John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language**
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Posted by:
ocker ®

10/21/2006, 19:49:17
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chuck posted a link below
(http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/11754.html) to some of John
MacGregor's posts after he “realised Knowledge.” I re-read what John wrote (http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/macgregor3.htm)
and I thought it was very good.

While nobody involved in John’s legal problems
with IRCC/EV came out of it looking good there was one person involved, Damien
Scattini, the cult lawyer who seemed to me, at least, to go to the dark side by
nature and not by Rawat’s nurture.

He has since been involved in some
high-profile cases including a failed sexual abuse civil prosecution in which he
got himself splashed all over the media as a shining "white Knight' until his
client’s case failed to meet the minimum criteria for prosecution. He then
became the solicitor for a now notorious surgeon of Indian ethnicity usually called
“Dr Death” whose face makes even Prem Rawat’s look good (well almost).

“Dr Death” is an incompetent surgeon who
killed enough of his patients to almost bring down the government and produce a
Royal Commission and a complete overhaul of the State Health Care system
(health is a state responsibility in Australia). Damian Scattini is currently
in a public slanging match with the Premier of Queensland (Premier being the equivalent
of “Prime Minister for English/Governor for US” of the state). Damien Scattini
appears to be the lawyer of last resort for the sleaziest clients in town. However
in this case he is up against powerful people, not naďve ex-premies, and Premier
Beattie is publicly condemning him as sleazy and dishonest.

 

http://www.news.com.au/sundaymail/story/0,,20608457-1248,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20611360-5006786,00.html

 

Coincidentally a journalist working on the
Prem Rawat / John MacGregor story, Hedley Thomas, also received a High
Commendation in the 2006 Journalism of the Year award for his work on the “Dr
Death” scandal. Mr Thomas phoned Mr Scattini after satirical information linking
Scattini to Rawat as a devotee became public. While Scattini was happy to do work
for Rawat and his minions he was absolutely furious that people might think he was
a devotee of Rawat’s and initiated a criminal investigation to determine the
culprit so he could “cut him a new arsehole.” It seems that even lawyers have some standards.

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Re: John MacGregor revisited: Peace at a Price
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/21/2006, 20:02:53
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I'm not sure why but ex-premie.org doesn't have a copy of this article by Hedley Thomas published in the Courier-Mail and one of the most comprehensive recent newspaper articles about Rawat. There is a copy at http://drek.org/pages/elk_parody/cm.html though it's areal article and not a parody.


Peace at a price


Features

Hedley Thomas

1819 Words

24 April 2004

The Courier-Mail

1 - First with the news

35

English

Copyright 2004 News Ltd. All Rights Reserved

Thousands of devotees mill about the tent sites pitched for an
international love-in with the Maharaji. But, as Hedley Thomas tells,
there are unhappy campers trying to bring the affluent peace guru down
a peg or two


JIM Barrow lowers his voice and suggests a table out of earshot of a
group munching McMuffins in the shadows of the golden arches on the
outskirts of Ipswich.


He and his wife, Maureen, don't readily trust strangers in these parts
any more. Too many bizarre things going down, he reckons. Too close to
the Maharaji and his devotees, more than 3000 of whom are streaming
into the district -- in helicopters, limousines, buses and taxis -- for
five days of peace and bonding at Peak Crossing.


Barrow
is carrying folders stuffed with documents. There's academic literature
on Elan Vital, formerly the Divine Light Mission, and its extravagantly
affluent guru, Maharaji (also known as Prem Rawat).


There are tell-all confessions of former followers, who are waging an
extraordinary cyberspace cult war against a man they once hailed as
god-like, a "Lord of the Universe" but now condemned as a fraud.


There are extracts from company and property searches identifying the
legal and financial structure underpinning the Australian enterprise
and its jewel, the Ivory's Rock Conference Centre at Peak Crossing,
into which some $20 million has been poured.


And letters and petitions from local residents, mostly rural farming
folk like Jim and Maureen, who have read much about the guru in the
decade since a company connected to his empire snapped up the land, but
never met him.


"If the Maharaji walked in here now, I'd get up and walk away," drawls
Barrow, a retired US Navy chief petty officer whose farming property
backs on to the 800ha of land controlled by Elan Vital.


"It would turn my stomach just to see him. Anyone who can prey on
people's uncertainties, who can promise people things that they have
not found yet, is not a good person."


Barrow complains that he's been butting his head against a bureaucratic
wall for years in a bid to have Elan Vital Inc Australia, a registered
non-profit association, investigated by the Australian Taxation Office
and other authorities.


