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"It is with great sadness that I feel that M is a mad man"Yes, it is sad to realise the person you trusted most with everything you have is a liar. "I do not have the courage to expose him more here"
Don't worry about exposing him. Conentrate on getting you own self back together.
Do not be scared by his early satsangs about what happens to premies that leave.I know that many premies are scared to leave because of his early satsangs. I don't think I could imagine their pain. We are still human beings and human beings are amazingly resilient. I have met quite a few exs and "not one of them smelt of rotting vegetables" or were fragmented into 1000 pieces. "If there is any truth in the Bible that there would be wailing and knashing of teeth, and only the strongest would win through this is it" The Bible is a good example of how cults inject fear into people. If you want to meet up, you can contact me thru the webmaster.
I also would suggest for you not to isolate yourself. Chatting with 'ordinary people' can bring about amazing exhanges.
Wisdom can still be found all around.
All the best Jethro
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Hi InSearchOfTruthI am desperate for some sort of comunication You posted a similar post a few threads down (half way down this page). Quite a few people responded (including myself) with offers of support and communication. Did you get in touch with any of us? The offer is still open. Is it possible to have been mad for thirty years and to only now realise it ? Oh yes. I assume by 'mad' you don't mean clincally insane, nor the American sense of 'angry', but more as in deluded, stupid, not seeing clearly, being taken for a ride. The thing to focus on is not how deluded we were for 30 years, but the fact that we have at last woken up to the fact. That is pretty positive. Please please help Contact one of us who responded to your last post. Take care -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
Modified by Mike Finch at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 03:56:03
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Hello insearchoftruth,
Your post rephrases many of the things you put in your earlier one.
Several suggestions were offered, but there was no reply.
So: desperateforcommunication  the first lesson in
communication is to respond. I recommend, that you go
to the 'Top of thread', you started, hit the 'view all' button
between 'recommended' and 'current page', and scroll up and down.
Read everything, your own words, our replies, (some of us missed breakfast to get right back to you)
Read them at least ten times, in different orders.
Do this, on a few surrounding threads,
then if something triggers interest, click on a 'reply' button and
post a comment to that individual, albeit, we all will read it with
great patience, expectation and no short wait.
This is what we mean by communicate.
Try it you'll like it!
Lp
PS did you not see even the ps of Bryn, who was human enough to voice his fears also, it takes courage to post here! Yes! but you don't have to say anything you'll later regret. For a seeker of truth that shouldn't be too difficult: just tell the truth. You might have got back to Bryn: reassured him you were on the level, and not......
PPS I don't do this so much now: it's safe here: but in the beginning I printed all these posts I referred to above, ours, replies, and any that catch your interest. Then sit with them on your lap while you watch TV take them out for a walk with you, do you have pets, look deep in their eyes today, then go and sit under a tree and browse.
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 04:48:35
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There are several undertows here in this current...
I am desperate for some sort of comunication
We have offered some sort of communication
You seem overly anxious to meet up and
you offer two things a chance to practise human compassion and the carrot of more expose You might be surpised to know that we aren't obsessed with exposing maharaji
This has a certain Fletch. Fak. ring to it. (forgive me if I'm way off and for feeling uneasy myself.)
Re truth .. Bible.. come on..
"wailing and knashing of teeth, and only the strongest would win through this is it" is this a veiled threat from the unwise one?.......
As far as the strongest the universe is the strong one, he is the cardboard cut out with the gold tinfoil.
Does anyone know anything about madness ?
Gathering evidence about mental conditions are we? Only the ignorant and those whose vocabuly hailed from British Raj days in India would use that term, there are a wealth of terms to describe the various results of heart break and depression resulting from disappointed love. But madness?
I tell this story every once in a while and I'll tell it again.
It was the first 'story' I ever heard. When I first heard satsang.
I asked
"Does anyone ever leave?"
Answer: "One did; once, but he went mad!"
Some part of my belly button is still laughing, even to this day!
(I heard Burt Lancaster had a palm tree once, but I didn't believe it.)
Now you owe me: insearchoftruth: to convince me you are a real person; or are you still standing with one foot still in his kitchen?
Lp
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 09:25:01
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I remember in the early 70s stories of what happened to those that left. It was one of Glen Whittikars favourite subjects for while.
It certainly scared me.
For me leaving was scarier than eating my first pork chop!!!(which turned out delicious)
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This sounds a lot closer to the truth and a lot closer to my own experience.
Lp
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 07:28:01
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Unless you are deeply enmeshed, heavily involved in his organisations or on the staff of one of his households and have experienced a particularly nasty side of his attitude toward mere mortals, even his faithful and loyal servants.
Unless you are at your wit's end and actually fear for your personal safety as well as your well informed suspicion that you will get labelled as "mad": and given your sensitive and troubled history; such accusations would make you crumple inside, coming from the top, as it were.
It might even make you feel suicidal, and the fact that they are prepared to do that to you, if you leave,
knowing you are less stable these days, only makes it worse.
God.. If this is is the case, please know we are with you in every way consciousness will allow. and please let us know we are in suspense, and letting imagination run away with our pens, or in this case our goats with our solar powered cave teletypewriting setup.
Love from all in Dhawalagiri!
And if you're a harmless exing premie, have patience, see through premies and their leader. and keep in touch here. They said.
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 12:06:52
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A whip round among my goats has given me enough pellets to make a small makeshift, barracus, upon which they have been able to expand their communication skills and have presented me with a set of questions which I dutifully: ... he assures me with two rings of his bell, this is the right word, there's a lot of nanny goats, out on the hill a'clanking are natural born worriers:... pass on to you.
Just say a, b, or c.
A ....a regular disappointed premie poised at the moment of ex - ing and dramatising his heart break at finding his/her true love was a schmuck.
B... Fishing to trick us into meeting face to face....
C.....Actually crying out in real danger and in real need of actual human assistance, in which case the emails offer is still a good idea, and if it is serious, of course: 999.
But dropping these nets and coming back later doesn't sound desperate to me. I'm desperate. Desperate to hear how you're getting on: how you think , how you're surviving this (if that is in fact what this is ) most traumatic episode of your life, not just you 'insearchoftruth' but everyone, I have other things to do but when I post, I can't wait to get back to see people's reply.
These are just thoughts, but whoever you are, you are welcome to think on it.
In a nutshell "insearchoftruth" please reply.
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 09:38:02
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I recommend you email Mike Finch right now. and the rest, take from there. Still here.
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 10:25:30
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Hello, I'd like to respond to your post since I didn't below. I'll answer some of your comments by first posting yours in italics, and then my response will follow. It is with great sadness that I feel that M is a mad man I don't think M is a "mad man," however, what does that statement mean to you? I do not have the courage to expose him more here You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. But, this is quite an efficient way of communicating with people online. I am desperate for some sort of comunication My pain and sense of loss is acute It's up to you to make the next step. No one can do that for you and you've had some offers of private communication. Take people up on their offer to email you. No one else can do that for you and even though you're feeling pain, that doesn't mean you need to be frozen in place. Take a small step towards support, if that's what you really want to do. Otherwise, there's really nothing anyone can to to help you out. If there is any truth in the Bible that there would be wailing and knashing of teeth, and only the strongest would win through this is it No. God have we been conned.....Phew Yes. It's not the end of your life though, lots of us have gone through what you are thinking and feeling and are doing just great now. It's never to late to start anew. Is it possible to have been mad for thirty years and to only now realise it ? If you mean mentally ill, well yes, but I never use the slang term "mad" when referring to a state of mind/emotions, because it really is meaningless. Can you explain what you mean? If you're feeling a lot of emotions right now, that's normal for humans, especially people who are waking up later in life trying to leave a cult leader. You're human, let yourself feel something -- you deserve it. It might help you to name your emotions, i.e., instead of saying "I think I'm mad," try identifying the emotions, like "I'm angry, sad, happy, bored, feel betrayed, lonely, tired, etc." It'll get you in touch with your feeling of "madness" much quicker and ease your pain, too. Does anyone know anything about madness ? Yes I do know a lot about "madness," but ditto my above response, re: madness. Right now I am in extreme pain because of him Please please help You came to the right forum, and I am helping you right now, as others are trying to do. Now it's entirely up to you to respond, either here in a thread or privately, so that you can get some support. Try reading this website, it may help you to clarify what you are feeling right now, and help you to realize you are not alone: http://www.refocus.org/ Take care of yourself, Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 08:29:20
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Fact I have K. Fact I had spiritual experiences with K Question ...were they real or were they just inside my head Fact ....experiences at one time were good Fact .....experiences now are bad (very) Question ....How do I make them go away Fact I am certain that I am not/ was not mad Fact.... experiences seem to be similar to schitzophrenia or LSd Question ....Are we naturally tripping out is it possible I await avidly
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We are feeling around here, some have been posting a lot longer than me, and have specific experience in these areas.
We know we are having an experience, there is no point at which you can point at your life journey, or any of its inner landscapes and skyscapes and say those were spiritual and those were not.
Who is to say what is inside your head is not real?
Acid is eye opening in a supporting environment, but leads to "bad trips", in hostile environments; similarly:-
Only there, where you've been, the environment and the 'Lsd' are the same: both hostile.
Let them go away, rather than make them go away.
I am also sure you are not/were not mad. Plain old, led up the common or garden, garden path, like the rest of us.
Similar to Schitz. because the same techniques which once were used like a cherry on top of a happy-ish life, have now become the only obstacle in the flood plane of argument against his being the perfect M.
In this hostile environment stop taking the meditation. forget it for the time being. there's still a lot of world left, most, all of it actually.
The fears we now associate with knowledge are quite different from the euphoric highs of expectation, enhanced by coloured lights and dancing, we conditioned ouselves to associate with k at first.
