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I'm having a visceral reaction. No, really, at this moment I'm feeling a strong revulsion to Tim Gallwey and every last little but overblown and pompous thing he stands for. I'll say it again. As one of the "premie assistance" head goofballs manning the tables, I held the guy's hand when he was a freaked out premie ghost roaming the Kissimee "festival" site in '79 or '80 (or whenever that really heavy one happened). Despite the fact that he had truly overdosed and was cracking up on Rawat's poison then, he was still one of the coldest and most arrogant people I've ever met. And to think that he made such an undeserved, presumably way-too-comfortable Malibu life for himself, sharing a bit of the guru vibe with his ridiculous cult leader .... it's too much. I wish him nothing but ill-will. There, does that qualify?
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That way you can raise money and not disclose anything to the public. I never knew Gallwey personally, although I did try to read one of his "inner game" books about tennis, which the cult allowed him to sell at festivals, but it wasn't my cup of tea to say the least. But I have to say, I rarely have gotten as angry as I did when I saw him lie like a rug in the Passages Video, and I really did take it personally because he basically said that we all left the cult because we wanted a religion and Rawat was valiantly eliminating the religious overtones of the cult. We all got so freaked over that, that we left, being as we loved the ashrams so much, as well as all the Hindu mythology. That is just a huge lie, spun at the expense of people who sincerely tried to follow Rawat, to explain why most of Rawat's followers have split, and to try to make Rawat look good. It's just beyond slimey. I know exactly what you mean about the visceral reaction. It's down in my colon someplace, I think. I have also heard that quite a few current smart-card-carrying premies cannot stand him.
Modified by Joe at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 20:08:01
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I've recently spent far too much time watching the Passages video and I know exactly what you two are saying. I've heard on the grapevine that once the World Cup is over further transcriptions of parts of that video may be posted on www.ex-premie.org/video.What really struck me was that many of the people "interviewed" might really believe the nonsense they were spouting. So they deserve some sympathy. I was disgusted by Glen Whitaker revealing that he knew all along about Rawat's family arguments and how he thought mother and elder brother were just in it for the money. Thanks Glen for not telling that in satsang. That's 'sat' for truth telling, the company of truth, you lying scumbag but then maybe he is just the dumb palooka he appears to be. After all anyone believing that anyone will believe that porky about the Young Conservatives wanting to "receive Knowledge" after just one of his satsangs may well believe anything. Oh and Prem Rawat later "teaching" that his family had never believed he was the Perfect Master. Thanks for that teaching Glen and thanks to you too Prem, you lying scumbag. While I was meditating on Holy Name with full idealistic fervour before giving satsang, to tell truth from the heart, you were talking about how "just one spark of this Knowledge and absolutely Perfect" and posing for pictures with your "Holy Family" all the time you knew they were lying about you being the "Perfect Master" and that means you were lying about them too. You'd think I could hardly get more virulent in my condemnation but really Tim Gallwey was the end. He was certainly intelligent enough to know he was lying through his teeth. What a pompous shit and how dare he pour scorn on people who left Knowledge, all 90% or more of them, claiming they left cause they couldn't give up their Maharagee Religion for the real experience. I don't know exactly why most of them left but I presume it was because they were looking for a real Perfect Master and a real Knowledge that was a real meditation on God and not the Maharagee religion that they got.
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One thing to consider is that Tim Gallwey and others have financial interests tied to Rawat and therefore do what they can to promote and protect him (through lying if necessary) to keep the whole charade going. For others, I think, it really is possible to delude yourself into thinking that black is white, and history can really be rewritten in your own head to avoid any discrepancy. I have talked to premies who claim to have only the most vague memories of their pasts as premies, when I can remember the same events vividly. I think selective amnesia is a defense mechanism, in that regard. But you are right that it's really quite different to just blatantly lie, like Whittaker and Gallwey, not to mention Ron Geaves. That's a different story altogether. It's one thing to delude yourself, which is understantable (I did it myself for years), but it isn't okay to delude others, which Gallwey attempts to do.
I agree that Glen Whittaker's comments are lame and weasily, and entirely unbelievable. His whole discussion about saris is just laughable, and pretty pathetic. The problem for the cult is that the Passages video got made at all. For the cult, it's much better just to lie through omission or avoidance. But to actually put that stuff on video so that it can be dissected and rebutted, was really stupid. I wonder if at some point Rawat well tell people to destroy the Passages video like he did that stuff from the 70s. I'm sure it will be no more successful if he tries.
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but I didn't have any trouble believing Ron Geaves could actually believe his revisionism, especially that nonsense about the "Box". I have an awful lot of trouble believing he's smart enough to be a Professor, an eccentric High School English teacher, maybe.
I also think many premies have only the vaguest memories of the 70's though I don't speculate on the psychological mechanisms that underly that. There are theories that state memory is basically a text we recreate constantly and I think the power of the concentration during satsang and the trance state it can create even for a minimum of an hour a week could imprint Rawat's text over the remembrance of 20 or 30 years' past especially if you have reasons for wanting to forget parts of that past. And the fact that the (Perfect) Master wants you to must be a pretty good reason, conscious or otherwise.
