| Hans Comments from February 16, 2024 Originally Posted on Facebook |
|  |
|
|
Post Reply |
Forum |
|
|
|
On February 16, 2024, there was a lengthy
exchange on my post about Prem Rawat between an individual named Janice and
many others, including Hans Rawat, Prem Rawat’s eldest son. Hans’s comments were deleted when the comment
he was responding to was deleted. What follows is a reconstruction of Hans’s
original comments along with those from others that provide context to his
responses. This is also posted on www.resourcesforthetruthaboupremrawat.com It may be easier to read there. Here is the link: https://resourcesforthetruthaboutpremrawat.com/2024/02/21/hans-rawat-eldest-son-of-prem-rawat-speaks-out/ Here is the original post. Comments follow. An uplifting message from Prem Rawat: "The chances are you've never seen the other side of me. You've
seen the event side of me when I'm on stage. But there is another side of
me. If you evoke that side, you won't like it. It's a nasty side.
You don't want to see that side. You're not missing anything by not seeing
it." Arundel, England, 23rd July 1999 Did Krishna have a nasty side? Did Ram Dass have a
nasty side? Did Jesus have a nasty side? Does Eckhart
Tolle have a nasty side? Did Nelson Mandela have a nasty side? Did Mother Theresa have a
nasty side? Did Thich Nhat Hanh have a nasty side? Does the Dalai
Lama have a nasty side? Food for thought. Janice everyone has good and bad, feed your good wolf, it
blooms, feed your bad wolf, it blooms. we've all experienced
our good and bad sides, we are humans, Difference is some people choose
to really feed the good wolf, others the bad wolf, you will find
yourself living in heaven, or hell, according to our actions. Don Janice I hear you. The question is what wolf is Prem Rawat been
feeding? Ask those who see him off stage, like his family. Or take
a look at this post: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/forum?cmd=get&cG=9333432333&zu=3933343233&v=2&gV=0&p= Daniel Don That link has some extra characters in it and doesn't work.
Maybe this will: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/forum?cmd=get&cG=9333432333&zu=3933343233&v=2&gV=0&p= Don Daniel Thank you Just fixed it! Phil Janice yup... "according to our actions ". It's
difficult but we gotta acknowledge what Hans is saying. James Phil we have to? I don't know him at all. Janice Phil nah - my brother bitches about my dad too, blames him for
ruining his life - it's a common thing for kids to blame their parents, instead
of growing up, taking responsibility for their own lives. Every human
needs inner peace, without it we tend to bitch n complain and not appreciate
our lives, or our parents. Wait til Hans son starts blaming him, then
maybe he will get it, grow up. Sounds like mental illness to me. Is
he on meds Hans ? Jo Janice so you don't believe what Hansi said happened to him as a
child? It's not called bitching it’s called abuse. Phil Janice this appears to be at a whole different level... Joe James so, you think Hans is lying? Janice I have seen Hans on fb running a scam. Sorry but I wouldn’t
trust him-no disrespect intended. Phil Janice what if Prem admitted that he did what Hans is saying he
did? What if he offered a lame semi apology and didn't deny the
accusations? James Joe I wouldn't have any idea. But I'm not gonna just side
with HIM! Never met him. not a friend at all. Stories are
complicated and the term "abuse" is a catch-all. I'd
sooner stay out of it. Angel James Its Prems oldest son. Wow. Where
have you been? Angel Janice no. His father the great Guru sexually abused him as a child and
not just Hans… Shocking and a huge wake up call for us who devoutly followed
him. Hans Janice , Are you suggesting life insurance is a scam? Hans (in reply to Janice) I have absolutely no reason to concoct such lies about
anyone in fact I have many reason not to allow this information to get out. By
speaking out against my parents, I am walking away from a promised multimillion
dollar inheritance! This is exactly the reason my brother who is also a sexual
abuse victim of my parents is keeping silent or denying these allegations. Susan Hans I believe you Hans. I am so sorry you have to deal with
people who do or say anything to protect their "master" No
matter how much you know that some premies would excuse absolutely any
behavior, it hurts to actually see them do it and it hurts me to watch
them insult you. I knew they would, you knew they would too. But it's still shocking to watch. I believe some
premies could have watched this happen and would side with your father, or watched him do absolutely anything
anything imaginable and see it as lila and a loyalty test. But knowing that and
being personally attacked in real time are so different. Hans I wonder how many followers of my father actually know the
history of the term "Perfect Master". He certainly didn't
coin it. Google it, you will find an Indian man by the name of Meher
Baba in the early 20th century who claimed to be either God in human form or in
touch with God to the point where he alone could disseminate God's infinite
wisdom to his followers. It’s funny how God always seems to show up
on earth without enough money and needs to extract it from people who have been
convinced that he or she actually is God. It seems that you, my dear
Janice, do not have the wear withal to distinguish between what is legitimate
and what is a scam. I certainly do not blame anyone who doesn't in
this case. Indoctrination is a lengthy process that prays on the spiritually
thirsty. Is a hungry bear a fool or gullible for getting caught in a
bear trap? Not at all. Trapping animals is tested and even improved upon by one
trapper to the next. In this case though it’s not animals being trapped for
their body. It’s humans beings trapped for their mind and soul. The biggest
difference is that the animal knows right away when they are trapped. The
effectiveness of this particular human trap is that the victim may never
realize that they were trapped until the day they die. My father himself said in satsang that one will not see the
entirety of their life until the moment they die. He left clues. He also used
to tell parables at premie only events. I was young and none of them made sense
to me except one. It was very clear, in it he basically suggested
heaven is boring and hell is a huge dinner party with history's most
influential and interesting people. Those who have allowed themselves to be
programmed to worship a false idol in place of God have a place at that table
in my opinion. However, I believe it is not a pleasant dinner party
as the fable suggests. Don Hans You are a brave and courageous man. You're standing tall, taking
huge risks to speak truthfully. Thank you. Hans (in reply to Janice asking if Hans is on Meds) Janice I will admit there was a time in my life that I did use illegal
drugs recreationally after the repressed memories of being sexually abused by
my parents resurfaced. I am certainly not proud of those days, but I look
at it as a form of self-medication at a time when I couldn't even talk to a
therapist about these issues. Thats how frozen inside I was.