The last few times I actually seriously meditated for what was left of "the love of maharaj ji" felt quite akin to crawling under a dark blanket, attacking my own head with my fingers, and shutting out the world
LP
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 13:38:18
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Hi Insearch, Madness is an unhelpful term and most health professionals would avoid using it these days. If you are genuinely having unwanted experiences comparable to schizophrenia - or any other major psychological distress you need to seek out some dependable source of support - and I would suggest that be professional support. By all means carry on discussing your experience of Rawat/Knowledge here but what you are describing sounds serious and you need a very clear and detached reference point for what you are experiencing - that means a professional accredited counsellor or therapist or at the very least Community Medical support. Nik
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Fact.... experiences seem to be similar to schitzophrenia or LSd No one can know what it is that you're going through (and what kind of thoughts you're having) if you're really feeling that bad. If you have schizophrenia or a related disorder you must get professional help now. Mike Finch isn't a professional, but you must call your doctor today, if you are feeling that sick. Check out this website called Schizophrenia dot com and click on some of the links to the left or even take the test to determine if you need to call your doctor asap. This is not something that an online forum could ever help you with. http://www.schizophrenia.com/index.php Please keep posting if you want, however, and please let us know how you are. You have me concerned. Bests, Cynthia
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If you are doing any formal meditation, it might be a good thing for you to stop for a while until you're feeling better. Sometimes, meditation, especially on knowledge, can make your problems worse, not better. Try looking outward into the world for support right now. 
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Dear In Search of Truth,
I was busy earlier, and dashed off a hasty response to your queries.
I woke up in the night, thinking of you and so I came back to the computer. The night is a good time to think.
I would like to reply to you in more detail, for two reasons, one is for you, now. The other is a letter, I suppose, to any one in your shoes.
But first, I would like to apologise for my various approaches in these posts where I tried to invoke a response. I hoped to hold forth a three pronged trident. Two prongs are probably familiar, but a third is the fact that I am aware that EV and Rawat get this. And I would like them to know that we are aware of their style and methods, they are quite transparent.
And to say that I am aware of just how painful it can be, from a variety of positions in the field, to catch the ball, and of the treatment and tirades that will follow if you drop it, albeit, you might have dived, flying, full length in the dust, to save his name.
In short please forgive me for the masks I wore to try to get you to post this afternoon. I hope you are well and in a safe environment, and have unfettered access to a computer.
Posting here is the best thing I know, it can feel really scary but, that passes. I think many here will attest that it is really therapeutic in a way that you won't find anywhere else for our specific malady.
And besides, while the rough times of the healing process are taking place, others can offer their particular experience and advice.
While a third benefit is that other people, worse off than ourselves perhaps, still hopelessly entrapped within the system: with business contracts.. fear of loss of livelihood.. starting all over with nothing .. much, much older now..etc..etc.... These premies can learn to trust themselves and their inner feelings again, instead of fighting these off as voices of the mind.
(The evil mind trying to make you believe m is not the LotU. The nasty tricky mind trying to stop m from buying a better aeroplane.)
(Bad mind for letting it slip in public that you think m is the LotU. You know you' re supposed to always say:
The humanitarian leader public speaker philanthopist of the Universe ... Gee... Jay... ....)
Sometimes my old and dear friend, the quickest and the best medicine of all is laughter. Remember?
Oh and while I'm in apologetic mood, I'd like to take this opportunity, again, to apologise for the fact that I ever once told people about m and brought them to satsang and told them to give their minds to him and do satsang, service and meditation. I too, helped spread the rumour that a divine child guru was on the planet. I was wrong. I am truly sorry.
Goodnight
Your old friend Lp
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 03:11:02
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Hi LP,thats a nice letter you wrote to in search of truth. I admire you for apolagising and what a great suggestion you made...Laughter...now thats a nice one. Some people make me laugh especially when they say negative things to me..about me..especially when what they are saying is totally the opposite to the type of person I am..thats a laugh! If those who say negative things to me about me...well that just shows me whee theyre at. im into love peace and harmony, always was and always will be my friend.once again well done for being so considerate toward In search of truth..nice one my friend. Best wishes Love Julie x
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I would like to apologise to you for the effect your misunderstanding of words, that might have been typed here in a state of frustration, pain, anger, or just plain human "run out of patience", even gestures, might have had.
Setting aside, the debate about what is rude or not or where to draw the line of politeness; because we are bombarded with little words and gestures on TV and in the 'street', and because these borderlines are hard to draw:-
Of course if you want to be prudish and start arguments and use that as one more barrier to hold up like a shield so that you don't really communicate with us, well that's one more test for us to have to swallow our frustration. And when we realise why you are 'stuck' we feel anger at the man who has done this to you.
Quite possibly when we realise that you are saying the same old stuff we have heard ourselves say, we become reminded (painfully) of the premie we used to be.
This is on top of the frustration of having to listen to you from behind that 70's guru maharaj ji poster (advertisement) and the anger you have reminded us of that we feel towards guru maharaj ji for the time, love, success, job, family, mental balance, etc we have lost: because of trying to give all our love, service, time, etc.. and our money to him.
Now they direct to you the voice they would have directed at their own deluded past premie self. Please do not be offended, these comments are possibly for the old premie not Julie. Although the way you insist on butting in with your meaningless advert is rude Julie.
Julie you and I are humans first, as is guru maharaj ij. Equal. He has not treated us equally so we do not feel equally towards him. And I didn't say we were not different, thus: a variety of responses.
This is a sign of health and return to normalcy.
What is not a sign of health, but one of abnormality is a lack of variety in response.
If you just said Hi and so on it would be nice. Please use find.. Authors name .. and review all your own posts. See how similar they are? You are not communicating. You are advancing upon us holding a roman shield, with a huge programme poster stuck to it. The responses you have had are for the shield, mostly, the rest is just impatience and frustration.
When I first started communicating my friendly wishes were genuine and they still are, I have asked you a question twice before and you didn't answer:
What did you think of Anth's Journey? A. J. W.
I would like a response even if it is something like : I couldn't face going on that awful ex premie org site. or
I can't read anything negative about maharaj ji it is forbidden in my religion.
Once again, I am trying to write you a friendly and civilised letter, inspired by the patience of others' who have been posting longer than I. You aren't talking to new people you are talking to old premies, who have laid their head and their life at his feet, only to end up with a swift kick, not literally, but in terms of long slow tortuous heart pain and fear and confusion about god and our life itself. Frankly I would have preferred a kick.
Please listen now Julie. Please don't say
im into love peace and harmony, always was and always will be my friend.
Please don't try to give me satsang, I might even have given you satsang many times before, long ago, and for that I feel very sorry indeed.
I cannot undo the damage I have helped maharaj ji to cause, except by posting here.
You can't argue the case about maharaj ji with us so please don't waste your energy trying. Talk to us about anything else, but please don't tell us all the beliefs you have gathered to accompany your first major delusion i.e.
That maharaj has any spiritual power or any purpose or any usefulness to society or any knowledge to give.
You are an overly typical example of a premie in the deep throes of premiehood. He has rejected you, as he rejected me long ago, and you have gone on trying to prove to him that you love him as I did, by saying the things you think he wants you to say: that you think make him like you. Give it up! You need money to catch his interest.
And I can assure you, emphatically he does not hear you. Perhaps you see this forum as a chance to get maharaj ji to hear you at last: he can read how you try to give satsang to the miscreants. I would lay odds with my newfound friends here, that he finds you an embarrassment.
Please, stop. Think about what you say because the premie rap or line causes real distress and palpable anguish when it is seen coming from an actual living person, that we have in some way grown to know.
We have already totally rejected that guru, and there is nothing, Nothing you can say that will change that. However we are still your friends at heart, (I think), (I'm trying to be), (No need to thank me).
We come here to actually heal our pain, not to get more. It may be unseen but you are actually hurting us with your words Julie.
Sometimes when in pain our patience snaps and we say things in a more exaggerated way than we might if we were relaxed. We come here as a last resort, our only haven where at last we might be among, albeit ephemerally, people who understand and have undergone our pain themselves. We've been where you are Julie and now we've left.
I can understand that it is even harder for you now, because you built your belief mantras with your deceased husband.
When some one calls himself the lord of love he gets into every private corner of our life.
You are trapped, and there is only way out, the way you came in. Stop saying that stuff and start making sense.
Start reprogramming yourself if that's what it takes, but we don't need robotic ex-premies either. Just be your natural concept free original self you were before you fell into this weird spiritual trap.
I have never deliberately insulted you Julie, if you feel I have, forgive me please.
I once said you sounded like guru maharaj ji. That would be a heinous insult to me, but why would it be an insult to you?
In concern for your mind
Lp
Ps And please turn off the italics! Or are you deliberately trying to irritate people?
Modified by LP at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 08:45:31
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LP, You really said it all and so well too. Right down to the italics. Julie, In my opinion, you need to read through LP's post slowly and carefully. Indeed, show it to your kids if any of them have half a mind to see how their mother's coming off with this crowd. Then you need to carefully respond to it, bit by bit, on point and without reverting to simply throwing up your shield, as LP put it. When you do that, especially as often as you do, you come off like a robot. Here's a chance for you to raise your interaction to a better level. If you can't, my vote is that you really do go away. One or the other, that's for sure.
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Welcome back, Jim: missed you.
Lp
Modified by LP at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 10:08:21
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Hi, I was at an old family friend's wedding in Mexico. Hot as hell but nice in the water. Great seeing these guys as well, many of whom I'd lost touch with for years and years. Came home to Victoria and, hell, it's almost just as hot!