On the other hand, and with the caveat that I've only watched it once, the Atlanta Training video shows the premies bursting into applause only when Rawat mentions "good" things from the '70's. They also seemed to miss Rawat's cues once or twice where he seemed to be expecting applause when the 70's wasn't being mentioned.
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In the Passages video everyone loudly proclaims that Maharaji never, ever, said he was god or a savior, that was all the fault of the sari brigade. Notice, however, an instrumental version of Arti playing subliminally in the background. Is that an appropriate song for a motivational speaker? Sleazy manipulation I say. And I don't think I ever saw a premie woman wearing a sari.
Modified by Steve at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 16:33:01
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Holy shit Andries,
Talk about split-second mental telepathy. Now did you send me that message or was I reading your mind? (Just joking, it might be true but not in my world)
Yes that's not a sari, though it is Indian, isn't it?
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Just ordinary, vaguely spiritual, hippie clothes.
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But James is wearing a dhoti
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 16:51:13
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that is not a sari although I do rememember her wearing them in '72. It makes absurd the claim that the sari brigade all left when, in fact, one of the originals is touring UK as we speak, spreading the news of whatever bulls**t 'phase' that Rawat is currently ushering in. One guarantee - it will involve donations.
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Hi Falcon,
good to hear from you whenever you post, Thankyou.
I hear you... on the donations.. guaranteed.
It's odd that anyone who believed all the hype then, and even remembers it for any reason, is dismissed in these odd little catch phrases.
Like .. Oh they're just ............ (fill in the blank). As if their little naming and shaming game invalidated the fact that this is one big confidence trick. it only works when sufficient, yes, brainwashing, has taken place.
What else are we gonna call it, not merely selling a con for money. This is not just a rip off.
This is actually capturing the minds of people and making them into slaves who will work hard all their lives and never say anything bad about him, and give him more than they can afford, putting home and family in jeopardy.
Only when they have been so indoctrinated and can prove that the (shall we say) hypnotic effect of sitting for hours inside, watching endless DVD's of drivvle until your mind is mush, has taken place, are they considered ready. The initiator is trained in one thing above all others.
To be able to tell when someone is ready. Remember the story they used tell sometimes?
In guru nanak's day he used to, so the story went in the mission, have a huge tent where people would go for knowledge selection.
In the tent certain of his X rated followers, would be holding goats.
He or the initiator would ask: would you give your head for this knowledge? The partially hypnotised aspirant would, hesitatingly, say yes.
He would go into the tent. The X rated followers would cut the head off a goat and let the blood run out from under the tent.
All the other aspirants would run away. When they got home their wives gave them satsang: told them how despicable and cowardly they were. The women said I would give my head in a heartbeat.
The next day the men came back ashamed and said they would give their head if guru maharaj ji wanted it.
One by one, the men went in, the goats were decapitated, a river of blood ran out from the tent, but still the aspirants kept on coming in.
They of course found themselves still alive, and a lot of dead goats.
And the moral (relative to your post)
It's not what you wear it's what you do.
They don't do this today of course, but the principle is the same. The test is not for what you know or understand, nothing to do with whether you're a true seeker. You have to practically be a premie before you can get knowledge. It is a carrot on a stick that turns into a dry root on the other side.
"Would you give your mind for this knowledge", they asked me, but it was obvious if I'd said no, I'd be out on my ear.
With all the satsang I had been steam rollered with, my head was still ringing. I imagined that I was going to receive instant enlightenment.
"Yes," I said handing them three flowers.