For the record My father first gave me alcohol and cannabis when we lived
in Miami Beach, there were several premies who saw this. I was about 7
when we left that house and never returned. Susan Hans, anyone who has studied child sexual abuse knows this very
common way to anesthetize the pain. That they would hurl this against you
is cruel and ignorant. They used the struggles of the Jagdeo victims very
similarly. You were raised surrounded by people who thought your father
was their satguru. As a baby, you watched them all kiss his feet,
obey his every command, prostrate themselves before him. Where were you
to turn? I am posting under my real name here today. I will stand
with you and whatever little bit of support that is. I know it mattered
when people believed me. It mattered to A too, It mattered to many others who
never spoke ( maybe because they too had wounds of their abuse that they knew
would be used against them). The shame is not yours. The shame is
the perpetrator's. Susan James is there anything, Prem Rawat himself could do, that would
make you critical of him? Do you typically dismiss victims of sexual assault as
lying? Janice Hans as Prem's son you have a lot of power, be careful how you use
it. I'm sorry but you sound like someone with mental health issues, drug
issues, psychosis, hallucinations -- I've seen similar in my own family at
large. I wish you wellness. Don Janice Oh for crying out loud. How can you possibly say something
as rude as this to Hans? Honestly, where is your compassion?
Appalling comment. I'll leave it up for awhile so people can
see your true colors and then I’ll probably delete it. Susan Janice, this is called stigmatizing the victim. It's
revolting. I condemn your words as cruel, and ignorant. https://1in6.org/ Hans Susan, hi Susan, yes, my mother of course saw, and another premie I
remember. I won’t mention his name in this post. He was very close to my father
at the time, but they drifted apart as most have. As far as I know he is
still in the cult. A few years ago, I told a family member that this
person had witnessed the abuse first hand. It may have gotten back to him
because apparently a few weeks later I heard he had a stroke. I remember
the incident so clearly, I won’t get into details here but when my father
started molesting me in front of him, I looked over to see his reaction.
He looked like he had just seen a ghost. His face turned
white as a sheet and his whole body shuttered. I have no ill will toward
him for not speaking up. People were terrified of upsetting him for
good reason. Susan Hans I wish this never happened to any child and I am so sorry it
happened to you. There are many levels of betrayal. The abuse
itself, the witnesses without the courage or too indoctrinated to believe their
eyes, and the institutions that protect the abuser. I hope that by
speaking the truth about what happened to you, you put that back squarely where
it belongs, on those who abused, and those who betrayed you. Don Susan Yes, it is horrific and the lack of care for Hans is equally
appalling. Anyone with a brain in their head, needs to extend support and
love to Hans and his family and call for the perpetrators to be held to
account. No matter who they are. Susan Hans your father giving you psychoactive drugs, at such a young
age, known to affect child brain development and loosen inhibitions, is
inexcusable and reprehensible. There are other known child
sexual predators that have used those sorts of drugs in the
perpetration of the assault. Along with the newspaper stories published
when you were a child of Prem Rawat's sadistic humiliation of his closest
followers, it fits with the published accounts of his private behavior.
That his children were also used in such a way remains shocking to
me. Was there any boundary that wasn't crossed? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?%20fbid=324212973869123&set=pb.100088412672576.-2207520000&type=3 James Victims of or so-called victims of sexual assault, I give a case
by case analysis. There was a extremely talented baseball pitcher a
couple of years ago, who was framed by some crockpot. When she accused
him of assault, the league immediately kicked him out. he went to pitch in
Japan. The judge threw her case out. I have a big problem with
that. I don't know what happened to her, but she should've gone to jail. Susan Don the things that Prem Rawat followers say feeling they are
defending him are often the most telling about the dynamics of the cult of
all. James Susan actually I'm very critical of Prem as I have mentioned
here. I have a lot of grapes. Sour grapes? I meant to say I
have a lot of grapes. Come on auto text, gripes. That said, though
there is some books somewhere that has published the techniques, I would never
have known about it and nor would I have probably given it the dedication that
I have for the past 52 years. So I owe him a lot. Like I said here
before, it's much better than not doing it at all for me. Although the
God realization part has escaped me for the time being, I still dream about it.
And as someone here said, people who throw accusations must be examine
critically. I'm not a big fan of the American court system. People
tend to appreciate it only when the person that they hate gets in trouble. Susan James I may have missed that you can criticize Prem Rawat.
Many premies, (I know they may be called PWKs or students or something
new now) seem unable to do that. Please read up on child sexual abuse
generally before you condemn Hans. It's uniquely cruel to disbelieve a
sexual assault victim. It is extremely rare for children or adults to
make false accusations. As Hans said, he had much to lose financially.
I think what he has to gain is his integrity, his own name, the ultimate
safety of his family ( though I know that the history of Fakiranand bashing Pat
Halley's head in is not something Hans and Shana are unaware of). I ask
you to open your heart to the possibility what he is saying is true, Jacob Janice Your brother bitches about your dad having fondled his genitals
when he was little? Hans Janice how so? Because I’m calling you're Devine lord and savior a
child molester? Susan There are far more examples of the justice system failing
victims of child or adult sexual assault than false allegations. I am so
sorry if I misread you too. Sexual assault of all kinds, is vastly
underreported, while law enforcement and the justice system have improved, it's
difficult to come forward, it's difficult every step of the way for victims.
Of course, there are those minority of false allegations, but they are
rare and they are used like a hammer to scare victim from reporting their own
sexual assault, for fear what they will face. Read up on Harvey
Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Jeffrey Epstein, Michael Jackson, Woody Allen... read
about Larry Nasser, Dr. Robert Hadden.…. the justice system isn't easy at all
for victims of sexual assault when the perpetrator isn't famous or powerful…
when it's a David and Goliath situation... bringing up an example as you
did serves to scare and silence those who speak out. https://www.cantbuymysilence.com/ Hans Janice is that what you say about your own family members who aren't
obsessed with your absurd and ever morphing spiritual leader? You're a piece of
work! Karen Janice That is a shocking response. No empathy, no humanity, no
mercy. Hans (reply to Janice) I wanted to respond to Janice’s accusations
that I seem to have a psychosis similar some of her family members. I can
no longer find her post, so I'll just respond here. I have been through
many hours of therapy over the years. My mental health professional here
in Florida, a Doctor of Psychology, had absolutely no problem whatsoever
believing my story. Not only did she believe me, she analyzed my behavior
for many hours. Janice has not, nor is she to my knowledge a Doctor of
Psychology. Since seeing this particular doctor, I have been told by more
than one expert in the field that cult leaders and sexual abuse of one kind or
another seem to go hand in hand. Phil Don please leave it so others can see her cold heart. Susan Phil everyone should screenshot and save all of this agree. Don Phil No problem. I'Il leave it
Modified by Dojo at Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 10:58:12
|
|
|
|
|
Awkward as it feels to say thank you for reconstructing such a disturbing conversation, thank you nevertheless. It's very much appreciated. That certain followers will say anything in defense of their Lord and Savior is of little value. What is of value is Hans's unassailable integrity and the truth he's bringing to light.
