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Lindsay Field and Geoff Bridgford of One Foundation spring to mind
Lindsay Field was one of the most important singer/songwriters in Prem Rawat's cultsLindsay Field was one of the most important singer/songwriters involved in Prem Rawat's Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital cults. He was a talented song-writer and ballad singer. I recall him singing in satsang meetings in Australia as early as 1973. I have used as evidence of these claims that he wrote songs, sang and recorded them on at least 12 professionally recorded and distributed audio tapes and CDs for sale as part of One Foundation. He performed in or had his songs used on the soundtracks of at least 6 videos or DVDs publicly distributed by Rawat's organisations. These were all productions of organisations and companies associated with Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji aka Maharaji. - Tapes, CDs
- 1978 SLT 007 ONLY ONE LOVE
- 1978 SLT 008 BRAND NEW LOVE
- 1979 SLT 009 TEACH ME DEVOTION
- 1979 SLT 010 I LOVE YOU
- 1980 POWER OF LOVE
- 1980 YOU ARE MY EVERYTHING
- 1981 FIRE IN MY HEART
- SLT 020 1983 paradise
- 1987 SELECTED LISTENING '87
- 1989 ENCORE
- 1994 YOU ARE MY INSPIRATION
- 1995 Downpour
- 1999 LOVIN' TIMES
- 2001 HEARTFELT
- 2001 THANK YOU
- Videos, DVDs
- 1974 POWER OF LOVE
- 1976 KEEP ON TRUCKIN'
- 1977 BIRTHDAY FILM
- 1978 THE GREATEST MAGICIAN
- 1979 LINGFIELD GURU PUJA
- 1979 GURU PUJA '79
- 1979 HANS JAYANTI '79
- 1980 HOLI
- 1980 YOU ARE MY SAVIOR
- 1980 GURU PUJA
- 1989 WINDOWS IN TIME
For 20 years Prem Rawat claimed he was the Incarnation of God, the Perfect Master and Lord of the Universe who demanded worship. He claimed He could bring World Peace and peace and bliss in the hearts of His followers through His Divine Grace if they obeyed him and surrendered to Him. Lindsay Field's lyrics reflected and reiterated his Master's teachings and theology in simpler form.
Field's role was not insignificant and without it being written about no understanding of Rawat's career is really possible. The lyrics of these songs, delivered with passion and intensity helped to overcome the fact that Rawat was a very unnattractive boy/man and a very poor speaker. His teachings were reflected in song in short, rhyming phrases. One of the main reasons (IMHO) that Rawat kept a core of devoted followers was his songs and the songs of few other "premies." He was often mentioned in Divine Light Mission magazines as an example, presumably, of good premiehood. (Mr and Mrs Lindsay and Kim Field on left of photo on right. All 3 marriages in the household ended in divorce as did most of the marriages made in Divine Light Mission) Surdas the Gardener (lyrics by M. McDonald)
White fingers made of frost reach across the lake, One Lotus blooms alone just for the Master's sake, Surdas the gardener, his mind concerned with gold, Plucks the sacred flower and his life is bought and sold
In the palace and the marketplace the word has gone around, The Master of the Universe has flown into town, The merchants and the king raise their bidding by the hour, As they argue with Surdas for the purchase of that flower Wind of Grace
Some people say I've grown too distant, I really see I've got no choice, Cause every time I turn to listen, I only hear Your Golden Voice
I'm just a sailor on Your Ocean of Mercy, The Wind of Grace is in my sail, Without Your Love my heart grows thirsty, And with Your Love I cannot fail
Some people feel I've been led astray, Being ordered from above, They even think I'll finally turn away, But where I turn I find Your love The Greatest Magician
What kind of wonder are You? How did You make the sun to shine? In the middle of the darkest night, You showed me such a beautiful light, Melting all the ice around this heart of mine
I get so lost in illusion, You stand so high above it all, I only want to hold onto feast my eyes on You, Cause everything You do to me is a miracle, And every heart that You touch turns to gold, Whisper Your magic Word and a life unfolds Hold Me Closer
You are the answer to my only prayer, You are the Master from above, I was so lonely til You came along, With the wonder of Your love
I don't know how I ever met You so, You are my Light, my destiny, Oh Maharaji I love You so You mean everything to me
I want this world to see Your radiant face, It brings sweet gladness to my heart, I know I'll always always feel Your Grace, If we're never apart His Radiant Face
 When Rawat encouraged a more Indian and devotional from of worship in the 1980s, Field responded with new, really intense songs:Leaving This World
For the fulfillment of your senses You are seeking wealth and pleasures, When death comes to claim you You must leave all your worldly treasures
Nothing can you carry away, This is the River of Satsang, So let you dive so deep
If you miss this opportunity, Then one day you will weep, And none will wipe your tears away, So love the Feet of Satguru
Oh premies, day and night, He will grant you perfect freedom, From darkness into light, Bondage will be cut away
Save Me
Oh Guru Maharaj Ji, You are All Powerful, There is nothing you can't do, I know that you can save me, Oh let me go too
So I pray as humbly as I can, If you find it in your heart, Find it in your mercy, In your compassion, To save me, Please would you? Meditating on Your Love
I know, I managed to walk away from you, Never know what drove me to, In a moment I'm miles away, Lost in the wild blue yonder
Is it any wonder Why you try with all your might Just to keep me in your sight Cause you know what's right for me
All through the day, all through the night, Meditating on your love Makes life complete, Meditating on your love Makes life so sweet
I'm riding on the rhythm of I love you, This is no place on earth That you're taking me to
The heaven in your heart Puts me right where you are Traders Of The Holy Name
We are traders of the Holy Name, We are traders of the Holy Name
No worldly market can hope to stop us, We trade without fear and shame
The precious jewel produced within, They fill our treasury like rain
The source of all is Guru Maharaj Ji, He is the giver of the Holy Name After Rawat demanded all materials demonstrating Indian and devotional forms of worship be destroyed and kept secret and the ashrams closed Field's committment seems to have lessened. I can find very little mention of him after 1983. He sang at the Festival of Knowledge in Brussels in 1989. He was used as a shill for Rawat in a Vanity Publishing one-off magazine, Living Now which was supposedly Australia's wholistic publication for your body, mind & soul: "Singer/Producer Lindsay Field of Hawthorne East says he has found a lot of inner contentment in his discovery of the experience that Maharaji addresses. "What I enjoy most in my life is feeling that I am a happy participant in a journey towards greater love and happiness," he says. "Finding the peace within me that Maharaji talks about helps me do that."