Lp
Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 07:20:03
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An instrumental version of arti is also played in one of the Keys. New people would not know what it is but if it was to be played at a program (as it was in Amaroo in 2001 or 2002?) that they attend an association might be made in their minds. Kabir
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 19:51:17 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: spin doctors vs. integrity
Message:
| Most people have left the maha cult because of the rugu massa and his org's elephant dung piles, NOT because they wanted an Indian religion. Secondly, I think generic breath and light meditation is ok -- but greedy, deceitful rugus suck! That's the reason I finally left. You don't need an external false guru. If you have some simple meditation techs that work for you, fine. But always follow your own inner guru - the universal lifeforce. You don't need bogus external guru worship on a spiritual path, especially a two-faced rugu. Tim appeared intent on being a gurupie and a honcho, and capitalizing on it to make some big bucks from his inner game spinoffs, when he clearly couldn't make it as a pro tennis player. From day one, he was always jumping up into the chair at Wilton Place [in Hollywood] to pontificate at satsang. He always wanted special treatment - and apparently got it. From Harvard brat to Malibu rugu lapdog. Tim wrote in the preface of the Inner Game of Tennis: '...for Guru Maharaj Ji
who showed me what Winning is Men play games because
God first plays a Game.' Yeah, like winning at the game of how to set yourself up as a honcho, sucker people, and milk their pocketbooks -- a modern premie success story. That's why maha likes him -- because Tim kisses his ass, imitated what he saw [incl a Malibu estate], and made a bundle, too. Maha respects those with money and position, despite any statements to the contrary. That's why those folks get front-row seats [money talks in the cult!], and the devotee 'loosers' go second-class. That's why maha had his subordinates actively solicit city keys, award presentations, bicentennial speeches, etc. And the reason why maha has to have a jet as big and luxurious as Bill Gates, and so forth, is because he's compensating for something fundamental that he sorely lacks... Everything that the maha cult worship hymn arti taught us was darkness and 'maya' [worldly materialist illusion] -- maha and Tim totally went for. While most premies were practicing humility, surrender, service, dedications, meditation - maha and Tim went after the big bucks. Passive premies and gullible New Age fanciers/seekers were therefore easy marks. It's also interesting to me that maha didn't like lowly premies even renting a house near him on Anacapa View. [As if they had no right moving into his neighborhood.] I also remember Tim and Gary Girard setting up the yoga tennis trip in Malibu -- for the jet-set New Age trendy dilettantes. btw, What did Tim ever do as manual labor for service? I never saw him set up chairs at programs, mop floors, wash cars, or even pull weeds by hand at the residence, or sweep maha's driveway with a broom. No, he was busy making materialist bucks for himself, while other premies toiled and sweated free for maha. Then, Tim got to be a honcho instructor -- and the lowly humble devotees remained lowly and subservient underlings. (So, Tim Gallwey's book preface really should have read, in truth [and regarding maha's own personal credo]: You can tell the men from the boys by the price of their toys!) Same thing with Mike Nouri. Michael spent a little time around grunt premies, then went back into films for the fame and bucks -- and the babe action. Then, Mike waltzes in when it's convenient and ends up as the celebrity maha spokesperson. What are these guys really devotees of, in fact? Their materialist ego desires -- just like maha. That's why they are members of maha's exclusive private circle. The opposite of what maha and his org taught us to aspire to. aka sharks versus marks. bogus. plastic [as we used to say, way back when]. Every megalomaniacal tyrant and crook needs his apologists, revisionists, spin doctors, and sycophants. A truthful person of integrity doesn't need any public relations spin doctoring. Gandhi and Mother Theresa didn't have forked tongue spin doctors! Neither did Jesus, Buddha, Kabir, Rumi, Surdas, Tulsidas, Ramakrishna, Mira Bai, et al, when they were around. American president Harry Truman once said, 'The Only people who get rich in politics are Crooks!' Well, the same thing applies to spirituality and religions, as well as to alleged charitable and non-profit organizations. Genuinely spiritual people do NOT misuse position or abuse power to make themselves filthy rich, especially at the expense of others who are trusting in them. And a person who has not even mastered himself or his own unbridled material desires, gluttony, and lust is clearly no master of other human beings. |
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I am sorry to have missed that time, I read EPO quite a few times, was exed, but had not had the liberating experience of posting myself. And yet I realise from his story that I must have known him, his vividly clear style of communication seems, in fact, familiar to me. I hope he is well, especially if he is the old friend from those days I am thinking of, whose satsangs I loved.
His posts were brilliant!
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 04:48:32
