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I think I'll email all the images to me so they can be automatically resized. Then I'll save them and post them.
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Meditation begins in the form of our master,
Adoration begins at the feet of our lord,
Concentration begins in the words of our master,
Liberation begins in the grace of our lord.
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Jai Gurudev Maharaj Ji
Your glory fills the world
Protector of the weary and the weak
You bring the death of attachment
You bring the mind true detachment
Save us from the ocean deep
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev
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Focus on the form of Guru Maharaj Ji
Always remember his every word is holyIn your heart cherish the feet of Satguru
Always pranam to the supreme power the Satguru No one should remain in illusion's misery
Without Satguru no one is ever set free Satguru ends the sufferings of birth and death
Endless his glory, infinite his praises
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I also sent one of those letters from the ashram asking for money. It was to get to Copenhagen in 1974. So embarrassing to remember.But until that point Jim, you almost had me convinced that allowing the mind total freedom was not the way. John.
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Let's see how smart you are, John. Did my mother and sister send me any money? Did they come and stay in the hotel with the mahatmas? Did Julie become a practicing premie finally?
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Just guessing, but my Godmother did send ne 20 pounds.
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I just love that bit about how we're all working so could you please send us money because, let's face it, it all goes to the gooooorooooooo!!
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I like the way you told your mother how lucky she was that it was only $225 and a she was a privileged passenger. And she didn't leap at the chance?? Oh, my, how stunned you must have been.
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Did your mother laugh or cry after she read that slop? Haha! Thanks Jim, that was great. You've done a great service. To answer your questions, I think your mother probably sent the money. No, I don't think she went to the hotel. No, I don't think Julie became a practicing premie. Not after reading THAT letter!
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Hi Jerry, No money, no go Millenium and no practice Knowledge again. My feisty maternal grandmother wanted to hire the renown deprogrammer, Ted Patrick (a/k/a "Black Lightning" to kidnap and rescue me but my mum was far too liberal and open-minded for that. Don't know how she reacted, actually. I'll ask her.
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Did you actually believe this stuff at the time? I mean in your gut, or was it just wishful thinking? To be honest I find the letter to be sort of a composite of valid insight, we can and do pursue that which isn't going to satisfy, and I do share your former belief that a being of "infinite peace and bliss is keeping us alive", aka God. But then you go really into detail like you've got it figured out to the minute detail. Cripes Jim, you must have thought Jesus Christ, Moses, and Muhammed would be impressed by your wisdom. But how much of it really resonated with you to the core? Because I think if we really believe something we never let go of it completely. The residue of it stays with us, as is the case with my faith in God. For awhile I donned the atheist's cap but found as time passed that it really didn't fit. I'm assuming the hat you were wearing at the time you wrote this, um, enlightened, treatise really wasn't you. Was it, do you think, and you just changed? Or was it never really you? And kudos to you for putting yourself on the line like that by uploading that letter which I think most other people would be too embarrassed to. Then again, maybe they've just got more sense than you. 
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Hi Jerry, I most certainly believed all I wrote then and, gushy pre-Millenium moment that it was, I'm pretty sure I had tears in my eyes as I wrote it. I had my experiences, such as the were, my faith in the truth that Rawat, his family, the mahatmas and other authorized spiritual leaders we recognized spoke of and my determination to shore up my faith with thick mortar of satsang, service and meditation. Yes, I believed it all, no doubt about it. Unlike you, apparently, I find no redeeming insight in my parotting of cliched spiritual truisms, about the ephemeral, hopeless nature of worldly happiness, the chronic yearning for more, the fact that that more is God himself. I really do think it's all wrong. The world provides opportunities for ephemeral happiness because happiness itself is necessarily ephemeral. God has nothing to offer but hope which sounds like a lot but the price is a muzzled or dulled intellect and that's no fun. I do think that people can change their mind radically because I think I sure have. As for posting this, you're right, maybe it was reckless. I just think it's kind of funny more than anything. What's the worst someone can think? That I was in a cult?
