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Besides raising a little prurient interest in watching Harvey Keitel make a move on Kate Winslet (wow, did anyone see that coming?!), the movie was just plain terrible.
Modified by Jim at Mon, Jul 24, 2006, 22:11:52
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With ice cream on top. Wow! That is amazing - I had no idea that it was an actual movie, and I can't think how I blanked out Harvey Keitel. Thanks for the name, OTS and Jim. I read a couple of reviews and found it interesting (to me, anyway), how my perception of the movie was so different from that of the reviewers. X rented it to make a point as to how he saw my attitude about m, so I saw it as a movie about cults that was strongly biased toward the cult viewpoint and hated it accordingly. From the reviews I read, it seems to have been all about the tacky sex as metaphor for male-female sexual power, etc. - Campion's formulaic feminism as later repeated in the Piano (where Harvey reprised his usual role as a brutal and arrogant thug, but got redeemed at the end this time). Religion wasn't even the issue, according to the reviews - just the vehicle. Hmmm. I'll have to rent both together and see if I think differently this time. Or maybe I won't bother. Thanks for enlightening me, px.
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Actually the Piano which as I recall, got rave reviews and Oscar nominations came first. Ms Campion made it in the early 90's and Holy Smoke in the late 90's. I haven't watched Holy Smoke because I didn't like the Piano and Oh yeah I remember seeing some shorts in a local documentary in which her family would have been enough to send me back to a guru. And I find this old man / young woman sex obsession that hollywood has sleazy and unattractive.
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Yes, I see you're right there. I get mixed up on dates because I rarely see movies in the theatre... didn't see the Piano until last year, and only saw Holy Smoke because X insisted. The story lines are pretty similar though - men (ALL aka abusive, brutal jerks) work out their power issues on women (ALL aka victimized, but sensitive and strong), women eventually win anyway. Jane Campion doing Spike Lee doing chick-flicks. Urgg. I feel silly, actually, assuming that Holy Smoke was just a pro-cult apologia, but there doesn't seem to be much dispute that it was one of the lousier movies of all time. No wonder I was having such a hard time remembering anything about it.
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but to help you to understand what happened to your ex there was a minor movie I saw a long time ago on TV called Split Image which I recall had a good scene showing how a person can move into becoming a cult believer by empathising with another person "giving satsang". I can't remember much more about it. I guess I should get a copy and have a look myself. I think even those people who post here with the greatest venom would agree that there was much in the early Divine Light Mission that was very nice especially in the interaction between the much younger premies.
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I remember, with glowing memories, times when, like minded people gathered for worthy causes.
I have proud memories of my own generation, on the Aldermaston marches, legalize pot rallies in Hyde Park in the mid sixties, Jim Hendrix at Woburn Abbey. The high wasn't just about music and substances, it was us, all of us. Our generation.
We were a collective forged from a move to go in a different direction. This was all done and waiting for m to jump in and take for a collective drive (with blocks on the pedals).
The best times, at programmes, I thought, was between satsangs, just wondering round meeting premie after smiling premie. There are too many to remember all the people you know, so there is a pleasant surprise as you see people you recognise approaching, laughing in the sun.
The smiles don't have time to wear off before the next reunion, this was a life affirming experience. I had to thank maharaj ji for bringing us all together in the sunshine. By the end of the day my face was aching from smiling so much. This group experience probably sustains religious belief in many cult followings, and passes for spiritual energy often, I suspect.
In my aged opinion, it is more healthy to just enjoy an open air rock concert, recognising the extra buzz from the crowd for what it is.
Only try not to let little gurus on the stage next time, or any where near a mic.
Modified by LP at Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 06:45:58
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And it had a great, great theme song. I didn't care for Holy Smoke but I did enjoy the scene where Kate Winslet had her third eye openned and got blissed out. I also liked Harvey Keitel's mirage of Kali. Or was that Durga? Outside of that I wasn't too impressed.
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I liked The Piano too. Holy Smoke was unbelievable and embarrassing trash.I have to concede that Harvey Keitel was sooo sleeeeazy that he must be a good actor ( as he was in The Piano )....either that or he really is that creepy. There was that one picturesque scene when Kate is returning through the heat of the desert.
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I think that part of the point of The Piano was actually the music itself (utterly unforgettable).
I can't really support this statement, but I believe this to be true. Also, in regard to Holy Smoke, I watched it at the time, and thought that there was more to it than met the eye, and was to do with more complex points than just the obvious. I thought it to do with how the Harvey Keitel character ended up - his realisations. I wasn't just the straightforward film it purported. I also enjoyed seeing Kate Winslet piss naked in the desert, as the Falcon also enthused about. I think that scene was actually very touching. I think it's easy to write off what was possibly a much better film than met the eye. I think that it was far more than just a shallow cult deprogramming movie, though it is obviously the immediate temptation to limit it this way.
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Anthony, Who'd have thought that you, of all people, would think there was more than what met the eye in that movie? I can't believe it!! 
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Anthony, Holy Smoke was a shit film. Art should not have to be read into. It should HIT YOU, profoundly and with no effort on your part but to be in the audience. It should draw you in, you should naturally gravitate to it, not seek it's hidden meanings. That's good art. That's when it works. Outside of a few compelling scenes Holy Smoke was lame. Sorry.
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Just rewatched it, and refreshed my memory. Yes, it isn't a bad film. Thing is, if read as just a cult deprogramming film, it probably annoys many as being flippant or disrespectful of the powerful emotions involved in cult withdrawal, and combining this with dark comedy. I have seen other films concerning cult entrapment and liberation, which are very effective and compelling, because authentic and straightforward narratives. Jane Campion's film is all about male female relationship on different levels, including not only Kate, Harvey, the guru, but the dumb bimbo sister, the husband shagging his secretary, and so on. In the end, Kate is freed from guru clutches, and ends up with her mum back in India working in some humanitarian centre, after learning compassion from Harvey. He ends up with a fulfilling relationship with his wife, and twins, after learning more subtle emotional response instead of being a dyed haired egoist prat in cowboy boots. He is also writing a novel about the experience, as he tells Kate by email a year later. Interestingly, his hair is still dyed, which may have been a slight blunder. I thought once again it has various positive messages, and enjoyed watching Kate and Harvey generally (fan of both) in a Campion film (fan of Jane). Though, as I say, I can sympathise with people who feel that cult involvement is too serious a subject to be woven into the wider themed darkly 'humorous' film which Jane has made.
Modified by Anthony at Sat, Jul 29, 2006, 03:56:58
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First, you said there was more than met the eye, which is what my response was to. Now, you say it was pretty clear. I'll assume that's your take after a second viewing. That's fair enough if that's the case. And yes, I vaguely remember the "message" of the film that you just explained. But a message in a film only works if the film has artistic merit. I saw Holy Smoke, largely, as a failure in that regard.
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Shitty Shitty Bang Bang. Kabir
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