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Wake Up Premies You know that Miragey likes to quote Kabir. But have you noticed that he never refers to the sections of Kabir's work, which state verbatim that a true saint or perfect master never accepts money, gifts, or wealth from one's devotees? Did you know that when Miragey did the vehicular manslaughter and then the hit-and-run, he also had an innocent premie servant falsely take the legal blame? That's another felony, in addition to the hit/run he committed. Did you know that Miragey committed another criminal felony, when he ordered Mike Donner to 'get Fakiranand out of the country' - to avoid the arrests and prosecution of Fakiranand + his accomplices in the attempted murder of Detroit reporter Pat Halley. M was also protecting Rajaji, who had been instigating the mahatmas and WPC to avenge the pie-throwing incident. Did you know how many innocent people Miragey & DLM top officials moved like pawns in the attempted homicide and aiding and abetting of fugitive criminals and the org cover-up? Dozens of unsuspecting premies. Did you know that Marolyn's husband Miragey had Michael Dettmers procure young blonde premie women for his sexual pleasure, and then dumped them abruptly after he got it? Did you know that the writing of Sarupanandji and other gurus do not indicate a legitimate descent of guruship to the materialist rawat clan - which is drowning in its own ill-gotten maya - but rather through a historical series of renunciants? Did you know that people reported even back in the 1970s that Miragey knew that Jagdeo was doing stuff with premie children at the Unity School in a closed room with the lights off? Have you seen the lies and spin doctoring by M’s official representatives on the subject? Did you know that while Miragey was publicly accepting self-promotional civic awards and telling premies not to do drugs or drink alcohol, he was smoking cigs, imbibing cognac and smoking pot, too? Did you know that the IRS was auditing Divine Light Mission, and that Miragey had Dettmers and others create a new org and shell corporations which would allow Miragey to divert and monopolize the donation revenues for himself and his extended family [e.g. Raja ji] without legal investigation or prosecution for tax fraud? Just in 1982 alone, more than $100 million was raised? Where did it all go? 'It isn't easy to be rich. Once you have one million dollars, then you need two million...' etc. - Miragey at Long Beach How about M’s and EVI's present claims that he never said he was god or a savior? Who is Guru Maharaj Ji ? The 'authentic authorized story': 'Why do more than six million people around the world claim he is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of this planet? Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar?' -- DLM/EVI, Bantam Books, 1973 'God is the same, but now we look for Him to come in a new way, to give His Knowledge. Jesus gave this Knowledge, Krishna gave this Knowledge, but now we must look again for a new Master to show us the light. I have not come to establish a new religion or sect, but I have come to give you Knowledge...' -- Miragey ...'they expect God Himself to come, they pray for it, they ask for it, they announce about it, but when He comes they fail to recognize Him. And not recognizing Him is His physical form they cannot recognize him within themselves.' -- Miragey ...'whenever he comes to the physical world, the Perfect Master has to tolerate many difficulties.' – Miragey ‘Dear Reader, by the grace of Almighty Lord, we bring you the magazine And It Is Divine. You will find this magazine very different from others, because it shows not only the suffering of the world, but also a way out for all humanity. There has never been a time when the Lord of Creation did not manifest Himself in human form, and come to this planet Earth to do away with evil and spread the True Knowledge. But history is a pendulum, which is always in swing. There have been so many scriptures, but still people have never been able to understand Him. Divine Light Mission wants to bring world peace by sharing the Knowledge, which is within us by the grace of Almighty Lord. In this magazine, we hope to give information about the peace, which lives within us, which Guru Maharaj Ji reveals. – Signed Sant Ji Maharaj (Guru Maharaj Ji 's preface to the DLM magazine 'And It Is Divine' published for approximately 10 years in the 70's and early 80's)’ 'We have to find this Word by a teacher, a guide. A guide who is perfect, and who can teach this perfect Knowledge to us. A perfect guide can guide us. You need a burning lamp to light other lamps. So, in the same way you need an enlightened Perfect Master to make you enlightened and perfect also. IF THE MASTER HIMSELF IS NOT PERFECT, HOW CAN HE MAKE YOU PERFECT? YOU NEED A PERFECT Master.' -- Miragey 'when Satguru comes... He is perfect, He was perfect, and He will be perfect... A devotee is sitting in America, Guru is sitting in India, but both have a very powerful connection...so, remember. We have to find that God, that person who is perfect... So, remember: we are part of Him who has manifested Himself as a Guru and who has come into this earth, and now we have to be One with Him. We have to completely merge and make our souls one with Him because He is perfect, and once we merge with Him we will also be perfect.' - Miragey [aka Maharaji aka Guru Maharaj Ji ], 15 years old, 1973 Shri Hans Productions Either these words were and are all true, or you-know-who was and is a lying sack of you-know-what. [The EVI spin doctors, too!] Yes, I have seen big piles from elephants, but never have I seen such huge stinky piles of deluded demonic invention/reinvention! We must exorcise these personality cult demons that have been possessing the spirits, minds, and bodies of our beloved brothers and sisters! Who falsely fed us the saviour, avatar, messiah, and Krishna concepts? He and his family did - just look at the stupid costumes, crowns, the specially constructed stages, Krishna lila gopis' dance and the Lord Christ plays, Millenium, the thrones, the posing and the pictures, the official distorted guru worship rituals of bowing, arti, toe-kissing, etc. - all the real b.s. M personally authorized and approved all those concepts and rites - and he still feeds that elephant dung in piles to those brainwashed people who will eat it - because, frankly, it empowers dysfunctional him, Miragey, in their enabling codependent lives, and disempowers them as independent, free-thinking human beings. We're talking practically terminally brainwashed r.e. some of the premie old-timers. Incidentally, did you know that countless people have regularly experienced brilliant inner light etc. way before and way after hearing about the maha - or never having heard about him? Did you know that some people here have experienced inner light, music, breath power, nectar, way before ever receiving techs from M or his agents? I have experienced inner light since I was a child. That light has nothing to do with M. How to approach one's own light, sounds, breath, and being are not the property of any self-styled guru, master, teacher. The secrecy M insists upon for these universal techniques and his related cult-enforced monopoly on speaking about the so-called knowledge, only serve to empower