Now here's a howdy-do
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Posted by: cq ® 05/16/2006, 14:41:52 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin

A contributor to the discussion about Wiki's article on Rawat (someone by the name of Sylviecyn) has recently expressed the following opinion of Elan Vital's defamation of its former followers as a supposed "hate-group": QUOTE: "... the accusation of ex-premies as a "hate-group" has been placed into the Hate Group article on Wikipedia, and is the only NRM that calls it's former followers a hate-group. It's a blatant singling out of ex-premies with that smear, and serves no purpose other than to defame ex-premies. For those readers here who are not Americans, you might not appreciate the gravity and impact of having such an accusation leveled at you. Nevertheless, it is a grave accusation and demands a fair response. Not to do so is unfair and unbalanced, also morally irresponsible because people's names are listed as such in the MacGregor affidavit". Sylviecyn 23:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC) ENDQUOTE My own question is this: So how come the likes of Scientology is listed in Wikipedia as a "hate-group", yet the same Wiki article quotes Elan Vital as labelling ex-premies as a hate-group? What kind of so-called "neutral point of view" allows such a contradiction? Wikipedia's article on 'Hate Groups' Related link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Prem_Rawat Modified by cq at Tue, May 16, 2006, 14:48:44

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I tried to get the reference to ex-premies removed Re: Now here's a howdy-do -- cq Top of thread Archive Posted by: JHB ® 05/16/2006, 15:18:24 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin I had a long argument last year on Wiki about this. The counter argument went that the Hate Group article wasn't saying that ex-premies were a hate group, but that EV had said they were a hate group, which is of course true. I argued that any organisation could call their opponents a hate group, and get their opponents listed in the hate group article. Although there was agreement among some Wiki editors with this view, neither they, nor I, had the will, the time, or the energy to pursue this to the bitter end of Wiki conflict resolution procedures. I have pretty much given up on Wiki, but for anyone who hasn't I think the strategy should be to discredit EV as a reputable source. Once that is done to the satisfaction of neutral editors, then a lot of the content of the Rawat articles can be removed, or at least heavily qualified as only being sourced from a discredited organisation. For instance, what is the source for Rawat's date of birth? John. Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: I am the culprit Re: I tried to get the reference to ex-premies removed -- JHB Top of thread Archive Posted by: Andries ® 05/16/2006, 16:06:19 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin I put it originally there without much thinking. But once it is there it seems almost impossible to get it away. Yes, the reputable source argument would work in this case now I think, but when I was editing then Wikipedia was not yet so strict on this. Elan Vital can always be used as a source about itself in the article Elan Vital, regardless whether it is a reputable source, according to Wikipedia rules. On the other hand, I would not worry so much about it. I tend to agree with Ocker on this: the hate group accusation is so over the top that most people will not accept it. Andries Modified by JHB-Admin at Tue, May 16, 2006, 18:32:07 Previous Recommend Current page Next Why would you have done something like that? Re: Re: I am the culprit -- Andries Top of thread Archive Posted by: Jim ® 05/16/2006, 16:11:41 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Previous Recommend Current page Next Easy for you to say, Andries... Re: Re: I am the culprit -- Andries Top of thread Archive Posted by: Cynthia ® 05/16/2006, 20:11:34 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin On the other hand, I would not worry so much about it. I tend to agree with Ocker on this: the hate group accusation is so over the top that most people will not accept it. Well that's easy for you to say.  Because you have a hobby called Wikipedia, and one day you weren't thinking, you put ex-premies in the hate-group article, and now you tell us not to worry?    Well, blow me down with a feather.  Next time you aren't thinking, don't write, don't edit, don't do anything.  