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Knock, knock, .."Mornin'".. and the postman hands me Peace is Possible by Andrea Cagan.. and it's still warm!!
And still I can't even get Amazon to let me complain that "The God Delusion" has not arrived: help!.
Anyone else got their P.I.P.?
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 05:11:19
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Do I have to read this? I suppose, if I wish to comment, I must. One thing: Jess Harper would have approved of letting them draw first...... Now where's my Mustang? The gauntlet is thrown. (A Spitfire Mk.IX would do.)... 
Err..., after a quick glance better make that an F 15 or so...  But seriously this is going to be a read I'd rather forget. In fact, better call a posse.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 08:21:01
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in the spirit of and to the tune of:
words mightier than sword
pens more powerful than planes
All good clean fun and no one gets hurt.
Except any predators upon world youth and possibly their ghost writers, of course.
Saph. |who is arrogant, and has a big spiritual ego and started his own following and turned many people off and never really acknowledged Maharaji as his teacher or master (Thanks for clearing my name) and spent much more time indulging with hippies than spreading knowledge ... (I wish, oh) ... "and don't forget".. (like a Kwigybo) ... "a quick temper." (to be said in Marge's voice.)|
But also, at a cursory glance, some gross inaccuracies and usual errors of omission, but I'll deal with those later in a larger work.
Andrea Cagan and I have never even met.
Boy; has she started off on the wrong foot with me.
btw.. The chapter on our arrival in India is called
"Invasion from the West." LOL
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 13:43:26
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"Because man wants peace, if it is not found in
one place, he will search in another and another
and another. But where is this peace?
This peace lies in your own heart.
But people don't know.
Maharaji, age 13. Delhi, India, Nov. 8th, 1971."
Now Andrea Cagan has a record that needs setting straight.
Thanks for the kick start m'am, better than a truck battery and a new set of glow plugs for my landy 90: now where's that pen. Yeehaah!
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 16:30:21
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Isn't that quote a classic piece of god goo. What the heck is he talkng about!
He was giving a krishna inspired speech about reclaiming the territories your mind had stolen from you one day and rather than just sitting there thinking something along the lines of oh dear my fault again, I started thinking it was a good idea. (oh dear)
And it was in that attempt of reclamation that I realised just how much at war I was with myself and that it had to stop.
Perhaps we should start calling him Mr. P. 'destroyer of peace' Rawat. it sounds too grand though, what an idiot!
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Yes, who says people don't know. Who is he, a little kid, to come and tell billions of people, whom he had never, and could never meet, that they don't know that peace lies in their hearts.
Where else has peace ever been felt? And our hearts are private places. No one else sees the peace in our hearts if or when it is felt. But I probably sat through that one, without seeing the audacity in his reasoning.
Once that hypnotised state, (and I still do not understand how it is done completely) is in place. Everything we see and hear, particularly from his lips, was, without question, seen as further proof of his lordship over us, and affirmation of all we had already taken on board.
"Of course he know we don't know. He knows us better than we know ourselves. He created us didn't he?" Well actually.. NO!
I guess it reaches the point where he lies within: inside their own hearts even.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 07:04:20
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is that you "turned many people off" -- I only wish I could say the same thing!!! lol
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My copy hasn't arrived yet so I am not sure if you are quoting from the book or not. Are you posting a quote from the book with your own comments?
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Can't you tell from the voice? I've made it clearer now, cheers.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 16:43:50
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Well at least you merit a mention mate ....albeit singled out only as a petty hindrance in the master's great progress. Does anyone actually get singled out for special thanks btw? Glenn, Peter Lee, Dawson, Valerio etc. etc. or even Mishler, Doner or Dettmers? ..or is it 'Trotskey'd' ..Or is it mainly a 'My Way' saga? Rawat's remarkable foresight, leadership and inspiration making it all happen ....brave but necessary decisions along the way but the sure hand on the tiller ...steering the ship safely home...and, against all odds and opposition, determinedly just keeping on keeping on and continuing to do his remarkable work. A selfless servant of humanity making sure that 'the possibility of peace' is still there for all humanity. His father's flame still kept alight. If so then all I can say is bad luck that 'The God Delusion' didn't arrive. It is a fine book. ! Ha ..the Kwigybo. Last night's Simpsons. very good best Tim
Modified by tommo at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 15:32:09
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I haven't done much but dive into relevant parts from the index, but I find no mention of Mishler's radio interview.