He has had a long and successful career in MOR music in Australia as a backup singer, producer and vocal coach.
There was one song that Field and One Foundation recorded and sang more than any others. Ever Rawat's followers who could barely manage a tune sang it. Rawat demanded that his followers sing and mean it! "Your commitment, that's, you know, that's basically what I have to say nothing new probably to what I said at the last satsang or last to last satsang or last to last satsang. You know. In essence, what I'm trying to say is that when you get up and say "Bhole Satguru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai" mean it! Not just say it because uh 9,000 other people are saying so, so you say it too. You know. And when you sing Arti, mean it." Rawat has continually demanded worship from his followers. Arti is the song of devotion and worship that was sung daily in the ashrams and at DLM meetings. "Bhole (Shri) Satguru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai" was chanted in peak moments of group excitement akin to the "Heil Hitler" chant of the Nazis. Arti Jai Gurudev Maharaj Ji
Your glory fills the world
Protector of the weary and the weak
You bring the death of attachment
You bring the mind true detachment
Save us from the ocean deep
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev
Creator, Preserver, Destroyer
Bow their heads and pray to You
All bow and pray to You
Scriptures sing Your glory
Heavenly hosts sing Your praises
Your virtues are ever true
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Chanting, fasting, charity, austerity
never bring you knowledge of the soul
will never reveal your soul
without the grace of satguru
without the Knowledge of Satguru
rites and rituals never reach the goal
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev In the river of bondage to maya
All are swept out to sea
All are sinking in the depths of the sea
Guru's boat is the holy name
Guru's ship is the holy word
In seconds he has set us free
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev In the river of bondage to maya
All are swept out to sea
All are sinking in the depths of the sea
Guru's boat is the holy name
Guru's ship is the holy word
In seconds he has set us free
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Anger, desire, attachments
Rob us of eternal life
Take away our heavenly life
Satguru gives us true Knowledge
Satguru is eternal Knowledge
The sword that kills our problem life
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev  Religions harp their own glories
Call to follow their own path
Welcome me to follow their own way
The essence of all was revealed
The seed of all was revealed
I walk on the true way today
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev
Nectar from Satguru's feet is
Holy and it cleans us of our sins
So sacred in cleaning us of sin
When he speaks, darkness flies away
When he speaks, darkness cannot stay
Doubts removed, new life then begins
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Mine, Thine, Wealth, Health
Give them to the lotus feet of love
Give them to the lotus feet of the Lord
Give yourself to Satguru
Sacrifice yourself to Satguru
Be united with the blissful Truth
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Bible, Gita, the Koran
Sing the glory of Your Name
They all sing the glory of Your Name
Angels sing Your great glory
Heavenly hosts sing Your praises
They find no end to Your fame
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Desires have robbed me and left me
Trapped in the darkness of the night
Yes, they've trapped me in the darkness of the night
Guru gives holy Name and Light
Guru gives Holy Name and Sight
Cross the ocean by His Love and Light
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev  "Many past forms you have taken
Now we have come in your control
Again You have come to save the soul
In this time of darkness
To lead Your devotees from darkness
You have come as Hansa the pure soul
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev
Come to the shelter of Guru's grace
Come with your heart and your soul
Bring Him your heart and your soul
Cross the worldly ocean
Cross it by your devotion
And attain the supreme goal
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev Jai Gurudev Maharaj Ji
Your glory fills the world
Protector of the weary and the weak
You bring the death of attachment
You bring the mind true detachment
Save us from the ocean deep
Jai Dev, Jai Satgurudev You are my mother, and You are my father;
You are my brother, and You are my friend.
You are riches, You are wisdom;
You are my all, my Lord, to me.
You are my all, You are my all;
You are my all, my Lord, to me. Guru Maharaj Ji, my life is within You;
From You I was born, and to You now I go.
Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless;
This heart of mine aches to be one with You.
Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless;
This heart of mine aches to be one with You. Wherever I look your face is before me;
Your golden Love melts all my troubles away.
I give You my heart, for in You it will mellow;
Maharaj Ji, my Lord, my life is Your play.
I give You my heart, for in You it will mellow;
Maharaj Ji, my Lord. my life is Your play. Oh, wondrous lord, my Guru Maharaj Ji,
Your Grace is a river that flows on and on.
You fill my heart with Your Love overflowing;
Please let me come home, find my rest at Your Feet.
You fill my heart with Your Love overflowing;
Please let me come home, find my rest at Your Feet. Our Lord is the maker of all things created;
He keeps them and brings them all home to His Word.
