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that no thorn can prick.
What a loser.
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If he didn't have such a large windbag that continues to keep people trapped, I wouldn't continue to post his crud here. I think we all do a pretty good job of pricking his windbag here. You certainly do, Lesley.  Feb. 15th's entry on the inner cult blog: Prem Rawat: My nature wants to be fulfilled, and what do I do to fulfill it? My heart wants to be fulfilled, what do I do to fulfill it? "Each one of you thinks you are different - I agree with you, you are different. But only on the shell. Inside, in this heart, we are all the same. We have the same quest. We have the same wish. We have the same hope. We have learned to put it through differently, we have different languages, and we've got our different personalities, and we've got our different ideas, and we've got our different concepts, but that's just the shell. That's the shell outside. Crack it. If you dare. Can you crack it?" Me: Just what does Prem Rawat think he's doing here by telling people that their selves, their very identities are shells that need to be cracked? This is such abusive talk. He has the audacity to come out and actually say this, strongly implying that premies are shallow beings, and that their personalities(!) and emotional lives are worthless but for his crude advice. Worse, he prefaces this bit of Rawatian pop psychology with a first-person example of himself, as if he isn't plagued by his own "shell" of alchoholism, abusiveness, marital infidelity and materialistic greed. He thinks he knows himself well enough to set himself forth as the ultimate expert, spewing his strange philosophy upon others and be rewarded for it by being adored and showered with presents The ultimate narcissist. "That tiny little baby chicken is inside this shell. The very shell that has protected it. The very shell that has isolated it from elements that may have been harmful. But when the time comes to emerge, that little baby chick starts to take little pieces and peck at that shell. We, too, are like that little chicken inside our shell. Emerge. Go beyond that. "Emerge into this beautiful reality, emerge into this beautiful feeling that is within you. Emerge into this world of joy. Beyond the ideas. In that simplicity, be ready to accept. Be ready to understand. Be ready to dance with that." Me: It's interesting how many ways Rawat has found to say that the world is bad and Knowledge is good. He plugs away at reinforcing premies' belief they are still babies and and he is their Father. It's kind of a perverted infanticide of people's minds and hearts to keep them in the vulnerable state of childhood, while pounding away at their personal defense systems. If they even have any defense against him anymore. And, of course, this is for the old-timers: using the words "concept" and "dance." Yet, I still have a modicum of hope for the true-believers. I was once among the ranks.
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 09:47:21
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An excellent critique, very clearly perceived. Sometimes I want to say so much; I'm speechless.
Thankyou for helping me out of my blank amazement at his stupid, self serving rhetoric. The guy's an idiot! How could anyone think he ever had anything profound to say.
How can one emerge (out) into a reality with(in)? What a pea brain! He's making it up as he goes along.
Modified by Lp at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 10:16:50
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Great minds think alike, LP. I thought the exact same thing about his use of emerge into.
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Nice to know I am in the company of those who know the difference between within: inside and without: outside.
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oh blimey. that isn't just stupid, it's a direly bad idea.
We can expose him for the windbag he is, but unfortunately that does not deflate said windbag.
It is the false promise of prickability (reward being a two-way conversation with god) that keeps so many well intentioned people playing his game.
Does that make sense?
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The thought that we might be able to get up close and personal with god, must have been a persuasive idea.
Too late P.A.M.'s find out that it's impossible to get close to Maharaji.
Later still they find out they wouldn't want to, but by then he has other holds over them.
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Talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing - or in his case hindu businessman capering around in his Krishna pants hoping we can't smell the load in them. 
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Yes I can almost hear him modulating down to that 'earnest sincere' tone for the last part. And the words themselves? True spontaneous illuminations of the deep deep beauty that so surely lies at the core of our human souls…? or ..a pre-rehearsed couplet contrived with all the usual elephantine finesse of the divine poet. Who does he think he is with his ‘Let me tell you about …’ ? But sadly the response in many of the faithful will be genuine ..sincerity certainly but utterly contaminated with ‘Rawat’ flavour. A real teacher would, of course, fade kindly and gently into a mentor and leave nothing but the faintest of impressions. But unfortunately yes ..he keeps that 'ultimate lover' amd his own image ambiguously semi-merged. That is his game. It is a quantum admixture. Measure it as one and it only turn into the other best Tim
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It's when I read his verbal vomit like this that I nearly despair of ever getting my husband free from the evil clutches of that person. It's excruciatingly painful. He will say anything to massage the premies feel-good muscles and egos enough to keep his cash and adoration rolling in. How can otherwise intelligent people not see how used and abused they are by that person?