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hello Jim How are you today? "Well i hope."Thank you for ur opinion in relation to u THINKING I need to read LP's letter twice. In relation to my Family I dont share my post with them. Do u have Children yourself. Did I tell u before Maharaji named one of my Children..not that it means anything to you...but it does to me! Im a very polite person and learn to respect that my friend. Have u ever thought it might be you thats sounding like a robot and no one else. How about u raising your interaction to a better level Dear. I still like you though, and would have no reason not to..now would I Jim. Ive enjoyed reading your posts. Have fun today Jim and keep ur sunny side up, Love and best wishes Julie x
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Hello LP, Dont be concerned for my mind LP, be concerned for ur own.Sorry if I didnt respond to you when you asked me to read anths journey...well not only did I read it..but Anth and I have written nice letters to each other since. Anth and his Wife are very nice people whom I know personally. Anths story is interesting and true..I know that. Everyone has a story before they came to Maharaji, while they are with him and also after they leave him..those that do that is. Everyones story has an interest. Does that answer ur question LP? What i am saying makes sence to me, and have you ever thought what some people are saying to me doesn't make sence! Ive had some people say things to me that are not true, yet they think they're right. thats the nature of the mind LP.I dont hold that against anyone though, as most of the people on the forum dont know me, if they did then they would take a completely different view towards me and what I have to say. I have no reason to write here other than to share what I know to be true in my life..is that allowed LP? I dont mind anyone accusing me incorrectly..my concious is clear, and thats what matters. i know I am a sincere person and wouldnt hurt a fly. I speak the truth from my own experiences..is that allowed LP. so many rules. O and by the way whats the trip about the italics? Is that another rule? LP I dont think you are trying to insult me, nor would I insult you or anyone else for that matter. im glad you feel free and open enough to say what u want to me. Feel comfortable to say what you feel. Its an indication of your maturity.You did say once I sounded like Maharaji..that did make me smile ok LP. Whats insulting to one person, can be a total complement to another. Thanks a lot for that long letter LP. All my Love and Best Wishes to you Julie x
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You answered my question about Anth's journey. Thankyou.
I think you do hold it against those posters, though I only think they were trying to wake you up out of your delusion, ultimately, for your own well being.
We are not telling you what to say or not say, just pointing out that your mental programming is showing.
I did not make any rules. I asked you, I thought politely, to be considerate, but like a premie you can only feel the consideration maharaj ji approves of i.e. of and towards him.
You just can't take hearing the truth about maharaj ji, not opinion: truth.
You respond as if you were insulted, when I have only described as true a perspective as I can, of what is actually the case, re: Rawat.
Maharaj ji and his unfortunate servants think they see a way round by saying, "Everyone is entitled to an opinion," Yes we are, but we also deal in fact. Reality. Truth. Self evident. Documented.
Substantiated by very many testimonies and, most validating of all, our personal experience.. Most have still not come along and broken the ice to communicate. They try to put a bad patch in their life behind them, and forget it.
We have had, perhaps, experiences which we cannot so easily forget or dismiss. This is not a malevolent place. This forum is the only help I have had to deal with my maharaji induced pain in 30 years. Sorry if it puts maharaj ji in a bad light, wait, no I'm not. Serves him right.
Premies and Rawat, I suppose, think we should just suffer all our lives and never say a word, so as not to spoil maharaji's little business.
We should, I suppose, stand back and let maharaj ji have some more people to drain of life, and leave empty and hurting.
This all hinges on the fact that you believe a lie. And so much so that no truths even register.
Are premies going to help? They see my pain as an insult, an attack, and like you, go aggressively on the defensive and then hurt us more
for maharaji's sake. I am so familiar with this reaction from real life situations over many, many years. It is so predictable and so identical as to be obviously due to indoctrination.
The only difference is you put a little loving card in with your sour grapes. It is in my opinion hypocritical.
Your deliberate use of italics after a half a dozen people told you they found it irritating proves to me that you do not regard us as actual people at all, but only as maharaji critics and it proves your intention is to annoy.
Lp
Modified by LP at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 12:22:32
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Madness? Whatever you are feeling right now is totally normal. You had the courage to judge him. I don't know if he is mad, what I know if that he has a good bussiness. He knows in MHO what he is doing.Now, you are on your way of freeing yourself from 30 years brainwashing. The process can be as painful as you want it to be. LAUGH. You made it out. Many will not. All the bad feeling you have now WILL go away with time. If I got better anybody can..... I know madness because when I understood the sick relationship I had with him and that I wanted to leave him behind, my mind went out of control for a while. I read, and read pages, after pages of EPO which help me to deprogram my mind, little by little. I got some counseling, which it helped too, not because the therapist understood what I was talking about, but talking helped me clarify my "madness". I recommend you to get professional help. I don't know exactly what you are feeling, but it seems for your words that you may benefit with therapy. Have read this pages? http://www.fwbo-files.com/CofC.htm#Disability Take good care of yourself. AXIS, ex-slave of the lard of the universe.
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Dear Friend, I just read your post and am sorry to hear you are feeling sad, its not good to feel sad and hopefully it wont last for too long. May i suggest that you think posative and in time things will change for you. If you have a problem then its a good idea to share it with someone...a problem shared is a problem halved. I received Knowledge 33yrs ago and am very glad to have it! Maharaji has been only good to me...now I cant say the same for some of the volenteers which I have met over the years..I have met the rudest people and its quite clear they dont practise being peaceful. I worked in a pyschiactric hospital for a number of years and met the nicest and sainest people there. Lots of people who attend psychiatric hospitals are far from mad..most of them only need someone to talk to, and hear what upset them in the first place.You sound like a very sane person to me and im sure you are. If I can be of any help to you please let me know. The only thing about me is im a practising premie...if you have no problem with that then everythings ok between us. Write to me if you want...I dont even know ur name or if ur Female or Male? Dont worry too much and everything will get ok for you. Lots of Love to you my friend. and best wishes Julie x
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I received Knowledge 33yrs ago and am very glad to have it! Maharaji has been only good to me... If you only knew what he did to you.... Reading your posts is absolutly SAD. Someone is asleep and sorry to remind you, IT IS YOU, Julie.... Blind devotion is dangerous. Educate yourself. Take off the blinders....
Modified by AXIS at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 16:37:40
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Hi Axis, Nice to meet.
Lp
Modified by LP at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 19:56:42
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Thanks for your welcome, but is not my first time around here. Just a change of handle. I have posted here before. Me well
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Julie, This isn't my forum, but I'm going to tell you anyway: Please stay out of this thread, Julie, you're not helping anyone, including yourself. You may think you're being nice, loving, and warm and fuzzy, but frankly you're being a hindrance, so please stop it now. If you knew anything about mental illness or depression or the symptoms of leaving a destructive personality cult, like Prem Rawat's, then you would not suggest that someone "just think posative [sic]." It simply doesn't work that way. You probably have good intentions, Julie, but as they say, "the road to hell is paved with them." Thanks.
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 17:00:51
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Hello Cynthia, Thats right Cynthia it isint your forum and I already know that, nor is it mine! As its not urs, its also not up to you to tell me what to do nor to tell anyone else for that matter either. I dont think im Loving and warm...I know I am. Try telling someone else what to do as you are negative with your appproach. In relation to my expertise in the field of psychiarty, you know nothing about me, as I know nothing about you and your profession. As I mentioned in a post to my sad friend how I have worked in the psychiatric services for many years ,and believe me to think posative is a very constructive thing to do. Try it Cynthia and u will surprise even yourself. Im a posative thinker myself and would have no reason what so ever to think I knew you, or anyone else writing on John and Mikes forum. I am in no position to talk to you about your profession, nor are you to talk about mine. you are entitled to your negative opinion though! Do what you know best to help our sad friend as I am doing.Stay posative Cynthia no matter what and all the best to you.The road to Heaven is also paved with good intentions Cynthia..just in case you didn't know already... as you appear to be a very knowledgeable person, at least you think you are. Love and Best Wishes Julie x
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Staying "positive" is not at all the best way to help someone. Staying positive in the face of devasting grief or evidence of betrayal denies reality and the normal and healing emotions one feels when they have to face sad or painful realities. Here is an analogy for you Julie. I work often with grieving families. People who endure the loss of babies. I also have a friend who had a child die at age three recently in an accident. Do you suggest I stay positive with these people? Do you think it helps people heal to say "God wanted an angel"? Or at least you can have another one....or the many many cruel platitudes people use? Mostly, many people cannot face that life is not ALWAYS joyful or good or positive. Sometimes we have to walk through some pretty horrible stuff. Trying to stay "positive" and especially saying that to people who are suffering denies their feelings and their reality, and truly is a slap in the face, and a kick while they are down. Julie, you may not want to face it but your perfect gentleman Prem Rawat is a fake. People like this poster are HURTING because they are facing that reality. IT HURTS. You are coming in and saying....oh I don't think he really is a fake IS CRUEL. We know you don't believe it. But lay off PLEASE because these people are in a painful stage and what you are doing is mean. Julie, I think deep down you know that too. THat is what makes me really angry because I think you know you are causing them pain with these posts. You put on this I am always happy anda positive persona and frankly, it feels like a slap in the face. I have dealt with people who do this the non web world and I tell you, when you have the whole picture, you KNOW these people on some level know they are being cruel. Julie, your posts are cruel. Listen to me and stop it.
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You must be happy about seeing Maharaji soon. Isn't he going to be in your neck of the woods in July? Have you preregistered yet? What's it like to have a SmartCard? I never had one.
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 12:13:22
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Hello Cynthia, Im happy that Maharaji is coming to Ireland on 11th July. I havnt preregistered nor do I intend too. I dont approve of the system the so called volenteers have come up with. Just like you Cynthia I dont have a smart card, nor do I intend to get one. The volenteers have made it like an exclusive club and im not part of it. I believe everyone should be treated the same and as you know thats not the way it is with the programme crews, they think they know it all. im not part of that behaviour Cynthia, nor would I like to be. I will go to see Maharaji but possibly weont go into the hall as the volenteers dont like that i confront them about their bad behaviour towards people who dont agree with them. some of them are real bullies. and thats not my scene at all,at all. I never did own a smart card Cynthia, nor do I intend to own one.Im on your side in lots of ways if only you can see it Cynthia. we are all equal and should be treated the same and Im sure you will agree with me on that. Lots of love and all the best Cynthia. Love Julie x
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But if you won't go into the hall how will you see Mr Perfect Gentleman Rawat? Does he come out to see you in the street and talk with you personally for an hour or so?
But anyway I agree we are all equal and should be treated the same so I'd like you to give me some money so I can buy a gigantic Malibu mansion and a jet plane. Oh wait a minute you mean, we all are equal but Mr Rawat is equaller than the rest of us. I can live with you thinking that.
