There's a certain emotional reaction one gets to this kind of stuff that's like a new taste sensation. It comes with seeing apparently intelligent people behave more stupidly than imaginable. Here, for instance, is a white British radio talk show host and a host of Muslims in Britain (I won't say "British Muslims" buying into the CRAZY idea promulgated by a loon who thinks he's the messiah that 7/7 was the act of the British government and Mossad.
He's been arrested for attempting to obstruct justice. Good!
Comment: This is absolutely mind boggling. The chances for these two events taking place at the same time, let alone in the same locations are astronomical (numbers so big we had to look up how to say them). And these estimates are within a very conservative five year mean. In other words, most statistical analysis that is designed to create the impression of a similarly incredible improbability is usually framed within a greater amount of time: 50 years since England began experiencing bombings, 130 years since the Tube first opened, etc. We don't need to frame these results in that way because the chance is so low that these events would ever occur simultaneously without some sort of intervention that one might go so far as to call it impossible.
Probability of one attack by hour (5yr mean): One chance in 9,474,920
Open Hours per Day: 19
Probability of 3 station terror hit (5yr mean): One chance in 850,602,500,906,920,000,000
Open Days a Year: 364
Mean Sample frequent (yrs) 5 Probability of one attack by hour (10yr mean): One chance in 18,949,840
Mean Sample frequent (yrs) 10 Probability of 3 station terror hit (10yr mean): One chance in 6,804,820,007,255,360,000,000
Same Time 3
LU Stations: 274
Probability of drill on 1 stations per hour: One chance in 817,342
Open Hours per Day: 19
Probability of drill on 3 stations per hour: One chance in 546,023,643,432,766,000
Open Days a Year: 157
Same Time 3
PROBABILITY OF DRILL AND TERROR ATTACK COINCIDING BY CHANCE (10yr mean): One chance in 3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Estimate of Grains of sand in the whole world: 7,500,000,000,000,000,000
(http://www.miamisci.org/tripod/whysand.html)
In context: If I go to a beach, or a desert, or under the sea and pick a single grain of sand. What chance is there of you going to the same part of the world by chance and picking up the same grain? You are trillions of times more likely to do this that the London drill coinciding with this attack at that hour
I wonder why the media aren't reporting this.
Modified by hilltop at Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 19:39:11
I don't really know anything about the premise, but you can't make a causal inference from this sort of discombobulated statistical argument. Nearly everything that happens is improbable in retrospect. Think about it.
A statement, apparently from Mr Power, has appeared in the comments section of a recent blog posting regarding comments Power made on the BBC last week.
As we highlighted, the “crisis management expert” revealed that some companies used the shut down of the city of London on Wednesday, during the G20 protests, as a dress rehearsal for an influenza pandemic.
In response to an explanation of who Peter Power is, which was added by the Uncensored Magazine blog, Mr Power himself posted a lengthy statement in which he reveals that the company he was working with on 7/7 was London based information giant Reed Elsevier.
The company is most notable for its ownership of the Lexis/Nexis legal database, as well as many other information sources. As Elsevier, it runs a vast number of science journals, including some of the biggest and most reputable ones. Reed is also known as a host of large exhibitions. The company part owns the ExCel Centre in London’s Docklands area, where the G20 summit was held this past weekend.
Here is Peter Power’s statement in full:
There has been much nonsense written about why my company ran an exercise on 7 July 2005 that had very close parallels to the real thing that day. Since then I have made several attempts to add my own comments to numerous sites that seem to get increasingly excited about their own conspiracy theories and in the process exclude any rational debate. It seems those who occupy the world of finding conspiracy theories to replace just about any coincidence, do not want to have any dialogue with those offering a different view, but I have not yet given up hope. I am therefore hoping, perhaps naively, that someone might like to read an honest and factual account about a particular exercise my company ran in London three years ago.
Unfortunately, the BBC had postponed in 2008 a programme in their ‘conspiracy files’ series that would have done this. Our client three years ago agreed to be named in the BBC programme since the attitude of the producer and his team was very balanced (several conspiracy theorists were also invited to take part). We even allowed our complete exercise material to be made available to the BBC. Regrettably broadcasting in 2008 might have jeopardised an ongoing court case, so they had little choice about postponing it to 2009.
Early in 2005 Reed Elsevier, an organisation specialising in information and publishing that employs 1,000 people in and around London, asked us to help them prepare an effective crisis management plan and rehearse it before sign-off. Several draft scenarios were drawn up and the crisis team themselves set the exercise date and time: 9.00am on 7 July.