I couldn't belong to a "hate group"! "Hate" isn't near strong enough a word to describe what I feel about this life-sucking pond scum.
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Worse than pond scum. At least algae fix carbon dioxide and thus help to lessen global warming. Kabir
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You're right about the pond scum. Maybe the sludge at the bottom of the pond?
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the sludge in the bottom of the cesspit.
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I thought of that........thanks for saying it!
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How can otherwise intelligent people not see how used and abused they are by that person? If you know anything about battered-spouse syndrome, then you'll understand how intelligent people can be abused and not be aware of it, how they will deny it, and stay. Becoming trapped in a cult isn't based upon anyone's level of intelligence. It's based on emotional vulnerability. Your husband has been under the influence of Maharaji's spell for a long, long time. If you haven't yet read the book, Captive Minds, Captive Hearts, I highly recommend you read that book because the authors Janja Lalich and Madeline Tobias go into great detail about the parallels of cult involvement and abusive relationships. It might help you to gain a better understanding of how coercive persuasion and learned helplessness works, hence why people stay in those relationships. It doesn't matter that your husband doesn't really have a relationship with Rawat himself, because he believes he has a relationship with Rawat. The very idea of leaving Maharaji behind most likely is so terrifying to him that he can't allow that thought to enter his mind because the double bind is that he has also been taught to never doubt or question the master and that he is completely dependent upon Rawat for his love (the quote I posted above) and that he will become destroyed from the inside out if he ever leaves Maharaji. This isn't stuff for the faint of heart and mind, PS. I believe that learning as much as possible about a problem and its mechanics only helps me to solve it better. It's okay to be angry with Rawat about what he's done and continues to do, but your husband also invests himself in Rawat's religion voluntarily on some level. I think the book will help you understand how that inter- or co-dependency works. Arm yourself with real knowledge and information. That's what all the cult experts recommend to family of cult members. I don't have any other advice or answers for you because only you can know your relationship and how, or even if you can proceed to try to get your husband out of the cult. Besides, it isn't appropriate for me or anyone to give advice about someone else's marriage. But, again, try to put aside your rage aside if you can, and if you can, roll up your sleeves and learn about this belief-system if you think your marriage is worth saving. Maybe your husband's most vulnerable spot concerning his continued cult involvement is you. Be well, Cynthia
Related link: Amazon: Captive Minds...
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 09:12:17
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Thanks for your reply Cynthia. Most of it, I prefer to reply to by e-mail. Premie_Spouse at yahoo.com
I have read several books, by Margaret Thaler Singer and Steven Hassan. Captive Minds, Captive Hearts is actually next on my list. As with that book and all others speaking about cults, I am sure I will hear that "Maharaji is different. It's not a cult", so where does one go after that? I have read and learned a tremendous amount about cults in general and this one in particular. But, how many times can I hear, "That's not the way it is." Maharaji's not like that." "Those people just want to hurt Maharaji." and so on?
I don't live in a state of rage, but sometimes that is all I have to protect me from this insanity. Nothing works at all. These is virtually no way to communicate about rawat. Facts certainly don't work, gentle humor is sacrilegious, talking intelligently and honestly is not an option. An ocassional rage, kept to myself or vented with people I trust is sometimes all I can do. (I know what a bad idea keeping it to myself is!)
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I always enjoy reading your posts! Please keep writing them!