Our Lord's the Superior Power in person;
I bow down before such a wonderful Lord.
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Given that my perspective on Kim O'Leary equally applies to Lindsay Field, I chose to reply to your recent post in this new thread.
In response to one of my long paragraphs available below, you said:
"You are making my point of the importance of O'Leary and a few others for me and that is why I'm singling them out."
We might be looking at different points. Your point, as I understand it, is that as a consequence of their high profiles and visibility at the time, Kim and Lindsay played prominent and instrumental roles in promoting Prem Rawat and his teachings. Certainly no one can disagree with that. Consequently, they deserve to be singled out.
My point, that once again I failed to articulate clearly, is that Kim was doing her service to the best of her ability, no more and no less than any of the other thousands of sincere and dedicated premies commensurate with their talents and abilities. From the instructors to the accountants to the carpenters to the laborers who polished the wings of the 707 to a mirror finish to a certain lint picker and everyone in between, every dedicated premie contributed their best efforts to promote Prem Rawat and his teachings. Singing just happened to be what Kim had to offer and of course she would sing devotional songs.
My perspective is influenced by the fact that when I first began posting here, I was bitter and critical of premies in general. Someone kindly reminded me that the actions taken by sincere premies in furtherence of Prem Rawat were not their fault because they were under the influence of the cult and its leader, i.e., they were cult victims. Similarly, when I expressed remorse for the unethical things I did in the cult, others here kindly reminded me that for the same reasons, it wasn't my fault. I'm simply applying the same standards to Kim.
Consequently, I've tried to distinguish between the victims and their actions and those who are/were clearly complict in perpetrating a fraud. By complicit, I don't mean merely by their actions in the context of sincere devotional service or participation, but rather by engaging in cynical top-down control, exploitation and manipulation - the sycophantic inner circle honcho types.
I do not place kim in that category. She was sincere and not knowingly trying to decieve anyone. That's why I feel she doesn't deserve to be singled out, nor do I feel she deserves any of the consequences that may follow... no more and no less than any of the other thousands of sincere and dedicated premies commensurate with their talents and abilities. The only difference between her actions and my actions were scale, visibility and reach as a consequence of her happenstance service.
My suggestion would be to modify the pages to reflect One Foundation as a group and a cornerstone of the cult's music, perhaps naming but not singling-out any of its members. Then comment on the instrumental role the band and music in general played in the cult. Kim didn't act alone and I'm not aware of any instances where she spoke out publicly and defensively in response to criticism of Prem Rawat as other premies have done on this forum, Facebook and elsewhere.
Please correct me if I'm wrong - anyone - but as far as I know, all she's done is try to protect her image, reputation and work product as anyone in her position might try to do.
Modified by lakeshore at Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 18:25:07
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Hi Lakeshore,
That was going to be my initial post on this topic, so totally in synch with you on that. Then I googled Kim and got a bit confused on what to think of her. But it seems Lesley knows her personally.
The poster boy of predator in the Rawat cult is of course Jagdeo, but there are/were many others. Sometimes people start as victims and become predators later. Complicated topic on its own. Like where does Rennie Davis fit in?
But we victims were all amplifiers of the cult at some level. I brought a few people in. Fortunately they didn't stay long. One Foundation were in a position to be bigger amplifiers than most of us, but as you said, any of us would have done the same if given the chance.
Really like your suggestion too that the article be about One Foundation and not the people individually.
Modified by aunt bea at Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 03:50:48
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I didn't put my cult participation on my resume either. I did everything to hide that, as pretty much everyone did. Sometimes it is funny to see some of the instructors and CCs try to sort of use it as a qualification of sorts on their LI accounts without getting too specific.
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I just went and looked at the Wikipedia entry for Rennie Davis. He went from DLM to venture capitalist and lecturer on meditation and self awareness. His company was called Foundation for a new Humanity.
I think the thing is predators naturally are looking for victims to marry. they want someone who will be nice and look after them - someone who is loyal kind and trusting is easy to manipulate.
And so the generations pass.
The way I see things, I think it is still binary in nature. Insanely complex but still lots of little switches going one way or the other, some of them are bigger, like cheer leaders and have clusters of switches which support them and the whole things got really messy for sure but it is still binary, with one big switch labelled kindhearted or not.
Can a switch be switched. Can you wake up one day with blonde hair and the next day with brown hair and the following day with blonde again? well in a sense, yes if you went to the hairdresser.
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As I have stated probably too often, one of my big hobbies is neurobiology and the brain. But this aspect I don't know much about. I want to investigate it more. There is this tendency to talk about psychopaths as being neurodivergent, that they are born that way will always be that way, like trisomy. Even some people calling themselves psychopaths make that claim. My "feeling" is this isn't true. Or at least not in the sense that psychopaths are incapable of empathy or compassion.
We can start with Prem himself. Clearly his family and early childhood environment played a giant role in making him into what he has become. Even if that is not reversible it isn't inevitable.
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Neurobiology. I looked-up the definition. That's quite a hobby!! It sure beats A & E, working on D.
"We can start with Prem himself. Clearly his family and early childhood environment played a giant role in making him into what he has become."
Prem strikes me as an egregious example of what early childhood circumstances can spawn. Suffice it to say... enough said.
"Even if that is not reversible it isn't inevitable."
Thank you for that. Again, as others have said, not all of the abused go on to become abusers. To the contrary, some develop great care, concern and empathy for the plight of the abused. It begs the question... what are the mechanisms that trigger the different outcomes?
