|
|
|
It must be hard for a premie who is actively discouraged from seeking the truth for decades, to decide to work consciously to find the truth. It must be like trying to fight one's way out of a fog. In my experience, the last thing premies want to deal with is the truth. If confronted with truth, many premies will either run, or will tell you how wrong the truth is.
If and when they finally look for and find the truth, and discover that the truth is not what their controlled minds were convinced of, the feelings of betrayal must be phenomenal.
I can't imagine it. I can think of several things that are probably similar in scope to the depth of emotions one has to deal with at that point. My congratulations to all who made that journey out of the fog and back into the world.
|
|
|
|
Hi Premie Spouse, I always enjoy reading your posts because they are filled with the Real Truth! Your right on target with your words. And the truth is that Prem Rawat and his nasty mind abusing Cult has perverted so many great words over the years. It's a really sad and sick truth for sure. Trust me! I'm posting this attachment because I like what Will said here. Plus, it never hurts to shine the light on the Real Truth more than once. At least, that's how I feel about it. Thanks Premie Spouse and also LP, who I love reading too. Best Thoughts! ... Hilltop
Modified by Hilltop at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 22:38:43
|
|
|
|
And here's another post by Will that I liked too... Hilltop
|
|
|
|
Thanks Hilltop, for these references to Will's excellent posts, You are both highly appreciated (by me). Love to hear from you.. You too, Premie Spouse: always clear and to the point.
Lp
|
|
|
|
Hi yes i am still here, not copeing too well though with the situation If you have any answers I would be very interested I find M to be good very good at what he has done By the way I hear what every one is saying down below and really apreciate the replys The bigest problem with me is not being able to tell anybody about this situation The little information that I have is that experiences of this nature are viewed as serious (as I explained down below) in medical circles, in the same manner as chest pains are regarded as serious. So it seems that one needs some real time help here. Do you think that there is something that I have missed in all this or am not understanding about M Lets examine the facts Elan Vital org only exists on the internet There are about four satsangs Programms a month and then nothing. There is no fellowship not even gettogethers for old time sakes. Everybodys memory about the past seems to be wiped out. M must know that human kind needs each other. Even God saw that it was not good for man to be alone so he made Eve. Can you imagine if all other religions decided to go underground Mass 4 times a month and then one of those in Latin Anyway that is enough we have been duped and that is it and it will go down in history as such
|
|
|
|
Hi, Insearch, thanks for the reply. It seems some of us are up and about at this time, others, farther round the globe westward, join later. Though we can have our evening with their morning and by staying up late we can catch early risers, the other side of the world. We are a widespread group of friends, but believe me we are real.
I am going to defy science here, always one of my greatest loves, and a favorite subject I share with some very good friends, I know purely, from having met them here. They are real to me and I venture to say, in spite of all logic that I feel their warmth from here.
You will learn from reading, which posts you find particularly helpful, and which are not for your needs. You will see there is a great variety, some even (well, sorry guys! one), of useful value as a depiction of the incredibly solidified, locked in premie mind set. (Set being the operative word).
It is not necessary to pour out all the terrible hurts you are personally aware of, which I can understand by a wide survey of individual testimonies including volumes of my own, are close to unbearable, and tenacious. Not at first. But it is important to first get to feel comfortable with some one, get a rapport.
You will know your healing has begun (and you get your first small x) when you have your first uncontrollable belly laugh over a little joke, no stand up masterpiece, some might not even see the joke, but you make your first shy, (albeit a bit silly) attempt to share seeing the funny side of our collective and shared individual situations. These are always welcomed warmly, because it is like a birth.
Have you contacted Mike? perhaps you will find someone else, with whom you feel rapport. Agree to email and contact admin.
*There is a very valid transparent thing going on here which I call to the attention of the world: now reading.*
*You, who presumably are reading this, eavesdropping as it were on what is, a private exchange between two, apparently, very troubled souls will note.*
*How nice people on this forum are, generally. albeit they are terse when it comes to comment on the leader of the cult they are in the process of extricating themselves from, as would be expected and encouraged by any therapist.*
*How much they have suffered and still, in remission, do suffer, from one common or very similar ill effect.*
*How afraid we have been made to feel. We are apprehensive of the underhand methods practiced by the guru and his cult faithfuls. I am shaking as I dare to type these words, as I do not know who Insearchoftruth is.*
Insearchoftruth, I am also in search of truth, we have the same name. I type because my heart makes me, no other reason. And I search for truth at any cost, even if it means I have to admit that I wasted three quarters of my life on a false ideology, lose a life long community and someone who once I believed was the all and the everything and the essence of my self, the Lord. This is hard, and psychologically difficult ground, therapy helps.
Insearchoftruth, I strongly advise you take up another interest, several, the mind is diverse, and right to be so. Hobbies, walks, gardens, woods.