The test was planned as a table-top walk through for about six people (the CM team) in a lecture room with all injects simulated. Everything was on MS PowerPoint. The location of their Central London office near to Chancery Lane was chosen as one test site. With many staff travelling to work via the London underground system, the chosen exercise simulated incendiary devices on three trains, very similar to a real IRA attack in 1992, as well as other events.
As there had been eighteen terrorist bomb attacks on tube trains prior to 2005, choosing the London Underground was logical rather than just prescient. With this in mind it was hardly surprising that Deutsche Bank had run a similar exercise a few days before and, prior to that, a multi-agency (and much publicised) exercise code-named Osiris II had simulated a terrorist attack at Bank tube station. Moreover, I had also taken part in a BBC Panorama programme in 2004 as a panellist alongside Michael Portillo MP et al, in an unscripted debate (we had no idea at all what the scenario was to be?) on how London might once again, deal with terrorist attacks, only this time it was fictional (created entirely by the BBC).
In short, some of the research for our exercise had already been done. The scenario developed for our client even started by using fictitious news items from the Panorama programme then, as with any walk through exercise, events unfolded solely on a screen as dictated by the facilitator without any external injects or actions beyond the exercise room. Also factored into the scenario was to be an above ground fictitious bomb exploding not far from the head office of the protected Jewish Chronicle magazine where for exercise purposes, our imagined terrorists would have been aware that commuters would now be walking to work (past a building already considered a target) as some tube stations would have been closed.
Of just eight nearby tube stations that fell within possible exercise scope, three were chosen that, by coincidence, were involved in the awful drama that actually took place on 7 July 2005. A level of scenario validation that on this occasion, we could have done without.
An exercise that turns into the real thing is not that unusual. For example, in January 2003, thirty people were injured when a tube train derailed and hit a wall at speed. At the same time, the City of London Police were running an exercise for their central casualty bureau where the team quickly abandoned their plans and swung into action to cope with the real thing.
For a surprising number of people such coincidents cannot be accepted as such. There just has to be a conspiracy behind them, despite the obvious point that painstaking research will always identify probable above possible scenarios. By the way, the only reason I was asked to speak on TV news that day, when there was still much confusion about the real tragedies, was to encourage more organisations to thoroughly plan their own exercises knowing the threat of terrorism is and remains, very real. One tragic consequence being Islam, a great Abrahamic, monotheistic faith (along with Judaism and Christianity), has undeservedly become vilified by some people.
Peter Power Visor Consultants
To re-cap the situation, on the afternoon of July 7th, 2005, Power told a BBC radio interviewer that his company was running an exercise for an unnamed group that revolved around three bombs going off at precisely the same tube stations and precisely the same time as those that were hit that morning.
The transcript is as follows.
PETER POWER: At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.
HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?
POWER: Precisely, and it was about half past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don’t want to reveal their name but they’re listening and they’ll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they’d met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision that this is the real one and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from slow time to quick time thinking and so on.
The odds of such a coincidence are absolutely staggering, which led some to charge that Power’s drill was set up ahead of time, or used by people with insider foreknowledge of 7/7.
Just as happened on 9/11, when exercises involving hijacked aircraft overlapped with the real attacks, some charge that the drill was a cover for the real attack in case any of its perpetrators were caught.
Power alluded to the nature of the simulations in the days after 7/7, in an effort to downplay the significance of the mock-versus-real events.
Less than one week after the bombings, as Power and his company Visor consultants received correspondence and questions, mostly stemming from our articles on the drills, a short statement was issued, concluding with the following comments:
“Beyond this no further comment will be made and based on the extraordinary number of messages from ill informed people, no replies will henceforth be given to anyone unable to demonstrate a bona fide reason for asking (e.g. accredited journalist / academic).”
Power’s culpability is seemingly minimal - after all why would he announce the drill on national radio hours after the attack? - but his reaction to questions regarding the drills highlighted that he was not comfortable discussing the subject further.
Indeed, in December 2007, when Power was approached politiely by members of the We Are Change group, who explained who they were and what they were doing, he refused to answer any of their questions on camera, saying he would not tolerate the approach.