In Prem's case, it's hard for me not to suspect a generous element of conscious choice, which is another way of saying it was far from just the involuntary psychological effects of whatever those determining mechanisms/triggers may have been.
Anyway, that's too heavy for this early hour. On a lighter note, your post made me look-up the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. To my great relief, I took the quiz and didn't qualify for either. 
Modified by lakeshore at Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 04:05:36
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I remember our parents generation debating that one a lot. It took a tumble with the advances in scientific knowledge about genetics. As it should.
We have no trouble saying oh he inherited his nose from his father or even he's got the same quick temper as his father but when it comes to nice or nasty it's all back up for grabs. Why?
Do we really think people have a choice in that?
An element of the charm narcissistic people have is the 'broken wing' effect - like the birds who nest on the ground and the mother will shuffle along pretending to have a broken wing as a distraction to lead the predator away from her nest.
'Look at me, I'm so cute, I am just damaged by my upbringing', but it's a deliberately crafted distraction - while you are busy trying to bandage their wing you are not paying attention to what they are taking from you.
So yes, though I completely agree outcomes and behaviours are massively affected by circumstance, I think it helps to remember the person that is making sense of it all is always who they are.
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I have known at least three people like that. Not sure really if I can diagnose them, but all were very manipulative. One especially seemed like a kind of psychopath. And one thing I realised in retrospect is that they all very quickly talked about their messed up childhood. Inappropriately so I would say. So my cautionary tale is if someone starts very quickly to tell you about their bad childhood, be suspicious.
The one I can talk a bit about. She worked for me. First of all she was brilliant and incredibly charming. The big red flag for me was when she so easily lied about something when we were visiting a customer. It freaked me out really and it was totally unnecessary. I wouldn't have even realised it if she hadn't told me. She assumed I had picked up on it and was explaining why she did it.
She went on to create one after another of fake tech startups and promote herself with the most outlandish of credentials and titles. If you have seen the Netflix series about Anna Delvey, well that was pretty much her. She was scary but also really fun to hang around with. Just keep her out of your wallet.
So this was my first personal experience with this kind of sociopath fraudster. And yes she did rip me off a bit, but not so much. It has made me very wary since.
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I used to rent out my ground floor flat, and at one time during festival seasons I had every room in my house rented out and slept in the studio.
I did meet some nice people. I was particularly lucky in the first couple who came down from Brisbane for the Bluesfest and they gave me their thermal coffee plunger when they left.
And I was lucky in the first tenant I had in the flat. He was perfectly reasonable, he didn't mow the grass like he'd promised, but he did what he was good at - he got offcuts from his job as a council worker and built a handrail up the garden steps, did some terracing. He managed to cram his two teenage sons in there when he had them to stay but basically the time came when he had no real choice but to leave the coast and live where he could get somewhere big enough to accommodate them all once he had a girlfriend and her children wanting to stay over as well.
He was no saint. He was annoyed, reluctant, irritated and resentful. I got to feel it of course and it got to the point I wanted him to leave as soon as possible so I put the rent up.
I felt glad and relieved when he finally left. But I wasn't at any point scared of him. He was the first tenant so I was naive, but looking back and comparing them all, he does get the number one position as best tenant.
The only one with no red flags. Normal reasonable stable person. Dependable.
The scariest one, when he arrived oh he coughed so delicately and tapped his chest. He didn't have the deposit, just the two weeks rent and I was daft enough to go oh no problem we can catch up when you can and the next thing I know he has complained to the government Dept of Fair Trading, pretending that he gave me the money but I have not put it into a trust account. That attracts a $2000 fine.
It came with a long list of complaints and allegations, I was upset and wrote a long account covering all the complaints and then I sent it to my lawyer and let her deal with the Dept of Fair Trading - this was a good move and that was the end of his complaints but he knew what he was doing. He could threaten physical violence as much as he liked and I couldn't complain unless he actually hit me. The courts are that backed up that the only real way to legally remove him, ie get the police here in two weeks notice would be to sell the house, the new owner is entitled to vacant possession.
He left when he wanted to leave, he was going on a trip to check on his parents in South Africa. He was not fun to be around, I shook for 5 months so he gets the spot at the bottom of the list.
But he's had some competition.
I decided I was too old, it was time to retire and with quite a bit of help from a friend I got organised and applied for the pension. That's over a year ago now, so grateful for it. It's very relaxing here!
My cat Lily, would be so pleased if she were here. She was a very good companion. It was her who upped and led the way out of my previous home, across the garden and into the studio. When she was dying she used her last effort to point the finger at the tenants who were in the flat at the time, I scooped her up and she finished her time on the carpet in my studio here - I can't imagine what Darko would say if I rented out the flat again.
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We rented out the flat under the house to a young woman who would go on her daily morning bike ride from Burleigh to the end of Currumbin Valley and back but later complained that the negative electricity in the house was killing her.
There were some tenants my wife and I had earlier who were no trouble, they were premies.
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it's fascinating, getting older isn't it. it's like the picture looms up out of the corner of your eye.
I looked up the term trisomy - isn't that supposed to be quite unusual?
My feeling is well I have this specific memory that comes up I am in my 50's and looking into my father's eyes and he isn't just triumphant in getting what he wants, he cannot help but show it, he is feeling such pleasure. He can't hide it, he is enjoying causing hurt, his empathy was tuned that way.
Shocking as it was to see, heart-wrenching the circumstance, it was validation, it was peace for me. I didn't have to wonder if I could do anything different, he was what he was. And I think it was the same for my mum, harrowing but peace for her too.
We are all one in the spirit we sang in that cult - not true.