"By the August of 1976, Bob had severed his ties with Maharaji and had become hostile, at times making bitter statements about him."
(Hmm June '76 Maharaji nearly killed himself in a little rubber boat by himself - grabbed a rope - boat accelerated off, throwing him in and circled him like a closing shark. He grabbed the boat - went round in circles - got stitches in his foot from the propeller.)
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 08:15:38
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Page 265, or 256 I think - there's a drug dealer, and Australian unemployed surfer.. and so on. Six or eight of us ex's, that 's the impression I got ( I don't have the book any longer, Saph took it back home with him ).
Modified by 13 at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 16:03:17
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No need to frown, John. If "motley mob of misfits" were a true statement, Cagan, Rawat, et al, would be able to get away with using real names in that book. Calling it a book is a far stretch, too. It's a vanity press piece. It would be beautiful if it were possible to follow the money on that PIP book: Andrea Cagan is hired ($$) to write Rawat's biography, and it's published by a premie in Pennsylvania who suddenly owns a publishing house ($$) that has never published anything else before. Where'd the money come from to accomplish this???? Now that I think of it, Prem Rawat does use some real names on the Elan Vital website in the faq section. Some people's names are mentioned in MacGregor's affidavit/recant/apology where he dumps on all of the so-called "ex-premie" leaders (I'm not going to mention their names in this post) as being responsible for John's writing of the Good Weekend article, Blinded By the Light. The truth is that MacGregor never retracted one word of that article nor did the newspapers in which it was printed. Hmmm...
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 16:38:08
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"...there were bound to be a few among them, who for reasons of their own, would make him a target of their antagonism.
And so in 1997, a handful of disgruntled former students, disappointed not to have received the preferential treatment they had hoped for, joined up on the internet with a few radical extremists.
Together they launched a Web site from which they started defaming Maharaji on a regular basis, Since the internet was not regulated, and since most of them were posting anonymously, they could write whatever they wanted without fear of legal consequences. Misinformation, slander, and outright fabrications were all permissible, and they had no hesitation engaging in these practices....
Much of the original impetus for the detractors' web site had come from a lawyer from Vancouver, Canada, who made his living defending arsonists and murderers. ....
The group soon recruited a garbage collector from Australia, who later did prison time for illegal weapons and drug sales, and a notorious cyberhacker ....
And then there was an unemployed surfer found liable by the Supreme Court of Queensland, Australia, for theft of private credit and financial data, and a San Francisco lawyer.....
This motley group of misfits was determined to put an end to Maharaji's work, as they started flooding the search engines with thousands of messages defaming him. Over time, their slandering developed into an all consuming obsession.... etc ...etc...."
Pg. 264 - 265
I don't remember remote mind reading being one of the powers imparted by this knowledge.
What gives them cart blanche to defame past students?
Could it be that the former students (sic.- read: lovers, devotees) have very valid reasons for wanting Maharaji to stop? Perhaps they don't want Maharaji and his organization to rip off any more people or ruin any more lives.
What makes the Maharaji missionaries the experts on what we are thinking?
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 18:41:02
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"Mataji, who believed that Brian's knowledge of the English language would be an asset in spreading Maharaji's message, gave him the name Param Saphlanand (Joy of Completeness), and from then on Brian became known as Saph. However Saph kept seeing himself more as a channel for some universal truth than as a mahatma of the young master and had no interest in relinquishing his hippie way of life."
Pg 116
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 18:46:44
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"A flamboyant figure on the London psychedelic scene, Brian viewed himself as a mystic poet, a sadhu (holy man), and a seeker who was well versed in the life of Krishna."
