough. We could not let them die at the border. Yes, things got out of controll and one thing should have been made clear from the beginning. You could come and we try that you can survive, but it will be hard too live in this new society and we want that you accept our laws and regulation and our cultur cause this is very much different to your way of thinking. After all the mistakes that have been made, I don't know what we should have done better in this time in September 2016.
Yes we have problems with refugees, and we will have in future, but so far the troubles are not instrumentalized by hard core right wings and neo nazi and the hard core Moslems we can work it out.
wolfie
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In five years time you will have been proven either right or wrong or somewhere in between. I know what my bet is.
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Anti-semitism is real. It's Jew hatred. But your absurd government and the liberal establishment that props it up has tricked you into thinking that concern about the Muslim invasion is racism. That's bullshit. Read this:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9771/germany-censorship-propaganda
Modified by Jim at Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 11:17:35
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Dear Jim,
I can think for myself, I don't need your help. You are not secure from not being duped!
wolfie
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Wolfie, we can all be duped. We WERE obviously. But this should be invaluable information for you if you're interested in keeping your head above water. The German government wants to drown your mind in propaganda. Read it, please.
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......would you please be so kind and sent me a porper link, I tried but landed in strange forum........wolfie
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When I try to post links they often don't appear so I put them in the body of the message too but then they're just addresses you have to cut and paste. Here, I'll try again:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9771/germany-censorship-propaganda
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Now I got it. The articel is onesided. There is a lot of mean interpretation. Since the US election the problem of fake news got more into offical attention.The social medias are used for all kinds of conspiracy theories. Desinforamtion got to be a huge problem and the social medias play a big part. I'm convinved that there are still a lot ( not all clear) of honest people in the German government anyway we have a federal system. We still have a free press, we are not the Turkey! So far I can see there is no offical antisemetism, at the demonstration the police were duped by arabic speaking ones. Maybe the tool from the government against the hate speeches and fake news on the internet is a bit helpless, but it is by my conviction not against free speech but it is a very fine line, what's about mean joke about jews, gypsis, black ones, yellow ones. So many people here in Germany are afraid off neo nazis already. If you say something against them , even people who are helping refugees are heavy threatened by neo nazis. They brown mop already has controll of some villages in East Germany. Too much reminds me of the beginging how Hitler got into power, that could at least not be in interest of the Jews. It scares me, but even Trump scares me, Wilders, Le Pen, Erdogan and your kind of perspective is highly irritating. And one thing should be clear, in one thing jihadist and neo nazis could be easyly untited and that's theire antisemitsm. I'm not a friend of Angela Merkel but she is not a mean person, maybe not charismatic and a bit boaring. There are a lot of interest in the politcal landscape who try to sow dispeace and and the aim seems clear: divide and conquer. Divide Europe, divide the society, spoil the facts, sow hate and anger. Is this what how you want to live. Maybe you should study a bit German history how Hitler, how the top cruel racists came into power. They caused the Holocoust. Why poeple fall for Hitler, they were euphoric listen to him -their garant for peace and prosperity.
wolfie
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It's funny to hear you suggest that I should study how Hitler came to power. I'm reading a fascinating, incredible book on that and much more called "explaining Postmodernism" by Stephen Hicks. I've learned so much in this one book, particularly about the German counter Enlightenment that lead to Hitler and beyond. Do you know that history? A damming indictment of the left, that's for sure.
I've also found a free audio version of the book read by the author. Here's Chapter Five that discusses the National Socialists (among all the other kind).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSISuvvQks
Listen to this if you can. Then read or listen to the whole book (a free PDF is available too).
Meanwhile, you say the article is one-sided? Is there anything specific you dispute? What's the "other" side? The other day a man in his mid 60s got a three-month jail sentence for putting up pamphlets protesting his town being destroyed by migrant "parasites". He grovelled before the court. My question to you is is it ever fair to say that the migrants are "parasitic"? Not nice, I know, but is it untrue? What do they take and what do they give to Germany? Are all generalities unfair and offensive? Why? You seem more than eager to generalize about the people you call right-wing and such. Right?
Modified by Jim at Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 17:03:41
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There were many things that led to Hitler. Yes I've heard of the counter Enlightenment, but this I can relate to what happend today, isn't that in a way what we call today postfacts, we don't accept facts anymore, emotions over facts!!! I know you try to present a lot of facts by the aricels you point to, but they are only information mostly a good mix, a good portion of some facts and here and there some little more or less speculation and lies. Emotions get triggerd. You read something and when you get the emotion, and you express it that migrants are "parasites" than for some they have reached their goals. In contrary out of the radical left wing view, all those bankers and rich people who don't pay taxes are parasites and it would be better to burn down their houses and expencive cars.The funny thing is that in Hitler -Germany it was clear the jews are parasites, cause some were involved in the bigmoney bussiness, the fact that most jews at this time were pretty poor people never was expressed.
When I get the book in german I will try to read some chapters, in english no way, I have a hard time with those books even in german.