him in a cult capacity and to extract tens of millions of dollars from his devotees for luxuries for his [and his family's] exclusive use. The so-called knowledge comes with strings - so, it's not free - strings to Miragey as the false master of one's fate and life. Tell anyone with a functioning brain that this isn't a personality cult or religion? Using the strings of false guru attachment, cult reinforcement and propaganda, Big Brother video scenarios, demonization of the human intellect, cult peer pressure, guilt trips, and the inflated god-like claims and claims of some inner connection with him [which have since been spin doctored by M and EVI and denied], Miragey's family have conned a lot of people into blindly and mindlessly following the various Rawat clan gurus. Let's look at agya, for example: Agya [the personal explicit direction/orders of the guru], and agya's use as a mind-numbing propaganda tool for brainwashing and total submission to M as the absolute authority and superior power in this world, played a Huge role in breaking down the barriers of any sane person's sensibility, reasonable doubts, and aversion to even the most dastardly deeds ordered in the name of the almighty guru. Those who innocently come to knowledge and M today are merely given a watered-down dose of agya -- yet reinforced weekly [but not daily and nightly] with the image of Big Brother hypnotizing them on a projection screen in a darkened screen in a cold and impersonal environment, where he maintains absolute control of the situation. Tens of thousands of adults, in what should have been the prime of their lives, actually submitted their innate intelligence and personal freedom and choices to the will of a pimply, greasy-haired teenaged Napoleon megalomaniac. his would not have been possible without a cumulative combination of synergistic factors: the orchestrated messianic 'Lord of the Universe' mindset which Prem Rawat and his minions routinely propagated and reinforced, as evidenced in M’s countless satsangs [diatribes], the Arti ritual [hymn of absolute adulation and submission], official media and publications, the enormous peer pressure and cult conformity, the cult commandments and rules, the bowing and prostration to his pictures and his person, the emotional and personal isolation many endured, the agonizing guilt trips, and the pretense that any effectiveness and experiences from the meditation techniques were somehow inextricably linked with him, etc. However, this cosmology and transformation could not have been effectuated or complete without AGYA -- the guru's direct orders to the devotee[s]. Within the framework of the Rawat family's cult philosophy, the word of the Master literally becomes the final word, the ultimate worldly authority -- the powerful psychological device used in communication to relay and justify the various insatiable demands, habitual capriciousness, hypocrisy, inanity and insanity of any questionable M/organizational doctrines, operations, or shenanigans. Agya has also been ritually used as the measure and test of one's obedience, fitness, and devotion to the Master. For instance, would Dettmers have done the deeds he performed - had it not been for M's direct agya? Perhaps not. [How about it, MD?] Similarly, when orders and demands were made of the premies, agya was routinely invoked by M and relayed via M's mouthpieces throughout the premie hierarchy and pecking order of each community worldwide -- e.g. M has stated that he needs a new plane, or M says to forget about your jobs and families and that a true premie should only live to attend the festivals with one's Master, or we have been advised to tell you that it is preferable to leave cash or checks made out to M in the darshan line [foot-kissing], or M says you must [________ fill in the blank] if you dare even call yourself his devotee... When mahatma [instructor] Fakiranand [aka Mishra] and his companion went to bash in reporter Pat Halley's skull in August 1973 in a murder conspiracy of retribution [for publicly throwing a cream pie in M’s face and thereby undermining a millennial 'Soul Rush' event at Cobo Hall in Detroit], do NOT think for a moment that it was some kind of a rogue operation [as the org's spin doctors concocted and quickly related to the shocked premies]. In fact, the hitmen themselves were under the distinct impression that they were simply following orders -- the will of the guru and his top-level organization. And, in fact, some very informed persons indicated and alleged at the time that the last telephone call between the hitmen and the DLM hierarchy before they left the Detroit ashram on their appointed rounds was with the young Rawat himself. Yes. Rawat himself. What did the honchos at DLM IHQ in Denver tell the hitmen to do? What did Rawat himself say, too? We already know that Miragey ordered Mishler and Donner to direct the flight of the fugitives. Why, then, did M shortly thereafter pose in photos with Raja ji [in the And It Is Divine magazine] as the Godfather, and why was there the ritualized pie throwing by M at premie special events for several years thereafter? What Real Demons were actually being flaunted or exorcised? Why was DLM directly involved in the aiding and abetting of fugitives, an organizational cover-up and dissemination of lies, and subsequent $10,000 payoff to Halley to circumvent any official investigation, lawsuit, or criminal indictment? WHO was really being protected? 'No cheat, no deceit', remember?! 'Satsang' means company of truth; yet, where and when did M and his org ever share any truth or light on this matter? Was this EVIL deed and pattern establishing a precedent for the subsequent criminal response and mishandling of M's hit-and-run vehicular manslaughter [and the hush money payoff] a decade later in India [as related to EPO by Dettmers]? It is well known that some WPC and security personnel around M indicated they would kill to protect M -- or if ordered to - without question. Just like the KGB, CIA, or Mafia. What kind of spiritual racketeering has been engaged in, at all levels and in a number of areas, too, over the years? Did M’s interpretations, abuse, and perversion of the concept of spiritual AGYA pave the way for the virtual enslavement of thousands of well-meaning souls, for crimes committed and concealed, for the X-rating [sworn secrecy] of his personal activities, and for the accumulation and obscenely gross misuse of hundreds of millions of dollars in monetary donations? Here is an excerpt from 'Life with Knowledge' (circa 1975), A Premie Guidebook, DLM, Chapter 6, entitled 'AGYA': 'You were told about this word, and explained its meaning thousands and thousands of times. And the word is 'agya'. If you follow agya, there is no big deal, no big problem. Then you don't have to worry. It's like, you're told to do something and you do it! ... It's Like Guru Maharaj Ji is standing a hundred feet above you and saying, 'Listen. You want to get out of this place? Okay. Now make a left.' And you go, 'I don't need your advice.' 