Pg 107
And their description of how I found Ron Geaves, Sandy Collier, Milky Cole and David Beales is accurate, being almost word for word my own account submitted nearly two decades ago.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 18:51:01
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Saph (L.P./Brian) said: "And their description of how I found Ron Geaves, Sandy Collier, Milky Cole and David Beales is accurate, being almost word for word my own account submitted nearly two decades ago." So has Ms Cagan been given a whole bunch of source material written by others ( eg.Saph) to rehash and re-order ? Grrrr...... Are the usual ( yawn) innaccurate E.V. Faqs style comments about ex-premies printed in order to mislead premies or to anger the "rotting vegetables" ? If it pisses you off Saph, I hope you do use that feeling as a spur to chronicle the whole truth in your own inimitable way. I,too am a bit miffed that after all my surrender ,service,suffering,sacrifice and bending over to kiss the little white feet, I'm just one of the rabble, never to be remembered or even acknowledged 
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"No matter where Maharaji was however, his message of peace would be met with discontent by certain individuals. In August of 1973, he was in a ceremony, receiving the key to the city of Detroit, when someone in the audience threw a whipped-cream pie in his face. the man hit his mark, but in his usual gracious fashion, Maharaji wiped off his face and continued with the ceremony. Afterward, a councilwoman gave him an official salute and a key to the city for his peace efforts all over the world. She ended her talk with a profuse apology for the pie incident.
Maharaji immediately accepted the apology by saying, "Love is the major thing between us all. I want to apologize to the person who threw that pie at me, because he might have been hurt by somebody, or maybe they tried to arrest him.
I do not want him arrested, and I do not want him hurt, because if somebody doesn't understand something, you cannot blame him for that."
That's it?
Pat Halley is a better man by far than Maharaji will ever be, no matter how many times he gets to try.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 16:33:39
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Hey, they left me out! I'm hurt! I'm offended! I demand my rights! They can't leave me out of a 'hate group' like that! I'll bring action! I'll sue!
Not even a line, LP, about somebody who is not a "former" or "ex" anything and who still thinks that rawat is a walking piece of crap?
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even when not trying they're offensive!
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Don't worry I think you are honorary expremie - entitled to wear old cult tie with crossed beragon and red-hot poker insignia. The secret handshakes, nods, winks, funny looks will open doors previously not open. Can you, as a matter of interest, spot the premie, expremie, non premie in a random sample of humanity? Best Z
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And do I get my own sheet to hide under so I can pretend I'm holier than everybody else?
And will somebody each me how to paste on that "I'm so blissed out look"?
A do I get my own magic secret decoder ring so I know all those cutsie premie sayings like "Jai Catshit A-hand" and stuff?
Oh, I'm so excited!
Modified by Premie_Spouse at Tue, Feb 13, 2007, 17:33:06
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Though unlikely that they would stop to ponder them.
I call it the shit fan. Some people just have this fan and they keep it permanently switched on and everything they produce gets sprayed around.
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Hi Lesley, you're right, it is
"unlikely that they would stop to ponder them."
Really, a premie cannot afford to stop for a moment. The only way, perhaps, (I tried and failed,) one can "leave no room for doubt in the mind" is to keep up a constant pro-maharaji inner dialogue to blank out any invasions of doubt.
Or perhaps there is a tiny record playing constantly at the core of waking intelligence in a true premie, (I'm only quessing):- all the songs of the darshan line, interspaced with frequent twamavas and artis, and squeeky voice overs: installed by meditating and falling asleep and listening all night long, for a month of sundays, until tiny, permanent grooves are made in the brain matter itself.
But I wouldn't know, as implied, I couldn't hold back the surging tsunami of doubts threatening to engulf little inner premie ji for long.
But with these questions, I'm still aghast:
Who is he: and who are they: to presume to tell the world of readers: with a sweep of the hand, what a number of individual and unique people whom they hardly, if at all, really knew: what they are thinking now and why they are thinking it? (But I said that already, more or less.)
And where is A. Cagan. coming from, to just rephrase their judgements, or sign her name to them, almost word for word, and in her case, without knowing any one of us, even in the slightest?
Does she think we will just roll over, so she can scratch the other side?
But then, I suppose she will have been re-assured that we are very picayune.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 11:14:36
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I find it fairly amazing that the cult just can't step over its own shadow, and sticks like a pitbull to that same desperate and ill-informed strategy of ad hominem trashing of all criticism. It just shows how fear of the ex-sites drives them to irrationality.
Like all of their other recent efforts along this lines, it just makes them look suspicious to any half way awake reader.
Unless he is "perfect", there are going to be times in his life, like any other person, when Prem Rawat drew criticism and animosity from others for any number of reasons. To pretend that in his case that there is no legitimate criticism of him ever is to invite the reader to assume he is hiding something and to motivate that reader to actually investigate those sources.