Watch the video:
Modified by hilltop at Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 19:49:57
Hilltop, you really do need to learn to think better. The whole reason for the drill was that there was -- and is -- a pervasive threat of Islamic terrorism in Britain. This caused two things that day: a drill to protect against it and, coincidentally, the act of terror itself. The high likelihood of the latter obviously precipitated the first. Same thing with the similarities in the natures of the drill and attack. The drill was designed by experts to approximate the most likely form of attack and it did just that, didn't it?
You might have a point if, out of the blue, the government did a drill to defend against a storm of frogs falling out of the sky like in the end of "Magnolia" and that same day the very thing happened. I mean you'd be asking why in the world they ever worried about such a thing and why in the world did it ever happen. But that's not at all the case here.
But there's another obvious problem with your kind of thinking. It ignores all the evidence! Not just the evidence of what specifically happened, the video surveillance, the nature of the jihadis, their good-bye videos. Also the evidence of the political and religious climate this event happened in. And also -- my favourite when it comes to debunking idiotic shit like this -- the evidence of human nature itself. Hint: most people who call themselves Jesus are nuts and most people aren't murderous, treacherous villians.
You've lost the plot, fella. You might as well be two years old, maybe three. Certainly a four year-old has a better grasp of human nature than you and your fellow conspiracy lovers. You HAD that grasp but your theories have pried open your hands.
You can choose to believe whatever bullshit you want but please stop posting your paranoid conspiracy theories here. By believing this shit unquestioningly you are ignoring all the evidence, and ignoring human nature. Conspiracies of the scale you believe in are simply not feasible given the number of people who would have to be involved.
If I have to ban you from this forum you would also be banned from the Prem Rawat Talk forum and I don't want to do that, so view this as an exercise in voluntary restraint.
I've been told this week that in the event of a swine flu epidemic, the vehicle I drive for a living will be co-opted to distribute necessary medications to out of the way places. It'll still be me at the controls, Dr.D at your service as long as I don't succumb. I suggested putting a bell on top & a recorded message of 'bring out your dead', but that went down like a lead balloon. I think I'm losing my touch. I used to be so good at the bullshit in my yuppie days.
No, it's an intelligent & practical response to a possible major problem. I'm all in favour though it's all top secret....
Is Big Pharma trying to heal us or kill us ? Toronto Sun reports :
The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.
And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria.
“At this juncture we are confident in saying that public health and occupational risk is minimal at present,” medical officer Roberta Andraghetti said from Copenhagen, Denmark.
“But what remains unanswered are the circumstances surrounding the incident in the Baxter facility in Orth-Donau.” The contaminated product, a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses and unlabelled H5N1 viruses, was supplied to an Austrian research company. The Austrian firm, Avir Green Hills Biotechnology, then sent portions of it to sub-contractors in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany.
The contamination incident, which is being investigated by the four European countries, came to light when the subcontractor in the Czech Republic inoculated ferrets with the product and they died. Ferrets shouldn’t die from exposure to human H3N2 flu viruses.
Public health authorities concerned about what has been described as a “serious error” on Baxter’s part have assumed the death of the ferrets meant the H5N1 virus in the product was live. But the company, Baxter International Inc., has been parsimonious about the amount of information it has released about the event.
On Friday, the company’s director of global bioscience communications confirmed what scientists have suspected. “It was live,” Christopher Bona said in an email.
The contaminated product, which Baxter calls “experimental virus material,” was made at the Orth-Donau research facility. Baxter makes its flu vaccine — including a human H5N1 vaccine for which a licence is expected shortly — at a facility in the Czech Republic.
People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility. That is a dangerous practice that should not be allowed to happen, a number of experts insisted. Accidental release of a mixture of live H5N1 and H3N2 viruses could have resulted in dire consequences.
While H5N1 doesn’t easily infect people, H3N2 viruses do. If someone exposed to a mixture of the two had been simultaneously infected with both strains, he or she could have served as an incubator for a hybrid virus able to transmit easily to and among people. That mixing process, called reassortment, is one of two ways pandemic viruses are created. There is no suggestion that happened because of this accident, however. “We have no evidence of any reassortment, that any reassortment may have occurred,” said Andraghetti.
“And we have no evidence of any increased transmissibility of the viruses that were involved in the experiment with the ferrets in the Czech Republic.”
Baxter hasn’t shed much light — at least not publicly — on how the accident happened. Earlier this week Bona called the mistake the result of a combination of “just the process itself, (and) technical and human error in this procedure.” He said he couldn’t reveal more information because it would give away proprietary information about Baxter’s production process.