'But if a person can be that humble and really understand that, 'YES, I AM A LITTLE CHILD, and I need directions,' then everything will be so beautiful.' -- Guru Maharaj Ji Beautiful for whom? The mega-millionaire Master, or those spiritually entrapped and ENSLAVED? Habits: 'Whatever you sow, you reap. If you sow good, you shall reap good. If you sow bad, you shall reap bad.' -- Guru Maharaj Ji On the use of drugs and alcohol: 'Well, the only thing I can tell you is that, look, you already have a Knowledge that is much more superior than that. It is like this: a person is in one city and he is telling everybody, 'Oh, I want to go to another city as soon as possible.' And he has a falcon jet, which is A-OK. It runs; it's perfect. But all he does is take his suitcase and start walking. And that's not the quickest way. It's not good to just say, 'Oh, I want this enlightenment to be soon as possible', and then instead, going to something that is completely inferior.' -- Guru Maharaj Ji On marriage: 'What people do is they say, okay, we have to get married now, and then they get married. After some time they think oh no, I don't think I like this thing. I think I better get back to do service. And they leave their wives and they come back and it's like, they want to do service again, and they're really confused and I say, 'Man, do one thing. Make your decision whether you want to get married and stay married. You understand. Don't get divorced in two weeks because that is the most terrible thing you can do.' -- Guru Maharaj Ji Service to the Master: 'If you want to be a disciple at all. If you want to be a real human being, first of all you have to be a servant. And how can one become a servant? By service.' -- Guru Maharaj Ji Channels of Communication: '...channels of communication through which DIRECTION can be given so that we all can work together. Therefore, everyone arranging any activities in either my name or in the name of Divine Light Mission must contact Headquarters by telegram, telephone, or telex, for approval of any proposed activity. By establishing this communication, all activities can be approved and supported by the Divine Light Mission, and any special proposals will be able to come to my attention before implementation.’ -- Sant Ji Maharaj [aka Guru Maharaj Ji aka Maharaji aka Prem Rawat aka Prempal Singh Rawat] (bold added) So, don't blame the lowly servile operatives - when everything associated with the cult from the mega-money diversions to the songs played at events is synchronized by orders from the top - the buck clearly stops with Miragey - a master of smoke and mirrors. By the way, some of us even enjoy occasional meditation, etc. But our personal experiences have nothing to do with the greedy guru. For those who have distanced themselves a bit from the cult for awhile, looked at all the available information out there related to the techniques, the history, the already extensive cult documentation, and then reused their brains instead of relying on their emotional attachment and cult concept indoctrination, the verdict is clear - Miragey has royally abused and betrayed the trust of the premies. He is therefore unworthy to be a guru, master, or teacher of anyone. Instead, he has shown himself to be a greedy guru, who has practiced cheat and deceit. Premies, take back your lives - which some of you gave away a long time ago, when you surrendered the reins of your life and your mind to someone so unworthy, deluded and selfish. Remember: 'No cheat, no deceit' was his mantra. Well, he didn't practice it in his official capacity or personally. Therefore he has failed the test. You know, I used to watch cult groupies scramble and callously trample others in their services or at events just to get closer to Miragey, sometimes thinking nothing of even undermining or sabotaging other premies, in their deluded cult personal aggrandisement mentality. The same personality types would naturally have no compunction or hesitation about facetiously or condescendingly doing the same to folks here. It's funny how some premies can be such ignorant egotists - who mistakenly think they've cornered a monopoly on truth - when the actual official personality cult representations are founded upon the quicksand of cheat and deceit. Guru enshrinement and personality worship is ultimately an obstacle to enlightenment, spirituality, intelligence, liberation, and further progress on the individual's path of life and truth. Slavery is dead, premies. Wake up! There is a healthy holistic afterlife, here and now.
Modified by Steve at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 11:45:15
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Thanks Steve, what a great post, I'd love to hear from him again, I hope he's well.
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 14:28:51
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That is really a Great Post and So True! ~ Thanks Steve
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Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 23:40:48 (EST)
From: housemother
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: spin doctors vs. integrity
Message:
| So true, Such. The very reason I decided to join this forum after years away from goo-boy and a year of lurking is because I read the archived transcripts of Erika Andersen. Talk about elephant dung piles, sorry to be crass, but she was the most supercilious, saccharine, self-promoting premie at COLL. When I read her patronizing, pseudo-benelovent postings on the forum, and the way she was sending (love) and (kisses) and (big hugs) to all the former honchos, name dropping even with the exes, I thought I was going to have vasovagal syncope. Not all that glitters is gold. |
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God, I love housemother, too.