If I listen to speeches of the new intellectual right wing people I see that they are playing with the same fire that leads to a certain view, what a human being has to fullfill. First he/she has to become a good patriot, look what happens in Turkey. Some characters like to live in totalitarian systems, me not wether left or right, I like to live in a free society in a constitutional democracy!
For me it is hard to understand you. If I would meet you in person it sure would be easier, and maybe we would have no interests towards eachother. This happens among many paople I meet. Some only talk about how much money they make, some ony talk about woman, some are lost in the esoteric field, even some try to convince me that Hitler was not bad at all there, only were to many missunderstandings. Some still live the dreams powered by drugs. I mostly like to listen to everyone, but I want to make up my own mind, even maybe sometimes I'm wrong.
There is one thing I would like to know about you, what kind of premie you were. One that very fast was dressed up in funny suits, with intentions for being a part in the mission. Or some you gave very funny satsang. Or this serious one with his tonque always in his throat and looking wiht strength. Or you were a funny bunny bongo, still hearing too much music and smoking dope. Or you believed that at millenium the astrodome will fly into space! Please let me know, maybe we have some good laughs and forget about the political disput!
And here is another question:
Are all generalities unfair and offensive? Why? You seem more than eager to generalize about the people you call left wing or liberal and such. Right?
Please try to understand, maybe your are right, but I prefer not to drink too bitter tea everyday.
Sometimes I would like to sent you links from german ariticels that presenting the same facts in a different light.
I'm wasting too much time here on my computer, somehow I tink it would be better to go out and meet some friends making music!
wolfie
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Wolfie, thanks for acknowledging that I share articles with you that are full of factual assertions (even though you also claim some are lies). Why not instead of speculating about how the authors or I process information, you simply deal with the assertions directly? It won't matter then what kind of premie I was, just like it won't matter what kind of premie you were. Right? Likewise, if you have other articles that you think refute what I'm showing you, provide them. If they're in German, you -- or I - can feed them through a translator. It's easy. Or there are also German English-language articles we know support your perspective.
The Jews were an integrated, productive and contributing sector of German society for eons. Do you see the migrants that way?
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I think so.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/germany-muslim-migrant-teen-pushes-woman-onto-train-tracks-as-he-tries-to-mug-her
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For me it matters what kind of premie you were. I want understand the person behind the words, what makes him or her think that way. I want a dialog in a friendly atmosphere, I will look in someones eyes and see wether it is good for me to trust the other person before I take things for granted.
The Jews were intergrated people, there even were some who fought in WWI for their country which was Germany. Most jewish people here couldn't expect something like that, that they were declared as parasites in the german society. But if we would have Moslem at this time maybe the Nazis would have prefered them, but they had only the Jews, Sinti, Roma, and ohter mixed race people, homosexuals, left wing politicals.....so many fullfilled the concept of unworthy beings!!!
We have a lot more Nazi cvictims here in Germany than through IS terrorists.
Most of the migrants that came in the 60's und 70's from Turkey are good citizen I live togehter with a young couple who are the third generations here in Germany Besides they don't like porkmeat I can not see any differences.
Yes I agree with you that we already have lost a lot of security and many people I know, already are aware of the danger in the back of their minds.
But hate and discrimnation is not the answer. When it would go after the new hard core rightwings, they would not mind that maybe concentration camps may help.
I think if we loose humanity we got more in trouble.
I don't know what substance you expect from me, I see facts like you, but I don't want to poison myself with letting that hate sink in my heart, cause that will destroy my life and my relations to other people.
Love can make blind, but hate will surely too!
I'm away for two weeks from my computer, that means I don't post at least for to weeks.
Have a nice time and I hope all those terrorists find a direct way to go to heaven, without hurting and killing otherones.
wolfie
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I agree -- very similar parallels in Europe and the US (Trump) currently to 1930s Germany. I haven't heard of the "brown mop" you say has control of some villages in East Germany. What is that? Is it connected with F Petry?
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There should be consequences. Will you admit that you were acting extremely foolishly and that your worldview is obviously untrustworthy?
Here's my prediction for the immediate future: YOU WON'T ANSWER.
Go ahead. Prove me wrong. Answer directly, non-evasively, honestly.
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If you're addressing this to me, I have no idea what you are referring to. My worldview is well informed, and is, I think, trustworthy. Maybe you should read unbiased histories of 1930s Germany. Historian Erik Larson's book is a good start. Yes, I don't always reply. Many other life responsibilities supercede forum replies; and now with the unfortunate rise of Trump, protests and political action have expanded those responsibilities. Can't just sit by and pretend like disaster isn't unfolding.
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I'm asking you what you'll say when your absurd prediction proves false. Will you admit that your thinking is absurd then?