So there he is at the end of his life, being looked after very well by the nurses, and I walk into the room. His arms reached out to hug me. It wasn't a voluntary act. He was past being able to move his arms voluntarily, it was the underlying physical reality of his being. We might not be one in the spirit but we are cut from the same cloth.
One day at Amaroo, Rawat told the story of the red truck he saw in the store window, how he wanted it and his mother kept saying no but he ended up making her get it. It was supposed to be encouraging us to be persistent but it was a real story, real feelings, he was showing us what he was like and rather disturbingly, it was setting off a big red flag in me.
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"Maharaji Music" - Music Dedicated To Prem RawatFrom its creation in 1971, the Divine Light Mission had an important role for Prem Rawat's followers who are musicians. This role continued long after the organisation changed its name to "Élan Vital" in the early 1980s unto the 21st century's "Words Of Peace Global". Music is an important tool for reinforcing emotion, and to a large extent both mirrors, intensifies and sets the actual tone of Prem Rawat's followers' emotions. It is an important indicator of beliefs in the group and it's evolution reveals much that is not available from examination of the group's other publicly available material. It especially shows the extent of the worship of and devotion to Rawat as a divine figure and exposes the 21st century Élan Vital/WOPG revisionist history that Rawat attempted to remove the beliefs in his divinity as well as the Indian trappings of Divine Light mission in the 1970's. Even a cursory examination of the "Court Of Love" tape by "the Holy Jesters" SLT 018 released in early 1982 by Élan Communications shows that Indian style devotion was being openly promoted in the organisations even as the renaming of Divine Light Mission to Élan Vital was in progress and all public presentations of Rawat's divinity were ceased. To a certain extent the songs have echoed Rawat's message. In the early 1970's they were stridently triumphalist, Maharaji was the King of Kings bringing in the Millenium and you should receive this Knowledge before it's too late - but how can there be a too late if he's initiating the Millenium? Then after the disaster of Millenium '73 and the failure of propagation songs naturally became more circumspect but as no media publicity was wanted and the cassettes were sold only to a premie audience songs could still reflect the adoration and worship demanded by Guru Maharaj Ji. As songs were sung in satsang meetings by local amateur musicians, song books were printed and examples include Devotional Songs and song books of DLM/EV bhajans and here. This list of music tapes, CD and videos is not exhaustive though it's extensive and any further information and copies of media would be greatly appreciated. The high points of a premie's spiritual life are the large events where Rawat speaks. These invariably include music being performed. Rawat's speeches are mainly filler and repetition of his teachings. Listeners learn the changes in his current presentation and things he wants stressed but he is boring and definitely no orator. No-one goes home repeating sentences from his speech. They go home with song lyrics and tunes meming around inside their minds. Their youthful emotions and excitements are partly rekindled by hearing the Divine Light Mission golden oldies even if the lyrics are altered or 'Arti' is played as an instrumental. One of ironies of Rawatism is the continued singing of the song "Spread This Knowledge" after over 40 years of the failure of recruitment. Click Here to see how the Rawatism concepts and teachings were repeated and taught in the songs. There was virtually no group of premies anywhere who didn't have some local musicians playing devotional songs at the nightly satsang meetings. The most prominent bands and musicians included: The most prominent, influential and long lasting singer/songwriter involved in the Rawat's career was Kim O'Leary who performed with One Foundation during their incarnation and alone or with Geoff Bridgford for many years. She was finally replaced in the late 1990s by Rawat's daughter Daya Rawat whose voice is undistinguished but who has the family connection. Kim O'Leary's songs along with those of her former husband, Lindsay, have provided the emotional intensity that the short, obese Rawat with his screechy voice and poor command of English and boring delivery could not have inspired. These musicians, apart from Ms Rawat, have never received commensurate financial reward for the millions of dollars Rawat has received on the waves of devotion supplied by their music.
Maharaji's Teachings In SongThe Guru Puja 73 songbook is a perfect example of the songs played and sung in satsang meetings throughout the West. There's hardly a song in there I cannot sing along with and I did not attend satsang as often as I would have liked. It is a true reflection of premie understanding of the times or at least an indication of what they thought they should "experience." Popular romantic songs depend to some extent on repeating themes that while emotionally resonant are known to be untrue. No-one actually dies of lost love and there is more than one person with whom "true love" can be experienced. These skeptical ideas, undersandably enough, do not find their way into love songs. However many of the concepts that appear to be metaphor or hyperbole are meant to be taken literally in songs written by devotees of Prem Rawat to their Perfect Master who is God incarnate come to earth, "God in a Bod." Songs are also a good vehicle for promulgating those ideas that Rawat would find hard to repeat in public very often. These were the teachings meant for the dedicated followers not the 'new people' or the 'aspirants' who were considering involvement and were wooed by promises of easy bliss and God realization. Some of these concepts were so common and widely known that we hardly need to provide any evidence for songs for them. That the young Maharaji was considered to be God incarnate was a major claim and song titles such as Lord of the Universe, King of Kings, People Come to See Your Creator, Oh Perfect Lord, People Listen to the Message of the Lord, Creator of All, I Come To My Lord, Guru Is The Father were so straightforward that the lyrics were not required to know what the songs were saying. After the fiasco of Millenium '73 and Rawat's obvious fear of the press and his humiliation at being questioned without obsequity the didacticism and triumphalism of premie song lyrics began to lessen. **************** Under Construction ********** The energy keeping us alive