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"...supercilious, saccharine,
self-promoting premie... patronizing,
pseudo-benelovent postings on the forum, and the way she was sending
(love) and (kisses) and (big hugs) to all the former honchos, name
dropping even with the exes..." So, this sounds eerily like another premie who's been posting here lately. Or the Stepford Wives, whatever. Is newage-speak the only way to communicate effectively with an active premie? I'd seriously like to know. I've struck out constantly so far. It would be nice to know if it's ever worth the effort.
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Sorry about that. I was venting, but in retrospect... pay no attention to the lurker behind the curtain. I'm sure that there are scads of premies who are worth the effort, and I didn't mean any disrespect.
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Housemother is a wonderful woman I knew fairly well when I was in the cult. She has gone on to do great things.
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It was actually Ericka Andersen's comments that I was getting in a knot about, not housemother (I loved her description of Andersen's writing style) - lucky you to know such a woman. She must have been fun.
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There are so few comments there, and the comments mostly discuss all of the places Rawat traveled, the birth of his kids, how he interacted with premies, (yeah, right), but they do not dare quote the Captain. They don't dare quote him on that site because he was, for the most part, yelling and screaming his lungs out at his "students," us premies, telling us to surrender our evil minds to him personally, have no secondary love but put him first, stop having kids, or never have kids, not to talk about anything but himself and experience of Knowledge (no chitchat), get divorced or never marry, and to join the ashram or die a rotten vegetable. It's such a pack of lies and lies by omission. I guess only the very long-term loyal get their names up there. How about I send in a DECA rememberance? Think they'll put it up?
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 09:53:12
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They never seem to get it exactly right, but the cult seems willing to talke about 1971-1972, and maybe even something about 1974 when M got married and his mother disowned him, but then, they just gloss over the next inconvenient decade or so and start talking about 1996 or after, and there is precious little to say. The intervening years are just too difficult to explain in the context of what Rawat claims to have remade himself into. What amazes me is the deception certain premies have to go through to support the charade.
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On the 1975 page, Jon Knight recounts: In the summer of 1976, Michael Dettmers said to me, “The only way to access Maharaji is through Bob Mishler, and that doesn’t sit well with me.” Dettmers had his own ideas about how things should be done. He had a vision of Maharaji as a humanitarian world leader. That was the thinking that prevailed for a period of time. So essentially, there was something of a power struggle between Michael Dettmers and Bob Mishler, who was taken from being the overall Chief Executive to simply being the head of North American Operations. Obviously, that didn't sit well with Mishler at all.
The implication is that Dettmers' vision was also wrong and eventually discarded. However, as we see from Rawat's own website, that's exactly how he's trying to present himself: He founded The Prem Rawat Foundation, which promotes his message of peace and spearheads significant humanitarian initiatives around the world.
So why can't they just give credit where it's due and admit that Dettmers was responsible for this retooling of Rawat as a "humanitarian leader"?
Modified by Jim at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 05:15:57
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If Bob Mishler was legally appointed an officer of an Incorporated entity - who removed him from that position and under what legallity were they operating ? It's as though these events happened by divine will - which is not something that is generally recognised as a legal or constitutional resolution. Nik
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If Bob Mishler was legally appointed an officer of an Incorporated entity - who removed him from that position and under what legallity were they operating ? Funny. I guess it's a rhetorical question, but Rawat was the legally named Chief Minister of DLM, incorporated in Denver, Co., I think, at least until Mishler was fired and Dettmers took over to reorganize things. If I'm not mistaken, Dettmers took Rawat's name off of the corporation papers for tax reporting purposes around 1976 or so, because donation funds (for DLM and for Rawat personally) had been co-mingled and they had an IRS audit coming. The logic was that Rawat was getting too many benefits to pass the IRS muster, including his Malibu home, and it wasn't considered a reasonable amount for someone who was the minister of a church. As a result, they passed the audit and personal donations to Rawat were henceforth sent to a Malibu P.O. Box, and kept separate from the DLM donations. That's from memory...I'm too busy to look up Dettmers statements on EPO right now. I know what you mean though, re: their wording. How come they don't just say Mishler was asked to resign like normal people in the word do? Oh. I almost forgot, it's a cult. 
