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Stop right there....... go no further.....Ok, "I" will go no further...... sorry, I just had to... I Was driven by my obsession...... 
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Hi Falcon, The good points you make are clouded for me by your comments on supernatural energies, etc. >One reason gurus seem to glow is that they are absorbing the projections of everyone around them, feeding on the energy of the devotion, love and surrender coming their way. The guru sits on his throne (sometimes her throne) and accepts the adoration, money, attention, service, fealty of the people whose good karma it is to be able to kiss his feet. From there things get weird, usually.
By absorbing the life force of dozens, hundreds, or thousands of worshippers, Gurus can glow with supernatural vitality, and then when they look at someone, they can shock and thrill them with the power of their gaze. This kind of talk is very close to the pseudoscientific thinking of the cult members you are discussing. If by terms such as 'glowing' and 'supernatural vitality' you are just being figurative or ironic, you need to spell it out for those of us who once accepted all that for real. Please don't tell me you are being literal... Nige the literally done with all that.
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No more need be said Note: For those who don't know...... that wasn't a racist statement. Look up black-body and read about it.
Modified by NAR at Tue, Apr 04, 2006, 17:51:03
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Nigel, this is not written by me but by Lorin Roche. I just posted it to show another perspective, one that I agree with - to a point. The most charismatic, glowing person that I have ever met was Princess Diana. Why? because people adored her!!
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Radiation obviously. The use in English (and in other Latin influenced languages) of 'humans' 'radiating' or being 'radiant' long precedes the scientific definition of 'radiation'. The perception of people glowing or of having 'life force' or of transmiting or absorbing energy clearly has a history that predates scientific definition of the terms energy and force. That history does not of course mean that 'life force' or 'being radiant' has any scientific validity - but that IMO is not a basis to discount the human experiences that are described using what is now exclusively claimed as 'scientific language'. Science (IMO) has to learn to share terminology with poets, priests and madmen without scientists getting self righteous. Personally I think the quote The Falcon gave is just a neat bit of marketing - a meditation teacher knocking the opposition and upping his own 'product'. But the language used is 'meaningful' to large numbers of people, even if it is scientifically 'meaningless'. And I would rather see a discussion about the harm of guruism and non democratic didacticism, carried out in non scientifically validated language, than there be no discussion at all. I wonder if Marie Curie glowed in the dark ? Nik
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>Science (IMO) has to learn to share terminology with poets, priests and madmen without scientists getting self righteous. I don't see self-righteousness or ownership of English usage as issues here. I have no problem with sharing terminology - that's what I mean by (legitimate) figurative usage of words like 'energy', which is fine if that intention is clear. Language would be a dull business without metaphor and allusion, for sure. But when Falcon mentioned 'supernatural' it to looked like he was being a bit more than metaphorical. It's that fuzziness you often get in satsang between literal meanings and figurative ones that used to cause me all sorts of confusions - and which probably assists Rawat in playing his 'is he/isn't he divine?' game.
Modified by Nigel at Wed, Apr 05, 2006, 10:12:48
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Interesting .. then perhaps the ambiguity works to his advantage.. confuse and rule..
planer
Modified by LP at Wed, Apr 05, 2006, 12:54:50
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Right! an allergic reaction sets in towards all belief systems that cannot be substantiated beyond offering subtle rewards for belief. This includes, pretty much all of them..
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And it came to pass that in those which were yet to come; they (those knights which were banished and had reliquished their names) didst sleep under a spell. Each dreamed to be among all the others, yet each had long lost the memory of self.
Yet the memories and the stories of the deeds done and the deeds accomplished, the sayings said and the words honoured lived on.
They escaped in the smoke as it rose from their fires and didst intertwine like threads to weave a single garment in the upper air.
Words escaped over the crackling fires in the grates, where the huddled whispers gathered. They left the dreamers' lips unseen and joined them, the smoke and the stories of many people's times rose like clouds over the sun. And they, the innocent ones, who knew nothing of it, didst wonder at the lateness of spring and no tree dared show leaf...
They had, in anonimity, found each as if they were but one mind and did find there the same thoughts. Good thoughts. Formed in substance yet unnamed, whispers, mutterings from the mouths of dreamers grew into one clear voice, circling the sky, and it was known, the dark time would end unto them all.
When at last the light did break, they knew not the faces that had surrounded them in their dark sojourn, for much time had passed, and they had long forgotten their names.
One lifting a cold numb face from feeling-less arms looked blanklyupon a window that (as it seemed to him) had appeared miraculously, carved instantly throught the granite wall before him: full of morning light.
And it didst no longer as in ages past it had, when scenes changed, (nor take up half the room) but in miniature fairy like were scribed, etched, he could not words. Brave Noble Words that didst float
in a sort of
funny
pattern
going
down
the
screen
.............)
Modified by LP at Sun, Apr 09, 2006, 12:35:15
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re: (glowing aside)... all types know..let the audience give you energy ... accept it ... channel it back ..para. 2: This explains a lot. The more I think about it, the more levels I see where this applies.. in particular, for now, it explains the energy we experienced .. (those of us who had the misfortune to be made to sit on the Sad Song Chair). It also explains why that guy could never stop adjusting and readjusting the mic until he had the whole hall's enrapt and indivisible attention, not wetted by water nor burned by fire, nor tied up and thrown away in a somerfield bag ..most ancient and primordial ..like unto a shimmering mirage that floats across a landscape in springtime... Consciousness.. (hay .. remember jai Satchitand). Chit.. "Look leave it! I'll stand the mic back up," ...whole hauls' enwrapt attention! ..... refer this idea to all aspects of human behaviour, its not a spiritual phenomena.. more probably a physiological, instinctive, invisible interaction between gregarious creatures., like geese flying .."Leave it!" .. "Clockwise!".. More attention .. more energy.. the front goose gets all the attention .. extra maybe.. to compensate for the fact that the others are all surfing on his and each others' wing vortices...not to digress... "Look! I'd rather manage without the mic actually" ... well I had to come down somewhere, sometime.. not too bad a landing .. bumpy.. , but still in one piece... Where were we ..thats right.. once i was so skinny i used to drive 70 miles each way just to get to my vehicle and all they gave me was rice and squash .. when i got to the desert... all i could do was rest for the return trip somedays.. very skinny too... a premie from the premie kitchen in New York .. long arms.. made me up a huge bag of soya beans roasted and soaked in Tamari, recquisitioned a load of brazils from the housemother in L.A. ashram, mixed 'em up and said "Keep these in your car at all times" ... if you're out there ... you gave me the strength to leave .. cheers bro....ps. you never did tell me what do with this bag of nuts...
Hi everyone!.. I just got here.... long way round....
sadplanning
Modified by LP at Wed, Apr 05, 2006, 10:36:05
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