Anyway as you've had Knowledge so long and think it is so good I'd like to ask a few questions. Did you destory your Irish Divine Light Mission magazines back in 1982 or did you not approve of the "volunteers" orders and keep them? Did you keep remembering Holy Name all the time before and after 1987 or did you obey the Perfect Gentleman's agya and only do 3rd technique 15 minutes a day. I've got to say that not meditating all the time must have been quite a challenge after your 15 years of constant meditation.
And who did you receive Knowledge from? Did he (or she) squeeze your eyes too hard like Padarthanand did to me? What a shame they didn't send Padarthanand to Ireland where he would have fit in so well with you other paddies.
And do you keep pushing your tongue all the way back up your throat for 4th technique? See I have a problem with this. If Shri Hans, the father and person who meditated for years under the careful guidance of Shri Swarupanand said to push your tongue right back up around your uvula and Fatboy Shorty, the Playboy of the Western World, says not to then who am I to believe? I've got to go with the father, wouldn't you agree? He looks so much more believable.
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"What a shame they didn't send Padarthanand to Ireland where he would have fit in so well with you other paddies."
Is that supposed to be funny? Goes to show that the Irish are still the blacks of Europe (in some peoples' silly heads). Maybe one reason Darwin is popular in England is because he was racist against the Irish (and most other people).
"The Irish are the blacks of Europe.So say it loud,I’m
black and I’m proud. " - from the movie The Commitments (1991).
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I know that Padarthanand was pretty dark-skinned but how does that make calling Irish "paddies" racist? We're called "aussies", citizens of the USA are called "yanks", British people are called "poms" and Irish are called "paddies".
Darwin is popular in Enlgand cause he was a racist? I don't know if he is popular in England however he is revered as one of the great three of science not because of his "racism" but because of his concepts of evolution and natural selection.
While I enjoyed the "Committments" the day will never come when I listen again to some young Irish boys play and sing the songs of such great black singers as Percy Sledge, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin, Ann Peebles, Al Green, Clarence Carter and whoever else and if that makes me a racist, well so be it!
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I think it is unfair to label Charles Darwin a racist. He was a committed liberal, supported Gladstone and the abolition of slavery. He may have absorbed many of the assumptions of the times about the 'advanced' status of Western cultures (so would you or I have done, probably), but he was humane and humanitarian, IMO. There were certainly others who came after him who distorted Darwinian theory to promote eugenicist agendas, but as for Darwin himself, he was probably the first scientist to recognise the human 'universals' shared by all cultures / races, as illustrated in his book on facial expressions. He regarded the Tierra Del Feugan's who sailed back home from England in 'The Voyage of the Beagle' with respect and affection (albeit with a large dose of typical Victorian paternalism). I know he removed an 'e' from 'Downe' House, to avoid confusion with the Irish County of that name, but I am not sure that makes him anti-Irish. During the Irish potato famine of 1845, he instructed his household that 'gentlefolk should not eat potatos' [while peasants are starving]. You could certainly accuse Darwin's eugenicist cousin, Francis Galton, of racism, but I have seen scant evidence you can the same about Darwin, himself.
Modified by Nigel at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 11:28:59
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Hey, it takes a bongo to spot one and she qualifies if she isn't 100 percent behind M's "program." Not getting a smart card nor ever intending to, as she mentioned at least 3 times in as many sentences, is the first sign of bongo-hood.Of course, badmouthing the organization that M worked so hard to build would be a rapid-fire number 2 on the bongo-qualifier list. Actually having the gall to argue with the "leadership" would be a good number 3. (one, two, three strikes, you're out!) I guess she will just go to the program, stand outside waiting for a glimpse of the holy personage and throw herself at his feet. That would just about clinch it!
Modified by NAR at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 12:15:34
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Did you ever see Padarthanand say racist stuff? I did, in 1975. It was a big drip even before I knew it was dripping!
Modified by Joe at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 18:37:09
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I don't believe I ever heard him say anything I would have termed racist, but I didn't see him as often as you probably did.Just interested, so you don't have to be exact in your "quotes." Content would be quite enough
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He said the black people were lazy, and too much into physical pleasures and in that sense "like people from Tahiti" who were inherently lacking in motivation to be really dedicated to knowledge or M. This was said on the side to me and at least one other premie in the course of a knowledge selection in San Antonio, Texas in 1975. He rejected a black guy I worked with for the reasons stated. I have to tell you, it really freaked me out at the time that this supposed dedicated Mahatma who had experienced the true purpose of life and peace was such a racist. I can't recall anyone ever saying anything to me like that, let alone in that context. Padarthanand also was pretty egotistical. He was always giving "pacific-sang" in which he talked about how together everything was in the Pacific, all due to him because it was all his fiefdom for years, before he came to the USA and was just one of many Initiators. I think he had a hard time with that.
Modified by Joe at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 14:32:04
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I would have walked right then and there, if I had heard that! Well, at least I would have walked away from him, as I am pretty sure you did, mentally if not physically. What an arsehole! People from tahiti are more happy-go-lucky. They live in a beautiful place with natural wonders galore! I lived on a pacific isle for awhile and they aren't without warts, but still. I wouldn't say pacific islanders were "lacking in motivation, though." They are on "island time" and that is a time that goes with the seasons and other natural rhythms where they reside. If Padarthanand didn't understand that, then he didn't understand ANYTHING about these people. As to what he said about blacks....... I won't even grace that with a response....... Well, yes I will! I grace it with a chorus of "what an arsehole!" You are right..... he's a racist! Thanks Joe!
Modified by NAR at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 14:38:02
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"I dont have a smart card, nor do I intend to get one"
good
"I believe everyone should be treated the same"
I agree with that in a certain sense.
"the volenteers dont like that i confront them about their bad behaviour towards people who dont agree with them"
Yes, there is an atmosphere of intolerance in Elan Vital. Could it be that some of it stems from Prem Rawat? How well do you really know him? Have you heard him raise his voice?
"some of them are real bullies"
I noticed that, for example I was helping set up a program, in the middle of the set up, a 'honcho' stopped everything, told us all to sit down, then yelled at us, saying we were going too slow.
I'm sorry to say that at one time I was a bully, when I was in Maharaji's ashram and for some time afterwards. Eventually I wisened up.
Eventually I thought, maybe my bad behavior has something to do with following Prem Rawat.
"we are all equal and should be treated the same"
That includes not putting Prem Rawat on a pedestal.
I've met some people who do breath meditation (and other aspects of yoga) who seem to me much more peaceful and content than Prem Rawat. They don't follow him and probably never did. They never asked that I look up to them. I complemented one on her peace of mind and she seemed almost embarrassed by the complement.
G
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I have thought before that maybe the reason you post here is because premies aren't allowed to have open discussion. Like what you say about smart cards. Do you really believe Maharaji would like you to have a smart card, but the volunteers have made a system that keeps you away? Do you really believe he is so powerless that the volunteer premies get away with having policies he disapproves of? Julie, for decades Prem Rawat has blamed anything that hasn't worked out on the premies, Mahatmas, volunteers....he never has taken responsibility for anything in DLM/EV/TPRF...or whatever incarnation it takes next...when in reality, its hard to think of anyone who has MORE control of a group of people than he has over premies. If they are excluding you, the blame for that starts at the top. NO WAY the premies/volunteers would keep you, or anyone out, he wanted in. Yes. Some of them are mean bullies. I am glad you see that. What you need to see next is Prem Rawat has seen fit to keep those mean bullies around for decades, not out of mercy, but self interest. I don't believe that premies or Prem Rawat are really as concerned for your well being Julie as most of us ex's.
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not by half, or even remotely
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 18:02:01
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Hi SusanI think you have it right. Julie is here cos no one else will have her! I don't believe that premies or Prem Rawat are really as concerned for your well being Julie as most of us ex's. Julie: most of us here care about you. Well, I care about you anyway (can't really speak for anyone else). But it would be good if you engaged a bit more. This Forum is for those who have been where you are now, ie premies, but who no longer believe that Maharaji is who we all thought he was for so long. We post here for a variety of purposes, but mostly it is to deconstruct our experience and our involvement with M and the Knowledge. This involves discussion, rationalisation, supporting one's views and if you disagree with someone else's views, then giving reasons *why* you disagree. I have noticed that all the posts to you that ask you questions about M, difficult questions that might make you think and possibly modify your views, you ignore completely. This may be because: -- you cannot think rationally (which I don't believe), or -- because you just do not want to, which is fine as a personal choice, but is not fine on this Forum, because that is its purpose. -- or it is because you are in some pain, and it is just too painful to think anything even remotely negative about Maharaji. If your reason is the last one, then we will certainly cut you some slack, and try to help as best we can. I think you have been given more consideration, care, and yes love, here than from any premies. And that will continue, at least from me. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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Hi Mike, Im not here because no one else wants me as you said to Susan. Im here because I like communication. Im a good person Mike and I always answer everyone to the best of my ability. Im into Love peace and harmony. Im glad you like me Mike, and |I like you too! I always liked you when I met you in the past over the years as I told you before, and always enjoyed hearing what you had to say. Im not your judge Mike, nor am I anyone elses either. My intentions are good, always were and always will be. Mike you do understand im into practising Knowledge and am not here to tell anyone what they should, or shouldn't do! Im friendly with people wheather they have knowledge or not, or wheather they practise or not. I dont mind, and its not up to me. As i said Mike I answer everyone honestly, and to the best of my ability...is that not good enough. why do you doubt me my Friend?Mike im not in any pain and have a clear vision. Im a helper on the earthfor Love and Peace and thats ok..isint it Mike. Mike you know I dont think anything negative about Maharaji, nor do I think anything negative about you or any of the people who have written to me on this forum..as a matter of fact I cant say I know any of them and it would take more than a few letters to get to know each other,so im not into judging anyone as some of them want to judge me...Incorrectly. I will discuss anything interesting and the practise and non practise of Knowledge is very interesting to me...is that allowed Mike?im trying my best..but maybe my best is just not good enough for everyone on this forum. Lets see what happens..but im not hamful,im friendly and it would be great if everyone realised that Mike. Lots of Love Julie x
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I haven't seen hide nor hair of a premie in these parts for awhile. Are we cutting off our only source of "ancient wisdom" if we recommend this?