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Hi Premie Spouse, Thanks for sticking around and continuing to post here.It's so good for me to hear you tell it like it is from a rational ,untainted by the just-before-knowlege "solemn oath" point of view ! Yes,Cynthia's was a great post. Thank goodness everyone sticks around, 'cos although I don't always feel up to posting I read what I can.It has been an important part of my education and cleansing from the insidious,cunningly disguised poison that is the Rawat philosophy which is encompassed by Rawat worship. I spent over thirty premie years in various states of depression, despair and confusion.So f*****g "surrendered" that I was dangerously vulnerable to any abusive situation/person. Getting myself into difficulties in everyday situations (work ,relationships,money,living situations ) through suppressing my natural good-sense and assertiveness .Naturally I blamed myself for my troubles;thinking I had not trusted enough in the Lord's grace bla bla I remember having at least 50,000 drips at the beginning of the journey .....my brain was a constant whirlwind of painful sadness and bewilderment.....but the natural rage of doubt becomes too debilitating to go through day after day and in the end I lay down (metaphorically) and gave up.There is nothing more unnatural and dangerous than handing over ones very identity to another. I still experienced nice, healthy, gloopy drips from time to time.( One time,before I knew he drank I was quite sure he was incoherent with slurred speech on a video.Another time I was aware of (IMO) inappropriate behaviour by an initiator. I realised a lot of what Rawat said was boring nonsense but the denial in me was so strong,the demands for money seemed to become more and more stark ,the "bliss" that was so apparent in the early days had gone.Nothing ever made any kind of sense etc etc ), Why didn't I leave ? Well all the usual reasons discussed on this forum ( fear,rotting vegatables,suddenly having a fatal accident,being eternally bound to the cycle of birth and death etc  ....perhaps the main one was seeing no reason to leave,I had no idea that I had an "alien's" (as in Sigourney Weaver) black,slimey tentacles coiled around my psyche ,secreting ugly misinformation and calling it "love".I denied and ignored the constant background hum of frustration and unhappiness in my life or else put it down to my own inadequacy as a devotee. A premie inadvertantly finally released me from the decades of bondage (thanks Mary Marchant ) by asking,when I was manifestly unhappy, if I had been reading the ex-premie forum !!!! ( no doubt she thought it was the cause of my sadness) HA HA ! I had never heard of ex-premies but was shamefully curious. "Don't look at it" Mary said " They say nasty things about Maharaj Ji". I was baffled....what "nasty things" could they possibly say about His Perfectness ? I determined "to look at it" ASAP. It was another year before I was on-line. Thankyou Mike Finch and EPO !! The "divorce" is difficult and painful after such a long dependency but I feel reborn. I don't really know what to say re your hubbie Premie Spouse. When I was a premie it was hard to imagine that I would be happier without it,after all Rawat spends his whole time lying that it's the key to contentment . Actually it's a cold ,claustrophobic prison that stifles ones creativity,freedom of thought and spontaneity; with or without the undoubted feeling of loving calm that can sometimes be the result of those meditation tecs that were never his anyway. warm thooughts to you. Lexy .
Modified by lexy at Sat, Feb 17, 2007, 07:50:35
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P-S, It's perfectly okay with me if you want to rage about Rawat here on the forum. If people can't vent here, well...this is the place to get that kind of feeling out safely. Please feel free to email me at sylviecyn@yahoo.com">sylviecyn@yahoo.com. Anytime, and please don't be shy. Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Feb 17, 2007, 07:58:03
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What would you do in that case ?
I know it's a very painful decision, but you could consider his involvement this way: he's been deceiveing you for years now ......... Are you going to accept this for the rest of your life ?
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J-M,PS's partner was a devotee of Rawat's for many years before he met PS, so clearly something was lacking in his relationship with Rawat to make him want a relationship with a real person. Maybe he does know that he needs someone who will really be there for him, but the problem is that he clings to the unsatisfactory imaginary relationship. I hope one day he realises he needs to make a choice, and that he chooses well. Of course, PS is also free to make a choice, but clearly she is not ready to make the harsh choice you appear to recommend. All the best, PS! John.
Modified by JHB at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 17:45:15
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Thanks, John. No, I'm not ready to make that harsh choice yet. I guess my hope is to help my husband realize that he did choose to marry me when he had rawat already, and maybe even realize why. I think that is probably the crux of it right there, but until I read your post, I hadn't realized it. Thanks for writing that. It really helps.
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You make a good point there John. As Rawat was already in the picture it could even be like he loves PS but his mind is so rotted with Rawatianism he can't love properly. And doesn't know it.
After the stroke when my mum was really cut to the winds the one thing she could not be fooled about was her daughter. Even when my father took an album of family pictures in it including a pic of another woman as her daughter she thought he was joking and insisted I was hers.
I was her anchor. Prior to the stroke she had kept insisting that he had no reason to deny her her daughter and as I was polite and amenable he didn't really have much choice, if he wanted to keep her cooperation, but to bare his teeth (grin) and bear it.
