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That smug godlike sense of blind entitlement has to take top billing in the ugliness stakes - there out of an innate politeness you pause to listen to Rawat who promptly tells you he's the fount of all truth and you'll turn into a rotten vegetable if you stop listening to him!
The premie who told me about Knowledge was the nicest sort of person you could ever hope to meet - otherwise I wouldn't have been attracted in the first place.
An achilles heel for a trusting temperament  and one I'll gladly learn to live with. Indeed I am enjoying the journey now I've got the god goo out of my hair.
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When the master parrot is flying overhead, but it saddens me to think how easy it is for the completely innocent to still catch a headful.
"Just come along, it's an interesting evening, there'll be food and music, we could go on somewhere else afterwards."
Just one moment of open minded acceptance, something any one could have, and another person embarks upon an uncertain ride away from normal reality.
And what infuriates me is that the man and his mission deliberately target the younger age groups, and in such a way that the real agenda is well hidden beneath layer upon layer of intrigue, so that it has the most harmless wrapper.
Such an attractive and harmless proposition it seems, to relinquish control of one's life, to give away the gift only so recently received.
I know what you mean about starting to enjoy the journey though, I have the distinct impression that being an ex-premie is the only time it starts to get good.
But I would definitely only recommend non premiehood to the new generations. This is not a voyage to embark upon. And above all do not listen to the parrots or the sirens.
Modified by Lp at Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 15:44:19
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"biologically determined to develop autonomy"
I liked that line in a Sopranos script. A gift can only be as well received as it is given.
Real parrots are the most delightfully funny birds to watch about their ways though aren't they.
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Modified by Lp at Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 17:16:41
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'And what infuriates me is that the man and his mission deliberately target the younger age groups, and in such a way that the real agenda is well hidden beneath layer upon layer of intrigue, so that it has the most harmless wrapper'
Me too LP! And it is not just age group but I also so hate the fact that (to me) it appears to be virtue itself that creates the vulnerability. The open minded and trusting who, out of some human kindness, might first suspend disbelief and give him the benefit of the doubt. ..then add a touch of humilty, self-doubt and loyalty and they could be lifers. Cynical bastards needn’t apply…they are equipped to recognize Rawat for what he is immediately. Prem Rawat ! the least suitable focus imaginable for the gentle idealism, hopes and aspirations of the least materialistic people on the planet. ….unfortunately also the most likely to ‘trust’. He is in such utter contrast to his followers. The sheer chutzpah with which he plays the great Philanthropist. Bloody hell I might give £50 to Comic Relief in a couple of weeks time. But Rawat gets a press release even when other people give their money! This must be uncharted territory in the whole history of charitable work? Lenny Henry will doubtless ‘spear head’ the Comic Relief effort and raise far more in a day than Rawat has in years . but without, of course, seeking to take all the credit. It is all unbelievably bizarre ..do premies see any of it I wonder Best Tim
Modified by tommo at Thu, Feb 08, 2007, 18:42:04
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I'm not sure if this is still necessarily true as at least some of the lifers seem to have taken on the Speaker's cynicism. After all, none of them are complaining about Rawat's obvious PR bullshit about the UN or any of the "Rawat Invited to Speak At Oxford University" bullshit.
However as I have been reading a lot of old satsang recently (stuff I never saw back in the 70's) I've noticed that he never was in sync wth the premies who invariably were all about love and peace and non-materialism and Rawat and Raja Ji just went for their own limited vision full steam ahead. Give me luxury and beautiful women and booze and dope whereas the premies while obviously just as desirous of male-female love were looking for something more.
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Yes indeed good post. I would like to take it one step further. I see that he is out of sync with the whole world. Depending on which mountain top you are perched you might think the world needs certain things at this time. It would be a tiny dung heap you would be sitting on to think that the world needs a perfect master come part time humanitarian leader who has nothing genuine or original to contribute and who feeds off the creations and efforts of other. From my observations and from discussions with those in the inner most circles it is clear rawat is of the absolute opinion that he is in fact the perfect master of this time and that he should be treated with unwavering adulation and showered with infinite gifts. The troubles of mankind are less than secondary. I guess this is pretty easy for any one to see, you just got to look at what he has achieved after a life time of endless work…………… Peter
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you just got to look at what he has achieved after a life time of endless work…………… lol.
Devastating for those caught in his entrails who care. I have seen more than one premie trying to make an oasis get scrunched.
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Lesley, yes indeed, and another thing I find stunning is that still to this day, after thirty years or more, people are being treated like absolute dirt with no respect for them as intelligent human beings. From what I have head "der management" at Amaroo is still up to its old tricks of yelling and screaming at people. rawat may not offer peace but he does seem to offer a unique brand of a learning disorder....
Peter
Modified by peter jackson at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 22:45:22
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"but he does seem to offer a unique brand of a learning disorder...."