A pet, even. Get your hands in the soil, feel the earth and feel the Earth. Sometimes, when you are weeding with your bare hands
stop on all fours, reflect again on your feelings now, look down into the brown earth and let your heart weep gently. Time it, it if you like
with a summer shower: let the heavens weep along with you, let them give you back your breath, through the vibrant air, which now you breathe.
Dont't worry, no one will see, let your tears fall warmed by your breath to the ground. As it goes quiet then, and the sun comes out again, suddenly like an explosion of sweetness, a blackbird's song starts up. Type, weep while you type, out loud, howl and wail and type, Its OK.
Type good things, if you have to tell someone something heavy, get an e mail friend and start from there.
There are loving and intelligent minds here, it is all you have at present; enjoy them.
I will not embarass them by naming them nor offend any I inadvertently forget, they all equally express profoundly, some at length some briefly but extremely to the point.
Anyway this might, for all I know, be stage 2.. as a recent poster ... I have brought you up to date with my own progress and experience.
It presumably continues. I enjoy posting and reading here, more than any service, or satsang, and I have to admit, (I didn't notice,) my body appears to be "meditating" along pleasantly all by itself. The majority of posters here are my teachers, some are practically my professors!
It is still possible, of course, Insearch Oftruth, that I am still being duped, that option B would have been the honest response. We are flying blind, but if that were the case ISoT. I thankyou for giving me the chance to write, and to experience writing this letter: which I dedicate to all premies and ex-premies everywhere. Easy ex-ing!
With sorrow and love
young Lp
Modified by LP at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 09:02:34
|
|
|
|
Not clear what you mean by 'good at what he does'.
As far as spreading his message in the early years, I think we were good listeners.
As far as ducking and diving and taking the path of profit rather than truth, playing the chameleon philanthopist, he's hopeless at it. You can't throw your own and everyone elses mind down the 'pooper' and expect the vacant heads that remain to come up with a working strategy. The only thing that spread his knowledge was our wide eyed 60's/70's gullibity. He was lucky with the timing, that is all IMO.
I guess he did learn the rhythm of public speaking, how to rise and fall, extend, cut short, pause, question, answer, deliver a punch line ..etc... But then so did Hitler. And that is the skill passed down from former gurus: not any 'grace' at all. He wasn't all that good at that either, impressive in early teens, but boring as bricks in a middle aged man.
'Do you think that there is something that I have missed in all this or am not understanding about M'
Very possibly, tell us what you see and understand, or don't understand.
'Elan Vital org only exists on the internet'.
I like this line, EV is indeed invisible, ephemeral: just a name to describe one of the main tributaries of the river of money flowing through m..
'There is no fellowship not even get togethers for old time sakes.Everybody's memory about the past seems to be wiped out. M must know that human kind needs each other.'
Whether he knows or not is irrelevant, he doesn't care. That isn't even on his agenda. He only wants the connections to him. Not the connections between people, and then only one way.
'Even God,'
You mean even old not able to reveal himself without outside help; less than Guru; god?
My imagination has already been worn smooth on other religions, but all belief is adverse, and who knows what dungeons they have.
'Anyway that is enough we have been duped'
Yes, you have said enough to start getting self feed back,
to start hearing your own words ring back, like the sea.
With the salty tang of truth once more in our nostrils,
our own word, our own testimony is the strongest.
We have indeed been royally duped. And that is that. Mean that!
Dust off your hands, and the first obstacle would have been crossed.
I am most heartened by your very prophetic words.. re: our duping:
And it will go down in history as such
It will, and I'll remember that sentence when the time comes.
Thanks
Lp
Modified by LP at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 09:30:55
|
|
|
|
insearchoftruth,Cut yourself some slack! You are a human, nothing more or less. We ALL make mistakes. You just stopped making one..... this is a good thing..... a VERY good thing! Now, let's look at the really bright side. Leave your beliefs and confusion aside for a moment. Give it a rest. Give your mind a rest. It deserves it, don't you think? Your world isn't ending, only delusion is ending. So relax...... seriously, just relax, cut yourself a bit of slack and think on these things: 1. Your life is once again your own! You owe nothing to anyone you don't wish to owe. Do what YOU want to do, not what you think some "guru" wants you to do. 2. No more "meditation" out of guilt. Nothing to be guilty about and you don't owe meditation to anyone. Moreover, you don't even have to meditate if you don't want to do so, right? 3. No more cognitive dissonance. This one is HUGE, my friend. Think about it...... you no longer have to try to explain away M's terrible behavior. You no longer have to overlook the warts. You can see it for what it is.... and you have apparently just done so. Congrats are in order, not depression. I know that seems trite, but believe me, when it really sinks in you will know what we are talking about. You will experience a mental freedom that you probably forgot even existed! Life doesn't become less precious because there "may not be" a pie-in-the-sky. If anything, it becomes more precious. You now have taken (repossessed) your own life back! Celebrate that! 4. Get yourself prepared for a breath of truely "fresh air." When it finally sank into "my" brain, I experienced a joy that meditation never gave, I can tell you that. Giving my total "devotion" to those who really deserved it was the first thing that happened..... my family is number one! They KNOW my name, they care about me and love me for real! What more could one ask? Now, if you aren't married that might not apply directly to you, but I think you will know what I mean. 5. No more "eastern" hangups! Since you are an oldie, there is little doubt in my mind that you maintain many of those. Poof! Goodbye! You wanna eat meat? Do it! You aren't gonna break into a million pieces, or turn into rotten vege's or anything else because you decide to do something that was a "no-no" in the cult. Then again, you can continue to do those things, if it pleases YOU! YOU are the one that is important here, not M. I could go on and on here, but I don't want this to become too boring. I think you get the point. Relax, think, cut yourself a TON of slack for being human and, most of all, enjoy the fresh air! I'll make one thing really easy for you: "I" don't care what you might have said on these forums as an active premie (if you did). You could have been the meanest person ever...... it no longer matters. Don't feel any guilt about that, ok? Let it go...... and breathe the "fresh air" of reality. Don't worry about "what might have been," get yourself going on "what will be." I just cut you some major slack and I don't even know who you are..... do the same for yourself, ok? 