This conversation is in reply to just one of the 274 comments on your original Facebook post entitled "An uplifting message from Prem Rawat: "The chances are you've never seen the other side of me." Those comments may also be of interest to anyone who can access your Facebook page.
Modified by lakeshore at Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 12:39:56
|
|
|
|
...obviously is heavily projecting her own experiences in her own family on Hans - and of all roles playing along in such a dysfunctional family, she assigns the role of scapegoat to Hans! Go figure! She is so involved with her own family story - never letting go of it, so it's 'hard-wired' in her brain - that she clearly is unable to see (and above all: accept) the cold, hard truth about her idols, "the divine family". It will be hard for her to accept that all she "experienced" in all her premie years were her own projections ... and the deep wishes of her own childhood for a healthy, wholesome family life.
It's hard to *not* get triggered by her vile and nastiness. And therefore all my Kudos go to Hans who so much kept his composure and answered in a very measured, decent manner.
Kudos to you (Dojo) as well for saving this historical document! Thanks, bro!
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
Modified by Ash at Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 13:10:01
|
|
|
|
This Janice Wilson woman has been getting on my tits for donkeys years! She is an uber gopi who sticks her devotional oar in at every opportunity. She was a frequent contributor to Enjoying Life and her sickly cloying posts have appeared in many places.
Her poetry is nearly as bad as her Master's. I had a book with some in but it has also disappeared. She is the admin on at least one premie Facebook group.
She takes every opportunity to defend and promote PR.
I responded to her deleted post, I wasn't exactly polite.
My guess is that she was overwhelmed by all the responses and especially those from Hans and couldn't handle it. Good riddance!
|
|
|
|
Pete -FB status-“ is celebrating life”. “Long time ago now there was a discussion here on Facebook about good manners. Now in reality there isn't any law that says you have to go around saying to people good morning,and some take great exception to you oh how rude it is that person is not a very nice person and on it goes.so I understand some from the past around prem off the camera and taking great exception because they wasn't acknowledged.and from that today they are having nothing to do with prem he is this bad rude person.now in reality.he isn't.”
Janice W……. “the exes are desperate for attention, and i recently discovered very manipulative, unkind.” Pete —-“Janice w., yes very manipulative.the mind as you know is dangerous.were lucky we live where we live and they can't touch us.”
Jerry “Janice …. l block them “
J.k.. “Janice w……. Your remark about someone who has suffered something terrible having mental illness because you didn't like what they said wasn't very kind either was it Janice.”
J.O.—“Janice that's not true Janice. I'm an ex premie. I raise a son, live with a wonderful kind partner. We both work in education and devote our lives to being kind and caring people. To suggest that a group of people all act the 'same' is xenophobic, so respectfully please check your bias. I suspect that you too, are a kind and caring person and that cognitive dissonance might be at play here. Staying silent is staying complicit, which is why I have added to this thread. I wish all the best.”
J… K….”. It's not about him being rude is it ? You've seen Don Johnsons page and seen what was said but are choosing to ignore it because you can’t handle it.”
Janice W……. “Pete, sadly the exes are ruining Hans life, encouraging him in his lies, I feel bad for Hans.”
Same as it ever was ... a message to a Jagdeo survivor 4/29/2001
This is a post that appeared on Lifes (sick) Great this morning. I think the exes need to see it to understand what kind of deluded cult thinking is taking place there. Here is the post: Please send this to_____ Dear ______ If what you say is true about Jagdeo (and I could believe you) It must be pretty awful and I sincerely understand your feelings. But you see: People go through many awful things in life... and somehow through their strenghts as human beings they overcome these bad things and have a joyful life. People have been raped, tortured, put on the most awful situations for long periods of their lives and they somehow overcome. Problem here ___ is that you are 'used' by the active ex-premies to promote their hatred and confusion. Are they helping you? I doubt it. They are just perpetuating your bad experience. Who suffers: you. They don't. I am moving away from the discussion of who is responsible for what happened to you, and who should be held accountable. As a person you have the power to overcome whatever happened and move away from being the victim. The ex-premies want you and need you to STAY AS A VICTIM. You do not have to oblige. You have a life to live. You are a beautiful human being and you have the power, the right and the strength in you to be and enjoy your life. Do not accept any longer to be their pet victim. Sincerely nino https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8
This is Susan adding a comment here. ---Every person who knows about the Jagdeo "investigation" and what was truly found needs to get that information public or make an af·fi·da·vit a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation, for use as evidence in court.
and get to to law enforcement.
I don't want the weight of your secrets.
I have had enough.
It still matters because they are using the same playbook 2024.
It's never been about living in the light of the truth has it?
It's always protect the Master.
https://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/forum?cmd=get&cG=9313735353&zu=3931373535&v=2&gV=0&p=
Modified by Susan at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 00:36:41
|
|
|
|
Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:47:10 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: all
Subject: PS: Another post from LG - I couldn't resist
Message:
| the warning at the end of this post to NOT post it on FV. A Post by Rachel Cunningham on Lifes (sick) Great: A guy called Richard said this (and a lot more, in a calm, clear, polite manner) to the FV's favorite victim, the woman who seeks not a cure for her ills but vengence. - Naturally he was lynched by the rabid dogs for saying.... 'Your attempt to demonize Maharaji has the collateral effect of funneling hate to all premies. Posts like _____have that effect by pushing emotion-charged buttons in people such as “child abuse”, that they lose perspective and react strictly out of emotion. Incidences of child abuse by an Elan Vital representative were so rare that to harp on it like you guys do completely skews the reality of Maharaji and the people who have served him over the years, some of whom are the most genuine people I’ve ever met. If you really don’t like hate then why don’t you do your part to diffuse it instead of formenting it.' --- Want to see an emotionally charged button? The following is emotional manipulation at a truly vulgar level and is what Richard and many others find so ugly about this 'child abuse' crusade. --- 'We don't know how many children Jagdeo abused or what has become of them — doubly warped by being brainwashed, we can only imagine the worse. I know that one of them ______________ ---(removed by Susan in case the survivor would want it removed) Straight off a National Enquirer cover? Unfortunately not, but FV can be very similar. The exes keep crowing about this woman's 'courage'. It takes a lot more courage to say - THAT is not honesty, THAT is not truth, That is NOT someone seeking justice. It is emotional manipulation and it Stands Out A Mile. And they wonder why Maharaji doesn't arrive on her doorstep with chocolates and roses?
