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This is an X Premie forum .There were really descent premeies and there were really screwed up premies trying and I mean SCREWED up.May be your spouse is who you should be talking to and not us .BUT better go to www.expremie.org/inde.html. browse the journeys section ,there are good testamonials of peoples experience . That may answer some of your questions . Cause it sounds like you are headed for a divorce to me .
Modified by geo at Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 13:57:36
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I think she has read the journeys already. Andries
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Thanks I'll stay out of this one
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Ofcourse she knows this is an ex premie forum! Duh! I can't help thinking that your responce is cold and rude. I like reading her posts. She has contributed more here than you have IMHO. And I like her questions too. Hilltop
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Yup a great question I have so often thought about this myself. It is all about getting close to the guru is it not and doing what ever it takes to think you can please him. No room for lovin' just worship something that don't give a toss. No wonder premies look confused and bland.
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I love this post Peter, It contains a lot of truth in a compact form.
This phrase is great: No room for lovin' just worship something that don't give a toss.
Lp ( I just had the strangest deja vu experience)
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Hi,
To a certain extent I agree with what you say. But I do still know (of) a fair few premie marriages though I don't know of a single marriage that lasted from the early 70's though that's not to say there aren't any. What seems to have happened is that premies became somewhat like a caste system. Wealthy premies hang out, married premies hang out, really committed premies hang out, marginalised premies hang out with each other. This is after all quite a natural state of affairs for humans.
I agree there is no overall love between premies though there are some very close and long term friendships. Within the committed premies who run the org there is the normal interpersonal problems, possibly exacerbated because some of them are a bit disturbed which is why they're committed.
OTOH they do not consider this a problem, remember it's not supposed to be a club. It's supposed to be you and the guru. That might just be because Rawat has to adjust his message to some semblance of reality. There's no point saying Knowledge makes you happy and healthy when he looks like a jowly dwawf bullfrog on steroids so they may have dropped the idea of charitas cause it would be too obviously false.
While I was never really estranged from my family I look back with great fondness for the open arms I received when I began to return to the fold more often and that is certainly something I treasure.
I'm just watching a video where he said "But if you're gonna have doubts about it,
if you and doubts sometimes comes you know even trying to compare other
persons' experience "Oh that person must have better experience than
me." That that throws the doubt in there. It's over"
I think he's talking about other premies but really it's much wider than that. I believe that it is the unspoken comparison with other premies that they believe are having a better experience that keeps many premies on the roundabout.
Yes, I've also met people who just bowl you over with their love and life but it's been a long time since I met a premie who personified those qualities.
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Premies, we know you read this forum. I am positve of some premies who read here. We certainly know EV is here constantly, if not the mirage-y himself. Can you answer this question? What is it that you are loving when you call yourselves "lovers"?
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That is up to each individual ,but it comes from the bride & bridegroom metaphore , that is used from India ,Persia & the book . Kabir used it ,Krishna used it ,old testament used it ,Jesus used it .M is abusing it ! an abusive lover isolates ,censors ,and tells the abused one what to believe ! It is not physical abuse but phsycological abuse , it is like having a controling lover . In other words a typical pshco BITCH from hell . Or an alcholic male lover that dose the same to his women , without the physical abuse .
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And what was "truth"? Truth was the "consciousness of bliss", otherwise know as sat, chit, and anand. I forget which meant what, though. But that's what a premie was, a lover of truth. That's what I was told.
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They perpetually seem to be waiting. I have no idea what they are waiting for, and I would doubt that they do, either.
'I'm going, I'm going, where the water tastes like wine; jump in the water, stay drunk all the time'.
Canned Heat 1969.
I recognise myself in your description of premies. I was one for 28 yrs & it goes deep. All I can say to date, is that my understanding of what love is, has been retarded by Prem Rawat, but I'm not about to give up just yet on the search.
I see now that it was the cruelty in my character which he nurtured, not the love, & I'm still, dimly, groping towards an explanation of how I allowed that to happen.
Thanks for posing the question.
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That really hits a nail with me PatD; which was a strong reason to give it up.
The realization, I mean, that he was only nurturing our selfish, more negative side and numbing our positive side. (as I see it our general love for humankind.)
It is honest of you to observe this in yourself, it may to the honest searching premie, be observed there (in oneself), and in the others' personality shifts all across the board.
We might have noticed one or two who started from an extreme position, but we were numb to being able to be honest when it came to assessing the effect of knowledge. It was practically agya to say that we were improving as a group, (including our love) as well as individually.
I never liked the way, when someone got a service to do, (especially if this took them close to maharaji), they breezed through the common herd of darshan thirsty premies with a vacant look that went right through us and out the other side, as if we weren't there.
Close involvement with m was a greater virtue than mere love of people.
Modified by LP at Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 05:24:41
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I honestly don't think many premies read this forum, at
least at this time. Otherwise, I think I am going to
find out the hard way if any Austin premies read it, in
a week or so  >My question, though is, who or what is it that you love? I had understood that premie was a non-gender-specific
term equivalent to gopi. You can connect the dots from there. >I see no evidence of true lovers of humanity I will freely admit that I have no love for humanity per se.