Obviously the better strategy would have just been to ignore the ex-sites. If they really are just about a small group of wackos as they claim, to address them like that makes them look petty. Can you imagine a biography of Bill Gates going off about all the silly websites about him. In fact I remember an interview with Bill where he was asked about them – the ones that talk about how much money he makes and make all of these comparisons about it, like that if he bends down to pick up a 100 dollar bill, he is losing money because the earns more than 100 dollars in 10 seconds or whatever – anyway, the interviewer asked him straight up something like, "is it worthwhile for you to bend down and pick up a 100 dollar bill" and Bill just said "yes". That was it. Perfect honorable answer. He didn't have to go on about how the person who said that must be mentally disabled.
So in conclusion, there are cults and there are cults. Ours has become one of the dumbest on the planet. One thing we can really relax about is that they are always going to do a better job of chasing people away from them than we ever could.
I have one question though. What do others think about the people running the cult? Can it be possible that they actually believe their own hype that Prem Rawat might ever become a big movement or do they just do all this as a way of keeping things peetering along, picking up a few stragglers along the wayside to counterbalance the natural decline in membership?
Modified by aunt bea at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 18:07:18
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Between the quotes pgs. 264-265
It reads that Maharaji said to do nothing, that forgiveness is the appropriate response, and in the same breath, they go on the attack.
With regard to your question: I can't see any other explanation than that they still believe their spiritual salvation hangs in the balance that they continue to imagine Maharaji holds in his hand.
I love your line:-
"One thing we can really relax about is that they are always going to do a better job of chasing people away from them than we ever could."
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 18:45:14
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What do others think about the people running the cult?
I think they're lost souls, husked out emotional cripples, & moral degenerates. What they really believe I have no idea, I doubt they do themselves because they've never examined it, but their blind loyalty to the one time Boy God can't be doubted.
Scary people.
To pretend that in his case that there is no
legitimate criticism of him ever is to invite the reader to assume he
is hiding something and to motivate that reader to actually investigate
those sources.
I haven't read the book, but it looks as though this criticism is aimed at individuals who've posted on the various ex-premie forums down the years........cheap shot.
Is there any refutation of the EPO website, with its many pages of objective & well researched information about Prem Rawat, the historical background, the facts about his movement, Divine Light Mission in its heyday, & the sources of his present day wealth?
That's a rhetorical question of course. Anyone who takes the trouble to investigate will find that Rawat has tried but failed on more than one occasion to have that website shut down, using very expensive law firms to cook up spurious issues of copyright, when any genuinely aggrieved Perfect Master with a leg to stand on would simply have sued for libel.
Modified by PatD at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 19:36:40
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While the word premie has been replaced with student, it does not convey the meaning.
Nor, now that the singing and dancing is over, does it really mean the same as it used to: devotee: lover.
For example, to my experience now, a premie is a person who is mentally and psychologically incapable of hearing criticism of guru Maharaji, rather than a devotee.
This implies a much greater alteration of the human psyche than you would expect in "students".
And in light of the freedoms this permits the "master" it is to any sane eye a dangerous transformation of a person. How this numbing of discriminatory reason is supposed to resemble, by the farthest stretch of imagination a formula for world peace, is beyond me.
In his bumbling self confidence it is obvious that the "master" regards it as a formula for control and by extension, in his fantasy, world domination. But because of his ineptitude it is a formula for the continued domination, and resouce tapping of a few more, young, open minded, human beings.
These prospective victims could be barely children now but if they are curious, gullible, and already programmed to fear god by their own society, then he regards them as potentially having his name on them.
Many parts of his circus have dropped away but the brainwashing that is enforced to open wallets and purse strings and close eyes and ears to any thing but the propagated line of illogical, unreasonable lies, is still as tightly locked as ever.
"Happiness lies within you, and thus it is your treasure. You can take it, but you
don't have the key to it. Everybody has lost their keys. And the true
master has the key to all the safes."
1971 London
"There are people who think I am doing this work for money. That's not the reason. I do this because I get great happiness from it. I offer this knowledge to people free of charge, and then they feel happiness. That makes me happy too."