--- This post is not intended to insult or enrage the woman in question. We all sympathise with her (them) and yes, the offender will be held accountable. There is a lot of work being done behind the scenes, to uncover not cover up. Patience will pay. ----- WARNING: This post is an attempt to clarify the nature of the ex.premie stance on the subject FOR PREMIES VISITING THIS SITE. If any ferreting ex wants to try and play the big hero by grabbing it and running back to ex.org shouting 'look at this!!' then you must WEAR THE CONSEQUENCES UPON YOUR OWN HEAD. There are unwell and unbalanced people on FV who should NOT be privy to information and opinion such as this. Enough said? I will respect this forum administrator's decision if he deems it necessary to remove this post due to the possible irresponsible behaviour of some people. |
|
|
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVQdXB9xgpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fumaCsQ9wKw
https://www.cantbuymysilence.com/
Another party line I have heard-- "that's old news" quote from two different prominent premies, one in reference to Jagdeo survivors and another in reference to Hans.
"David Byrne brought me here. He is performing this song as a second encore on his latest tour. This is a powerful and simple masterpiece, and I'm grateful to the artist who wrote it. May there come a day no one has to write songs like this again. "Silence is the enemy and sound is the weapon." Indeed."
I love this song and I feel bad comparing it to the original intent. It's not my song but I do respect the spirit and the message.
Modified by Susan at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 02:31:44
|
|
|
|
.. reminds me of the political quarrel going on in the US between the Trump cultists and normal people.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Yes I got it too.. That last comment from Janice is particularly vile. 'Pete, sadly the exes are ruining Hans life, encouraging him in his lies, I feel bad for Hans"
Really? You feel bad for him having attacked him quite cruelly?
They seem to see us as a coordinated group who act together! Pete is glad that they live somewhere where we can't get at them. I wonder where? Buffalo? Lets get the gang together and root them out!
But for Janice to call Hans a liar and drug abuser with mental problems is really quite shocking. Especially as it is obvious there is evidence of a conversation where Prem admits to the abuse.
Hang on in there Hans. What you are doing is brave and kind and generous. Honesty is so important when dealing with abuse of all kinds.
And thank you Susan for all your bravery and hard work , past and present.
|
|
|
|
I have not met Hans Pal Rawat but I have spoken to Shana Noel Rawat in two or three long conversations. More than once I cautioned her about taking on this role of truth teller despite the fact that, of course, part of me wanted nothing more than Rawat being publicly exposed by his son. I know an ex-premie she is close to has done the same because I've heard her. Rawat and his minions and his deluded Janices are really nasty pieces of shit when it comes to attacking critics of the Perfect Master even when they know the accusations are true.
Sometimes I'm completely unable to understand this behaviour but my connection to Rawat and DLM came about because I was completely unable to understand that people could exaggerate and lie about their "experience" of God and Guru Maharaj Ji and meditation 50 years ago. In most cases I suspect they are the same people.
I consider Shana Rawat to be a person of great character who is telling the truth about Rawat, the truth she learned in such a unique and shocking way. Her story if it is ever fully told would probably be titled Shana in Wonderland where she enters life as a princess in a Malibu Palace and begins to realise something is very strange and rotten at the core, rotten from the head down, sees the damage it has done and tries to tell people about it even though she understands how twisted some of those people are. It could be filmed as a psychological horror movie.
|
|
|
|
Well done advising caution. It's a hell of a fight for her and Hans to take on. Too much I think.
And then, what more needs to be said? It's said. We thrash it all out often here. The lies and delusions have all been documented on your site and others. The information is very easy to find for anyone looking.
It's hopeless trying to get through to minds that are closed. Not just with this cult. Ironic really, as we have information available to us as never before, a magic instant gigantic encyclopaedia which was science fiction just 30-40 years ago.
|
|
|
|
when it comes to controversial topics because it has no magic formula that reveals truth. The information is usually available but you have to dig for it to discern the truth about Prem Rawat, Scientology or other controversial topics. Will AI be any better? I suspect it will just search google and decide Prem Rawat is an internationally respected teacher of Peace.
|
|
|
|
oh you are right. it's like we have this little window of opportunity which opened up and it is still easy to access lots of information but it's not going to last, is it.
|
|
|
|
Yeah you've got to dig for it. But that's how most people who post here found their information, including me.
|
|
|
|
yes agreed. Plenty of caution required, I can't help thinking this could easily go beyond the Rawat family and maybe it is enough to not be silent.
Here is a good place to tell stories.
and yes, I do like Mr Google too, yesterday I was looking up information on the ph of drinking water, so easy to find everything I wanted to know.
|
|
|
|
That's because no-one has any interest in lying about the pH of drinking water or creating a conspiracy theory about it or (so far) claiming that altering the pH of drinking water can cure cancer.
|
|
|
|
Yes, it's not entirely clear sailing - there are unsubstantiated claims, according to google, that high ph could be good for your health, and my conspiracy theory friend was way too well informed about drinking water for it not to be a current topic of conversation.
But within seconds of looking on google I knew the tap water levels - 8.5 - 6.5.
I've already experienced going acidic from drinking my filtered rainwater - the filter breaks down and affects the water ph really badly, so when I woke up dreaming of black waters and my cat was fractious I immediately panicked and stopped drinking water. Then I started thinking what to do for the cat and the chickens and the plants and oh boy it impacted on me how quickly things could go downhill if the water supply gets too acidic.
Then I tested my tap water which also has a filter on it, my rainwater tank water and the cask of the best drinking water you can buy at the supermarket according to my friend - Pureau. My tap water was purple (7.8) and my rainwater tank was yellow (6.8). ie my tap water is alkali and the rainwater is acid. Even more acidic was the Pureau. They explain quite openly on their site that it goes acidic quite quickly after leaving their factory.