Of course this was doing my head in! Who wants to be the meat in the middle of such a relationship. Let alone when it is your parents.
She would in the preceding years say to me over and again to relate to her as an individual rather than a duo which I was happy to do - ah talk about cheese to bait a trap.
Piece by piece I refused my father. I would not let him talk in a demeaning way of his wife in front of me. I would not let him pour his vitriol over anybody. And finally when he gripped my wrist in passing (stand still, don't move, defer all to me) I pulled free. Shocked the heck out of him, nothing he could do tho except grin and bear it, plenty of people there. It was one of those moments.
Bad man. Towards the end of her incarceration she wasn't just a husk, he could make her do his bidding in ways he had never been able to before. One day I answered the phone and she was on the other end and though the words died in her throat she was attempting to tell me she didn't want to see me again.
Yesterday I could hear her all the way in the back as I was on the phone to my brother calling out that she would pay my airfare to come visit.
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Hey John !
I would never recommend to do this.
Let's put it another way. Being involved with someone who's involved with another person is a difficult situation - and that may last forever.
When PS met her partner, she wasn't aware of the situation. Now she is. I don't think that many premies are fully satisfied with their imaginary relationship either. I assume most of them have that sort of difficult situation with their partner, even if he/she is a also a premie.
That's so common of a situation, even when you're not involved in a cult !
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I know, Jean-Michel. But it's an imaginary love affair.
And I'm real. And as John says below, my husband did choose me. Sometimes, I admit, I have bitterly wondered why!
Are you going to accept this for the rest of your life ?
I ask myself that every day. I don't know, but for now, I'm still working to get him away. It's as if he suffered any form of addiction or delusion (this seems to be both). I'd do everything I could to help him. At some point, if it doesn't work, no doubt I will say, "that's it". But, I'm not there yet.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.
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What we call here an 'imaginary relationship' looks very real when you're involved (was for me when I was into it).
(That's why it's extremely difficult to get out of it, and that's why it's called a cult)
That's why I'm underlining this.
I know my remark is something harsh and hard to hear, I'm really sorry, believe me !!
I was a bit like him too, believe me !!
And I've met quite some premies in that sort of situation !!
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If it were another woman, faced with the choice he might be able to pick well. But it isn't so even if it is eviscerating him he can only pick Rawat.
I reckon it's a matter of strengthening his awareness of what he actually has to rely on, like Lexy said, talking to the non premie. Because I agree with you JM in all you say.
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I hope you're keeping some space for yourself away from it all, I so wish I'd gone out with mates on the piss and just had a regular good laugh at the madness of the whole cult environment.
Was certainly the mistake I made, I just exploded at the end of my marriage because I was keeping it all in, and felt I couldn't talk to anyone about it, it wasn't a pretty sight, and I didn't behave very well.
And the more my frustration evolved the more defensive about Rawat she became in the period leading up to the finish.
Love eh, and the price we pay 
Modified by hamzen at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 13:10:05
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I had more or less the same experience as Hamzen - just ended up focussing my rage against the shithead on my X. But life has been much better since I walked away, and my relationship with X has even improved. You're the only one who knows whether your marriage is worth living as a sorry second to a malignant toad, but I think Hamzen's right - you won't find out without putting some distance between you and your husband's cult obsession. You deserve better. I hope you take it. Best, Fiona
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I did much as you guys, suddenly poured out all my frustration toward the guru, asked her to choose. She did in fact choose me, but later her premie friends told her she had made a big mistake and she left.
I've regretted the way I handled it, ever since.
Good luck PS and much admiration.
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Thanks to all of you. I keep reminding myself not to explode. "I won't explode, I won't explode, I won't explode".. (at least not this minute!)
What is harder for me to remember is to keep something for myself. Just take time and do something. I think I have mistakenly believed that I couldn't or shouldn't do that. I have no idea why. Ancient upbringing, possibly. It's hard for "ladies" from my era and geographical background to adjust to going out without their husband. (I know, I know. It's 2007. I'm trying to get there, really.) I'll start small and meet a friend for coffee.
Again, thanks for your replies and reminders and support. If it weren't for the forum and people here, I'd have gone under a long time ago and either joined the cult just to avoid any more unpleasantness or left my husband. You are great people here.