He produces a chapter from Larson's New Book of Cults. It says: "In the
early seventies, Guru Maharaji Ji commanded one of the largest and
fastest-growing followings of all imported cult leaders."


Other historical records paint a fascinating picture. As a teenager he
led thousands through the streets of Delhi in 1970 declaring, "I will
establish peace in this world."


Tens of thousands of teenagers and young adults in the West left
families, universities and jobs to commune in ashrams. In line with the
guru's message, they sought enlightenment while abstaining from sex and
alcohol during a quest for peace and the Knowledge.


But when, at 16, the guru wed a former United Airlines flight
attendant, who then promptly refused to let her mother-in-law set foot
in the newly acquired Malibu mansion, things got really weird: Maharaji
was denounced by his own mum as a "drinking, dancing,
nightclub-haunting meateater", unfit to follow in his father's sacred
footsteps.


"At one time," according to the Book of Cults, "he confidently declared
`The Key to the whole life, the key to the existence of this entire
universe, rests in the hands of (me)'. Then it all fell apart."


But not completely. It is a sunny breezy day behind Ipswich, perfect
for a mass love-in amidst picturesque rural surrounds. Just 20km from
where Barrow sits fulminating, a charismatic, if corpulent (he is said
to enjoy fine cognac) cult figure smiles with a heavenly radiance.


His followers, who have come from around the world to pay homage, and
much more besides (all major credit cards accepted), walk contentedly
through the park-like grounds between the private restaurants, coffee
shops, amphitheatre and hundreds of tents.


It is the most expensive camp site in Australia for the week: devotees
who opted for the "deluxe" tent package paid $4000 a couple. Organisers
hasten to add that "the techniques of Knowledge are taught free of
charge without regard to a person's gender, economic or social status,
sexual preference, lifestyle, race, religious or ethnic background";
and that about 230 devotees at Ivory's Rock this week paid nothing.


During previous visits he stayed in a sprawling mansion at Fig Tree
Pocket, but this time he's bunking down in a permanent tent, or "pent",
so called, according to devotee and conference organiser Cath Carroll,
"because their design is modelled on the shape of a tent but provides
permanent cabin-style accommodation".


While Jim Barrow obviously has concerns, Carroll says many other
neighbours are very happy with a situation that creates jobs and pours
money into the area.


When he is not abroad to talk to other happy campers about peace,
Maharaji enjoys the comforts of a mansion in Malibu, California and the
ocean-going stability of a luxury private yacht. For trips he relies on
the convenience afforded by private jets like the Gulfstream which
whisked him to Brisbane.


MAHARAJI'S Elan Vital Australia people say simply that, "He enjoys an
affluent lifestyle and makes no secret about it: his view is that
neither poverty nor riches brings fulfilment.


"His lifestyle is entirely supported by his own personal business
investments. Absolutely no money flows from these organisations to him
or his family.


"Since Maharaji left India in 1971, he has been audited several times.
He has never been charged with any wrongdoing. Every time, the audits
have had a completely positive and successful outcome."


Maharaji rarely does media interviews but a few days before mingling
with his devotees at Ivory's Rock, he gave a speech at Griffith
University.


"A lot of people are shocked with my message because they're really hoping I will give them a formula," he told the throng.


"You know, `go stand on one leg for 15 minutes and if you don't feel
peace, call me in the morning'. I don't do that. I say to people `peace
is inside of you and it will be whether you make an attempt to feel it
or not, it will always be inside of you'."


But the self-indulgent opulence infuriates former devotees, some of
whom for several years have been diligently filing millions of words
about the Maharaji on to a website, (www.ex-premie.org).


With the help of senior defectors they have analysed the financial
structures and assets while recounting the poverty of devotees who
blissfully handed over their own wealth.


They ask questions like: "Was it not hypocritical to prohibit your
followers from drinking and smoking or having sex whilst you did so
yourself in private?"; "Why do you encourage your followers to line up
and kiss your feet?"; "How can you claim to be a bringer of peace when
you don't even get along with your own brother?"; and "Do you need your
yacht, plane and wealth to spread Knowledge?"


The
depth of the Internet site and its detail on everything from the
banality of his utterances, to photographs and title deeds of the
mansion, have stung Maharaji and his remaining devotees into
counter-strikes. Peace, apparently, is a flexible concept for a guru
when he's coming under serious fire.


Cath Carroll, an unfailingly polite devotee who runs Ivory's Rock, provides excerpts from the official website (www.elanvital.com.au) and characterises the critics as a small hate group hellbent on stalking and harassing Maharaji and Elan Vital.