1972 Johannesburg
Not only does he, by no means offer it free of monetary charge. It is not offered without every effort to make mindless puppets out of people: blind, deaf and dumb to criticism of the "master", and hopelessly deluded into thinking they have received or can expect extraordinary spiritual favours.
Knowledge is offered in exchange for lifetime surrender to his will: exchange for the powers of reason and discrimination, for the freedom to think, to be fair minded, self motivated and for actual freedom itself; and as a by-product: in exchange for all the money this allows him to squeeze out of his "students" on an ongoing, repetitive basis.
Saph.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 23:18:30
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This is a major point in all of this. Well said LP (who I thought was signing-off never to return. This is not an obsession is it now?)
Rawat the Master is no more than a clean-up man for minds convinced they are in NPOV but actually have had fear and self-loss hard-wired into them as their default point.There are/were millions of us rendered thus brainless by our start in life. Its shooting fish in a barrel for any rapacious charismatic who cares to cash in. Yuck.
LP, I think your re-definition/update is spot on.
Premie:-A person who is mentally and psychologically incapable of hearing criticism of guru Maharaji-no more.
There isnt any more beause, as promised, the Master has removed it all! What else could a student be legitimated to be? Nothing, their experience is beyond compare, it has no context. So the Master is everythng, and all the rest is pure, open-ended relativism; skepticism even about your own self!
That's Perfect for the Master; the student replaces the sensation of being adrift in the cosmos with the certainty of being adrift in him! Great.
Premies, when are you going to attempt to be yourselves?
Love
Bryn
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Nice post, sorry about the going and coming back, there's a juggling act behind the scenes sometimes.
I see you have been absent for a while, so in case you missed it I am linking my reply to your kind message; Re: my anticipated leaving.
Thanks Bryn:
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 06:24:32
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It worked on me once, I spent several years under that impression, gained from premie rumours that it had been shut down already. So I didn't bother to look.
I tried a few times and couldn't find it (I'd spelt it wrong). Anyway the impression cost me another few years before, one day I found it, looking for information about another guru, (another matter of concern). I was much pleased to find it up and running and clearly in perfect health.
Modified by Lp at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 17:55:24
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The thing is, though, that I have not really defended that many arsonists over all. A handful -- and yes, they can be handfuls, each and every one -- but not a lot. Makes me worry, if the book's a little inaccurate this way, is it possibly inaccurate in others too? Mind you, this is the very same woman who wrote Grace Slick's (auto)biography, isn't it? God, this is so confusing. Hm.......
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They've all got it in fo' me.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 23:21:13
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It's clear Ms. Cagan's "research" was partly cribbed from the ever amusing One-Reality, and that she didn't bother checking her facts whatever. And, ooooh, how evil - Jim does his job, defending people who are innocent until proven guilty. Sure proof that you really are the anti-christ, just slavering at the chance to tear down this good and decent peace peddler, aka LOTU. Says a whole lot about Andrea Cagan... fluffy as dryer lint. Prem sure knows how to pick them.
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Cagan's already posting reviews of the book (which she's touting as a "best seller"). Here's an inadvertently truthful gem:"First, let me say that this is Cagan's best book ever. She has finally found a topic that has enough breadth for her prodigious writing skills. The book gives the word "biography" a new value." Indeed.
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When you tell truth upon truth, you still get the truth.
But when you tell lies upon lies you end up telling the truth.
But here, not the "truth" they intended.