Not something my friend knows I'm guessing, it has been interesting to see that while we wait for the gas giant to strike the interest has gone to brands - buy from these people, don't buy from those.
|
|
|
|
Hi Lesley,
I'm sort of professional at this and couldn't resist commenting. Honestly -- pH 6.8 and pH 7.8 are as near dammit the same as neutral. Drinking water from limestone areas can be on the higher pH side 7.5-7.8 because of bicarbonate. But the pH of water can vary widely according to the smallest of changes. As you may know the pH is minus the log of the concentration of H+ ions - and 10 E-7 molar really isn't a very high concentration (0.1 micromoles/ litre = a fraction of a microgram) and this number can be significantly shifted by adding correspondingly absolutely tiny amounts of any substance that either dissociates to provide protons (acids) to take pH down or that binds protons (bases) to take pH up.
The pH of water will shift down somewhat even if you just blow through it- or just over time -because the carbon dioxide in your breath will dissolve to make carbonic acid and potentially take the pH down to 6 or so.
Virtually anything you eat -or have eaten - and anyway just mouth, stomach and intestinal fluids - will instantly and massively change and dominate the pH of any water you ingest anyway - because the pure water you drink immediately then becomes a complex solution of many substances which then together control pH.
Even more so - and fortunately - the pH of our blood, lymph and the cytoplasm within every cell of our body is tightly controlled to within a very narrow range around 7 by our metabolic biochemistry.
So - while there are few things that I would stick my neck out and say that I am certain of -- I am certain that the pH of drinking water is not a variable that anyone should worry about too much.
Anyway if you won't accept my wisdom on this please take it from my cat - he happily drinks our pH 7.5 tap water --but equally laps up the rather nasty water in the pond which I think is relatively acidic at 6.0 or so -- but he is still ghoing strong at 18 or so.
Tim
|
|
|
|
I too had to have some professional understanding of these things and I agree. Agree too part of why I loved learning these things is the hard science very lovable thing after being in a cult!
Two films come to mind- the Andromeda Strain science fiction where solving the mystery of the space alien germ was based on the Ph of the outliers who survived.
The other is Idiocracy one of my favorite movies ever
And then this wisdom of Jesse Pinkman
If I keep it up with the movie clips I will be mind melding with a certain Rawat.
Modified by Susan at Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 19:03:27
|
|
|
|
Yes the Andromeda strain idea was clever - the author was a physician I think ? -- and the Jurassic Park idea too (probably feasible to do even now for woolly mammoth). Mind you - a bug tough enough to cross the Universe but to only replicate so tightly within a miniscule range of pH ? - My pet Andromeda strain would have evolved and won easily - but then no one would have wanted to read the book  . Not seen Idiocracy - tx for the link
|
|
|
|
thanks Tommo, that is very useful to read. yes of course, once I tested the water I knew it was okay and went straight back to drinking it.
The plumber who installed my rainwater tank came back to replace the filter on my mains water and I told him I had had to stop drinking the rainwater as it had turned me acidic (yes it really did, three days after I stopped drinking it I was in bliss) and he told me it was the deteriorating filter that made that happen so he replaced the filter on the rainwater tank too.
So yes, not something to worry about unless you have filters. Or acid rain of course.
I'm very pleased with myself that I thought to get the test kit out and I've taken to mixing the tap water with the rain water. 
|
|
|
|
Ah yes. The integrity of the filter really is important for safety - and having the tank clean and dark with nothing growing in it-- it's amazing how algae seem to grow with the minimum of light. Not so much pH but secondary products made by bugs not good to drink.
I am sure that 13's practical advice will be sound on this (never tried it myself)
Back on pH ..Curiously ..Despite my skepticism I note that here has been some real research on the potential beneficial effect of drinking alkaline water at pH 9.0 on shifting the gut microbiome (shifting slightly the pH inside the gut is much more feasible than the pH of bloood and within cells) - with a view to decreasing the liklihood of developing diabetes. At least - in a test set of about thirty young Danish men - the intervention had no discernible effect. But it just goes to show that there is always more to things when you think more deeply ..
But I am a complete science nerd.. and always get overly intrigued once I dig into a topic --- so I'll stop now cos we are seriously off topic here and - unless Prembio knows differently - and the perfect master has opined on any of this
|
|
|
|
I don't think, praise the Lord, Rawat has said anything on the topic of pH has he.
It's been great to talk about it, thanks for all the interesting info.
|
|
|
|
Modified by tommo at Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 18:11:47
|
|
|
|
Filtering rain water - here's an instructable I did on making a rain water filter which is self cleaning, has no moving parts and has been running in our garden for years without maintenance.
The water is clean enough to supply toilets, run the washing machine and irrigate the garden.
I ran a system for making spring water drinkable, but that required a 5 micron filter which only lasts a few months and a UV light system to sterilise it- which was expensive and used too much power, so I abandoned that.
Tim's provided all you need to know on pH I'm pretty sure.
Now you have a filtering option.
The internet, eh?
|
|
|
|
That instructable is brilliant !
|
|
|
|
Thanks Tim! It's something I've been experimenting with for a while, and solved at last. It does work great. We no longer walk around smelling of pond.
I've been meaning to get round to that instructible for a while. I mean to make some better drawings to illustrate the parts. But I kept putting it off due to not getting round to doing the drawings. So there it is, hopefully something I can improve and update as I get the time.
|
|
|
|
The things we learn about our fellow posters here. After Tim's brilliant explanation of ph in drinking water and your brilliant instructable, I can't not say what I'm thinking so please don't hold it against me:
How the hell did the two of you end up in a cult!? Me, I can understand, but you two??
I know... no one is immune, but sheesh!
Modified by lakeshore at Tue, Feb 27, 2024, 06:42:55
|
|
|
|
Says the eloquentest writer on the forum.
Don't start...
|
|
|
|
yes, agreed Bob - there's me all happy because I thought to do a test and then there's this really top notch solution already built. I'd love to have a filter like that on my tank. I can't help but think it would be good for a lot of people.
|
|
|
|
yes, it looks fab, John. Cleans itself when it overflows. I wish I could build something just like it for my tank. Brilliant.
|
|
|
|
I am reminded of the time when my friend's nephew ( not a premie) was dating Daya. He said it was very weird at the Residence. And Prem never said a word to him. Imagine, not even a polite remark to your daughter's boyfriend?At some point his parents were invited to dinner and Marolyn was wheeled out from the beach house and was charming and hospitable.