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I feel moved to write a few words of support. Your situation is a very lonely one since part of the nature of the 'bliss' of Knowledge is in being different and being seen to be special. I must explain further cos thats not quite what I mean. The notion of 'inside' is sometimes made tangible by being in contrast to the outside - communities who bind themselves around a common intangible (be it Allah or 'this feeling' or Jesus) often feel strengthened when amongst crowds of tangibles.. But for Premies, lacking any community except communion with M, even the presence of another premie is a something to be reacted to. They are sensitive isolationists who cannot easily accept the influence of other people, unless they remind them of the safe place 'within'. They are not open to a pov unless licensed by M. It is the nature of the meditation which creates this isolationist bubble... and M has almost no work to do to imprint his face upon it. Prolonged contact with Maharaji is as great a threat to the bliss of Knowledge as any other person, but because he keeps his distance and flirts and serenades them, and because he is beyond criticism, he is admitted into that space. I have a hunch that that 'inner space' is extremely vulnerable to anyone who treats it as Maharaji treats it... and that if you were to fall in love with an intangible inner version of yourself you'd find you had a lot more in common with husband than you have now. The techniques of 'going within' are powerful methods of self hypnosis.. and the more neutrally they are presented, the harder it is to identify and remove their isolationist influence. As a tribe we ex-premies have strengthened and re-built connections with the world which M has broken in a whispering campaign ...'you dont really need them... there is nothing for you out there') For our emotional body to be withdrawn from the world and withheld is a form of passive-aggressive power play. Im taking my ball home and Im going to fascinate myself by seeing just how smug I can get. Why risk losing your ball by kicking it to somebody else?? Take it home and nurture it. Keep it clean. NB: JHB.... can we have a website with some plinky plonky music and some quotes like: Happiness is a clean football ? Sorry Im waffling now. I'll sit down.
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Ive been thinking more about not only how disconnected from each other premies become, but actually how disconnected from their own feelings. Giving yourself to another, hurling yourself at the lotus feet is an act of lemming-like psychological suicide. My feelings, my anger, my pain, my love.. the things which mattered to me as a child were swept aside by a new-found snobbery of self-invention. Premies are famously more interested in cleaning m's cars than their own. Its classic displacement, consolidated by peer pressure and low self esteem... 'I'm with HIM!' Thats why they are happy for M to have the best stuff, cos they can kid themselves into thinking he is their friend, the mansion owning pilot.. forget the LOTU stuff, the insidious danger is that Rawat ends up like some strange wish-fulfilment porn. When the residence door shuts in their face, or he drives past them in his BMW on the way to the airport where his Gulf Stream awaits, theres a vague masochistic shivver than passes through them. The best they can do is work their way slowly up the social ladder until they too are basked in reflected glory. being close to M is an expensive game....look the part, act the part. How much does it take to earn Maharajis respect? Well its an isolating, obsessive game that they wont win, cos Daddy isnt interested in his army of gimps. The more they feed his ego, the more he despises them... the more they need him, the more he has to correct them. Thats his power, taking wide-open people and quietly, gently, and (for their own best interests) remind them of what they are missing. Identify it? Well he cant... except in abstract terms... love, 'that feeling', happiness, life. Theres always room for a bit more happiness.. and so all he does is hints and whispers is lead em on... always reminding them that the Master who has given them so much must have even more to give them. Like a donkey working a well, they go round and round, turning the gratitude into hard currency, compounding their lack of confidence in 'the World', cementing their isolation with a bond to the 'only friend they ever had', the man who promises them eternity... and urges them on. Thats the game see. He is a one trick pony. And all the bliss of events and Knowledge and slow motion darshans which feel so nice wont do you any good at all until you walk away and start to get them all into a bigger context and a healthier, more psychological perspective. The longer you leave any form of critical understanding and thinking out of the realm of feeling, the harder it is to ever be challenged. Premies hide behind the sanctity of their feelings, but its a cowards way. Thats why they cannot engage in debate, because the moment you start to examine the structure which supports prem rawat (not just financial, but the psychologic one) the 'trust' evaporates.... and without trust theres nothing there. Just a load of eggs in one basket. There are other places to learn those techniques. There are other ways to play the same game. He is not special, or even unusual. In fact, he is a rather bad player in an uneven contest between the needy and the manipulative. Roll on !