Modified by NAR at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 12:49:41
|
|
|
|
Welcome back NAR, good to hear you; on form as usual.
Lp
|
|
|
|
There is no denying the hurt and pain you feel now but everything NAR said is true. Life without K has so many more opportunities for joy and connectedness with the human race. After you get through what you are going through now...there is all the love and joy and world to explore... the difference is...Rawat no longer takes credit for everything good that happens....and mind is not blamed for everything bad. You don't have to pretend you don't see reality. You get to be genuinely yourself. It's okay to say what you think or if you have a doubt about anything. If you feel sad, or pain, it doesn't mean you are doing something wrong anymore. It means often you are seeing reality. But my life has been full of way more joy than pain thus far. My take on why we are here isn't the same, I feel its more to try to do meaningful things than to feel something "meaningful". Its a lot less about my "experience" its more about trying to do what I feel is right, and I also have a lot of fun along the way. You have to walk through where you are...but there is every reason to think once you proccess it your life can be richer and better because you did.
|
|
|
|
In line with your "reconnecting with humanity" comment. I've taken this so much for granted, that I forgot to mention it.Insearchoftruth, undoubtedly you are a generous person. Most of the "oldies" seem to hail from that group of people who were interested in peace and plenty for the human race. We wanted to end starvation and do all kinds of things to help out our less fortunate neighbors, whether they be in our own country or elsewhere. NOW YOU CAN! All of that money that you spent on supporting a rich man living in an obscene mansion built on some of the most expensive real estate in the world can now go to helping those who are REALLY in need. You can spend your time, your effort and/or your money on those folks with abandon (or as you see fit). You don't have to worry about how you are going to make it to the next program to hear the same old hackneyed nonsense blatherings. You will do more, in one day, to alleviate someone's pain and misery than M has done in his entire life. Again, your life and your income are yours...... they belong to YOU! YOU decide who it is that you will support. YOU decide who it is that has a cause you are willing to lend a helping hand. YOU! I venture a guess that YOU will be a better judge of who deserves your support than any guru would be. I don't even know you and I can say that, easily! By the way, that isn't a blatant advertisement my friend, just a reminder of one of the things that is now possible that probably wasn't prior to this moment. It's a good thing that you are breaking free..... good for you, good for others, too! Take heart..... your pain, suffering and confusion will pass! Remember, too, cut yourself some serious slack. Don't worry about the "might have beens" and "what you did's," concentrate on the "what will be's!" BREATHE that fresh, free air...... and do what YOU will!
Modified by NAR at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 17:22:27
|
|
|
|
Goodness, insearchoftruth, along with nar I’m going to suggest you give yourself a pat on the back. You’re coping really very well.
You asked a few questions in the last thread, along the lines of is it possible to experience a disordered state of mind similar to acid without having taken a drug. Yes, it happened to me some years ago.
And how do you make it stop. In the fullness of time I wanted to know the what how and why. But you’ve already done what I would think is the most important bit, which is to realise what’s happening and engage in seeking the help you need.
I agree about medical help. Doctors can be good. I told mine what was happening to me and he gave me a hug. It had such an effect, I remember sitting there and facing what lay before me.
Here’s something I wrote shortly after -
The Aftershock
Earthquakes rumble and explanations are the rubble. The sun is shining on a new day, foliage glistening with the richness of the rain. The sound of the creek and the birds doesn’t disturb the sense of a peaceful silence. Dragons slumber as I slice tomatoes, smell the freshly picked herbs and sweep the floors.
The dust and cobwebs swirl and settle and yet the room feels enjoyably clean, the smells and tastes of cooking, the light and air a benison that no words can encompass.
Last night the stars were flung across the vastness of the sky. Today ants follow their paths with all their might and against the blue sky a flock of birds turn and swoop.
And I still feel lucky in the same way that I did when I was six or three or any age at all.
|
|
|