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I wrote excruciating garbage letters and postcards to friendswhen I was a premie, and I received many myself from premie friends who felt that to write a whole letter without praising the lord somewhere in it,would be sacrilege. I found some recently.I also found gruesome satsangy postcards I sent to my mother from programmes in various parts of the world; how she must have despaired. The most recent she kept was from Berlin in 1990. Cq showed me some of his literary ramblings from when he was in the ashram. Yours, mine, cq's or any other premie's , they are all more or less the same and come across as completely insane to anyone who isn't under the spell.
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Hi Jim,
It seems to me that it's just as possible to have a dulled intellect as an atheist than as a theist. Admittedly in this world, at this time, in most societies it's more likely that an atheist has had to think a fair bit to come to that understanding. But Jerry has already gone from theism to atheism and back to theism, a lot more thought has gone into that than always being an atheist. As the final question of God's existence can never be settled Jerry or anyone might well be honing their razor sharp intellect pondering the deep questions raised by the existence of God and an atheist might be lying at home in front of the TV thinking about Big Brother. It's a sorry time for popular culture where nearly everybody doesn't have to think to realise I'm not talking about anything Orewellian.
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I think it's much more likely that an atheist will have seriously wrestled with the evidence for and against God and that's a sign of a good, working mind. If you just follow the evidence and turn a blind eye to tradition, you're not going to come up with anything close to God as we know and love his imaginary self. You might reach an impasse with the notion of "something" out there and, frankly, I don't see Jerry claiming much more than that. His good, sharp intellect gets the credit for freeing him from many of the more conventional and unsupportable God concepts.
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Well, first, thank you for the compliment, and yes, I have abandoned "conventional and unsupportable God concepts". What has me holding on is the actual experience of God where every fiber of your being is permeated by his presense. It's not easy to write off such an experience as beng nothing more than a phantasm, particularly if that experience is the most fullfilling you've ever had. But I'm open to the possibility. What can we know for certain, eh? But what would that say about the human condition? How pathetic is it if our deepest longing can only be fulfilled by something which isn't even real, yet the experience of which seems more real than real? That's maddening to even consider. Sometimes I wish I was born in the dark ages when the good old mystical experience was proof positive that God exists. Now, you have to wonder if you're not just fucked up in the head.
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I already said that about atheists probably having thought more. However as there are any number of possible Gods and religions and denominations and cults and the study of eg the New Testament can involve a lifetime, 5 or 6 languages most of which are no longer spoken, 5,000 years of history, 2,000 years of theology, etc, etc. That might be neurons dancing on the head of an electron microscope but it certainly isn't intellect dulling.
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That might be neurons dancing on the head of an electron microscope but it certainly isn't intellect dulling. Don't confuse quantity for quality, Ocker.
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Here's what I think. (in regard to Jim's comment about God as hope) Religion is for people who can't accept the limitations of being human. Maturity is the acceptance of the limitations of being human. Spiritual hope is mostly just a trap of wishful thinking. A good life can be enjoyed, but only with the wisdom of acceptance. Happiness is conditioned, and not perfect. The search for perfect happiness is futile, and stupid. I think calling happiness "necessarily ephemeral" comes close to the truth, but there's probably a better description, (not sure what that would be, at the moment). There are degrees of happiness, such as with a youthful, passing infatuation, which is ephermeral, and there is a deep contentment of knowing one has lived an authentic life, which is not ephermeral. Religion at its most benign is harmless wishful thinking, but religion at its extreme is far from benign and harmless. Religion causes a lot of needless suffering, and it does not yield much real, deep happiness. At least that is how I see the present condition of humanity on this planet. It's really pathetic, and humanity in general has a lot of growing up to do. The problem with religion is that it offers a supposed perfect happiness, but this happiness is actually at odds with our present, natural, physical life. What people need is a philosophy that is life-affirming and peace-affirming on this plane of existence, not on some otherly plane of existence. Human beings, individually, are of course at difference levels. All we can do is provide a haven for ourselves and live with as much wisdom and peace that we can. It's hard work. But that's life, so work at it. Apart from taking care of our own individual lives, there is an opportunity to make some sort of contribution to the greater good. Those people who have their own trip together, and are doing some good in this world, are the people who are the most happy. As for Rawatism and his premies, I think this religion is on the benign side, with a lot of wishful thinking. It shares the common trait of religion in that it offers a supposed perfect state of bliss that just isn't gonna happen. Premies are basically idiots to keep hoping that they are going to find some sort of inner perfection and that Rawat is going to make some sort of positive change in this world. The longer they hold on, the stupider they look. People from ignorant, backward villages in India can be excused, but not anybody else. Rawat himself is devoid of real wisdom, his vision is entirely false, and he is actually an extremely flawed human being. He is a real embarassment to people who are not his followers. (And I bet that includes some members of his own family). I do grant that we can allow ourselves a degree of hope for a greater good that is beyond our limitations. After all, we are in no position to make any final judgements. And our human limitations are indeed finite. But in the meantime, our work and our only happiness is here, living this life realistically and authentically.