But I imagine it has been a very strange experience for Shana. I agree, she is a woman of great character and so brave to take this on. I wish her and Hans the very best in the battle ahead. Not for the faint hearted..
|
|
|
|
I do hope someday she tells some of her less serious stories as well. Some of it is comical. Like much of Prem Rawat’s world it’s all a farce then it’s not funny at all.
|
|
|
|
I find attempts by certain followers of Prem Rawat to discredit a victim and former followers who speak out about Prem and Marolyn Rawat's apparent childhood sexual abuse of their own children to be appalling examples of how far removed they've become from societal norms and morality.
What could be worse than calling one of the victims a liar without any justification whatsoever? Only what the wife of that victim has been subjected to.
The accusations made by followers of Prem Rawat against former followers who spoke out against Mahatma Jagdeo's sexual abuse of children and the cult's egregiously slow, ineffectual and obfuscating response to it include: demonizing Maharaji (Prem Rawat), fomenting hate, conspiracy, emotional manipulation, pushing emotional buttons, trying to exploit "pet victims," being desperate for attention, coming from "dangerous minds" and tabloid sensationalism. Those same types of responses are resurfacing in the face of these recent revelations.
Worse are the vulgar smears, rationalizations and excuses for these recent revelations that include: it was common in India, it was common in Prem's family, false memories, mental illness, use of recreational drugs, "even Jesus had a dark side" and others that I'm not in a position to mention.
At what point does truth and efforts to ascertain it become so threatening that it elicits such strong, hostile, defensive and preposterous reactions?
To be clear, everything I've written about these recent revelations is based entirely on the words of one of the victims, his wife and a recorded conversation among Rawat family members in which Prem, Premlata and Daya acknowledge the truth of the parental childhood sexual abuse described by one of the victims; a recorded conversation listened to and corroborated by many individuals.
I'm not seeing how any of those accusations, rationalizations and excuses apply.
Modified by lakeshore at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 12:33:06
|
|
|
|
....that 50years of DLM cult brainwash can send you straight on the slippery road into DEvolution - from a human being to an unconscious vegetable.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
Modified by Ash at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 10:55:21
|
|
|
|
Like so much else that we are subjected to in society lately, what is put forth as truth is exactly the opposite. We were told back then that if we left the feet of the master, then we would turn into a rotten vegetable. By the way, that one really got to me for awhile and made me afraid to leave.
But the real truth is by staying at the feet of the master too long you, or at least your brain, turns into a rotten vegetable. Too many years of psychic dependence, lack of critical thought and cognitive dissonance has its effect apparently. I have seen that with so many of the recent posts by active followers.
Maybe and hopefully they manage well in the parts of their lives that are not directly associated with Rawat. But it is easy to imagine that it all slips into everything they do. Everything they experience in life gets interpreted through the filter of Rawatism.
It causes me to shutter really and reminds me why I left so long ago. I could feel it even then, the corrupting force of this absurd closed way of thinking on my brain and spirit.
I still remember making my first friends out of the cult. Another one of those reverse lies. Rather than them being ignorant, they were so much more vital and self aware and genuinely enjoying life than the premie community I had just left. It is because they were in control.
In the premie community everyone was trying to convince themselves and each other of their spiritual superiority and that they had the monopoly on joy and peace, when it was just a story we told each other. There was absolutely no truth to it and there still clearly isn't.
|
|
|
|
well said Aunt Bea. It was my experience too - leaving the feet of the master oh where shall I go? the world opened back up. It felt like my brain was working properly again.
Believing in Rawat's fakery fundamentally gummed up my mind. I really like my mind.
|
|
|
|
Another mic drop post. So few replies because
“What name can I call you what word can I say that won’t fall short lifelessly to the floor”
|
|
|
|
Premies seem to consistently fall back upon the terms 'psychosis' and 'mental illness' to rationalize and invalidate criticism of their master. I recall that this line was fed to us all sometime in the nineties in the legal disclaimers around 'Knowledge' at one stage? Do others recall that? Something about the techniques of Knowledge not being appropriate for people with 'unresolved mental health issues' or something like. What an irony when you think about it - the possibility of peace for everyone - except for those in most need of it. And then - in a bewildering switch - the preferred captive audience suddenly becomes prison inmates --who probably have more unresolved mental health problems than any other sector of society.
The other meme of course is that, aside from madness, criticism of Rawat must be equivalent to 'hate'. The easy premie conviction that expremies must likely be insane/ and or hateful arises from the residue of the cult years of indoctrination around the dangers of what would become of those manmuts etc.
One premie post I noticed - almost with a sense of nostalgia - further down in the transcript that Susan posted - even made reference to 'how dangerous the mind can be'. Reminded me of all of those 'crazy mind' satsangs of the 70's.
So there you have it -- People who imagine a personal inner relationship with an - allegedly - alcoholic, paedophilic, drug-using ex-pilot and ex-God called Prem Rawat. People who place more trust in the words of Prem Rawat - even if they do not actually know him personally - than in the words of anyone else or indeed even their own mind - seriously imagine themselves to be in a position to opine about the mental health of others.
It would even be funny if it were not all so profoundly sad -- but aside from the stupid ongoing mental entrapment that all this represents -- the threads here reveal that there has been some real serious hurt as well - within Rawat's own family and doubtless elsewhere too. All complete strangers to me and none of my business of course but I just hope for the happiest - and most truthful - eventual outcome for all.
Modified by tommo at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 18:03:41
|
|
|
|
What does "manmut" mean? Couldn't find it in the dictionary. Is it kind of urban dialect or so? Thanks from a non-native speaker.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
It's an apostate like me. From the ever reliable prembio
|
|
|
|
Thank you Tim! First for your excellent, thoughtful post and secondly for making me laugh when you beat me to the punch on manmut. Unlike me, you were smart enough to simply post the link while I sat there typing as fast as I could!
Modified by lakeshore at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 18:18:30
|
|
|
|
Well it's a lived experience for me of course - second nature
|
|
|
|
@tommo and @lakeshore
Well in this case, I'm also one. *giggle
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
"You know what manmut means? Manmut is what has been described as a devotee who is not a devotee, who has been sent beyond everything. A manmut is the worst. That's it. If there's the pits, then that's the pits. That's the end. That's the back room of hell. That's the hell of hell. And what manmut means is: the follower of mind. But before being a manmut, you have to be a devotee. First you have to be a devotee, follow Guru Maharaji Ji, and only then can you become a manmut. Because you leave Guru Maharaj Ji and start following your mind. And then you end up in the pits. That's it."