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I am still here, but have not been inclined to post after seeing how Julie has been treated in this forum.
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Are you a premie? Julie is acting like an imbecile, Sean. How would you respond to her posts? If you are a premie, is that what you want to be associated with? I really want to know.
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>Are you a premie? Yes, more or less. >Julie is acting like an imbecile, Sean. Perhaps. I have also been known to act like one on occasion. >How would you respond to her posts? I don't know. I would note that I am a white male living in Texas. Around here, racism is not an attitude, it is a lifestyle; so I usually experience it from the other side. Posts about Paddies make me feel right at home, but not in a good way. And phrasing it "as a joke" just means that the poster is aiming at castration instead of lynching. >If you are a premie, is that what you want to be associated with? If I see someone being ganged up on, then yes, I want to be associated with that person. I think it is wrong to do that. What they believe in is not so much a concern. >I really want to know. Thanks for asking, I don't mean any disrespect to the people on this forum. Sean
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Hi SeanI am still here, but have not been inclined to post after seeing how Julie has been treated in this forum I think Julie has been treated pretty good in general. I agree there are some responses that suck, but the point is that this forum is for ex-premies - people who see Maharaji's message as something unwholesome, and are trying to come to terms with that, often after having given him personally, and his message, their all for many years. Given that that is the purpose of this Forum, then someone who posts nothing but praise for Maharaji and what he means in her life, and gives no reasons other than the same ones that we all believed in once but are now trying to deconstruct, well she will get a rough ride. Rather like me going into a Texas bar and saying we should scrap oil and all live on solar energy; or how about 'I think Sam Houston sucks, and you should still be part of Mexico!' If I see someone being ganged up on, then yes, I want to be associated with that person. I think it is wrong to do that. What they believe in is not so much a concern On this Forum belief is a concern. Not that you have to believe a party line, but as I say, the purpose of this Forum is to examine our once-held and current beliefs about Maharaji. For anyone who want to post, including of course premies, then as Forum admins John and I will do our best to stop nasty and unwarranted attacks, and to allow that person to express themselves freely. But premies will be in the minority, and will be robustly challenged. I don't know you, Sean, so I don't know if what I am about to say is true for you. Given your moderate and respectful post, possibly not. But for a fully committed premie, it is extremely hard to get outside the Maharaji belief-system and to view it objectively, largely because part of that belief-system is that there is no belief system (it is all experience). So when a committed premie is asked, even respectfully, to support their views and give their reasons, they can regard even that request in itself as being hostile. Certainly that is how I saw it when I was a fully paid-up premie. I wish you the best anyway. You are most welcome here, whether to just read, or to post occasionally. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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Thank you, Mike. I don't have words here, please see my email. With all respect, Sean
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Hi Sean, I'm the guy who made the Padarthanand / paddie wordplay. I don't think it deserves the use of the word 'joke'. I find your comments about this being 'racist' to be insulting and complete nonsense. I don't know if you know who the former Mahatma Padarthanand was but here in Australia we fondly called him 'Paddy' amongst each other and back in the early 70's here pretty well considered him a saint. He was very dark skinned and I might understand you accusng me of racism if I'd made derogoratory comments about him because of his race but to carry on about racism because I used a slang term for Irish people who are whiter then I am (it's pretty sunny over here and pretty rainy over there) is bloody ridiculous. As for the treatment of Julie that has nothing to do with her being a premie at all. It has to do with her disgracefully rude and thoughtless behaviour here. As a matter of fact she isn't a premie she's a devotee of Julie. She doesn't obey Rawat's rules and makes a nuisance of herself at programs and she's mad isn't she? Could anybody be so selfishly obsessed with themselves if they weren't? But hey, she's far more of a problem to actual sane premies over in Ireland than she is here.
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What's going on? It seems like Julie hit a raw nerve in you. As for the treatment of Julie that has nothing to do with her being a premie at all. It has to do with her disgracefully rude and thoughtless behaviour here. As a matter of fact she isn't a premie she's a devotee of Julie. She doesn't obey Rawat's rules and makes a nuisance of herself at programs and she's mad isn't she? Could anybody be so selfishly obsessed with themselves if they weren't? But hey, she's far more of a problem to actual sane premies over in Ireland than she is here. It's sounds like something was all pent up and you vented it all on Julie like a volocano exploded without warning or something. I think you're over-reacting. Ocker, the words "mad, "sane," etc., are meaningless terms and are pejoratives that only serve to hurt people, not help. EV does that kind of stigmatization of people like me who have had mental/emotional problems in the past. Btw, Prem Rawat is great example of someone who is totally self-absorbed. I call it narcissism, which is a bona fide personality disorder, with real criteria, not slang that says nothing but insults and demeans. Narcissism has nothing to do with "sanity." Be well, Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 06:26:28
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Well I guess as I'm "psychoanalysing" Julie I can't complain when you do the same to me but no the hostility isn't pent up it's an immediate reaction to Julie and her extraordinary narcissism. Yes, well said Julie, narcissim seems the perfect word to describe Julie. Those words "mad" and "crazy", they're not quite meaningless, we all have a pretty good idea what they mean and of course they're pejorative. That's why I'm using them. I find Julie's posts disgusting and I'm insulting her and as far as I'm concerned she deserves to be insulted, demeaned and hurt because she's insulting and demeaning us with her babble and her pseudo-love and kindness.
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I really enjoy both of your posts these days. You're both sharp as hell and quite the individuals. Cynthia, Ocker, don't change a thing (unless I tell you to, of course!)
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Are you a premie? Yes, more or less.
Can you explain that one a bit more? Waivering? Sort of on the fringe?
Julie is acting like an imbecile, Sean. Perhaps. I have also been known to act like one on occasion.
So have we all, I'm sure, but repeatedly and willfully? I doubt it. Your phrase, "on occasion" is exactly right. She seems to be enjoying being an annoyance.
I disagree that she is being ganged up on. She plops herself into this forum, spouts her pollyannaish crap and continually refuses to discuss anything. If she just wants a "fun" forum where people can write about how wonderful and positive they are, no doubt she can find one. I beleve she is doing this acting up purposefully to irritate people and distract the focus of this forum. I may be wrong, but I've watched her posts and there is certainly no substance to them. Why is she here?
<>Texas is a great place; I've been there many times. I'd ask you what part are you from and so forth, but you may not want to discuss anymore than you've already said. If you do, great. If not, that's fine, too.
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I think I would like to speak with Sean. Of course, I don't know why that is, since he hasn't really said anything yet, but I would hope he would not use Julie as the reason.Sean, everything PS said is right on. Think of it this way: You are trying to talk to someone about a fishing expedition or your latest vacation to Alaska. The person you are talking to ignores YOUR topic and starts talking about fine china and only talks about that...... see the point? I KNOW you have had discussions with people like that.... we all have! Wouldn't you call that rude? THIS is Julie in spades! You come here and talk "on topic" and speak with some honesty when asked questions, you will receive a decent response. If you try to change the subject or pretend that the subject doesn't exist and you will get an earful....... fair? I think so!
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>>Are you a premie? Yes, more or less.
>Can you explain that one a bit more? Waivering? Sort of on the >fringe?
Less: I don't practice meditation as much as I would like, nor satsang and service. Living the past 20 years as a householder has a lot to do with that. More: Meditation has been a great gift, IMHO. Clearly it does not work for everyone, but it works for me. Neutral: My relationship with Maharaji has been changing. I use the word advisedly because I have never met him in person. Partly as a result of this forum and its previous incarnations, and partly due to changes in my beliefs after becoming a Lutheran. <>Texas is a great place; I've been there many times. I'd ask you >what part are you from and so forth, but you may not want to >discuss anymore than you've already said. If you do, great. If >not, that's fine, too. Pflugerville, which is not really as hick as it sounds. It is about 15 miles from Austin. I have lived either in San Antonio or here almost continuously since 1974.
Sean
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Meditation is pretty straightforward for most people and as you say some people like it and find it useful and others don't. I liked it a lot but after realising that it was not going to cause any major life and consciousness changes I stopped doing it regularly because I'm not intrested in the effects it has. I don't smoke marihuana either, not necessarily because it's illegal, but because I prefer my normal consciousness. I remember quite a few premies who didn't like meditation but did it because they worshipped Prem Rawat and he said they should do it. That's a bit weird.But what interests me is why you call it a gift. I mean I know you use that terminology because that is the Elan Vital dogma and you've probably heard it repeated countless times but it's sort of like thanking your kindergarten teacher for the gift of simple arithmetic as if you could only learn it from her because she always told you that arithmetic can only be learnt from her and if you are taught it by someone else it won't work. And the simple arithmetic metaphor is a pretty good one because "Knowledge" is very basic meditation and many meditation teachers from different schools would consider it ridiculous that people would continue with the same base grade techniques for 30 years. And then unless you've "received Knowledge" in the last what 10 years or so you'd have learnt the techniques from someone else and yet you're not thanking them or considering it a gift from them. It's even possible that you learnt the techniques from someone who now considers them of little value and Rawat himself a charlatan. Nearly all the Indian premies went back to India with Mata Ji, Rawat's mother, and considered that Prem Rawat had lost his guruhood through playboying and lots of the "Western" initiators and instructors have left the fold. While there are some Christian denominations that could encompass you're having a respectful, though probably not worshipful, one way relationship with Prem Rawat I really can't see Lutheranism being one of them unless they've turned into one of those wishy-washy New Age Christianities. I suggest you discuss your situation with your pastor and see what he thinks about Prem Rawat and his Knowledge. Could be interesting for both of you.
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I don't get how maharaji manages to make people feel so completely over the top grateful to him alone, for the knowledge and after a while pretty much anything else good.
Suppose I came along now and a friend says, "There's some good suggestions for meditation on this site", and shows one of the many sites where this meditation and various others are clearly explained or say, a book of the same nature.
I wouldn't want to dedicate my life to the guy who passed on the information, or who put up the website or wrote the book. I might think they're pretty hip or not, but that's as far it goes.
Surely all this other adoration and surrender has to come from maharaji's or his family's own suggestions. Westerners had no prior role model that taught them pranams or ashram life or ideas of who owns your mind, or who is and who is not 'essence of the universe'.