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Not wrong about the huge risks. He's clearly a narcissist, sexist, elitist by any definition, rightwing or left. If we (global community) manage to not have the damage I fear, I will be relieved. But I'm not wrong about the threat which exists. Rather than offering one of the many excellent journalistic or historian analyses of this, I'll offer instead this more light view which represents well some of his bizarre and dictatorial authoritarian leanings, ala Stephen Colbert yesterday. Watch at least the first 3 minutes.... Displays of military might?? Stealing use of artists' songs without their permission, like an entitled king?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExD2VB5w21I
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I won't watch that asshole anymore. His kind of PC garbage is dime-a-dozen. Instead of Teo-minute "Hates" like in 1984, we have PC hate/humour like this. Colbert isn't funny. He's dull. Too bad you like him.
But then that's so Canadian, isn't it? Read the coverage today. MacDonald in the CBC is downright disgusting. The Globe? Won't go near it - but did today just for a fast look. Only Murphy and Black in the NP get it as far as I'm concerned. Read them (I know you won't).
Modified by Jim at Sat, Jan 21, 2017, 15:17:32
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Of course it is connetcted to Frauke Petry. It is a mix up off old conservative ones, who wish back the "good old times" from more softer neo nazis to hard core ones and even now young strong right wing intellectuals, who say for example, we are not racists but every ethnic group should live seperated, we should not get mixed up among eachohter.
For me the "Mop" are those characters, you need for every revolution, those are the ones who like to spread fear and violence amongst avarage citizen. This characters are needed to torture people and is used for all kinds of this dirty jobs. You can find them everywhere from left to right and for any kind of religious wars and in all the criminal structures.
Out of one of my "funny perspectives" those people have some left over brain function from wild animals or cannbals, some neurological sensation, they can be easly used for crimes of anykind. More easy for me: they are dump and frustrated characters making all the smarter ones responsible for things gone wrong in their lives. So far the society is more satisfied those characters are living mostly a normal life, but when frustration grows up a little bit, they are very quickley ready to rampage, their blasting fuse is much shorter than by more relaxed personfs.
Now at this time Frauke Petry and her friends try to gather all kinds of people, some good willing, more simple minded ones, some who are completly scared from the refugee problem, some who don't like Europe, some left over lefties, some who simple like to shout and complain, some who dream of the great Germany we could have been when we would not have lost the war! Some who love the regiment in Russia. All in all it seems to become a "brown soup" with forces that one day maby can't be controlled anymore!
There are villagees in East Germany were you can't anymore speak out against neo nazis. Even the majors of the villages are to scared to help refugees or make up decisions against the will of the neo nazis without that they or their families are not threatened.
wolfie
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Ah, yes, I recognize those people you describe. There are many of them in the USA also, more and more. And I agree with you about the more primitive or at least very different brain wiring, because their world view and reactions lack introspection and empathy. And unfortunately they are easily manipulated by despots who use hatred or fear to mobilize support and loyalty. This isn't new throughout history, but seems to surge in cycles, and it is surging now, as it did 75 years ago. We forget the lessons of history, over and over again.
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Hi,
yes I'm afraid too many seem to forget the lessons of history. I share your perspective.....wolfie
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It was only necessary to do that because 'Palestinians', who in fact have never existed as either a nation or a legal entity, kept on insisting that Jews had no historical association with the place. In the end I suppose, it just comes down to whose side you're on. Trying to be neutral, however admirable the intention, is a recipe for total confusion. Which is what we see with EU policy.
As it happens I take the Israeli side....something you've probably already noticed. 
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Hi, Trying to be neutral,
however admirable the intention, is a recipe for total confusion. There is some trues in it,
but I can't understand all the conflcts in the world. My experience is that, if
I know very much in some cases, I talk endless to try to make me
understandable. If I know too less I have to realise a few month later that I
must have sounded stupid. In case of Israel from my awareness I don't like the
present government. But my attidute towards Israel is even found amongst
Israels, of course my view is more liberal, that may not be shared from you or
jim. But my loyalty is with the people of Israel, but it's with the
Palistinians too, but my loyalty is not with those who spread violence wether
with weapons or psychic tactis. When you start to dive in
to history, when we try to see what causes had led to the condition of today it
is too much to study. I have so much to do in my everyday occurrences that I
don't have the time to dive so deep that I can qualify my knowldedge. And with
Israel it is the case that I have too little knowledge. I know a lot about what
Germans have done to the Jews, but I still can't comprehend that the hate
had grown to such cruel deeds. But when I see the hate here from the right wing
people against refugees, than i can see parallels how this hate was made
socially acceptable. This growing anger and hate troubles me, and all dictators
had the somway the same recipe: a population that is scared, is more easy to
rule and more easy to lie to. Wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 17:58:09
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It's going to be alright, Wolfie. Germany just needs a few more million Muslims, that's all. And why not? After all, it's only those big, bad right-wingers and their horrible lies about them that are a problem. It's going to be okay, it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay ....
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.......oh Jim, I'm afraid you took too many from the wrong pills  ))
Modified by wolfie at Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 05:48:19
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