Prem Rawat Hans Jayanti, Kissimmee, Florida November 8, 1979
Courtesy of Prem-Rawat-Bio.org
Modified by lakeshore at Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 18:13:39
|
|
|
|
We're all manmuts (bozos) on this bus! Or is it bongo premies? Or psychos?
|
|
|
|
"mentally unstable" *rotfl*
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Gosh he can't even explain it properly! Full of judgments and reproaches.... not even capable of communicating in a civilized manner, this Mr. LOTU.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
I want to see a musical like “Book of Mormon”
There would have to be a some about Manmots. A wheelbarrow full of old vegetables is a prop.
In Scientology and NXVIM they call Manmuts suppressives.
|
|
|
|
Hans R. to James B—“ Hello James, I would like to weigh in on this topic if I may. I recently did some research on google and found some interesting information that I believe is relevant to this question. “Knowledge ” as practiced in the cult of the perfect master AKA Guru Maharaj ji is without a doubt derived from the teachings contained in the ancient Sanskrit text, the Bhagavad Gita which is part of the larger epic poem known as the Mahabharata, the basis of the Hindu religion. In the Gita, lord Krishna tells lord Arjun, there are four yogas or methods that can lead to the liberation of the human spirit. They are also clearly the methods practiced by Maharaj ji’s premies. Keep in mind these yogas were presumably intended to work on their own, not together and could take many years if not a lifetime to achieve. 1. Karma yoga, the yoga of action and reaction. Traditionally Hindus give alms to the poor which they believe will cause good fortune to be bestowed upon them at a later date or in another life and eventually lead to Nirvana and the end of reincarnation. In the cult, however, practitioners are persuaded to give directly to the master in the form of “service” usually physical labor or offering their particular expertise and or the donation of money to the master (so he can bring peace to the world, one person at a time, in jaw dropping luxury). Some people find such practices to be incredibly rewarding, even outside of the cult. Philanthropy is often a major part in the life of the extremely wealthy. Being part of or contributing to a cause that one see as grater than one’s self can be highly rewarding. 2. Bhakti Yoga or idol worship. Clearly idol worship or worshiping the perfect master in this case has a major roll in the experience of “knowledge”. This phenomenon can also be seen in modern society in the form of celebrity reverence. Take someone like the late Michael Jackson for instance. He may not have been a cult leader per se but he certainly had a cult like following. If someone who did not appreciate him or his music attended his concert, their level of excitement would presumably be far less than that of a true diehard fan or someone who literally worshiped the man as an idol or icon. 3. Jnana yoga, the path of self knowledge. This is the practice of arriving at spiritual conclusions based on direct observation and personal experience. Obviously the word knowledge is part of the description. One may listen to “satsang” (translation, truth) and agree with what is said because of previous beliefs or observations. One may find enjoyment in practicing “knowledge” and equate that with the legitimacy of the operation. I find this to be the most deceptive of the four methods as not all observations in life are accurate. Some believe the Earth is flat because they stand on top of a hill and look at the horizon which certainly appears to be flat. In reality, if you stand on the beach and look out over the ocean, you can only see about three miles of ocean surface because of the curvature of the earth. Another example is this, say you have a young child in school. You receive a phone call from someone claiming to be a faculty member, they tell you that something terrible has happened to your child. Would this not evoke a strong emotional response? It should! Is the emotion itself real? Yes, you certainly feel something but does it prove that something bad happened to your child? No, the experience or emotional response you feel does not prove the validity of statement being made which caused it. The mind produces an experience based on input both true or false and can literally be tricked, sometimes by its own inaccurate observations or interpretations. These are the three main yogas that Krishna presents to Arjun. Then he says there is a fourth yoga. A shortcut to liberation if you will. Raj yoga, the yoga of ritual and meditation. This is the yoga to which my father attributes his teachings, though clearly all four yogas can play a significant roll in the experience. I believe meditation its self is the most legitimate of the four practices. ( but not necessarily the techniques my father teaches). Meditation, particularly breathing exercises, have been scientifically proven to cause a measurable effect on brain activity. Without the grace of a guru I might add. Many around the world, who are not members of a spiritual cult, practice meditation as a sort of ritual and believe it contributes to their mental and physical wellbeing with noticeable results. When I read the descriptions of the four yogas online I realized instantly what my father had never told me. These were the components that create the experience of “knowledge”. It has nothing to do with my father’s claims of being a master of “perfection” as he puts it. In fact whenever someone comes along who has a greater grasp of language and speaks more convincingly about the spiritual con that is Knowledge, my father quickly puts them in their place. The last thing he wants is for someone else to run away with his golden goose. Behind the scenes, he acts more like a mob boss than someone with spiritual mastery. Gurus are ubiquitous in India. An expert recently estimated that there are over ten thousand cults in the United States alone. People think this experience is special and devote their life to this man. Why? So many premies have told me, “your father saved me” I often wonder. Saved from what? Boredom? No. It turns out that many suffered from acute emotional trauma before receiving knowledge. The loss of loved ones in a tragic way. Abuse in their childhood, rejection by loved ones and so on. People quote my father and say, “knowledge works”. My response to that is, yes it does, so does Fentanyl! Does that mean everyone in pain should use it? Not necessarily, opioids regularly ruin people’s lives. However, Im sure some people swear by it. So what about worshipping a false idol, does that ruin lives? I believe in some cases it has. I also believe it can ruin more than just your life on earth. That is of course a belief but a belief that has been around since the time of the old testament. The way I see it, the experience of knowledge is a rehashing of one of the world’s oldest religions. The methods tap deep into the human psyche and can create a powerful experience when fully adopted and implemented by the practitioner.”
Another thread-
Pat W. To Hans R. -“I'm amazed, incredibly impressed and frankly somewhat overjoyed and grateful, that a member of Prem Rawat's family is so led by integrity to embark on the massive task of questioning and extricating himself from what must have been essentially some kind of Mafioso-style family situation. He clearly is an intelligent, brave-hearted soul.