Great turn of phrase Peter. LOL
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 23:19:58
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and seriously endangered peace in our lifetimes when he took to wearing a cowboy hat at one time. Now that was a tragic image.
beautiful pic at the start of the thread, I went and read the story.
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he portrayed it as some endless engraving task, carving the same lines into premies heads.
I started picturing him like some Maori chieftain with a tin of woad, .. he wasn't looking too pretty there for a while.
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Replying to:
'what infuriates me is that the man and his mission deliberately target the younger age groups, and in such a way that the real agenda is well hidden beneath layer upon layer of intrigue, so that it has the most harmless wrapper'
Tommo said:
"It appears to be virtue itself that creates the vulnerability. The open minded and trusting who, out of some human kindness, might first suspend disbelief and give him the benefit of the doubt. ..then add a touch of humility, self-doubt and loyalty and they could be lifers. Cynical bastards needn’t apply…they are equipped to recognize Rawat for what he is immediately. "
That is at once the crux of my sadness and my anger, when I think of it. Rawat gathered up most of the nicest people I have ever known in my life, many with my assistance, and made them into something else.
Modified by Lp at Sat, Feb 10, 2007, 03:21:28
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A friend of mine used to say: "remember, you are special, as special as everybody else"
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Hi Joro.
Something along these lines was the basic theme of the key that enabled me to recognise the mistaken ideology behind the cult.
A firm belief in our equality supports the human race, a lack of it undermines our existence itself here on earth.
"Either we are all special or none of us is". I explained to premie after premie friend, thinking they could grasp the fundamental truth, behind this, thinking that there was in them, as I had always noted somewhere within myself, a seeker of truth.
For a moment they seemed to understand until their minds fell upon the thought of Maharaji, then doubt, antagonism, fear, and in some cases sudden explosive anger would well up in them.
Of course once they saw where I was going with it, that my whole drift was that Maharaji's work does not pass this test, they were gone.
Putting all others down except Maharaji is one of the standard satsang techniques. They could have swallowed my equal worth idea, if I had allowed an exception for him, such as:- "We are equals, but Maharaji is something else."
If I had let them say this and let it pass, they might still have been in my life, but I could not let it pass. I had to say that the only way I see of not fitting in to this simple requirement is downwards.
If you do not agree that we are fundamentally of equal worth and every life as totally precious as another, then whether you elevate another above the middle line or debase another to a position below it, your work is meaningless, and against the common good.
The only way a premie can embrace the idea of Maharaji having a kind of supremacy, is to turn their back on this basic principal. And this is to attack or deny the core of human values. I felt I must make a stand on the values I perceived, clearly premies do not feel that or do not perceive this principal of equality.
Or they were introduced, to soon, to the warped set of ideals and values which superceded all others. Something like "Only Maharaji is truly great", or "The only person you have to care about is Maharaji". Thoughts like these, directly or indirectly have all but destroyed my life.
Yet I still missed their company and knew no one else outside those spheres, that is, of course, until now, with ex-premies. Yet it still sometimes seems so tenuous: our tiny disgruntled band held together by threads: I can't make sense of my existence without other human beings, with whom I share this fundamental vision: a sense of the equal value of our lives.
No ideal, no fantasy, can be so great as to warrant overruling this. This is the first glaring flaw in the mission of Maharaji and all his followers and it is huge. There is no way around it except by taking on an assumed blindness and deafness: by denying something primal within.
Once, having examined and recognised this fatal flaw, the whole argument for Maharaji's work on earth falls about like a pack of cards.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 05:27:48
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I remember standing on a slope at Amaroo, I don't remember exactly why, but I was thinking about Charanand, don't know why exactly but I always believed he had those fundamentals right and I was thinking he must like it here.
Maybe it was around the time of an evening when the warmth of companionship around the fire was palpable and he leant in to warm himself and shared the sweetest smile.
Then he loosened up, I guess he must have been looking at a circle of smiles under the night sky lit rosy with the firelight - there was even a little singing.
But he was nowhere to be seen other than as a shadow in the wake once his largeship arrived.
And I don't think I noticed either of them at the lowest firepit in the land where naturally there was a number of the nicest sort of people you could possibly hope to meet under the same night sky.
Some people you don't forget because they didn't forget you.
And in all those absurdities, those titanic struggles for a bowl of porridge, we had a lot of fun striding the ranges of ol Amaroo and we listened to the secrets that we whispered from our souls.
Modified by lesley at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 07:49:29
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it would be Charan Anand. He and I were like brothers, and when his lumpship is not around he is a very human soul.
But as you say, once the holy hummer arrives, he's a trailer.
Give up the guru and he'd be welcome round my fire any day. But it ain't gunna happen.
The one thing I regretted when I heard about Amaroo, having already repastured myself, was not seeing the land itself.
