A reason to celebrate
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Posted by:
tommo ®

11/14/2006, 19:00:16
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Just reflecting....A reason to celebrate….4 months on

 

What did knowledge bring?

 

I remember a video called ‘The Missing Piece’  …the thesis being that M and K supply the missing piece in the ‘jigsaw’ and complete the puzzle of life. ..

 

.but actually …M and K are just extra pieces that only create a further puzzle.  They don’t fit …..they don’t belong to ‘real’ life…but ‘he’ promises that they are somehow ‘key’.  This creates a conflict described as a ‘doubt’ with  its two mythical players, the ’heart’ (the steadfast devotee) and the ‘mind’ (is this really how it is supposed to be?).   An impossible  game never to be ‘won’.  ..but a path to endless self-doubt  rebounding into occasional ‘clarity’ and ecstatic gratitude …. only to validate further dependency and eventual self-doubt.

 

So, in ‘the world of knowledge’…inner conflict/ self doubt  =  ‘peace’, ignorance (of self)  = ‘Knowledge’ and dependency = ‘gratitude’

 

 

What did EPO bring?

 

 

‘Clarity’. 

 

Facts.  Crystal clarity that Rawat is a (witting or unwitting) fraud who heads up a personality cult.  

 

 

‘Freedom from (self)-doubt’. 

 

Could I have dedicated more?  Am I really an active premie?  Can I afford to provide more financial support (such a little thing in return for ‘that’ knowledge)?  Am I really doing the techniques ‘right’?   Should I prepare by listening to a  CD first?  Am I inspired enough to ‘represent’ him and thrust a DVD at my friends?  How can I explain ‘it’.. …well its not a religion, not a cult etc?  Do I need more ‘inspiration’?  Could I save up to go to Amaroo?  Should I go this year?  How do I book the days off from work?  etc…. and other such nonsense.  Thankfully now all utterly evaporated in the light of ‘truth’

 

 

‘Resolution of all those inconsistencies’

 

How come so many of the ‘non-premies’ I know are so obviously much brighter, kinder , wiser, more courageous, more charitable and more talented than I am…or, indeed, lets face it, premies in general?   Why on earth would anyone want to ‘become a premie’?   Why are there fewer and fewer premies?   What happened to ‘bringing peace to the world’?   Why is Prem Rawat so rich?  Why is he seeking public recognition in such obviously bogus ways?  Why do I rely on the judgement of a man who published some of the worst poetry ever written?  etc.. etc...

 

 

‘Charity’

 

A little money now redirected from a worthless cause to some worthwhile ones

 

 

‘Humility’

 

An end to that smug feeling of holding the inner ‘trump’ card on wisdom ‘about life’.  To truly know that ‘I do not know’ and therefore once again to really listen to my fellow human beings, to engage, to be appreciative and to be open to learning about ‘truth’.  A deepening of respect.

 

 

‘Peace’

 

An end to the inner conflict with its two imaginary players.  Personal re-integration and rediscovery of a  self-consistent philosophical position  for ‘all of me’.  In my case I enjoy science, astronomy,  history, poetry, literature and sport.    I love nature, feel beauty, companionship, kindness and love in my life. ….and I am deeply grateful to …I know not what  .. for this little time I have on  Earth.  But no more belief in ‘teachers’ past or present.  Just my own inner wish ..for no reason better than self-respect and integrity …to try to be kind and true to what seems most worthwhile in life.

 

 

So am I feeling happy and clear  (as I sit hear drinking tea listening to Delius)  ?  Yes.    

 

So really I just wanted to say (once again)…what a good and worthwhile job EPO has done and to say thanks to John. Mike et al for maintaining the EPO site and this forum.  Truth sets you free.

 

Best

Tim

 







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Excellent: thanks Tommo
Re: A reason to celebrate -- tommo Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Saph ®

11/14/2006, 23:49:18
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This forum, or, as it amounts  to, the collective of those who post here, is one of a kind to my view.

It comes closer than anything I have seen anywhere to a fair democratic process.

It strengthens and reaffirms the only faith that seems worth having.  Faith in human nature.

I am delighted with ex-premies!


Lp






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Re: Excellent: thanks Tommo
Re: Excellent: thanks Tommo -- Saph Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
tommo ®

11/15/2006, 18:30:27
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thanks LP

yeah me too.  thats all I was trying to say but it came out in rather too many words!