Modified by Will at Fri, Jul 28, 2006, 14:10:30
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"there is a deep contentment of knowing one has lived an authentic life" "living this life realistically and authentically" What do you mean by these statements? They sound real good, but most people I know spend a great deal of energy to find out what is "authentic". I am always courious about these words when used to describe a method of feeling/thinking/acting. They can mean so many things to so many people. How did you find out what was "authentic" to yourself? Thanks (by the way I am out of town for a full week if I do not reply), Stephen B
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I so admire this piece of writing, Will, and wish I could have expressed this so succinctly and fluently: it is close to the conclusions I am coming to myself. One small additional comment.
Whether we see Rawatism as benign or not depends, somewhat, upon the degree to which it has caused lasting damage.
I agree that there are many, possibly a majority, who managed to pass through with a minimum of deep involvement. And it is not so far as we know in the league of more pro-active religious followings.
But the high level of promises and the absolute nature of the anticipated rewards often caused people to stake their whole lives upon the venture. In some cases, though there may be no physical scars, there are quite harmful psychological effects that are hard to identify as they lead people to withdraw from social life.
This harm can often only be measured in retrospect: that is: after the damage has resulted in unfortunate outcomes. These are various and hard to pin down to any one cause. Such tragedies as broken homes, broken relationships, lonely existences, depressed personalities, psychological complications, depersonalisation, suicides etc. I mean.
I am of the opinion that these types of problem are often caused by disappointments arising from the absurd and unattainable expectations associated with Rawatism, and the eventual rude awakening.
Thankyou for the great post Will,
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jul 28, 2006, 14:22:36
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I agree with virtually all of the 'negative' statements in your post but I'm afraid I find your positive ones far too idealistic.
"Those people who have their own trip together, and are doing some good in this world, are the people who are the most happy."
If only. I wish. If only it was that simple.
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| | Joy, When I hear premies like you bring the light up I feel like asking if you remember what the whole trip with the light was anyway. It wasn't a matter of just seeing it, as anyone who got Knowledge had that experience. No, the light was supposed to grow and grow, the meditations were supposed to deepen beyond our comprehension and we, through a fully dedicated and surrendered life of satsang, service and meditation, were supposed to achieve God-realization. Rawat claimed that he was in a permanent God-realized state, said that his family and the mahatmas were there too (just not at his same level, whatever that meant) and that we could be as well, as soon as we "realized" Knowledge. Of course that was all 100 per cent bullshit. Rawat was getting drunk at Millenium and screwing Marolyn. His family consisted of one goofy older brother preoccupied with aliens and silly logic (Knock Out HOUston TECsas!), a chubby simpleton and another teenager who loved guns, power and screwing hot western models like the one he married, all dominated, to the extent that she could, by one fat, dour bitch. The mahatmas were confused turkeys pretending to be holy although half of them couldn't keep their hands off the cute little braless hippie chicks dreamily batting their eyelashes at them. No one was God-realized. No one was getting God-realized. Nothing was happening, it was alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll bullshit. I laugh now when I see premies argue that the light is anything more than a cheap parlour trick but are afraid to restate what we were first led to believe about it. Anyway, you should read some science for a change. You've spent what now? Thirty years, maybe even a bit longer, reading a few spiritual poets? Maybe a few fantasy writers as well? How about checking out what science says about who we are and how we got here? You seem rather clueless about all that.
