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Thankyou David, a very nice post, I hope to hear more.
Lp
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Hi DavidI agree that M was an indifferent meditation teacher. I have an article about that on my site here. I agree with everything you say. Just one thing though... Meditation is a totally personal thing, a bit like sex or eating Yes, certainly how you meditate and what style (if any) you want to do is personal and up to you, of course. But just like you have sex and eat with other people (normally, let's have no jokes about having sex with yourself!), I think meditation is also a social activity. I don't mean you do it with other people (though of course you can), but I think for meditation to be worthwhile, it must help you to engage with the world and other people in a more loving and positive manner. For myself, meditation which only gives you a buzz on the cushion, or leads to deep cosmic insights, is valueless unless the buzz or the insights carry over into your daily work-a-day world and make a real difference for good. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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'For myself, meditation which only gives you a buzz on the cushion, or
leads to deep cosmic insights, is valueless unless the buzz or the
insights carry over into your daily work-a-day world and make a real
difference for good.'
That's the measure of it Mike. What is surprising is what little good came of our efforts as premies. I don't see any premies leading exemplary or inspiring lives. It never was a motivating factor, what benefit we could be to the rest of the world - it was just self-fulfilment in the narrowest meaning of that expression.
The only real benefit I can remember from meditation was gaining something close to a photographic memory for a couple of weeks after a samahdi experience. It was useful in revision, and it got me a degree despite spacing out all of my university coursework due to going off to programs all the time, and never having any money because of that. Mind, what I memorised for the exams didn't stick with me long - it would have been far more fruitful to have just done the coursework and exams in the usual style.
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and when it comes to buying the age-old advice is:
caveat emptor
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We unconditionally guarantee your satisfaction on all titles and products produced by Sounds True. If, for any reason, at any time, you are not satisfied with a purchase from our catalog or web site, simply return it for a full refund or exchange. For catalog items manufactured by other companies, we indicate the warranty period in the product description.
Related link: http://www.soundstrue.com/
Modified by Steve at Fri, Jun 23, 2006, 17:46:10
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Now I'm convinced! Meditation must be able to do all those miracles of health, happiness, holiness and horniness.
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I am sure that some of these techniques would have done the same trick, or possibly no techniques at all. I think any 'spiritual' experiences I had were the result of sitting very very still for a long time, and that's all. That doesn't sell well as a route to salvation though.
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Hi 13, salvation from what, mind asks...
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salvation from the thing under the stairs, the thing under the bed, that thing behind you that follows you everywhere, your shadow, anything that moves in an unexpected way... just how much salvation do you want anyway? Just a little to save the day? Special discount! You want to save your whole life? Has to be expensive, life being usually fatal.
Maybe we could rent salvation, rather than sell it, just for those odd scary moments...
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Instead of "exalted salvation" how about meditation giving you simple: - improved digestion
- relaxation
- increased energy
- lower blood pressure
- improved circulation
- peace and calm without drugs
- healing from emotional trauma
- increased energy levels
- reduced stress
- mental clarity
- a regular feeling of happiness
- an expanded state of awareness
- a quiet mind
- reduced fatigue
- heightened receptivity
- greater vitality and health
Modified by Steve at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 13:05:54
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That's all we need round here - a meditation salesman! LOL!
Improved digestion... last time most of us bought a meditation technique, we were buying into the Truth, the purpose of life, Knowledge of the Lord, the sacred methods handed down through generations of Perfect Masters - from Buddha and Krishna through Jesus to Guru Maharaji Ji. Well, that didn't work. So now you want us to meditate to improve our digestion. Ho ho. Parp - whoops, pardon me.
Modified by 13 at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 14:03:19
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Improve digestion? That has something to do with salivation not salvation. A dentist's understanding of Salivation: Know the tooth and the tooth shall set your fee! Kabir
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I believe it has something to do abdominal breathing, the diaphragm and the intestines. Yeah, it does take some effort to separate Maharaji from meditation - the baby and the bathwater and all that.
Modified by Steve at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 15:03:07
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Ok, get rid of Maharaji, and that leaves the meditation. Some people who post here have done it for 30 years, sometimes several hours a day. They could digest a brick without even burping.
After 30 years, the bathwater is pretty rotten, especially if it has had a baby in it all that time. Get rid of it!
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They could digest a brick without even burping. What? Dont follow you at all.
After 30 years, the bathwater is pretty rotten, especially if it has had a baby in it all that time. Get rid of it! Have you ever heard the expression, "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water." In this case the baby is the breath or meditation. The bathwater is all the B.S. (belief system) surrounding Maharaji.
Modified by Steve at Sat, Jun 24, 2006, 21:58:50
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Lighten up!
They could digest a brick without even burping.