Andraghetti said Friday the four investigating governments are co-operating closely with the WHO and the European Centre for Disease Control in Stockholm, Sweden.
“We are in very close contact with Austrian authorities to understand what the circumstances of the incident in their laboratory were,” she said.
“And the reason for us wishing to know what has happened is to prevent similar events in the future and to share lessons that can be learned from this event with others to prevent similar events. … This is very important.”
Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor writes in Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries : Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries. The “mistake” (if you can call it that, see below…) was discovered by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Canada. The World Health Organization was alerted and panic spread throughout the vaccine community as health experts asked the obvious question: How could this have happened? …….. Or, put another way, Baxter is acting a whole lot like a biological terrorism organization these days, sending deadly viral samples around the world. If you mail an envelope full of anthrax to your Senator, you get arrested as a terrorist. So why is Baxter — which mailed samples of a far more deadly viral strain to labs around the world — getting away with saying, essentially, “Oops?”But there’s a bigger question in all this: How could this company have accidentally mixed LIVE avian flu viruses (both H5N1 and H3N2, the human form) in this vaccine material?
Was the viral contamination intentional? The shocking answer is that this couldn’t have been an accident. Why? Because Baxter International adheres to something called BSL3(Biosafety Level 3) – a set of laboratory safety protocols that prevent the cross-contamination of materials. As explained on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosaf…):
“Laboratory personnel have specific training in handling pathogenic and potentially lethal agents, and are supervised by competent scientists who are experienced in working with these agents. This is considered a neutral or warm zone. All procedures involving the manipulation of infectious materials are conducted within biological safety cabinets or other physical containment devices, or by personnel wearing appropriate personal protective clothing and equipment. The laboratory has special engineering and design features.”
It is bad enough that governments all over the world have been warning about the likely pandemic flu. Now we find out we cannot trust Big Pharma to handle such bio-hazardous material in a safe manner.
Who knows whether it was intentional? But I sure would like to know what really happened? And I sure would like to see the people responsible fired!
Czech newspapers are questioning if the shocking discovery of vaccines contaminated with the deadly avian flu virus which were distributed to 18 countries by the American company Baxter were part of a conspiracy to provoke a pandemic.
The claim holds weight because, according to the very laboratory protocols that are routine for vaccine makers, mixing a live virus biological weapon with vaccine material by accident is virtually impossible.
“The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses,” reports the Canadian Press.
Baxter flu vaccines contaminated with H5N1 – otherwise known as the human form of avian flu, one of the most deadly biological weapons on earth with a 60% kill rate – were received by labs in the Czech Republic, Germany, and Slovenia.
Initially, Baxter attempted to stonewall questions by invoking “trade secrets” and refused to reveal how the vaccines were contaminated with H5N1. After increased pressure they then claimed that pure H5N1 batches were sent by accident. This was seemingly an attempt to quickly change the story and hide the fact that the accidental contamination of a vaccine with a deadly biological agent like avian flu is virtually impossible and the only way it could have happened was by wilful gross criminal negligence. …. According to a compiled translation from Czech newspaper stories, the media over there is asking tough questions about whether the contamination was part of a deliberate attempt to start a pandemic.
“Was this just a criminal negligence or it was an attempt to provoke pandemia using vaccination against flu to spread the disease – as happened with the anti-B hepatitis vaccination with vaccines containing the HIV virus in US? – and then cash for the vaccines against H5N1 which Baxter develops? How could on Earth a virus as H5N1 come to the ordinary flu vaccines? Don’t they follow even basic precautions in the american pharma companies?” states the translation.
The fact that Baxter mixed the deadly H5N1 virus with a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses is the smoking gun. The H5N1 virus on its own has killed hundreds of people, but it is less airborne and more restricted in the ease with which it can spread. However, when combined with seasonal flu viruses, which as everyone knows are super-airborne and easily spread, the effect is a potent, super-airbone, super deadly biological weapon. …. Spreading bird flu would create an instantaneous surge of demand for bird flu vaccines. The profits that vaccine companies such as Baxter International could reap out of such a panic are astronomical.
In addition, as we have previously reported, those that have a stake in the Tamiflu vaccine include top globalists and BIlderberg members like George Shultz, Lodewijk J.R. de Vink and former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
Authorities in both Europe and the U.S. have openly detailed plans for martial law, quarantine and internment should a bird flu pandemic occur.