Your descriptive writing, as always, paints a fine picture, made especially alluring to one who has watched it rain here, it seems for weeks: even when the whole of the rest of the country just had a couple of days of snow. At this time of the year in UK campfires seem a distant memory.
"Some people you don't forget because they didn't forget you."
If you can walk with kings, nor lose the common touch..
A worthy aspiration.
Saph.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 08:47:13
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actually he was guest speaker at one of the last local events I went to. He looked more like Phillip Ruddock explaining the children overboard incident than a mere shadow. Scary sight.
But I listened as he talked about the responsibility he had to 'Maharaji' for each person he had given knowledge to and I felt sorry for him. He sounded like he had received a pretty intense lecture on the subject. Actually I felt more than sorry, I winced and he looked over at me briefly.
Since exing I have reflected back to that sight. I've thought about it, decided that maybe he wasn't worth feeling sorry for after hearing a tale about him being coaxed out of a car and a girlfriend back into the fold some time in the eighties with a few home truths about how much charisma out of work indian gentlemen have in America.
So I guess that's the way I see it. The person who leant into the company of others for the warmth, inspired such a welcome and then responded so warmly is either a mirage of the moonlight or direly chained inside watching helplessly as his voice falls silent and his speech is taken over by (pick your favourite disintegrating politician defending the vile).
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I remember describing him once as the most buddha-like man I had ever met.
"direly chained inside" that says it.
He called me a couple of years back from a nearby premie house, and said as always:-
"....Maharaji's knowledge is spreading by leaps and bounds......"
He reminisced with so much love in his voice that my eyes welled up.
Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 16:05:21
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I went for a walk with him in the country once. We walked a long way, and then sat down to rest on a hillside. I pointed out a rare orchid in the grass beside him, and in a moment, he'd picked it. When I protested, he just laughed, and said the creator had the power to make plenty more of them if he wanted to.
I guess that's why it's OK for Rawat to be one of the most polluting individuals in the whole world, flying about in his jet. S'alright, the creator can take away the carbon dioxide if he wants.
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Modified by Lp at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 17:11:03
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these grow round here
dendrobium kingianum
Modified by lesley at Sun, Feb 11, 2007, 22:19:55
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I think you are right LP.
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He picked my rare orchid, I'll tell ya. He advised my premie boyfriend to coerce me into getting an abortion and move into the ashram and surrender my life to Maharaji. Marriage and family weren't acceptable, so I surrendered my baby's life on Mr. "gurucharanand's" sage advice, seeing he was in such a high and exalted position in Maharaji's world. That's a sad story, not that he picked some orchid in a forest -- how many lives and minds over 40+ years has he picked and assisted in destroying in Maharaji's name? Charanand isn't a nice or good man. He's a poser for the Rawat family and has been for most of this life. What has he ever accomplished in life other than to gain premies' sympathies for himself (because he's so pathetic) and win admiration for doing nothing other than decades of brainwashing people into becoming devotees of a megalomaniacal cult leader? I wish the worst he ever did was to pick a rare orchid in the forest somewhere in England.
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 06:02:04
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Modified by Lp at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 06:28:28
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Certainly not true of Rawat, maybe not even when he was a child, in fact I doubt it. Maybe true of Charanand.
Without a voice of his own, what a position. Caught between a lecture from a pompous brutish overweening idiot and the lecture woven out of each and every bruise felt inflicted.
One day I saw this man from Japan on the telly. He wanted to tell a story from his youth. Of how he had been sent to find women for an officers brothel.
He stood at the doorstep of a one room home with his two soldiers. The young woman had a baby in her arms and begged him to let her stay and look after it.
There is no easy way to say this and he spoke it as straight as he was standing. And with a movement of his arms demonstrated how he wrested the baby out of her arms and threw it towards the back of the room saying let the grandmother care for it (she caught the baby before it hit the wall).
That orchid and a little purply spiral one. We used to look for them to flower, thats when you know they're there.
Perhaps it is their rarity, there are never more than a few, but they bring a gentle woodland smile into the patterns of a grassy lawn.
Modified by lesley at Mon, Feb 12, 2007, 16:23:11
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that if he knew way back then what he knows now (relative to the time he was telling me this), that he would have lived his life a whole lot differently. I think he got sucked up into a cult too, and then didn't know what else he could do with his life, so stayed around to enjoy the benefits. At the time he told me this, he was addicted to golfing (during the Rejoice programs). He always needs to find something to occupy himself like a hobby because he knows all the rest is crap.
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I have long felt that Charanand's heart wasn't in it. He told me on the phone last year. "I just live to enjoy this life, we don't know anything else."
So what was all that, that just went by for the last few decades?
Perhaps he has made such a habit of satsang, he practically does it in his sleep.
In the mis 80's he seemed to be doing hs own thing a bit getting into tennis, of course he would go and pick Tim Galway as his teacher.
Modified by Lp at Mon, Feb 19, 2007, 05:23:59
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