Watch tv or take a nap.  And I'm not kidding.  Jossi must have loved that one. Previous Recommend Current page Next on the bright side ... Re: I tried to get the reference to ex-premies removed -- JHB Top of thread Archive Posted by: cq ® 05/17/2006, 06:38:51 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin At least the para in which ex-premies are mentioned is under the following description: The term "hate group" as a pejorative characterization slung against one's opponents has come to be used by a wide variety of people and groups Good point about the supposed 'reputability' of Elan Vital, John. If "their" collective judgement about exes is anything to go by, how much else is questionable, misleading, - downright deceptive in fact! Come to think of it, just WHOSE opinion is being expressed on the EV website? The trustees'? Rawat's? The premies'? Can't be Rawat's - he's not a leader. Can't be the premies - EV's not a group with a membership. Just who are these faceless purveyors of prejudice? We should be told! Previous Recommend Current page Next It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... Re: on the bright side ... -- cq Top of thread Archive Posted by: Cynthia ® 05/17/2006, 06:49:27 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin According to the "Past Teachings of Prem Rawat" article, now slated to be merged with "Divine Light Mission," this is a description of Elan Vital.  "Today, Elan Vital is managed by a skeleton crew which oversees particular practical aspects of Prem Rawat's non-profit work, while other volunteer non-profit organizations, such as The Prem Rawat Foundation help facilitate the broader aspects of Rawat's outreach to individuals worldwide." Related link: Past Teachings of Prem Rawat Modified by Cynthia at Wed, May 17, 2006, 06:50:08 Previous Recommend Current page Next ss ..s.. skelingtons? Re: It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive Posted by: LP ® 05/17/2006, 07:00:10 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Ah! the old, cold brown rice brigade re: meanings of words: there is a difference between hating and stopped loving. When we stopped loving, we didn't begin to hate. We have higher duties: to humanity; to truth; to love's integrity: to our sense of fair play and virtue: to successive generations, to education, to science; art. Yes: if I can even use the word without some of my scientific, disillusioned or spiritually traumatized colleagues wincing: a duty to (if there is such a being, now,) God. And duties to repair our souls (if you will), our own inner life. And to heal relationships with such fundamentals, as breathing, use of the mind and senses, reasoning power, discriminatory faculty, logical thinking, the body itself. No, we did not begin to hate when we stopped loving him. We merely began, slowly, to live again. Lion's Pit Modified by LP at Wed, May 17, 2006, 10:36:41 Previous Recommend Current page Next Elan Vital are still recruiting staff Re: It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive Posted by: T ® 05/17/2006, 07:31:40 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin As the following email I received from Elan Vital UK yesterday says: ________ Temporary Part-time Admin Assistant needed at Elan Vital's offices in Hove General background in administration with some experience of data entry required.  Full training given. 20 hours per week. This is an employed position.  Salary negotiable Please reply by Tuesday 23rd May to Ann Savell on fc or by email to annsavell@elanvital.org.uk">annsavell@elanvital.org.uk ___________ One thing this new Elan Vital database manager will need to become fully aware of is the UK data laws and the fact that Elan Vital continually breaches its obligations under those laws.  I have several times requested Elan Vital UK to remove me from their database and yet they continue to send me their spam. And another thing Elan Vital (you are reading this aren't you?), stop including web bugs in your emails to try and track who reads your emails and to trace their relevant IP details.  This so smacks of cultish behaviour. T Previous Recommend Current page Next It's a skeleton crew Re: It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive Posted by: Susan ® 05/17/2006, 22:32:37 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Quite a visual there....any cartoonists who can sketch and upload? Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: It's a skeleton crew Re: It's a skeleton crew -- Susan Top of thread Archive Posted by: LP ® 05/18/2006, 04:58:12 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin p'r'aps Flame Warrior artist dude  would consider another card,  if there isn't one already.. no can't see one.  Skeleton crew?  two almost skeletons, forgotten, at monitoring workstations,  one eye still watching, one mouse finger still refreshing, keyboard dusty and unused...  bowl of cold brown rice,.. pile of pencils and paper... Whatever. Modified by LP at Thu, May 18, 2006, 06:08:45 Previous Recommend Current page Next Here's one I cobbled together ... Pugwash of the Carribbean Re: It's a skeleton crew -- Susan Top of thread Archive Posted by: cq ® 05/18/2006, 13:09:11 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Uploaded file   Previous Recommend Current page Next Hey, that's not the mega-yacht, but still funny! (NT) Re: Here's one I cobbled together ... Pugwash of the Carribbean -- cq Top of thread Archive Posted by: Cynthia ® 05/18/2006, 17:30:52 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin Previous Recommend Current page Next Re: It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... Re: It's a skeleton crew, cq, didn't you know that?... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive Posted by: Kabir ® 05/18/2006, 20:40:00 Author Profile Alert Forum Admin I couldn't resist posting this poem: The Ballad of the Skeletons Allen Ginsberg Said the Presidential Skeleton I won't sign the bill Said the Speaker skeleton Yes you will Said the Representative Skeleton I object Said the Supreme Court skeleton Whaddya expect Said the Miltary skeleton Buy Star Bombs Said the Upperclass Skeleton Starve unmarried moms Said the Yahoo Skeleton Stop dirty art Said the Right Wing skeleton Forget about yr heart Said the Gnostic Skeleton The Human Form's divine Said the Moral Majority skeleton No it's not it's mine Said the Buddha Skeleton Compassion is wealth Said the Corporate skeleton It's bad for your health Said the Old Christ skeleton Care for the Poor Said the Son of God skeleton AIDS needs cure Said the Homophobe skeleton Gay folk suck Said the Heritage Policy skeleton Blacks're outa luck Said the Macho skeleton Women in their place Said the Fundamentalist skeleton Increase human race Said the Right-to-Life skeleton Foetus has a soul Said Pro Choice skeleton Shove it up your hole Said the Downsized skeleton Robots got my job Said the Tough-on-Crime skeleton Tear gas the mob Said the Governor skeleton Cut school lunch Said the Mayor skeleton Eat the budget crunch Said the Neo Conservative skeleton Homeless off the street! Said the Free Market skeleton Use 'em up for meat Said the Think Tank skeleton Free Market's the way Said the Saving & Loan skeleton Make the State pay Said the Chrysler skeleton Pay for you & me Said the Nuke Power skeleton & me & me & me Said the Ecologic skeleton Keep Skies blue Said the Multinational skeleton What's it worth to you? Said the NAFTA skeleton Get rich, Free Trade, Said the Maquiladora skeleton Sweat shops, low paid Said the rich GATT skeleton One world, high tech Said the Underclass skeleton Get it in the neck Said the World Bank skeleton Cut down your trees Said the I.M.F. skeleton Buy American cheese Said the Underdeveloped skeleton We want rice Said Developed Nations' skeleton Sell your bones for dice Said the Ayatollah skeleton Die writer die Said Joe Stalin's skeleton That's no lie Said the Middle Kingdom skeleton We swallowed Tibet Said the Dalai Lama skeleton Indigestion's whatcha get Said the World Chorus skeleton That's their fate Said the U.S.A. skeleton Gotta save Kuwait Said the Petrochemical skeleton Roar Bombers roar! Said the Psychedelic skeleton Smoke a dinosaur Said Nancy's skeleton Just say No Said the Rasta skeleton Blow Nancy Blow Said Demagogue skeleton Don't smoke Pot Said Alcoholic skeleton Let your liver rot Said the Junkie skeleton Can't we get a fix? Said the Big Brother skeleton Jail the dirty pricks Said the Mirror skeleton Hey good looking Said the Electric Chair skeleton Hey what's cooking? Said the Talkshow skeleton Fuck you in the face Said the Family Values skeleton My family values mace Said the NY Times skeleton That's not fit to print Said the CIA skeleton Cantcha take a hint? Said the Network skeleton Believe my lies Said the Advertising skeleton Don't get wise! Said the Media skeleton Believe you me Said the Couch-potato skeleton What me worry? Said the TV skeleton Eat sound bites Said the Newscast skeleton That's all Goodnight Previous Recommend Current page Next