Sure we have other concepts of how to connect or devote with God, but these are recognisably different.
I am reflecting on the argument that is sometimes put forward that we did it of our own free will.
Somehow maharaji managed to teach us to do all that (or made sure others did) along with giving us the techniques; and I'm still dazed and puzzled as to how it happened.
Now if I was curious in that way, and of course, I'm not. I would just browse through the kriyas on a couple of websites get the gist of it, try them out and probably move on to the next thing. Minutes, an hour or two, an occasional reflection when you stand in the wind. possibly, one day, making it a part of morning exercises if you are that way inclined.
But not your whole life!
Lp
Ps I think we liked the idea of the master making us meditate for our own good.
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 08:22:17
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I don't get how maharaji manages to make people
feel so completely over the top grateful to him alone, for the
knowledge and after a while pretty much anything else good.
If I've asked this question once, I must have asked it 4,000 times. I don't understand how he does it. "Grateful to Maharaji". What the hell for? Relieving you of hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars over the years? For making you an emotional cripple? If you believe that your peace and your happiness are because of someone else, then you most assuredly are an emotional cripple.
Hey, Premies, how about we use Maharaji's mind control techniques on the prisoners in Cuba to convince them how wonderful their prison stay is? That okay with everybody? It wouldn't even be that hard. Think about it.
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I think these and others behaviors are seen when a person
practices surrender, sacrifice, devotion and service to
something greater than themself. These are noble actions IMO,
perhaps among the best we are capable of as people.It's not just premie or ex-premie, anyone who has acted
in this way at some point in their lives has done something
that uplifts us all, and has my respect. Sorry if this post is an overreaction, it's a subject near
to my heart.
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Hi sean, I've read your last post several times over and I must confess to feeling I missed something somewhere:
"I think these and others behaviours"
"These are noble actions"
"anyone who has acted
in this way"
What behaviours, what other behaviours, what actions? what way? Can you elaborate?
Sorry if I'm asking the obvious.
Lp (who needs it spelt out)
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 13:36:03
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Although my response was to premie-spouse, it was also
informed by your "Gratitude?" post.I can imagine that some people may be tricked into following
Maharaji and then emotionally coerced into a lifestyle that
they don't really want. Children of premies in particular
may be subject to this; it is something I have been very
careful about. I would consider this very bad behavior
by anyone who practiced it. And I can imagine that some people go through the motions
in order to rise to the inner circle in Malibu. I would
just consider this sad. But I think that it is possible to perform actions like
giving money, feeling gratitude, performing menial tasks,
and many other things, that are motivated by the very best
inside us, as described earlier. In such cases I would
want to separate the worthiness of the motivation from
the worthiness of the object of devotion. I realize this
is a slippery slope, because someone is bound to come up
with a counterexample, perhaps a "Pure-hearted Islamic
suicide bomber", or some such. I am not sure I know
exactly where is the line dividing the two, although the
extremes seem clear enough.
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How I've been able to maintain my conceptual basis for my liking for and love of some premies for the past 25 years since I apostated is quite simple and as you state. I mean I like or love people anyway no matter what I think but one tends to wonder about the situation when Rawat is so obviously a phony.
I can see quite clearly that their motivation is positive and even noble. I don't know many premies "users" and those I've met I've stayed away from. For most active premies, their premiehood is a sort of burden, they give money time and voluntary work, even though they consider the emotional responses an adequate reward.
However, as you point out, where do you draw the line? To me, it was pretty simple, I weighed the doctrines of Divine Light Mission (as it was then), the claims made for Prem Rawat and the meditation, and the actual results after nearly a decade of involvement and realised it didn't add up. Many premies became involved without the prior knowledge or maturity to realise such a comparison should be made on an onging basis and have accepted everything and anything Rawat has done and told them.
So if you understand the difference between worthiness of motivation and worthiness of object of devotion and heart responses (remember many people have devoted themselves to unworthy and even evil causes and Masters) your chances of remaining a premie are slight as far as I can see.
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Testing the guru on a ongoing basis contradicts the traditional guru-disciple relationship. This relationship involves mutual testing before acceptance to check whether both the disciple and the guru are worthy after acceptance, gratitude, loyalty, obedience, and often devotion to the guru following the spiritual practices that he teaches often deification of the guru
Andries
Modified by Andries at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 19:08:45
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That may be true in a personal, small-scale relationship but with these modern big-time gurus there is no personal relationship. To me the only thing that matters is number 3 and there is no doubt in my mind that I followed those practices at least as well as the majority of the people around at the time. No-one can look into another person's soul but peoples' behaviour is an obvious pointer. You always saw the same faces arriving early at satsang, you always saw the same people treating it as a spiritual event rather than a social event, you always saw the same bodies remaining in the meditation room when you got up to go, you always saw the same faces doing service, you always saw the same people supporting others, you always heard the same people whining about their "experience". Now everybody constantly tests their guru in unconscious form and that is how I did it also. One day instead of going on accepting that what I was doing and experiencing and thinking were right I realised there was more to life than being happy and no premies I knew were experiencing more. Well that's not quite true, the "high guys" were still "high", the gopis were still gopis, the "space cats were still "space cats" and no progression had occurred only a change in language and focus. Did you have the same sort of thing in SSBism?
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Thanks sean I see what you mean now.
It's the third paragraph that has a debatable set of outcomes, the first two I agree on.
I agree there are always some premies who sincerely think they are dedicating themselves or their efforts toward a noble cause. The farther away, the easier it is to maintain such faith. Those who are close, who see the flaws in maharaj ji's lifestyle and behaviour are faced with a decision.
I think a process of self lying begins here. At first one thinks a little white lie is OK for a good cause.
When it becomes more severe, there is the possibility that they will realise that, having ascertained that the whole thing hinges on the master, if the master is flawed the whole thing is flawed.
If they wanted to leave but carry on meditating they could, but they do not feel entitled without his say so. At this point more serious self deception is required to continue.
Some leave at this point. If they stay they are now agreeing it is better to lie and stay in with maharaj ji than to assume to be able to trust any inner sense of virtue or honour, truth or fairplay.
X rated premies are at the extreme end of this degradation of human integrity.
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 17:23:27
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Hi Premie Spouse,
Strange isn't it. There is no other explanation, except that somehow they get convinced he is god. That still has to be what this hoax hinges on. techniques, charity, humanitarian leader? Not enough to make you freeze your mind solid and deny anything to the contrary..
Somewhere behind the scenes, considerable pressure to believe this before initiation must still be going on. I can't see any other way premies would become so blinkered and programmed. The numbers bear this out 400 interested, only 23 prepared to stick their neck out and say they will give up free will for the techniques, believing m to be the business. Otherwise, what's the big deal about being ready.
Humanitarian leader piffle, he's still catching innocents, crowding them into a room and brow beating them until they say they except that he is giving knowledge of god and therefore must be god. His only ace is that he's been taught the importance for him of getting people to commit themselves before taking the knowledge techniques.
Then they are afraid to turn back in case it might be true.
Yechhh!
Modified by LP at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 14:27:25
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That means 400 who haven't made it all the way through the "Keys" videos yet. It doesn't mean they're not trying but the "Keys" program is heaps of DVDs you have to sit through and must be very trying adn take quite a long time.
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>But what interests me is why you call it a gift.
Good point, I was not sure how to describe it and
ended up using those familiar words. I would have to
agree that as meditation techniques go, these are basic.
OTOH, I don't know by what criteria meditation techniques
could be rated as better or worse. >And then unless you've "received Knowledge" in the last >what 10 years 3 days after Millenium in the Rainbow Inn, with Rajeshwar.
I tricked my way in because I only had a few days of satsang
During the interview, Rajeshwar was given a message, so I
talked to his assistant, who forgot to ask me anything.
By the time Rajeshwar turned around to ask what was going
on, his assistant had already let me in.
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Meditation techniques can be rated better or worse by the criteria you must have heard 100 times in 1973. "By their fruits ye shall know them".
I've just watched a video in whihc Rawat blames the mahatmas for the concepts which premies still have to defend themselves against. (Atlanta Training video of 2000)
I only ever heard a mahatma come up with crazy concepts once. I lived in Australia and basically we only had Padarthanand who in those days toed a very straight line. Rajeshwar came to Australia in 74 it must have been with Bal Bhagwan Ji. Unbeknown to ordinary premies the family break-up was happening at that time but the administrators who knew certainly didn't tell any of us ordinary premies in satsang.
Anyway premies were called in for all day (all afternoon?) satsang and Rajeshwar spoke for hours on the "Holy Family". He told us Bal Bhagwan Ji was the incarnation of the Power of God (I think that was the exact term) and although Guru Maharaj ji was Greater than God He could do nothing without Bal Bhagwan Ji's power or some such nonsense. I thought to myself, "I can't accept this" but I also thought "Am I the only person in this room who thinks this is not OK?" I decided to put it aside and not to talk about it. Time will tell I thought. Well the bell tolled much sooner than I thought it would for Bal Bhagwan Ji. I should have exited there and then.
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Hello Sean, Im Julie from Ireland. Just saying hididodi! I just read ur post on the xpremie forum and found it interesting. I met Maharaji many times myself over the years and personally found him to be a very nice Man. I also met his wife Marolyn and she was really down to earth..I liked her.I like Maharaji too, even though the xpremies might not like me for liking him, but I do. As a matter of fact most people are pretty ok as far as im concerned. I remember going to Houston texas in 1973 to see Maharaji. I had a great time. That was my first time to travel abroad apart from England where I lived a few years as a child. It was very hot there and I came bach as red as a tomato from the sun, having fair Irish skin. Sean is a good Irish name. Do take care and love to you and your Family Julie.
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This is what a baby might do with it's fingers if it realised that you were trying to take away it's greatest gift from him or her... It's most important friend for life ~ the mind.