That's What's Keeping Us Alive The age of aquarius - Only the love of a devotee for Prem Rawat and the love of Prem Rawat for a devotee is real love, true love and perfect love
- You are my Perfect Master, perfect lover too - You Are My Perfect Master
- Bringing to me the perfect love to wash away my fears - How Can I Ever Stop Loving You
- All of my life was spent in hope for real love, Who would have ever thought it would end in You - Coming Home
- It's a real love that keep us together - Never Apart
- You're the only one, dear Master, You're the one that we need, Draw the veil away, true lover, Plant Your Holy seed.You Call To Us Oh Lord
- Spread this Knowledge to every land, To show them true love is here - Spread This Knowledge
- How beautiful are the Feet of Him, Who brings true love to the earth - How Beautiful Are The Feet Of Him
- Oh Maharaji what can I say? I just really love you, You've shown me true love's ways - Only One Love
- Truth, consciousness and bliss, Know true love is here - Truth, Consciosuness and Bliss
- You're the only one that I can really love, You're the only one I know I can depend upon, I can't live without you - You're The Only One
- Life without Prem Rawat as your Lord and Master is shit
- Prem Rawat is going to be the Lord of Earth
- The middle of the summer of 71, Few of us knew that the Lord had really come, But The Truth can't remain a secret for too long, Cause He's gonna turn the whole world on - Oh Lord We've Been Waiting So Long
- Life is full of misery
- All our lives, we've been trying, To get it on our own way, But each time we end up crying, With no words left to say - onefoundation/onefoundation.html#pol Power Of Love
- Life is a search for Maharaji and His Love
- The pictures and the dreams of all the life that lies behind me, Tell a story of an endless search for You
- Receive this Knowledge before it's too late
- Know Him While You Can
- Premies are helpless without Prem Rawat's divine Grace
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"Please correct me if I'm wrong - anyone - but as far as I know, all she's done is try to protect her image, reputation and work product as anyone in her position might try to do."
But when she sees that I have written about her role, as I have scores of other premie musicians - Maharaji Music (prem-rawat-bio.org) - she threatens me with law suits unlike any of the other musicians who can read about themselves as pawns of Rawat if they wish and have never complained. I did get a complaint when I said Tim Hain was the sort of player I might go to see if he was playing in a local bar, from somebody else who said I was putting hm down.
IMHO O'Leary was the single most important voice and the most prolific and long-time voice, so that's why she gets the most attention. Musically I prefer Alan Thomas but his last contribution was 1974
and 12 or so other pages on premie musicians
I'm not saying she was complicit in any underhanded dealings or exploitation. "deserves" has nothing to do with it. Dettmers, Donner, Mishler, Charanand, Satpal, Mrs Rawat, the children all get written about because of their public importance in the Rawati$m story. There's 4,800 other pages that don't mention her and 21,500 images on the site not of her.
That's what you write about, the important, public factors. I'm sure there's hundreds of unnamed, unknown premies who have worked for 50 years for Rawat. They are not public figures.
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I enjoyed reading that page. Good for you. omg some of those lyrics!!!
I like Lakeshores idea of combining Kim into this page and making it about One Foundation.
Lindsay's voice was just as good as Kims'.
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You are quite right that these sort of songs were important drivers of the emotional highs of the megacult years. A big part in how it all worked to draw and glue people in.
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Geoff Bridgford was one of the most important singer/songwriters in Prem Rawat's cultsGeoff Bridgford was one of the most important singer/songwriters involved in Prem Rawat's Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital cults. He was a talented song-writer and ballad singer. I have used as evidence of these claims that he wrote songs, sang and recorded them on at least 13 professionally recorded and distributed audio tapes and CDs for sale as part of One Foundation and Blue Aquarius. He performed in or had his songs used on the soundtracks of at least 8 videos or DVDs publicly distributed by Rawat's organisations. These were all productions of organisations and companies associated with Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj Ji aka Maharaji. His two songs on the Blue Aquarius album, "God Is Love" and "At the Feet of the Master" were probably the most popular and most played songs in the early, growing Divine Light Mission. "At the Feet of the Master" was the emotional soundtrack to the darshan scenes in the "Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji" film that toured universities in the USA providing a large number of young people eager to learn more about Guru Maharaj Ji. It had an extraordinary impact in the intense, devotional tone of 1970s satsang meetings, at least in Australia. He also wrote and sang "The Power of Love" an extremely popular and often played uptempo rock song. No understanding of Rawat's career is really possible without taking into consideration the impact Bridgford, O'Leary (his long-time partner) and a handful of other singer/songwriters had on Rawat's success. I think his early songs "At the Feet of the Master," and "God Is Love" had an impact on Rawat's career that cannot be overstated. "At the Feet of the Master" provided a spurious spiritual link to the then respected sage Krishnamurti who had quite a lot in common with Rawat * - TAPES, CDs
- BLUE AQUARIUS
- 1978 SLT 007 ONLY ONE LOVE
- 1978 SLT 008 BRAND NEW LOVE
- 1979 SLT 009 TEACH ME DEVOTION
- 1979 SLT 010 I LOVE YOU
- 1980 POWER OF LOVE
- 1980 YOU ARE MY EVERYTHING
- 1981 FIRE IN MY HEART
- SLT 020 1983 paradise
- 1987 SELECTED LISTENING '87
- 1989 ENCORE
- 1994 YOU ARE MY INSPIRATION
- 1995 Downpour
- 1999 LOVIN' TIMES
- 1999 EVERSOUND EXPRESSIONS
- 2001 HEARTFELT
- 2001 THANK YOU
- Films, Videos, DVDs
- 1973 WHO IS GURU MAHARAJ JI?