Modified by Jim at Mon, Jan 31, 2005, 09:23:19
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Modified by Steve at Sat, Jul 29, 2006, 12:31:23
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This is a shot at the beach early Sunday, the morning after. This is out on the westcoast of Vancouver Island. We were there for a beachfront rave called Soundwave.
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I won't keep doing this but, hell, it is kind of fun
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That title should get everyone looking at your post!
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we need a group pic of all the X's to send to send to M for his next B-day . obsene gestures allowed
Modified by geo at Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 17:08:50
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And just maybe M will let us take the yacht out for a 3hour tour if we promise to fill it back up with petrol when we get back
Modified by geo at Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 18:49:24
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It's all just HILARIOUS brother Ji. Now we've left the one true path and life is just one sick, deluded joke is it not? Reminds me of the 12 page letter I sent to my parents...not an invitation, just a big blast of Divine satsang. My mam FREAKED, though, as I sent something similar, and something as long, to the local priest at home. The shame! Jesus, Mary & Joseph ....the eejet!
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Maybe I've misunderstood you and you really meant that the life that produced letters like that back in 1973 was a deluded joke.
Since I left the one of oh so many "true paths" I've found life to be a loving, delightful joke not a sick, deluded joke at all.
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we've lost the Grace. It's our fault, of course, but there ya go... not everyone can be a true devotee.
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Its been so long since I have seen a letter like that. Really appalling. I think Ted Patrick might have been a good idea, but better in the end you got out yourself. Gosh just painful to read. But brave and good of you to post it for many many reasons. Thanks
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Jim, you couldn't spell "Millennium" then, and you still can't!! Those days and those beliefs seem so very far away and I am so glad for that. I think I mentioned that in the Chicago ashram, all the ashram premies sat in meditation as one by one, the premies went into another room and made phone calls asking for money for Millennium from friends and relatives. Some people got quite a bit of cash as I recall. That's one thing I just didn't do. I kind of pretended I did, but I never did. I like the line about how your Mom and sister are going to find out how significant Rawat is, and then they are going to complain that you didn't do more than just send them a letter. I remember thinking similar things. The world was going to find out, and they would know I really had something great. When that never happened, there was a lot of repression and thought control that had to take place. Thanks for the letter, Jim. I think I also mentioned that my Mom saved all my letters to her from my cult days and one day she presented them to me. I was never so mortified in my entire life. I burned them.
Modified by Joe at Sat, Jul 29, 2006, 22:48:42
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Or maybe it's Victorian. I don't know. Leave me alone, though, eh? I'm processing .... What strikes me most about the letter is that it bears a certain combination of intelligence (if I don't say so myself!), outrageous naivite, boilerplate cultspeak and a patina of original expression. If one didn't know better -- as we all do now -- one might even think I knew what I was talking about and actually had something of interest to say. And that's just me. Just another, run-of-the-mill cult member, no different than any of us who allowed ourselves to steep for years in Rawat's poisonous arti (apologies for shitty pun which, for some reason, I cannot and will not erase). Point being that it isn't that hard to run this jive. Anyone can do it. Just like the Islamic mullahs run their riffs with so much confidence and feigned "knowingness" -- without really knowing shit. I must say I laugh everytime I read that pathetic money grab and, my favorite part, the recommendation that they run out and buy (where? At the ashram?) the latest issue of "And it is Divine." I am a character in my own Kurt Vonnegut book. I am a character in my own Kurt Vonnegut book. I am a character .....
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You weren't the only one; I know I did it too. But between the lines and the words so many of us laid on people who hadn't received knowledge was an incredible arrogance, dressed up as humility and gratitude. You were explaining it all to them in your infinite understanding which they just didn't have. It's actually incredibly egotistical and arrogant. If you want to see more incredible arrogance, just watch that sickening, nonsensical, Tim Gallwey video somebody put it. Spiritual and "new-age" enlightenment ego is just the worst. Partly, because it pretends to be humble. I think anybody who was ever a premie and is now an ex can pretty much spot spiritual ego at 100 yards.
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Are you channelling Julie?
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You know perfectly well we don't have special dictionaries in BC.
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