Modified by Hilltop at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 02:20:38
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Hello Hilltop, Thats not what a Baby would do Hilltop, but it is something you would do ok! Would you do that to your Mother? Im someones Mother too and have respect for Ladys Baby Boy! The greatest gift that alll humans are born with is the breath my friend. The human mind is very useful if used in a posative way, its a great gift indeed Hilltop. Good to hear from you though mr cheerful or will refer to you as the Baby Boy? (Just Kidding with you Hilltop) Do take care and remember to respect Ladys. Lots of Love Julie x
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Awe Julie, Your gonna melt me with your kindness. Here's a picture of Prem Rawat. How could anyone not love him and his gift of breath? After all, the mind is only a tool when it comes to Prem Rawat's world of Peace, Love, and Understanding. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I post when I can. I guess I do as the Guru did, I do a "Hit and Run" I hope you understand. However, isn't this a really powerful picture of Prem Rawat? Much Love Too You! Breathfully Your's... Hilltop
Modified by Hilltop at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 22:57:15
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This thread started off being about (and for) someone who is having a bad time - now it's all about you. Typical bloody premie ! N
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This is getting bizarre,
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 15:52:00
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Bizarre that it gives a creepy feeling in my tummy. I hope "insearchoftruth" is okay. I'm otta this thread for good.
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There's no question in my mind about Cynthia being much more than positive. She has been giving her time helping others here for quite some time now. It's the positive truth! She might not like me saying this but... God Bless Her! We are fortunate to have her here in my honest opinion! I think Cynthia is a treasure! I'm more than positive about it and that's a fact... Hilltop
Modified by Hilltop at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 04:27:33
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You, as always, speak the truth well, Hilltop.
Modified by LP at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 05:06:51
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Hello Hilltop, How are you? Theres no question in my mind about Cynthia one way or the other Hilltop. I dont know the Lady, ive never met her and have had very little communication with her. Im delighted to know shes been helpful to others, and thats what its all about. I believe you hilltop as you appear to know the Lady and I dont, just like she doesnt know me either. I bet shes a very nice person as I am myself. Like you, I will also say may the Light of God always shine upon her, and you too hilltop. Thank you for ur post my friend. Love and best wishes julie x
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Hi Insearch of truth, I was never a premie, but I was a follower of another guru (Sathya Sai Baba). Leaving was for me an extremely painful and difficult affair. I compiled a recovery page that was posted on the website of concerned former followers with which I am affiliated. http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/recovery.html I think that it would be good if you accepted the offer to contact an ex-premie to discuss matters. Andries
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Hello Andries, Ive just read your post and read that you didnt receive knowledge from Maharaji so naturally u are in no position to speak about your own experience where Maharaji and the practise or non practise of Knowledge is concerned. Have u ever met any people who have good experiences from practising Maharajis knowledge Andries? I know with Maharaji and the experience he has revealed to me that I dont have to be part of anything, so therefore the decision to leave or stay doesnt come into it at all. Maharaji revealed to me a knowledge within me, just me, I either practise or I dont and they are the choices! An xpremie will say dont practise while a premie will say practise...practise what? You may care to ask..? practise going beyond the concepts of how it should be and instead..just be What our friend (referred to as in search of truth) need is to talk about whats upsetting him or her to an understanding person who knows the difference in practising and not practising. It would become very upsetting and frustrating for a musician if they had a beautiful guitar, loved music and yet never picked up the instrument and played it! They could get so upset that the guitar could get picked up and smashed, just because they didnt practise and hear the beautiful music...what can happen then is they go blaming the guitar and not the one to blame..which would be themselves. Simple as that Andries. Our Friend could talk to a professional person to help with the issues they are experiencing right now. If you dont hsave a problem, dont worry you will get one, if you do have a problem dont worry it will go away...thats the nature of living in thids world...problems come and problems go. Continue to think posative! My Husband who passed away in Feb. was a great singer and song writer...One of his songs was called"Think Posative"> here are a few of the lyrics. If ur feeling down and low think posative, If ur feeling tired and weary, emotional and teary, Brighten up and Light ur life. Think Posative. Do take care Andries and love and best wishes to you from me Julie x
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Hello Julie, I do not doubt your good intentions, but I believe that an admonition to "think positive" without more explanation by you about how to do so, sounds like an unhelpful platitude. Could you please explain how to think positive? For example, do I or insearchoftruth have to repeat the mantra "Life will be allright" or something like that? Thanks in advance. Andries
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Hello Andries, Thank you for not doubting my good intentions! Let me explaine how to think posative! For example my Nephew has cancer in his blood at the moment and naturally his Mum is worried as would any Mother. As i have explained to her...she can worry herself sick thinking her child is going to die and thats negative thinking or she can do the opposite and think he will get better with the treatment he is getting! He started the treatment 2 yrs. ago and is doing well! My Sister is glad I have encouraged her to think posative and so is her Son. I believe in God and thats posative if i didnt that would be negative! Its all quite simple, its how a person thinks. problems come and go. Lots of saddness happens also lots of joy. posative thinking makes everything ok in the end and thats my point. I could think you are not a nice person if you didnt have the same views as me, that would be negative of me, or I could think you are a nice person even if your views a totally different than mine and thats posative thinking Andries. Do u get my drift? "Hope you do". When my Dad had a stroke and the hospital said he would die a few days later, my Mam was worried and I said she should think posative that he could recover regardless of what anyone said ,as God is good, now Andries to cut a long story short he did recover and lived for 5 and a half yrs after the stroke. The power of posative thinking is a wonderful thing and where the truth is concerned its all a matter of time before the truth shows itself. Thank you for your posts Andries. Do take care and lots of love to you and your Family. Julie x
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What a load of bollocks! I too have a friend who is dying of cancer, and thinking positive will not cure it. The circumstances are grim, and there's no getting around that. In fact, my friend has no time left for 'positive thinkers' - they just don't accept what is really happening, and don't help at all.
In another part of this thread, you say that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Well, that is bollocks too. Some people had the opinion that sending Jews, gays and gypsies to gas chambers would be a fine idea. That opinion needed challenging. There are people now who think blowing up anoher skyscraper would be good... People have no entitlement to have their opinions unchallenged.
Wishful thinking is what you do, and it really is unhelpful, especially given the subject that started this thread off. I would prefer it if you didn't post here any more.
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Hello 13, Im sorry to hear about your friend and im sorry you dont believe in posative thinking at a time like this for your friend. Its a timefor the person whos ill and posative thinking is so helpful at a time like that. My Niece passed away on the day of her 22nd Birthday also with cancer and that was also a very sad time for our Family. Posative thinking was very helpful to her during her illness. posative thinking was not to stop her dieing but to help her on her way to the next stage of her journey. I still say everyone is entitled to their opinion, like you are and so am I 13. Having a opinion doesnt indicate that the persons opinion is correct, but each is entitled to their opinion and thats my point 13.I do agree that opinions can be challenged ok,ur right there. You may prefer if I didnt post here anymore! I may prefer if you didnt use such appaling language to a Lady, but use it if u want my friend> You will be glad to know I dont mind wheather you post here or not 13 even if the way you see life and the way I see life is different, i have no objections. stay posative in the company of your Friend and I will say a special prayer. Love and Best wishes to you 13 Julie.
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Your nephew has cancer, your sister is worried sick, your Dad had a stroke and died, and your husband is dead and as he was a premie he probably wasn't even 60.
Julie, stop the posatave thinking before you kill all your relatives!
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Hello Ocker, My Husband was 54 and died suddenly the day after our 31st wedding anniversary! We had a good life together and have a lovely Daughter and 2 lovely Sons. Thats a lot to think posative for Ocker. They have their future and its great for them having a Mum who knows how to see the posativity in life. We all will die someday, and in the mean time im into seeing the bright side of life! Hope ypu are too Ocker. Ocker start the posative thinking and still everyone will pass away from this world someday my friend. Keep ur heart up my friend. Love and best wishes Julie x
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Julie it's unlikely that anyone could see the bright side of the road more than myself and not actually be run over by passing cars cause he was too busy admiring the light, the flowers, the sky, the tree by the wayside, etc.
However, you seem so wilfully ignorant, arrogant and just plain stupid that I can only explain your posts and your behaviour by assuming you are slightly mad. Ordinarily I would never and have never communicate(d) to anyone the way I have to you but I notice that you are crazy like a fox. That is you ignore difficult questions and steam on regardless with your posative blather and so I also assume you might be autistic in some form. Whichever it may be, I will request you be banned from this Forum if you haven't already been.
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Hi OckerI agree with your sentiments, but I think you are getting near the line with how you express them. Putting that aside, however, it is a genuine question whether Julie is too disruptive and too dismissive of this Forum and its aims to be allowed to continue posting. For myself, I think that question is on the line as well. This Forum is not a soapbox for someone to express their views, and not listen or deal with any feedback, particularly when those views are those of a committed premie. For me, the jury is out as they say. Your request is noted, but at this point toleration just wins the day I think. I am open to persuasion though. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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Thanks for the warning, Mike. To be honest I thought I'd crossed way over it but I was trying to see if she'd come real. If I was the moderator I would have deleted that post and some of my others to her and banned myself. As always you are far more merciful and tolerant than I am.
Modified by Ocker at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 16:42:09
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>Your nephew has cancer, your sister is worried sick, your Dad had a stroke and died, and your husband is dead and as he was a premie he probably wasn't even 60.
Julie, stop the posatave thinking before you kill all your relatives! Julie is probably the last person on this forum I would stand up for, but if exes are going to apply that kind of crass insensitivy, it goes way beyond the insensitivity of Julie's own posts on the current thread, IMO. I can at least believe Julie is well-meaning, however misguided. I'm not so sure about your motivations right now, Ocker. Much as I enjoy most of your forum posts, this one was a bit nasty and probably hurtful. Maybe you don't care? - I don't know, but I agree with Mike F. about 'close to the line'. Personally, if I were forum admin, I would have deleted it on sight.
Modified by Nigel at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 11:51:58
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Nigel, I thought ocker said this "tongue in cheek." But upon later inspection, I guess that wasn't so obvious. Still, I don't think that ocker meant to hurt Julie in that way..... Just bad subject matter with which to poke a joke.I could be wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Unfortunately I can't do accents or dialects even in writing. I can do a piss poor Yiddish but Julie is Irish so that wouldn't have worked. I'd love to be able to have written that line in Julie's sort of Irish but no way would I have used italics.