Among the critics, she says, are a crooked lawyer, a drugs trafficker,
a paranoid maniac, an unethical journalist and a schizophrenic. "This
is not exactly a cross-section of normal, ordinary, functional
law-abiding citizens."


Elan Vital dismisses the once-dedicated devotees as mental misfits who
have incited people to drug and kidnap Maharaji's family and to poison
the water at the Ivory's Rock property.


These "cyber-stalkers", it says, have even published on the Internet
details about the private lives and sexual preferences of devotees and
mounted campaigns to warn employers that their staff belong to a
dangerous cult.


"Maharaji is simply motivated by his wish to help as many people as
possible find within themselves the peace and happiness that he has
found.


"He does not receive any financial compensation or remuneration for his appearance."


MUCH of Elan Vital's attention in recent months has been focused on
John Macgregor, an Australian journalist who was a devotee for almost
30 years until he began to read the website and verify the information.


"You can stay in denial for only so long," he says.


Macgregor also published on the Internet confidential commercial
information about Elan Vital which had been stolen by a Gold Coast
computer technician, then leaked.


The disclosures were dreadful.


Secret donors and creditors whose names were being bandied around were
apoplectic. Macgregor was followed and located in Western Australia by
private detectives and Brisbane solicitor Damian Scattini, acting on
behalf of Elan Vital.


"I've been secretly filmed, followed, tape-recorded and watched outside
my home," Macgregor says. Scattini won at every turn, succeeding in a
series of Queensland Supreme Court actions which gagged Macgregor and
led to adverse findings over his credibility.


Scattini regards Macgregor as a liar and a misfit who broke the law.
Macgregor says he has become accustomed to personal counter-attacks
since he turned on Maharaji.


But this week, Scattini, who is not a devotee, became the target of an
Internet campaign: several thousand e-mails falsely purporting to have
been sent by him were bounced into the inbox of lawyers, politicians,
journalists and other professionals throughout Australia. They were
worded to cause the solicitor maximum embarrassment.


"I don't feel much peace and love at the moment. I'm ropeable," he said.



"He knows how to tune us in and help us connect with the experience
that's in our heart. He helps me find my way back to a place inside
that nourishes me and makes me feel taken care of," Marsh says.


Carol Robinson, from the UK, says practising what Maharaji preaches
"gives me a real focus in life. He's not harming me, he's not harming
anyone".


The Gulfstream at Brisbane Airport (a photograph of it sitting on the
tarmac was posted on the www.ex-premie.org web-site yesterday) will
soon carry him home. But you get the impression that the story, and the
hostility surrounding a peace guru, will run and run.

Back at Ivory's Rock, the conference is today culminating and
thousands of tent pegs will come out of the rich soil. For followers
like Vic Marsh, the Maharaji event was "like a huge celebration".











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Who is who?
Re: Re: John MacGregor revisited: Peace at a Price -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

10/22/2006, 01:18:37
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a crooked lawyer, a drugs trafficker,

a paranoid maniac, an unethical journalist and a schizophrenic

Come on, own up!

I think the unethical journalist might be in Mongolia right now.

And what does this mean?:

Copyright 2004 News Ltd. All Rights Reserved









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I'm not on the list
Re: Who is who? -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
JHB ®

10/22/2006, 02:19:10
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We think we've identified everyone on EV's list, although the 'crooked lawyer' could be Marianne (for late tax filing), or Jim (for joking about embezzling money from DLM), but I appear to be missing. I guess I'm just too boring......





Modified by JHB at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 02:21:54

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It's just a repeat of the the hate that Charles Glasser spewed.....
Re: I'm not on the list -- JHB Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

10/22/2006, 23:07:39
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You know, like Charles Glasser had on his website which, because of his huge ego, he was unable to keep himself anonymous as the author and had to take it down.  Anyway, the cult theory is that if any one leaves the lotus feet and has the gall to complain about Rawat, he or she must be a psychopath, drug addict, or just, you know, evil.  I think "cyberstalker" is there catch-all phrase for it that the cult uses.

It's what cults do.  Scientology is even worse.






Modified by Joe at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 23:10:04

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Re: It's just a repeat of the the hate that Charles Glasser spewed.....
Re: It's just a repeat of the the hate that Charles Glasser spewed..... -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

10/23/2006, 01:51:04
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That list just strikes me as funny. I mean, as if you are supposed to read 'unethical journalist', and go 'aha, I won't trust anything that fellow writes then. He just writes unethical things'.