Modified by Lp at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 18:10:00
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LP, Aunt Bea said so well that this is the dumbest cult in cult history. If your critics are such crippled, unreliable, deficient human beings and you're certain of their total lack of credibility, well then, don't mention them! I feel badly about how they do single you out but in a way, you can wear that like a badge of honor. Hey, they didn't even mention Jim Heller by name (lol)! I have consistently maintained that telling the truth is far better than lying or revising. All I have to say at the moment to Andrea Cagan is that she has just published a book that revises the truth and history of my life! She's got to be an idiot, an air head, a premie, money-publicity-hungry, or all of the above to write a book about Goomrodgie. Anyway, all of this reminds me of a book from which I posted excerpts on Forum 8 (that I cannot find in the archives). The book, Soul Snatchers: The Mechanics of Cults by Jean-Marie Abgrall is quite good and the author indeed examines cults from a mechanical standpoint. I think you'd like it and it's still available on Amazon -- I don't have it as I read a library copy. http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Snatchers-Mechanics-Jean-Marie-Abgrall/dp/189294104X Here's a copy of the file I still have on Word. I think is pertinent to this conversation. Here are more excerpts from the book Soul Snatchers: The Mechanics of Cults, by Jean-Marie Abgrall, that I found interesting and pertinent. These are from the Chapter titled "The Guru." I want to note that the author, when using the term "guru" is referring to all cult leaders of any kind. Manipulation fundamentally depends on fraud. How well it is done depends on the personality and cunning of the guru. Truth and Lies For a guru to be marketable, a past has to be invented for him that is interesting and greater than reality. The guru endeavors to make this magnificent history credible and to "sell" it to his disciples, with a degree of success that varies with the strength of their desire to believe, and which does not hold up for long under intense scrutiny. Little by little, even the guru falls into his own trap of lies. Over time, the guru loses sight of what was true and what was invented, and gradually takes on the character that he created, slipping into a state of confusion and madness. Biography of a Guru This can be highly significant, when one wishes to assess the authenticity of the teachings lavishly bestowed. There is no discrepancy between the real biography of a true Master of Thought and that which is known to his disciples, or to the general public. Conversely, the fake guru manufactures a legend connected to the history and the roots of the group. The stages of his life are completely rewritten. Thus, the account of an illusory mystical experience turns out to have been a real episode that was not exactly brilliant. A professional and social failure will be dissimulated behind a panolpy of titles and presitgious diplomas – every one of them invented – or a mystical quest around the world may hide a pitiful wandering. Almost invariably, there has been no breakthrough event in the individual [guru’s] development The Disguised Truth The taste for disguising the truth, for embellishing it, or for transfiguring it altogether, is no game but a vital necessity. Only the real and recognized value of the individual [guru] can make people forget the condemnable or petty elements of his life. However, the guru is only a poor individual, and setting out his true past in clear daylight would immediately throw discredit upon the person and his ideas. Thus, there is a vital obligation to observe absolute secrecy on the elements of reality likely to tarnish his image. Guru-Speak If a guru were content to construct the theories of his hysterical ravings for his own benefit, he would be nothing more than a kook. However, to exist as a guru, he has to convince his close relations and then increase his following through sparkling and attractive remarks. His speeches have to be a subtle balance of dubious reasoning (that may elicit hysterical laughter or a perplexed frown) and a proof, of supposedly irrefutable cogency, of his theories. The speech is based built on paralogical reasoning that starts from a clear and concrete proposal, it is then built up little by little, subtly distorted, and finally reaches an aberrant conclusion that would ordinarily be rejected. Most gurus use paralogical distortions, which go together with paranoia and magalomania. In every case…the guru puts all lies and evil on one side, and himself and his trusted partners, mirrors of truth and light, on the other. It is this dynamics of exclusion of the other, the outside, that gives the cult is aggressive and proselytizing dynamism. The biography of the guru has only one goal, to glorify his person as a figure of truth and justice in a fight against malefic powers. Copyright 2000
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 10:28:54
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This last line alone says it all:
The biography of the guru has only one goal, to glorify his person as a
figure of truth and justice in a fight against malefic powers.
It never ceases to amaze me how these people who are writing generally about a range of gurus, manage to identify those areas of anguish which I thought personal and unique to this one case. Maharaji always fits the description perfectly.
It also amazes me how premies who we made great efforts to help and support and to be their personal friend in so many cases, can for the guru's sake, just throw one's life in the garbage, along with home, career, loved ones etc. as if we were not even people.
I guess I never let go of true humanity as my personal goal.
Though I certainly made every effort to love Maharaji, and worshipped his feet thousands of times over, for many, many years, most of which were not seen by him or his honchos, having elected to be one of the ordinary crowd of devotees, I did not let him destroy the love that was already there in my heart for the common human being and the Human Race on Earth in general.
My greatest sufferings have been at the hands of his loyal followers, once I dared naysay him, with justified concern for the effects it has had on the personalities of many hundreds of human beings I have been able to closely observe over nearly 4 decades.
And all attacks from the mission and it followers were behind the back and below the belt. I now know them, without a shadow of doubt, to be cowardly and two faced, but I still realize that this is not their true nature, they are still my old friends as far as I am concerned. I mourn for the destructive and cruel effect this has had on their personalities, and I wonder now if it is not too late for them to repair.