The other motivation, as we have exhaustively documented on this website for years, is the fact that elites throughout history have openly stated that they want to see a world population reduction of around 80 per cent. Shocking stories like this take the plausibility of that narrative out of the realms of conspiracy theory and into the dangerous reality of conspiracy fact. ….. This is not the first time that vaccine companies have been caught distributing vaccines contaminated with deadly viruses. In 2006 it was revealed that Bayer Corporation had discovered that their injection drug, which was used by hemophiliacs, was contaminated with the HIV virus. Internal documents prove that after they positively knew that the drug was contaminated, they took it off the U.S. market only to dump it on the European, Asian and Latin American markets, knowingly exposing thousands, most of them children, to the live HIV virus. Government officials in France went to prison for allowing the drug to be distributed. The documents show that the FDA colluded with Bayer to cover-up the scandal and allowed the deadly drug to be distributed globally. No Bayer executives ever faced arrest or prosecution in the United States.
Oh, Juan, if you want some pulled pork and some ribs, you have to meet my brother. He competes in huge BBQ contests and places in the top 10 or 20. He has several first place awards. And his recipe for baked beans will make you weep. He is an artist. Come to KC, darlin', we'll fix you up!
I've been waiting for days for the entire programme to be up on Youtube as it was shown a few days ago over here as part of another “ Conspiracy Files“ prog. To no avail thus far. Hopefully it will be up soon. It’s probably still available on BBC I- Player but only those in the UK can view TV progs ( as opposed to listening to certain radio progs) via Iplayer…. hence the reliance on Youtube.
I watched it the other night and every seemingly plausible point put by the conspiracy brigades ---grasped with relish and disdain for truth to help further their infantile agenda…. was clearly shown to be bollocks.
And, of course, that sad sack Doctor from Birmingham Mosque, his " victim" flock of male Muslims ( taken in hook line and sinker by that other sad sack " Jesus Christ" AKA as maker of the " Ripple Effect" vid) eager no doubt to tell “ their“ women and children the “ truth“, egged on by the stupid Gosling and other loons ---with even a clip of that arch loon fundamentalist, idiot Alex Jones spouting his ego obsessed fanatical presence into the debate.
Lo and behold, though, search the internet and thousands and thousands seem to be taken in by the stupid conspiracy with barely anyone not otherwise convinced.
At one point my feeling of pity and bemusement turned into real scorn and contempt for many of the stupid people shown in the BBC film. Especially angry when one of the lady victims of the bombing the Islamic fanatics planned and executed revealed she’s now a victim of these internet based conspiracy loons. She’s now a “ Nazi, Zionist, Islamophobic, inhumane, sheep”, or some such thing, rather than some unlucky woman who was once on her way to work but just happened to cross paths with “ the work of Allah”, ho hum.
It’s an entirely different matter to take the piss out of the BBC for so many things ( which I’m not averse to doing) but that’s a criticism of their general take and stances on various multiculti pov’s. That’s perfectly legitimate. I don’t think it /they are part of some demonic, conspiratorial Government aligned plan to cover up the slaughter of UK citizens to ultimately further the attack on Muslim’s in the UK and throughout the world. It’s not a question of me being a duped “ sheep” of the establishment either. Duh.
Really, I sometimes despair at the state of people’s frenzied, paranoid states of mind. I can barely be bothered to counter their drivel and shit. I should do but I can no longer be arsed.
There’s critical thinking along with healthy scepticism and there’s stupid, ever increasing crazy conspiratorial insanity. Two entirely different things.
It dawned on me! Now I know why my son loves eating all these expensive cheeses. Brainwashed at an early age. He I'm sure he still believes the moon is made of Camembert.
Thanks Dermot and Hilltop - I used to watch W&G for hours when my son was little. Nice memories. What a creativity! Don't you think it's also a parody on men and expensive toys?
One known to be real - at the 50's of the 20's century: Israel tried to blacken the Egyptian new regime by bomb attacks in Cairo on American targets, made by a group of local Jews.f They were Caught, 2 of them were executed and the 6 were arrested. This Action caused a lot of political turmoil in Israel for decades on, trying to find out who was responsible.
Last night I watched the movie about the murder of Aldo Moro, the Italian Prime Minister, which raises more than a suspicion that The Italian Secret Service and the CIA were behind it. Five moons square.
buying into the CRAZY idea promulgated by a loon who thinks he's the messiah that 7/7 was the act of the British government and Mossad. 