Tim







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Re: What a List
Re: A reason to celebrate -- tommo Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

11/15/2006, 14:25:34
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"Could I have dedicated more?  Am I really an active premie?  Can I afford to provide more financial support (such a little thing in return for ‘that’ knowledge)?  Am I really doing the techniques ‘right’?   Should I prepare by listening to a  CD first?  Am I inspired enough to ‘represent’ him and thrust a DVD at my friends?  How can I explain ‘it’.. …well its not a religion, not a cult etc?  Do I need more ‘inspiration’?  Could I save up to go to Amaroo?  Should I go this year?  How do I book the days off from work?  etc…. and other such nonsense.  Thankfully now all utterly evaporated in the light of ‘truth’

How
come so many of the ‘non-premies’ I know are so obviously much
brighter, kinder , wiser, more courageous, more charitable and more
talented than I am…or, indeed, lets face it, premies in general?   Why on earth would anyone want to ‘become a premie’?   Why are there fewer and fewer premies?   What happened to ‘bringing peace to the world’?   Why is Prem Rawat so rich?  Why is he seeking public recognition in such obviously bogus ways?  Why do I rely on the judgement of a man who published some of the worst poetry ever written?  etc.. etc..."

I am a little curious. Did you often think about this sort of thing and did you ever discuss these questions with other premies?

And did you ever go any further. The most saddening aspect of the evolution of EV and premies, to me as an interested observer, has been the acceptance of out and out nastiness and attacks on ex-premies. As far as I know no premie has ever publicly come out and complained about the ad hominem attacks on ex-premies like John MacGregor who after all was writing stuff in the press that at least about the premie revisionsim and worship and darshan and pranaming to Prem Rawat that went on in private if not in secret. Did you ever think about this? Did premies talk about it privately?






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Re: What a List
Re: Re: What a List -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
tommo ®

11/15/2006, 18:19:34
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Hello Ocker

I am a little curious. Did you often think about this sort of thing


Yes indeed.  Some of these questions certainly did occur to me frequently.  I would say especially 1) the simple observation that we premies were really not in any position to inspire anyone 2)  a general sense of unease with the seeming emphasis on money/ prestige events etc and 3) self-doubt arising from the fact that I somehow never seemed to get to a point where I 'understood' knowledge with sufficient confidence or inspiration that 'propogation' would 'flow' naturally and honestly. 

and did you ever discuss these questions with other premies?

No ..not at all.  Certainly not in the past 10- 15 years.  It has been mentioned on the forum before but I think this was an effect of the 'premie bubble' mentality. ...that K is not about sharing doubts but about finding answers within and the inspiration from that private relationship with 'the master'.    

And did you ever go any further. The most saddening aspect of the evolution of EV and premies, to me as an interested observer, has been the acceptance of out and out nastiness and attacks on ex-premies.

No.  I doubted myself before I would doubt M.  Odd as it now seems I had a firm 'faith' in M and K. ... pretty much as a religion I would say (although I would never have described it as such to myself).  I probably tend to be tenacious, faithful and also to 'give the benefit of the doubt'...clearly almost ad absurdum.    Six months ago I was only dimly aware of the fact that ex-premies even existed let alone know anything about them or about the nasty attacks on ex-premies.  The fact that I was a fringe premie.. dedicated in my own quiet way ..but with few premie friends kept me insulated.  

That is why EPO was such as surprise and as you say ... and almost even more revealing the  disgusting attacks on prominent ex-premies.  For me 'EPO' was the genuine 'missing piece'  that helped to reconcile that decidedly odd split that I had created between my real and 'premie' lives. 

best

Tim







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Beyond the Fringe
Re: Re: What a List -- tommo Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nik ®

11/16/2006, 04:56:36
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>The fact that I was a fringe premie..<

Apart from the TPRF/EV business managers and the sub contractors at Eversound - is there anything other than a 'fringe premie' these days ? Surely all but a few 'belongers' are on the outside ?

Nik







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Re: Beyond the Fringe
Re: Beyond the Fringe -- Nik Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
JHB ®

11/16/2006, 06:36:57
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Nik,

I think every community that still exists as a premie community has 'teams' for propagation, fundraising, etc., and I wouldn't describe those people as 'fringe' premies although they are not in the inner circle, or directly employed by EV, VI, TPRF, etc.

John.