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 11:51:10
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Well yes I was being rhetorical - but the question is an important one. I agree with your potted history but even with Rawat as Chief Minister that wouldn't allow Rawat to single handedly dismiss the CEO who (even if Rawat had not then still been a minor) have had the primary responsibility for all legal and organisational issues. Only the Board of the Incorporated body could dismiss the CEO and appoint a replacement. So: Who was on the Board ? Who appointed them ? How did they go about removing Mishler as CEO ? What were the reasons given for removing Mishler ? Etc. Etc. Etc .......... Nik
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So why can't they just give credit where it's due and admit that Dettmers was responsible for this retooling of Rawat as a "humanitarian leader"? Because the purpose of Jon Knight's disgraceful "memory" is to discredit Dettmers because he reported what he saw about Prem Rawat, much of it disparaging. Actually, it's an attempt to discredit Mishler and Dettmers as being just two people who got involved in a power struggle in the cult. See, they lacked "that understanding." Pretty pathetic, but that's the obvious intent. Hampton's comments about Mishler being on some kind of power trip is just part of that. By the way, I understand that the spoiled rich boy Jon Knight continues to serve his Lord. I am told he was given the "service" of finding Rawat's $7 million yacht a few years ago. I think both John and Jon would say anything and disparage anyone who criticized their Lord.
Modified by Joe at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 11:32:09
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But I do think it's funny how they talk about the humanitarian leader thing was Dettmers' mistake when that's the very tack they're sailing now.
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Might be this: In 1976 there was a concerted effort to say that Rawat was a "humanitarian leader," not a master or a teacher and certainly not the Lord God incarnate. Mishler said he wanted to wean premies away form the idea that Rawat was God because it was damaging to them. According to Mishler, Rawat was into this, until he realized he would probably lose his lifestye of money and worship. Then, Mishler resigned. Now, he is sort of being portrayed as a teacher of peace, an inspirational speaker for experiencing peace, and he also claims to have a foundation that gives money for humanitarian purposes on the side. I think to cult members there is a distinction. In the first, he IS a humanitarian leader. In the second, he's the master who also does humanitarian things.
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There's an unfortunate side effect to this revision which I suppose in their optimism, they didn't foresee, for some people it was not long before an equation formed in their minds, for others it was seen as a good idea, almost proof that he was adaptable and willing to adjust to public demand.
Sometimes a premie that I meet in passing might tell me, with bright smiles, that its great that he's changing the things that don't work.
This is expected in normal business environments. But in his case it cannot apply, it was not upon the basis of speading the four techniques and humanitarianism that the whole premise of his entitlement to fealty, devotion and donation was based.
True the spread of the knowledge was a close priority and frequent revised drives appeared around the times of heightened expenditure, coinciding often with aircraft upgrades.
Though this knowledge is available widely and in good detail, it was on the basis of his "special grace which made the knowledge work" that his fame spread. I was taken aside many a time by old followers and told, "This is the secret, guru maharj ji is everything, nothing else." This is all on the basis of him being lord.
Everything revolves around the need to survive. Once individual people are overlooked in the equation the collective entity of the organisation just escalates into deeper and deeper levels of corrupted logic. The income of the guru is people. He takes from their lives. He sets up an automatic extraction system so that their life energy is drawn off gradually, year upon year.
Once you take this is out of the equation he has nothing to stand on, anyone could decide to set up a charity, become a humanitarian, teach yoga, meditation classes, give the four techniques or eight or sixteen if they like.
Take the guru/god theme out of the equation and he is back to square one. Just one of the crowd trying to think up an idea to survive: or in his case maintain an extraordinarily wasteful and lavishly expensive lifestyle to which he has a raging addiction, heretofore entirely supported by a group of people who do so because they are convinced that in some mystical magic way he has power over them; owns their lives, because he is the lord.
Once he has begun to say the opposite, (let's face it he made them opposites), I think they're the same (human consciousness/god) if they exist.
But once he admits to being not god, he is admitting to lying. It doesn't matter any more, which is the truth. Lying cancels the whole thing out. That's it, he's just a guy, just a bloke, and shady too. It doesn't suit a mature student of humanitarianism, but it sure as hell negates being any kind of divine god or anything. He can't go back, can't change his mind again. One of these things is a lie and which ever one it is, the meaning is the same he is just an ordinary person. (Presuming if there is a god, he does not lie.)
The whole thing collapses like a pack of cards, who cares if he dreamed of saving the world; feeding the pour, sounds like something you'd say to St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. Why should any premie care, if he isn't god, the knowledge won't work, there's no hope of an easy liberation, no bridge of grace. Why bother? For old times sake?
They must in secret believe him still to be, which means they join him in a collective lie. A lie they tell in order to conceal but support a greater lie: the lie they have told themselves to believe in secret.
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 20:10:27
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To me this is the crux of the matter. You can't retire from being God and he has to be God to have any value in the Knowledge equation. However the catch that allows everything to continue to work is that as He is God, He can do anything He wants: The First Law of Rawatism as expressed by Gurucharanand at http://ex-premie.org/video/passages.html
Therefore he is only lying about not being God to protect the poor people who don't have Knowledge because if he is openly proclaimed to be God then propagation will fail. But propagation has failed hasn't it? Not id they include the numbers of Indians coming along to festivals it hasn't.
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But he can't juggle two sets of clubs forever. The world is shrinking informationally.
Modified by LP at Sat, Jul 01, 2006, 06:28:35
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