Coming up with such a list, I guess Mr Glasser must be part of some 'hate group' 






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Elan Vital Seems to Have no Idea how Utterly Stupid they Appear
Re: Re: It's just a repeat of the the hate that Charles Glasser spewed..... -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

10/23/2006, 18:20:52
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I mean, there are only supposed to be a few exes, right, and we all use "multiple" names to appear larger.  But then we are all anonymous, but EV seems to know a lot of evil things about us.  The language is just so juvenile.  "Crooked lawyer"  I mean, really.  It's just laughable.

Either Rawat is an idiot the tells these clowns what to do, or he really has a bunch of incompetent idiots running things.







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Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper
Re: Who is who? -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/22/2006, 14:56:51
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It means that News Limited is the company that owns the Courier-Mail newspaper and they copyright all articles printed in the newspaper.






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Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper
Re: Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

10/22/2006, 17:29:36
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Well, I kind of guessed that. I was just wondering why no-one pays any attention to the copyright. Is it an internet thing?






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Re: The Meaning of 'copyright'
Re: Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/22/2006, 20:06:34
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I thought that meant it was alright to copy.






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Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper
Re: Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

10/22/2006, 20:36:29
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Now Ocker's being cute.  Here's the legal statement on the gallery page that covers use of copyrighted stuff.  When I copy items from newspapers, etc., to here I usually (unless I forget) place the copyright info at the bottom as Ocker did, which is adequate for purposes of this forum, imo, because no one's profiting off of it.  If I were to publish a book or an article, I'd need to get permission from the copyright holder to use it, unless there are exceptions to usage.  That's about all I know about it, and I may be completely wrong, so don't quote me.  That's why copyright attorneys get the really big bucks.

 

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Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 20:39:40

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Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper
Re: Re: News Limited owns the Courier-Mail newspaper -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

10/23/2006, 01:44:53
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Thanks Cynthia.






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I had never seen that article before, thanks.
Re: Re: John MacGregor revisited: Peace at a Price -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

10/22/2006, 23:05:29
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I take it Cath Carrol has no problem repeating the libellous crap that is on the Austalia EV website.  Elan Vital US removed that drivel some time ago.  I guess they got a little nervous. 






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Re: I had never seen that article before, thanks.
Re: I had never seen that article before, thanks. -- Joe Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/23/2006, 15:38:28
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I used to take phone messages from Cath Carroll in the early 90's I think. She has one of those beautiful voices and wonderfully, endearing Irish accents. As the journo wrote, she is unfailingly polite but when it comes to the Lord she's says whatever is necessary.






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She's a Horrible Shill
Re: Re: I had never seen that article before, thanks. -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
OTS ®

10/23/2006, 22:03:23
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She's a company shill.  Sprouting the same crap year after year after year.  I left a phone message on her answering machine just before exing about how they treated my wife like a slave during her service "opportunity" at Amaroo.  What a cow pasture.  14 years later, and not the first real amenity built for anyone but Malibu Prem and his hydraulic bar-b-que.  What a waste of funds. Cath was the CO-manager.  What happened to George?






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Re: Are you sure you've got the right Shill?
Re: She's a Horrible Shill -- OTS Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/25/2006, 16:35:23
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Back in 1991 I don't think CC was the co-manager of IRCC. I didn't pay much attention to that sort of stuff but I think there were 2 other women honchos running it into the ground before G&C took over.

I don't know what GL is doing these days, I haven't seen him in 3 years though if I met him in the street (we live in the same area) it might get very nasty. Before the MacGregor affair I'd met him 3 or 4 times and he seemed like a nice old guy, I didn't think much of or about him. Not being a premie I just took people as I found them and their role in EV was nothing to me. I think people can be decent in their life but act in any way they think necessary to "protect the Lord."






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Yeah, that's her
Re: Re: Are you sure you've got the right Shill? -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
OTS ®

10/26/2006, 11:16:34
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I'm talking about 2001 not 1991.  Before Cath was......I forget her name..very slight woman....she was summarily booted out back in 1999 or so.






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Great article, should be on EPO, but
Re: Re: John MacGregor revisited: Peace at a Price -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jean-Michel ®

10/23/2006, 02:11:42
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Anybody having a hard copy of the original article ?
Much better than this for the records.
Please email me, or answer here.