Plainly said, I mean that many people who post here have probably done more hours of meditation than you have had hot dinners.
I don't believe it makes a much difference what kind of medation you do. Sure, there is an experience available when you meditate. Usually that experience is packaged into a belief system by the propagator of the method. We fell for the Lord of the Universe package. Now you are trying to sell us the same thing to improve our digestion and so on. Come on! We took the drug for the sake of 'self-realisation', 'expanding consciousness'. Now you are trying to sell us the same drug to cure acne. It's a joke!
I have heard of not throwing out the baby with the bath water. I was extending the metaphor. I was suggesting that some of us have had the same bathwater in there for 30 years ( the length of time some of us have been 'practising knowledge'). If there is still a baby in there after all that time, it will be dead and rotten, so in this case it would be a good idea to throw out the baby with the bath water ( apologies to any new parents! ).
You say:
'In this case the baby is the breath or meditation.'
Look up breath and meditation in the dictionary. Two separate things. I have given up meditation myself, but my breathing is fine thanks.
'The bathwater is all the B.S. (belief system) surrounding Maharaji.'
Your mixing of the terms breath and meditation suggests to me that there is some BS with what you are trying to promote here.
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Hi 13 and Steve, while I take no side in this debate: as a separate issue, I feel a sort of fresh innocence, by comparison to m's dark meditation club.
(That is assuming most of them do not demand high value psycho/socio/physiological aspects of the self in payment for a mild improvement physically or emotionally.)
Also, from an outsider's view I notice how free and open they seem to be in comparison to the offer m makes which changes, is clouded and obtuse.
As a total outsider, reading here I would wonder why we chose the least attractive option possible for studying meditation.
The tensions being "infatuated" with m causes in trying to do service, plays havoc with the mind and causes no good result, in the work done. This is not a good platform for achieving any peace through meditation.
But unfortunately, that's what happened, and we're left with a bad taste about all these things.. While I am neutral I have to admit to being able to see and sympathise with each of your views.
If we'd never heard of m this might be nice, but now it's a bit close to the old wound.
Lp
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 08:10:56
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If we'd never heard of m this might be nice, but now it's a bit close to the old wound. Hi LP, Sorry if my pushing meditation/yoga has inadvertently irritated your “wound.” I became an ex in 2002 and completely got over Maharaji about two years ago. So for me Maharaji is completely in the rear-view mirror - history. I guess we are all at different stages of exiting from his spell. There are, however, all kinds of scientific studies proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the benefits of meditation/yoga. I want exes to still benefit from the practice of "breath" without the hocus-pocus attached to it and as I said previously, to not "throw out the baby with the bathwater." I think I've exhausted the topic anyway and will stop posting about it.
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Hello Steve, how are you today? "well I hope"! Ive just read a post from you and want to complement you on your awareness of the benefits of Meditation. Well done Stevee Baby (Just an expression) im delighted you understand the benefits and naturally its from your own experience. Premies and XPremies can all benefit alike! Love and Best Wishes to you and your Family. Love Julie x
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Modified by Steve at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 13:26:31
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This, on this forum sounds like a confession, and I have pushed it away from being said. But the other day, I became honest with myself on a more physiological level. I found myself, watching my own body in a detached way.
I have fought off m by turning against meditation. For weeks now I have been noticing, becoming conscious of the fact that my breath is becoming more yogic again, involuntarily. I describe it this way, but you know what I mean. I have been cleansing my mind of the connection of these processes with m, and breath is returning to a level it used to be, before entanglement with him: steady, even, inspirational. When I am concentrating it becomes more this way: same for inspiration with posts etc... it just happens without concepts to induce it or to connect it to anything else.
Breathing is empowering, and it can be done with more or less power. I am becoming more convinced it is better to learn about your own, entirely by your self. All the valuable methods or ways I have found of deriving benefit, whatever the level of life application, from the breath, I have found by myself, within. All attempts to tell me some tips or tricks to achieve this or that for my body or mind by people (or teachers) have only caused me to lose my natural connection.
And in the case of maharaj ji, I can tell you Steve, you are very lucky. I cannot tell you how much shorter, your time scales, or how much simpler your exit sounds in comparison to some. I regard the fact that my breath is becoming more full by itself as I sit here, without consciously willing it or any thought of doing "holy name" to be a healthy sign. I am quite protective about it now and would resent someone telling me how to breath again having just started to feel the beginning of the natural and yogically rewarding relationship that I had before receiving knowledge 30+yrs. ago.
But apart from that, I have no judgement in the matter of its usefulness for other people. My story is exceptionally extreme.
Best wishes anyway Steve
Lp
Modified by LP at Sun, Jun 25, 2006, 16:04:24
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Just kidding 
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