It is for much of the damage they have done to me and those I love.
Saph.
Modified by Lp at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 03:45:06
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I guess they forgot to mention my libel suit to Ms. Cragan. I'll have to have a look and pass it along to my attorneys. These people aren't very bright, are they? No wonder the publisher is trying to remain anonymous. Won't last for long. Marianne
Modified by Marianne at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 20:15:28
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I can't imagine how pissed off you must be (I can actually) to have found yourself tangled up with cult central & their lies & defamations, a quarter of a century after having waved bye bye to the Lord of the Universe.
And why? Just because you had the balls to post under your real name at a time when thanks to the internet all the hidden crap about him was bubbling to the surface.
Rawat's panicked reaction to all that was to send in the goons, & boy did they do a number on quite a few contributors to the filling in of the jigsaw puzzle.
Not you though............& I'd have to mention Jim, Drek, JHB, Jean-Michel & others whom I'm not aware of, who've stood up to very serious intimidation & not blinked.
Well done
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"I can't imagine how pissed off you must be (I can actually) to have
found yourself tangled up with cult central & their lies &
defamations, a quarter of a century after having waved bye bye to the
Lord of the Universe."
And still you rode straight! 
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Thanks Pat and Lesley. I knew back when the Living Lord got pied in Detroit and Pat Halley almost got killed by Fakiranand that there was something wrong. And that instinct was confirmed by other incidents I experienced. Luckily I escaped early. Who knew that my heartfelt EPO journey about the life experiences that brought me to the cult - the very reasons I was accepted to receive k at the tender age of 16 - would then be used against me by manical cult members and the Satguru! The friendship, intelligence, and humanity I have found among the ex-premies has been a balm to the cult attacks. But the cults continuing insistence on attacking me just keeps me going. Why are they so frightened of someone who left so long ago and had such a tiny role in its existence? Those are facts which will help people looking for information about Rawat to make an informed decision about getting involved with him. Reading that there were only 8 new premies in Australia over the last year shows that Rawat's cult is taking its last gasps. Those fervent accolades the cult trumpets are meaningless because no recruits respond. Thanks to all who have been here over the years for making sure the public has a place to learn more about Rawat. Marianne
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I was actually getting ready to be a nun when I heard about Rawat. According to the press at the time, Rawat had forgiven the guy saying that he didn't know what he had done, and the impression that was given was that Rawat was Jesus come again -- and here he was saying "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." all over again. So of course it didn't make much sense to follow what Rawat called a "dead Master" when here he was - the living breathing Lord come again! In fact, they even had posters of him as "The Second Coming" all over the place when he came to Australia for his second visit! The whole idea was to convince people that he was Jesus Christ, come this time, not as the son but as the father!!!!!!
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Hi,
If you can remember those posters can you also remember one starring Mahatma Padarthanand and saying something like "I can show you God" or "I can reveal you God". I'm sure I once saw such a poster in Manly and thought to myself, that's a pretty astonishing claim, I really should look into that.
Unfortunately I later did.
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Padarthanand is another sleaze bag. One time he hugged me and had an erection under his dhoti (easy to notice)! He also did other things of a sexual nature, but I won't go into detail here. Needless to say that the mahatmas were not saints - they weren't even holy!
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He was quite an icon though in a way that belied his actuality - like the premies koala.
When I look back, I can see that probably like a lot of us, I just preferred to stay back a bit, something just instinctively stopped me from wanting to get close to Padarthanand so I just looked at the view from a distance and thought he looked cute and saintly and thought no more about it for many a year. I was the same with Rawat for most of the time I was a premie.
I think now I would be a difficult proposition to get to override that sort of instinct.
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When I first read it I assumed the figures were for the Brisbane Ipswich district only - but Channel 31 is a generic name for public TV in most Australian capital cities. If it was Brisbane only then there might have been as many as 30 new premies last year and that certainly is impressive
But the most pathetic of all the pathetic bits of information in that report was that there were 2 to 3 times more people watching the current daytimer scheduling rather than earlier the peak-time scheduling which probably means they could no longer afford the more expensive peak time rate and that their target group is daytime TV viewers - the old, the disabled and the out of work.
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