Seriously, who would? >or indeed of anything. Simply not true. People, premies or not, need to love, unless
they are emotionally crippled. Ahem... Let's just move on
to your next point... >Not one of them is a premie. Some of them are, you just may not have met them. >I'm speaking in generalities here Agreed. >Oddest of all, premies don't even seem to love other premies. From my life experience, emphatically not true. >So, premies, you who call yourselves lovers, who or what is it
>that you love? Premies, my friend, are people. The appellation, IMHO,
expresses a desire to love something higher and more
perfect in us all. In all honesty, part of that is loving
Maharaji, who premies (and I) believe has opened a door
of understanding and insight that we could not otherwise
open ourselves. Sean "I am now offically donning my flame-proof suit" Leary
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....hot and sweaty in your flame proof suit Sean. The information that Mr Rawat gives is available in print and from sources that do not require surrendering ones life. I remember that love, devotion and surrender to Mr Rawat, as the incarnation of the Supreme, were an integral part of the mechanics of Knowlege. This love was constantly encouraged and assumed to be alive in every Premie. I was manipulated into repeating a vow of love and surrender to Mr Rawat in order to receive the information of the techniques of Knowlege. Manipulated because, no vow, no K! so I parroted this prayer to him in the hope it would blossom into reality. There was never a blossoming, only growing dismay at the separation of my whipped up feelings for Mr Rawat and the messages from my core that something was out of synch. So Sean, the heat you feel may not be from those denying Mr Rawats claims, but from "within inside" yourself as the reality of the situation hits. Try this! Find a picture of Mr Rawat, maybe one of your favourites. Stare at it for a while. Then say with all the sincerity you can muster.... "Prem Pal Sing Rawat, I love you with all my heart and surrender the reins of my life to you!" If you do try my foolish experiment, please let me know how it went. turey.
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I had understood that premie was a non-gender-specific term equivalent to gopi. You can connect the dots from there. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Not every premie is or has been a gopi. You really never did pay attention, did you? Btw, this forum is monitored by Elan Vital. Has been for years. They probably have a dossier on you. They have one on all of us and everyone who posts here. Here's a post from a wife of a premie that came here to warn us of EV's paranoid behavior. Read it. http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/6012.html
Related link: Ask a premie, Sean
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 11:12:11
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Premies, my friend, are people. The appellation, IMHO,
expresses a desire to love something higher and more
perfect in us all. In all honesty, part of that is loving
Maharaji, who premies (and I) believe has opened a door
of understanding and insight that we could not otherwise
open ourselves.
There is nothing higher or more perfect in us all except the ability to formulate rules for living, & the will to stick to them regardless of how inconvenient that may be.
Belief in Prem Rawat & his bullshit actually interferes with that. To what extent depends on the individual, but when you connect with the brethren in Austin you'll be in a position to form your own judgement, won't you?
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My question, though is, who or what is it that you love? Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji aka Maharaji. And if you really love him, send him money.
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Interesting question, p.s. I am an ex-premie at this point and post from time to time. I hope you don't mind if I take your question as an opportunity to thoughtfully reflect.
While I was a premie I felt that meditation and "darshan" opened me up to the feeling of "love" inside me. I now understand that Rawat of course had no real control of that but was an object of devotion for me that allowed me to feel love of which I am capable as a human being. Once I was feeling this love, regardless of how it was triggered, I believe I was generally a more pleasant person to be around. However, because I was programmed to believe that this "love" was because of Rawat and was to be directed back to him, I didn't use my love to any purpose that contributed to society. I remember feeling frustrated from time to time that I wasn't doing anything to help other people, just sending money to Rawat and doing a little local volunteering to keep the faithful hooked and bring in more. Of course I rationalized that he was doing much more good than I could by travelling around the world and "enlightening" people. There was also the problem that devotion to Rawat was my #1 priority over family and spouse, which caused many conflicts and compromises over the years.
About a year ago I had my first "love" relationship with someone since I became an ex-premie. I noticed that I felt very similar feelings to those I had felt while meditating and towards Rawat. I haven't really figured it out yet, but I think in my case at least, I fell in love with Rawat (or my idea of him since I didn't meet the real guy till much later) and became hooked on the feeling which I had to keep nourishing with meditation and regular exposure to Rawat's manipulation. Or it may be that the love trigger became so hard-wired in me from 29 years of it that I easily feel it when in a relationship, probably too easily.
I would be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this subject while we wait for premies to chime in.
Mary (Moore)
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Hi Mary, Your post covers some of my own questions re. the way that Meditation triggered that "love" feeling. I found that the "love" I felt was often inappropriate in every day life.I was "opened up" , gullible and very vulnerable to exploitation by the kind of people who can detect this kind of weakness from 1000 metres.Often the people I felt "love" towards deserved nothing from me ( and they knew it ). I rummaged around in the archives as I remembered an old post of Susan's which IMO contained some useful advice. ( see link) A pity your post is hidden away down here as it was very interesting. Best wishes, Lexy.
Related link: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/f8archive/posts/8523.html
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