- 1974 LORD OF THE UNIVERSE, TVTV documentary
- 1974 POWER OF LOVE
- 1976 KEEP ON TRUCKIN'
- 1977 BIRTHDAY FILM
- 1978 THE GREATEST MAGICIAN
- 1979 LINGFIELD GURU PUJA
- 1979 GURU PUJA '79
- 1979 HANS JAYANTI '79
- 1980 HOLI
- 1980 YOU ARE MY SAVIOR
- 1980 GURU PUJA
- 1981 EYES OF FAITH
- 1981 MESSAGE OF THE HEART
- 1988 CONTACT
- 1989 WINDOWS IN TIME
- 1990 FESTIVAL OF KNOWLEDGE
- 1994 BEGGAR
- 1996 BOUNDLESS
For 20 years Prem Rawat claimed he was the Incarnation of God, the Perfect Master and Lord of the Universe who demanded worship. He claimed He could bring World Peace and peace and bliss in the hearts of His followers through His Divine Grace if they obeyed him and surrendered to Him. Geoff Bridgford's involvement began very early as he was the drummer and a lead singer in Blue Aquarius Big Band whose band-leader was none other than the God of Music or so he believed at the time. He has a thin voice with limited range but knows how that use it to best advantage. His songs had a lighter feel and simpler lyrics than those of Kim O'Leary or Lindsay Field. While they were musically lighter, the lyrics could be just as abject as O'Leary's. It's intuitive to think that only people with emotional problems join a cult like Rawat's but I suspect that many premies were "taught" that their former lives had been bereft of meaning and real love, Rawat's message that the songs repeat. The young guru said this many times and I noticed that it wa a common theme amongst premies when I first started to attend satsang. I suspect many new premies picked up the idea from their more "experienced" premies whjo were already socialised in satsang. At the Feet of the Master
Waiting the word of the Master, Watching the Hidden Light
Listening to catch His Orders, In the very midst of the fight
At the Feet of the Master Well you can really let it go Let it flow Cause we're all love (repeat) In the 2005 Prem Rawat Foundation DVD, On the Road with Maharaji, there is scene in which Daya Rawat tries to sing a Divine Light Mission golden oldie, the Geoff Bridgford / Blue Aquarius classic, At the Feet of the Master. The crowd of People with Knowledge in their 50s by 2005 goes wild thinking they're young again: "We're all love, we're all love, we're all love, love, love, by your Grace." Unfortunately Daya is no Kim O'Leary and can't manage the ascending high notes on "love, love love" in the chorus and she has to go back down and so it loses that inpiring upbeat ending and settles like a collapsed soufflé, just as Prem Rawat's Mission to bring love and peace to the world has crashed like a hot air balloon stuffed with millions of dollars of the crowd's donations. Without Your Love
Where would I be? And how could I see? I'd be an ocean without water, A flower without sun, A poet without feeling, A singer without a song
Yeah, where would I be? And how could I see? A story without an end, A heart that's always broken, A man without a friend
Where would I be? And how could I see? Without your love, Without your love, Without your love, Without your love Your Love has No Seasons
Your Love has no seasons no reasons or no rhyme, Your love is the answer and it has been all the time, Your love is the key that's opened my heart's door
I want to let You love me in every way, I feel so happy when my life is Your play, I'd like to see You and let You be Yourself, I need to be with You cause there's nobody else Within Your Love
You have unlocked every door And filled my empty rooms with more That I have ever hoped for
The gifts of love they fill my soul, An empty heart is now made whole
Where there was darkness there is light And even if I try I could not describe
The love you have brought inside my life, A mirror and a friend Bridgford's light style and breathy vocals didn't suit the bhajan style and I can't recall him singing any bhajan-ish songs though he was part of the band thoughout those years, singing harmony and doing percussion. When Rawat demanded all materials demonstrating Indian and devotional forms of worship be destroyed and kept secret,
Bridgford responded with new songs that repeated the messages of worship and need but in a light and easy yin to O'Leary's intense yang:
Where Would I Be?
Where would I be? And how could I see? I'd be an ocean without water, A flower without sun, A poet without feeling, A singer without a song
I'd be journey without meaning, A story without an end, A heart that's always broken, A man without a friend
Without your love, Without your love, Without your love, Without your love Living Jewel Of Inspiration
Living jewel of inspiration, The beauty of appreciation, Living jewel of evolution, Please accept my devotion
Ocean of love and compassion Please accept my devotion, You are the sun, you are the ocean, Please accept my devotion
I found you in my heart, I found you in the ocean, Please accept my devotion, Please accept my devotion Easy To Love
No green hills faraway, No make believe, No hide and seek, No in the sun
No wait and see, No complications, You've got animation; A laughing love
It's easy to love, easy to love Born For This
On a ringside seat, Sitting on a heartbeat; Riding the pulse of harmony, Into the heart of beauty
Born for this, Gentle fusion, Born for this, Soft diffusion
Born for this, It's all I need, It's about the heart Of course, all the people who'd been listening to his songs for years knew exactly what the subtext was and who the songs weere beseeching. He wrote songs that would move and inspire the existing followers and aid Rawat's ongoing wish to attract new recruits to his cult, by stealth. Bridgford knew this just as all long-term "premies" or People With Knowledge as they call themselves do. Bridgford's short musical biography is available upon many music web sites but his time as a musician for Maharaji is never mentioned. Many musicians have made embarrassing mistakes in their lives and in this age when public confessions are nearly de rigeur for artists it seems that, despite this, the Guru Maharaji - Maharaji - Prem Rawat musical merry-go-round is something Bridgford is determined to hide.