Modified by loaf at Sat, Feb 17, 2007, 09:49:03
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How do you see things so clearly and write them down with such pin point accuracy?
I'm envious.
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I enjoy the different styles on this forum. Loaf is clear, always to the point and insightful. Pat D. is dry ,slightly cryptic and funny. Aunt Bea's posts (too rare these days) warm and amusing. Nik is informative and factual. Cynthia, wise,experienced , carefully researched and thought through. Jim unforgivingly cuts straight through all the c***.A dose of that can be restorative Mike politely and gently tells it like it is/was. and so on and so forth........ You LP have a naturally poetic style and are a story-teller who invites the reader,with great openness, to share a part of your history.I love that too.
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You should add your own name to the list :
Lexy is honest, spontaneous, & fluently witty.
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Interesting that David Lovejoy can't find any faults in Maharaji.
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By leaving the lotus feet and reclaiming my past I have sometimes thought about the eighteen year old "me" before I turned nineteen and came across premies. I suppose I was a fairly typical teenager of that time (early seventies), just starting to explore the freedom of not having to go to school, not having to wear a uniform (experimenting with fashion ),having relationships, smoking a bit of pot and very excited to be about to start at university ( which I reluctantly gave up after being persuaded by the first premie who "satsanged" me that my place was serving the LOTU).....just as I was discovering freedom and adulthood and mostly having a good time, I met that blasted premie. During the years I was a premie,when I spoke of that time I followed the party line until I believed it myself , saying that I had been "lost","getting into drugs" and that an awful fate would have befallen me had I not received knowledge and become a devotee. However,now I'm an ex,and inspired by posts I have read here, I see it differently. Maybe my future would have been awful.....but maybe not......maybe ,without the malign influence of the false belief system, I would have simply grown-up and left my insecurities behind.I used to think that ,even if everything else about DLM was fairly ghastly,at least (having come from a totally dysfunctional family) I learnt about "love".............and I still think in some ways I did......but.......actually....remembering "me" as I was....I was quite a sensitive and loving person anyway.......nowhere near perfect but not at all bad. Now I find I am finding the essence of that person that I was ,again.........'though now ,obviously older,wiser and more knowledgable and experienced. Anyhow...my idea was for you to talk to your husband about his PRE- Rawat days. He may come up with all the "lost" standard reply stuff (but actually he was just young ).....but he may also remember the good things about himself,the dreams he had that he has never realised yet (being distracted ),the path he was on then and where it might have led......he may be able to see that he was able to function quite effectively then, lordless as he was ....and can do again. just an idea...possibly crazy. Lexy.
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In fact I have spent the day with my non premie friend, who over the years has heard my whole story several times over.
And this is a more articulate form of the realisation that came up today and dominated our conversation, though you phrase it more clearly.
I too feel as if I am finding the essence of that person I once was before all this happened to me, only now stronger, clearer and with many experiences to draw upon.
My first search upon leaving school was to live a life which gave me a subject worth writing about and poetry. I could not have dreamed of a script like this.
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Modified by lexy at Sat, Feb 17, 2007, 15:03:56
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Thought I'd say hello and thanks, for your tangible support and insight.
I'm completely blank at the moment but I'm going to type anyway. Not wanting to keep on coming back to the same old subject but I miss that hand made beragon. It was really organic and a tad assymetrical. I mean propped up there, it doesn't matter: wall, cushions, and to be honest (I've tried) none of these is comfortable. I've told young people who lie on two revolving chairs and tilt the screen down 30% hugging the keyboard. The only comfortable way is to sit up straight so if your sitting comfortable then I'll begin to drift.
With you, you remember, I said we sat, and drifted off with his words, and in the cupboard we will remember them.
It's not hard. Headphones, Imagination.
Sitting, low sensory stimulation, drifting, drifting, on my body beragon and if I don't have a tape or a disc, I have my memory program.
The aim was to an achieve an endless program in the head that never stopped. I've heard it sometimes: sometimes it had my voice. I've dreamt about it. One of my best dreams was (not the one where Steve Abrams hands me a starry sky wizard cape that makes me invisible, nothing can top that) a dream where I am giving satsang and every word is so cosmic and it's just the endless truth streaming out of my mouth...........ahh!