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Re: Beyond the Fringe
Re: Beyond the Fringe -- Nik Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
tommo ®

11/16/2006, 13:45:21
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Nik,

Yes you may well be right  ...likely I was fairly typical..I just didn't know other people in the 'community' very well and so find it hard to judge.  But it is an inner circle that still coordinates the events that happen in the UK.   For a number of years I helped out with event registration by acting as a 'telephone' agent for premies who hadn't got computers.  There was a sense of secrets that not all were privy to ....one time (~ 2003?) there was a bit of a panic about my registering a premie who was obviously considered a 'bit of a problem'  ...One evening I had a number of phone calls from higher ups quizzing me and instructing me how to respond if said person phoned again.   I wondered at the time what on earth this person could have done to have triggered such a paranoid response.   Now of course ...it all falls into place and I see that it must have been some crazy hate fuelled ex-premie threatening to lurch into a programme with their fearsome ? ... ... set of well thought out and thoroughly reasonable questions!  Could it have been you Nik?

best

Tim







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Tim, a question if I may
Re: Re: Beyond the Fringe -- tommo Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
T ®

11/16/2006, 16:48:57
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concerning how lists of premies were handed around the various helpers.  Do you recall how this was done?

Many years ago I registered with Elan Vital UK with my name and address, telephone number, that type of information.  Once I exited, it is now several years ago, I asked several times for my name and details to be removed from all their lists, I followed this up several times.  However not once did I receive an acknowledgement of my requests.  However I continued to receive, and still do to this day, various emails, mail-shots and unsolicited telephone calls (although not so many telehone calls these days).

When you were doing whatever you were doing with the telephone ring rounds, were you ever given any information as to how the lists were drawn up and any sort of confirmation or detail as to the legal nature of such lists?

Just interested from a general point of view. I have now given up on asking Elan Vital UK to remove my details from their lists (even though they continue to break the Data Protection Act by not removing my details), maybe they don't care, more probably they continue to be as sloppy as they ever were.

Occasionally they send me stuff that is either downright funny (like updates on their hamburger trailer stand they purchased) or downright scary (like recently their wish to coerce University students into their Perfect Master is Here game).

Thanks
T







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I got my name off
Re: Tim, a question if I may -- T Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Susan ®

11/16/2006, 17:29:46
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One day, after posting here for quite a few years, I got really ANGRY when an EV invite arrived. I don't know HOW they kept sending me things for 20 years, I too asked to be removed. It wasn't until I called and said that I was SUSAN from the ex premie forum who was the one who had the problem with Jagdeo and that I was SICK of opening my mailbox finding these upsetting and disturbing invitations to events.

I never got another one. So someone there DOES have control enough to get a person off the list because I never recieved another invitation.

Thanks premie who might be lurking for taking me off. I appreciate it!







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Sounds nearly as bad as trying to cancel SKY tv ) nt
Re: Tim, a question if I may -- T Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jethro ®

11/16/2006, 23:37:08
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Related link: The horrors of cancelling SKY
Modified by Jethro at Thu, Nov 16, 2006, 23:37:33

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Re: Tim, a question if I may
Re: Tim, a question if I may -- T Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
tommo ®

11/17/2006, 14:19:18
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Hello T

For event registration I was E mailed or FAXed a list of names + phone numbers of people to try and help.  Then I would ring them and try and sort their registration out.   These were purely people who had rung the help line and wanted help.

With respect to who in EV holds names and addresses.?...well, if you are talking about the 'snail-mail' list (E mails are different) then for my region it was me for the last couple of years.  I would get E mails with new addresses (from whoeever was looking after the website mainly) and periodically add them to my local data base for the region which was in XL.   Every year or so it would be coordinated with the central EV database and an attempt made to consolidate it all together.  It took a fair bit of work to cross check everything, remove duplicates and try to get it as  right as possible.   There was no 'conspiracy' and only 'cock up' in the way the mail list was run ...not the most popular job it was simply rather difficult to know which addresses were up to date.  Probably at least half of it was out of date but the default position (at least mine) was, if in doubt, to be inclusive.  I can well imagine the situation where someone had asked to be taken off the list ...only to be put back on again by accident.  With respect to the legal issues ..they were raised but not clearly resolved (I erased the files from my computer a couple of days after reading the EPO site) 

best

Tim 







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Beyond the Fringe....that's a great post Tommo
Re: Re: Beyond the Fringe -- tommo Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
lexy ®

11/19/2006, 18:55:19
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I'm doing some catching up reading old posts I didn't have time to look at.

I feel sad when I read your posts Tommo.It's the sadness I felt when I found EPO mid 2004.I knew nothing about it either.....but had had the same doubts as your own for many years ( constant fund raising,prestige events etc ) as well as the strange vibe at programmes ( which I now realise was the increasing paranoia), the disappearance of the premies I had seen at programmes for years and the increasingly shameless selling of very tacky souvenirs outside.

I too was a fringe premie, helping out where I could,with my own self contained little religion....just me and Maharaj Ji.Quite sweet really.

I wonder how you are handling the aftermath of so many years of service and devotion now the bubble has burst?

warm regards,

Alexandra 







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