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I know we all have our spelling/typo issues, at times, but usually when we have been corrected, it stops.I mean, does she think that if she starts spelling "positive" correctly that her world will end? If she drops the italics that her meditation will go southward? I like italics, but only for quoting. Of course, I DO use capitalization for emphasis, so maybe I have little room to speak
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It does no harm to keep a dictionary beside the computer.
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Yes I agree. My motivations are partially outrage that she should post as she has been (and in italics as well) and partially testing to see if I can be so outrageous and insulting to actually get a real answer. I think I got a real answer from Cynthia - it is narcissism adn that could be me as well as Julie. Thank God I'm not on security at an "event" when she is around.
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I must have had my funny-bone activated. I thought you were joking. Man, now my opinion of you will have to take a plummet by about 10^-25. It will take you at least 5 - 10 usec to get that back where it belongs, ocker...... man..... I think your motives were sound..... the method needs a tweak, tho
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See how long that took? Next time it could even be longer Just kidding you, of course. Based upon what you said to Mike, I'd suspect you;ve beaten yourself up enough for all of us
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I think I got a real answer from Cynthia - it is narcissism and that could be me as well as Julie. Thank God I'm not on security at an "event" when she is around. You are not narcissistic. And to an extent, I found your remark funny, about killing off her family. I took that as a joke, albeit it was in bad taste. Sometimes those are the funniest. Julie doesn't have any sense of others around her and how she effects others. She's so self-absorbed that there's no place where she ends and others begin. No boundaries. A great example of that is that she's banned from programs. Julie has created a belief-system just about the "so-called volunteers," and her war with those who deny her what she wants, which I would imagine is to sit in the front row. She'd rather argue with the security premies than get into the hall. Even in the context of a cult, she doesn't know how to conform to socially acceptable behavior. She pretends to have social skills by spouting here "posative" sayings repeatedly, but again, Julie alters her behavior only to meet her own needs, and she probably thinks she comes off as sweet and nice, but she comes across to me as having some major thought distortion issues, that may or may not have to do with the cult. She will/can never be wrong about herself. I find Julie to be very aggressive, especially here. Not even passive-aggressive. She doesn't care about other people at all, only herself, and fulfilling her own needs. She's not someone I could be with in real life or befriend because she wants to control others, even though she has no real power to do that, and would deny it. To some extent, she has a great control over this forum right now because she likes the attention and it's been given to her. That's my morning psychobabble...
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 08:22:01
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Hello Cynthia, Do you feel you come across sweet and nice??? I dont know you, and you dont know me. What type of a person u are I dont know, what type of a person I am u dont know. Still I will give u the benefit of the doubt as ur judgement of me is totally incorrect Cynthia. Get to know me if u want Cynthia. Im not into critising you with what I THINK. Im mature and dont judge anyone. If I see a security Man show his anger towards another, i dont have to judge...I can see, and I object to that as a person who believes in justice. I like fairness.do u Cynthia? Bet you do. Do take care and dont be too quick to judge anyone, especially when you dont even know them. Thank you for ur mailing to me,and about me even though ur accuracy was out, way out! Take Care Cynthia and Love to you and ur Family. Julie x
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Im mature and dont judge anyone If you're mature, then how come you come across like a 16 year old or younger? And don't tell me you're "young at heart." That's a different thing. It's not immature to judge someone at all. That's a bullshit Prem Rawat cult concept. In fact, it's necessary to make judgments every day of the week, otherwise it would be awfully difficult to protect oneself from being taken advantage of, or to make decisions about one's life. It's normal human behavior to judge people, places and things. It's abnormal not to judge people. I think it's kind of funny that you're bouncing around this forum, writing all your sweet, syrupy, "non-judgmental" stuff when you are quite judgmental. Most of what you write is nonsense and satsangy stuff, calling people your friend, and signing off with "love, julie xxx" when the whole reason this forum exists is because we ex-premies have judged Maharaji very severely. Yes, Maharaji -- who is your Lord, leader, guru -- to be a fraud and we've done very hard emotional work to leave that cult. You walk all over that fact without regard for anyone's feelings here at all. I think you're quite aggressive, Julie. However, I believe that's the last characteristic you'd think of to describe yourself. But, that's how your posts come across to me and to others here, and if you actually comprehended what people write you to, then maybe you'd get a clue about how you come across. It's my opinion that all you really want out of this forum is to make sure sure that premies and especially Maharaji know you're posting here. I really don't care if you like me or not, Julie, or what you think of me, or if you want to give me the "benefit of your doubt." I don't need your approval, Julie, I'm just happy and fine the way I am. I live a very good life.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jun 28, 2006, 19:08:53
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Well said Cynthia, you express things so clearly and accurately, sacrificing neither control or truth.
It's wasted on Julie, for the moment, but not on us. Greatly appreciated and here for all to read and understand in time.
Lp
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Julie,
Here are some synonyms for your type of "advice:"Platitude, lip service, pretense, banal, cliché, inane, insipid, monotonous, old saw, rubber stamp, trite, trivial, vapid. Get the point? Blah, blah, blah! What you mean to say when you say "think positive" (although you insist on misspelling it despite attempts to correct you) is this: Pay no attention to negatives and they will just go away, like magic. In other words, stick your head in the sand like an ostrich and the lion won't eat you. Deargamadán, thou art, oh ostrich! Sorry Julie, we don't do that here. We prefer reality, thanks! If all you are going to do is "blah, blah, blah," why not find another forum for your efforts? It should be more than a little obvious that we prefer to engage one another here rather than sit around making pronouncements, dictates and platitudes. You don't want to "dis" your guru? Fine, you don't have to and you never did have to. That has never been a prerequisite for posting here that I am aware. Just be real and engage in REAL discussion. No more pablum!
Modified by NAR at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 13:12:01
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Julie,
Thanks for your reply. What form of positive thinking do you suggest to "Insearchoftruth" who seems very confused about Maharaji, Knowledge and is in pain because of this?
Thanks. Andries
Modified by Andries at Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 15:02:56
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Hello Andries, Insearchoftruth whos upset...how can he think posative u ask me..like this..first he can think his problems will go away. He says hes in searchoftruth and because he is, he will find it! Then his problems will go away in time.People say they are confused about Maharaji and Knowledge and this is the cause of their pain. If one knows the cause of their pain, then thats half the battle to recovery. People have received knowledge and naturally expected results from practising...then what happened is everyones story. I can see how some of the goings on around Maharaji from some of the so called volenteers could cause great upset and confusion. Im glad I never judged the practise of knowledge according to some of the people whom ive met who have the same knowledge as myself. Insearchoftruth will find what hes looking for.Its difficult to trust especially if you have given ur trust and that trust has been broken! I have experienced trusting people and being dissapointed when they broke that trust, so I do understand how people feel. I find the best person to trust is myself firstly. I have made many commitments in my life, practising knowledge being one of them and I intend to fullfill that commitment to myself, because I want to, and because I benefit from it. Im also commited to my job which I also benefit from. Sometimes people have other issues that are upsetting them and its important to share them, thats if the person can feel enough trust in a friend or professional. Thank you for ur post. Love and Best Wishes Julie x
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Julie, I think that your statement that Insearchoftruth will find the truth because he is looking for it simplistic. It is my impression that many sincere people who were looking for the truth end up following charlatans or self-deluded gurus. Here is what I wrote years ago about this subject. http://tinyurl.com/s6b5v Andries
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stop using ITALICS!!!!!! It is annoying!!!!! Italics are to QUOTE SOMEONE'S words I know you cannot help at this time your state of mind, nevertheless, but I also dislike your cheesy, cultic tones. Your ego gets larger when you say how good the lard is and you "understand" him? Why do you post here?
Modified by AXIS at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 12:31:27
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Hello Axis, My words are my own as I gather yours are your own also Axis.You asked me why I post here, well i guess its the same reason as you Dear. I have something to offer even if I dont think like you, nor am I any different to any of the other folks here. we were all born and we will all die, and in the mean time I as a human being have a lot to offer as a posative thinker. Im not here to judge you or anyone else according to what you and, they write...everyone is entitled to their own views and experiences. Dont you agree Andries. If I like the colour white and you like the colour green...are we different because of that? I dont mind if you prefer green, i still like white! Get my drift Pal? Once again I post here just like you because I like it and am interested in other human beings being happy and content just like I am. I also have all the emotions, like I cry, feel saddened, get hurt and am generally a very soft hearted person...guess thats why I did so well im my job when I worked in the psychiatric services for many years. Its so sad to see people suffering and I know I have the capability to help as I have done many times. Letter writing and talking to a person face to face is very different...isin't it Andries my Friend...you ae my friend surely????Im yours anyway cause I bet ur cool...I am! Lots of Love to you thats what I have to offer. Julie x
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guess you got your computer working again then
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 14:36:55
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Jees I wonder if she fixed it with the power of posatave thinking?
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Hi Julie and a big X to you too.Your so cool! Kisses To You always!
Modified by Hilltop at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 00:12:44
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Dear Julie, But what about the Graditude? I can only assume that you already made your pledge to him and are still paying for it. You really do make a difference and it is worth it! - Right?
Modified by Hilltop at Mon, Jun 26, 2006, 01:02:17
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Nothing electronic works if you remove the negative pole (lead). Well, guess what? Nothing else does, either!Plus and minus, positive and negative, good and bad, joy and sorrow, life and death are all polar opposites. It's called "balance." Get a clue, Julie. You don't get one without the other. To think otherwise is to live in the land of fairies and trolls...... oh, wait, those are polar opposites, too..... So what land are you living in, anyway? Even fairyland has opposites that must be acknowledged and dealt with.
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Hey Julie, was Prem Rawat actually the guy who showed you the 4 techniques of meditation? Was it him who squeezed your eyes the first time, who told you how to plug up your ears with your thumbs and told you to concentrate on your breath goingin up and down, in and out, up .. and to stick your tongue backwards up your throat without gagging?
All the rest of us had other Indian people who showed us. Who showed you?
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