If I had this dream now I would wake up screaming, you would be the first to know: yet: once in days of unrequitted devotion I dreamed such a thing; and woke as if thrice blessed. I've forgotten the other two.
I mean hypnosis. I keep harping on about it, but you were one of the few who responded. It is an ugly word. Not on it's own: but associated with a group who will spit nails, to prevent it from being called a cult: hypnosis is all they need.
Or to be more precise de-hypnosis. the anti-thesis.
But how is this to be achieved? You can't go up to a hypnotised person who is sitting on the table and eating their food off the chair, and tell them that they've got it the wrong way round, no matter how many times you explain it to them.
What will dehypnotise them? In future years when humanity has grown a little older and wiser, they might have laws, and someone like this imperfect master would be forced by law, to produce under expert supervision, words chosen specifically, after much research and intelligent selection; and the perpetrator would be made to do time in a recording studio saying with his own voice: all the carefully crafted spells to undo all the wrong things they have been made to believe by his voice, in error.
Sets of CDs would be produced. Clinics specifically set up for specific de-hypnoses, they would be, for a while homes from homes. Gardens, where healing, awaking, remembering the actual nature of things can take place.
And until this group of widely varied and qualified experts have satisfactorily written all the undoing spells, and he has made all the packs of anti-DVDs: he will not have served his time. And all paid for out of his ill gotten gains and surplus property. But it will be a long time before the law will reach that far. Besides where would we find such a group of experts in such a field?
We are looking here for an antidote. and in that sense anti is not so bad a prefix. We need anti-satsang. We are not anti-premie, or even in that sense, anti-Rawat. Time is anti-rawat. The time before and the time after. Only the tiny space between is he. We are looking for anti-drifting, anti-comfort, propped-up zone listening, anti-rawat-voice.
Waking.
Oh is that the time?
Saph.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 18, 2007, 15:43:11
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Programmed to respond to a voice which now had become internalised, with it's balloon of catch phrases, we need to internalise some pointy phrases to burst the balloon.
I could only manage subsituting his names with "the fat kid" to start with, whenever I spoke about him, but it worked for me.
Unfortunately I externalised them also, which alienated everyone I knew and some I loved, which created internalised trauma, delaying progress.
Premies cannot understand why we use "insulting" phrases to describe him. Not only does it clearly demark the still programmed from the escapee making a dash for freedom; but these are essential tools for dismantling the program.
One of my first bonus surprises was, how good it felt every time I said it, and realised I was becoming quite adept at substituting "the fat kid" each time the words "guru Maharaji" came up in conversation; without flinching or hesitation.
We need to do a 'find and replace' in the program and substitute names or phrases of our own choosing, sufficiently sharp to burst the balloon. The longer it has gone on, the thicker the skin of the balloon becomes, and the pointier the replacement names have to be. And, unfortunately, the more difficult it becomes.
One of the things I love most about my friends here is the rich variety of debunking expressions they have at hand to describe this fallacious fool.
Again, and again I have to thank a spanish friend who's acquaintance seemed only to last long enough to teach me the art of being able to replace terms loaded with respect and endearment with ones of deflation.
The still programmed fail to see the earnest nobility in these sincere workmen and women with their good and powerful toolboxes of delusion bursting tools, but instead, only see an insulting group of world peace preventers: a picayune band of naysayers.
Unfortunately for them it doesn't work the other way round, because we don't have an internalised program. It only serves to make the skin of their baloney thicker, and to give us some amusement.
It must be frustrating: even infuriating; but we mustn't feel any remorse, it is our duty to our selves and others.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 18, 2007, 22:21:15
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'Programmed to respond to a voice which now had become internalised, with it's balloon of catch phrases, we need to internalise some pointy phrases to burst the balloon'. a voice which justifies its relentless intrusion by telling us that .'we need to be reminded again and again' best Tim
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How do you even comment on something so idiotic? Love is not just a feeling, nor does anybody build a temple in your heart. Now THAT is just stupid. I don't think Prem Rawat has ever experienced true love because I think he's incapable of any kind of equal, loving relationship with anybody. Plus, you have to ask yourself, how the fuck does he know anything about this subject? What makes him an authority?
Modified by Joe at Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 17:22:23
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