J-M








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Maharaji's inner peace in a tent doesn't come cheap
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/21/2006, 21:08:34
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Another newspaper article that doesn't seem to be on the net, yet:



Wednesday, April 21, 2004 The Courier-Mail




Maharaji's inner peace in a tent doesn't come cheap

hedleythomas (7K)


innertent (28K)
After arriving in Brisbane by private jet to join devotees
camping out in tents, globe-trotting guru Maharaji delivered a
message of peace yesterday against a backdrop of controversy and
rancour.


In a high-technology amphitheatre on the grounds of an 800ha
property at Peak Crossing, near Ipswich, his message in English was
simultaneously translated into 10 languages for the more than 3,000
followers who had gathered.


Devotees Victor Marsh, of Ocean Shores near Byron Bay, and Carol
Robinson, who travelled from the United Kingdom, said they
discovered inner peace by appreciating Maharaji's message and
techniques. But detractors of Maharaji, including Australian
journalist and former longtime devotee, John Macgregor, accuse him
of being a wealthy cult-leading fraud who bilks the gullible.
Critics have steadily stepped up an Internet campaign to expose the
group. Some devotees with VIP status in Elan Vital, the group
founded in the 1970s as Divine Light Mission by Maharaji (also known
as Prem Rawat), yesterday flew from Europe and the US, forking out
thousands of dollars to stay in an “executive” tent to
hear him talk.


The next rung down, the “deluxe” tent package, with
two people sharing a double bed with electric blanket, towels, bed
side lamp and table, carpet, shelves and two chairs, costs $3990 for
the five days.


Elan Vital staffers who organised the conference, mindful that
many of Maharaji's followers were not affluent, also offered a
“pioneer” tent option at $1440 each (single bed, pillows
and sleeping bag inclusive).


And for those with camping know-how, the “swagman”
option allows devotees to set up two-person tents on the property
for $545 each.


Preparing for the Maharaji's visit has been a boon for dozens of
contractors as organisers Cath Carroll and Stuart Hogarth have left
nothing to chance.


Up to 60 chefs and caterers are staying on-site to prepare food
around the clock while a team of 44 cleaners will work two shifts.


Security has been tight to deter anyone considering
gate-crashing the Ivory Rock Conference Centre, which is controlled
by Elan Vital International to market and promote events and raise
funds.


Shares in Myrine Investments Ltd, a private company incorporated
in the Channel Islands which owns the land, are held on behalf of
the Prem Rawat Foundation.


However, Elan Vital officials say Maharaji “receives no
financial benefit”.

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John, the forum looks REAL GOOD now
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Axis ®

10/22/2006, 00:28:40
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RIGHT ON TOPIC!

My prayers have been answered!!  That is what I called "real, creative,positive intelligence.  Good finding, or should we talk about vegetables?  LOL

~Axis!~







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Re: welcome back Ocker I will reply to your e-mail
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Andries ®

10/22/2006, 06:52:43
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Hi Ocker, welcome back. My reply to your e-mail is long overdue, but I had not forgotten about it.






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Approach indicates prems inner state. Cornered! nt.
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
turey ®

10/22/2006, 07:13:50
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Next....Dazed and Confused....? nt.
Re: Approach indicates prems inner state. Cornered! nt. -- turey Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
turey ®

10/22/2006, 07:17:42
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Modified by turey at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 10:01:12

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So, Ocker...
Re: John MacGregor revisited: **warning sarcasm and bad language** -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

10/22/2006, 11:12:31
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What's your point?






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Re: So, Ocker...
Re: So, Ocker... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/22/2006, 15:01:27
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Hi Cynthia,

I repeated a swear word in a nasty phrase that Mr Damian Scattini used to the journalist and I mentioned a satirical internet event that occurred targetting Mr Damian Scattini that many people who posted on this Forum back then found distasteful. I just wanted to ensure that I didn't unnecessarily offend anyone.






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Re: So, Ocker...
Re: Re: So, Ocker... -- ocker Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
zelator ®

10/23/2006, 07:41:39
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Hi

Do you know how to view file.img pictures which remain as those little red crosses? There is a way someone explained a while back.

 Right click on cross, go to properties .. and then ?

I thank you in advance

Zed







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Re: Displaying images... (OT)
Re: Re: So, Ocker... -- zelator Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
ocker ®

10/23/2006, 15:46:48
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There are many possible reasons why you cannot view image files. It's been a long time since I've seen .img files that were pictures, these days they are usually CDROM image files. If you cannot see images or pictures while using Internet Explorer and viewing pages on the Web or this Forum it is possibly because your security settings prevent you from viewing images. Click on the Tools->Internet Options menu. Go to the Advanced Tab and scroll down and make sure the box titled Show Images is ticked. 






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