I have long observed that only people who are personally hurt by some aspect of Prem Rawat (or any other belief they enjoy subscribing to) are ever motivated to question their situation. I guess that being abused as a kid and the hurt thereof must have sown some pretty devastating seeds of doubt that contributed to the scales falling from his eyes enough for him to exercise his intelligence and recognise all the dysfunctional stuff he must have seen going on daily.
I have massive respect for people who are compelled by their integrity to confront real 'Truth' when faced with such vicious opposition as happens within a cult. It takes huge faith in oneself and one's good motives to stand up to the fear-mongering and pressure to remain 'loyal' which in his case must have been all around.
I can relate completely as Rawat's teachings effectively sought to infantilise us too. So, in a way we were also 'abused kids', although not sexually (although I think being told at 17 we should become celibate monks was kind of sexual abuse!). Rawat was delighted to became a controlling parent figure for those of us who surrendered and sung the words of Arti to him "You are my Mother and You are my Father" etc
Janice (who I remember as a fully paid member of the 'Maharaji Travel Club' since I saw her at almost every program) is probably just one of many who are so long spellbound by their 'experience' and their learned association of it being all by the Guru's Grace, that they will never question it even if confronted by information that exposes the hypocrisy, abuse, lies and dysfunction. Also they don't realise that if you want you can still have the same meditation high and be highly critical of Prem Rawat. It's a belief that premies are locked into by fear although they cannot see or admit to that as they have not experienced a personal down side (yet). Their lives are built around this since their youth for goodness sake... and most of them are now old people! To them all this is highly threatening and too challenging to take on board.
I feel quite emotional and grateful to Hans for doing something that I personally know to have been incredibly hard and that for him must have been even more so in spades. Thanks Hans!”
Hans R. to Patrick W. “Hi Patrick, I read your post and wanted to sincerely thank you for expressing your understanding, empathy and insight into my situation. I am grateful for the kindness and support I have received from so many who have taken the time to read Don’s posts and were able to responded with sympathy and compassion. Wishing you a wonderful day! Hans”
|
|
|
|
Thank you Susan.
Pat W. writes: "a member of Prem Rawat's family is so led by integrity... to stand up to the fear-mongering and pressure to remain 'loyal' which in his case must have been all around... I have massive respect for people who are compelled by their integrity to confront real 'Truth' when faced with such vicious opposition as happens in a cult."
Yes, those quoted sentences are out of order, but that in no way changes the context or the meaning. As much as I agree, I am overwhelmed by something beyond mere integrity unfolding before my eyes. I'm not sure there's even a word for it.
And as I sit here in awe of it, I will not allow it to change the simple fact of the sheer heart-wrenching down-to-earth human-ness of someone trying to make their way as best they can with no benchmarks, playbook or precedents against all odds on such an uncharted journey.
"What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Tryin' to make his way home?"
No, this person is certainly no god and - unlike his father - I'm sure he'd be offended to be elevated in any way or put on a pedestal. But the rest of it makes my heart sing.
I've read about the effects of parental alcoholism on the adult children of alcoholics and I can attest to the fact that as real and significant as those effects are, they're nothing compared to the lifelong effects of childhood sexual abuse that alter and hamper one's trajectory in so many unquantifiable ways (unique to each victim), and the struggle it takes to cope, compensate, compete on a lopsided playing field and overcome them - let alone both conditions compounded by unimaginable family dysfunction.
My life, and I think I can speak for others, is richer for sharing a ride with such a stranger, misty-eyed again as I stare out the window trying to make my way along with him and everyone else on the bus.
That feeling is vastly superior and far preferable to anything I ever felt practicing Knowledge.
Modified by lakeshore at Thu, Feb 29, 2024, 08:50:58
|
|
|
|
Several days ago I plucked up my courage to send Hans a private message on FB. I had such an urge to express my sympathy for him and Shana ... and I didn't even expect an answer. But then the way he answered me was so overwhelmingly heartfelt, so honest and so much on equal terms. I hadn't expected this at all.
It touched my "motherly heart" so much, after all he's just a year younger than my youngest son. So much so that I really had to gather myself not to "get on the next bus" in order to go to his and his (own) family's rescue.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Do you mean time sequence of posts? I could have cut and pasted wrong I would like to correct if something is misleading there?
I know I pulled from two different threads. They aren’t the only Hans comments not posted here but just two I felt people shouldn’t miss. They aren’t shocking like the others but show something else. As all know now, I have known them for about 5 years. I felt bad often that all these folks here that have risked so much (some suffering the wrath of cult themselves) didn’t know what I knew. And hinting seemed unfair. So I just looked like an ex with an inexplicable renewed interest. The gravity of the thing, the basic rights of victims, the history of retaliation from the cult- all led me to have to live with looking a bit of a head scratcher who suddenly cared about Prem Rawat again.
My point is, I feel people still are getting bits and pieces of the whole thing. Without more context it remains a bit frustrating. But what I like about these quotes is that you get some insight into Hans the man he is now. He’s thoughtful, respectful and has not an ounce I have seen of his father’s arrogance. I liked what Pat said as I think it’s likely a sentiment many feel and he said it so articulately.
Most of all I hoped all the voices here might want to read that thank you from Hans.
|
|
|
|
Oh dear!
As I always second guess my posts and try to anticipate and correct anything that might be misunderstood before it's too late, this one never occurred to me. My sentences out of order comment referred only to the lines from Pat W.'s post that I quoted in my post... lines that I cherry-picked and strung together out of order. I only mentioned it in case anyone might notice. My comment had nothing to do with your post.
To be clear, I very much appreciated your efforts to draw attention to how thoughtful and respectful Hans's Facebook posts were and continue to be. I also hope no one thought I was in any way minimizing Pat's acknowledgement of Hans's unassailable integrity.
My post wasn't even about what initially compelled me to make a post. In fact, before I went off in an entirely different direction, the very first line I wrote was:
"Is it okay to swear on the forum?"
While reading Hans's post, I was so captivated by his integrity that I was shocked, saddened and a little bit angered by the contrast between him and other family members who continue to shamelessly take sincere premies' money even as they attempt to conceal what they surely know and stand by silently as one of their own brothers (and sons!) and his wife are ostricized and smeared for telling the truth.
Anyway... thank you again for your post and helping to bridge Facebook and the forum.
That's a quadruple by my count... make that five!
Modified by lakeshore at Thu, Feb 29, 2024, 15:52:52
|
|
|