Prem Rawat and Krishnamurti - a ComparisonThey were both chosen as boys to be God. One by his violent father and one by a notorious paedophile. They both went along for the ride. Rawat's mother gave him no choice and for the young 'Alcyone' it was better then starvation. They had no interest in "spirituality." They both enjoyed expensive bespoke clothing and fast cars and hated school. They both escaped from domineering older, women as soon as they could. K. loved golf and Rawat hated any exercise. K. was tall, slim and handsome, Rawat was short, dumpy and ugly. They both had long-term mistresses. They both had to keep with the guru shtick to provide funds for their extravagant tastes though K.'s tastes were simple and refined and Rawat's were obvious and vulgar. K. achieved a certain respect as a sage no-one could understand and Rawat is still trying to buy respect with PR spin.
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As I think many others would agree, I don't like your body shaming at the end. That ruined this article for me. But I want to say that otherwise I loved this and really enjoyed reading it. You could have been a music critic. I especially love your review of Daya singing "At the Feet of the Master." I didn't know she even did that. It is great that you are documenting all of this.
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Body Shaming? Do you mean this: "K. was tall, slim and handsome, Rawat was short, dumpy and ugly." That is a statement of fact that anyone of thousands of photos can demonstrate. Krishnamurti was remarkably handsome as is George Clooney. That's life. I'm fat and ugly. Have I body shamed myself now?
I'm just glad you read the whole article and won't forget it now.
Anyway I actually wanted to post about a different kind of Rawati$m music. Those hazy, crazy days of 1972 and 73. It seems that any premie with a guitar just couldn't help exploding in hippy, dippy, naive, happy, sappy songs about their wonderful glorious new life in the sunshine and rainbows that their Lord and Creator and father was gracing themwith.
Early U.S. Premie MusicPretty well anyone who could play some chords and hold a tune could sing at their local satsang meetings but it took more musical talent to have a tape recorded and sold by Divine Light Mission. The musicianship may have been more sophisticated but the early lyrics were simple, apparently certain in their beliefs though it is extremely likely that most of these musicians no longer believe that Prem Rawat is God come down to earth. The Philadelphia Bliss Band had what sounds like a virtuoso klezmer clarinet player which gave them a unique sound. Back in August (1973) premie musicians from all over America were called to Los Angeles to record an album. The musicians, numbering 23 in all, came from a variety of bands. Guru Maharaj Ji decided that the album should be called "Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?" For a number of reasons, however, the record encountered difficulties and eventually Bhole Ji called the project off. At this point seven of the band left to go on tour with Guru Maharaj Ji, who decided to call the group The Apostles. After the tour The Apostles went down to Houston to rejoin some of the original band, a few of whom had been spirited off into Blue Aquarius. Soon afterwards four members decided that they wanted to play acoustic music and so split to form the Bliss Band.
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I've always read your posts expectantly hoping to learn something. I am overtly conservative in many of my views, much has evolved in our culture spreading in memes from the USA that I have not accepted. If I think its bullshit I really don't care if it is the new way everything must be.
I am aware that such a thing as accusations of body-shaming and fat-shaming exist but are they really more shocking and denigrating and unacceptable than claiming someone is a psychopath?
I believe Rawat's childhood obesity had a significant effect on him. It doesn't take much insight to see that the venom with which he spoke of school sports, jogging and all other physical activities comes from resentment and bitterness. How sweet it must have been to have all these young, tall, slim, beautiful people worshipping him. What a delicious revenge.
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You're measuring being called fat against being called a psychopath.
A psychopath is called out because of their harmful actions which is a warning to others and a (possibly futile) attempt to make them recognise the harm they're doing and stop their abuse.
Calling someone fat, though it may be a matter of fact, is useless. Whether the cause is poor diet, genetics, sedentary lifestyle - it's just the way they are and unless you're their doctor and being asked for advice, there's nothing worth saying about it. Putting on weight does not equate to moral decline.
The chubby kid who is useless at sports - is that really any reason to denigrate them? Sure, kids can be cruel, and I expect young Prem got his share of that, but some of us grow out of it. Sticking the label on yourself and calling yourself fat and ugly doesn't give you a carte blanche to sticking it on anyone else. That in itself is ugly.
Apart from that, thanks for all the work you've put into documenting the cult.
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I completely agree. In the 1970s the press mentioned him being chubby in every article. That was the world then - and shaming doesn’t make people deal with weight issues- it makes weight problems worse.
In today’s world mocking someone with a weight problem is bad form, makes outsiders see criticisms as less serious because the folks criticising are doing something considered to be rude and tacky by the rest of the world. I would like to see all the fat stuff end. Whether or not one is fat doesn’t make it ok to mock others who are fat. Press is looking and I know for a fact the fat jokes have made today’s journalists question the validity of the the rest of an article. That’s the real shame.
I think discussing whether or not he is a psychopath is much more relevant to a cult leader than a weight problem.
(Yes, we used to worship his “perfect” golden form. But we need to knock it off with the fat jokes; he’s lost quite a lot of weight and doesn’t look so healthy anyway)
Modified by Susan at Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 06:54:09
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"fat jokes have made today’s journalists question the validity of the the rest of an article"
Great news! There are no fat jokes on prem-rawat-bio unless Rawat himself made them. Its hard to use search to find jokes, maybe I should use AI, "AI find me all of Rawat's jokes" but Rawat has described himself using the dreaded three letter word: "Because then he would have been really looking at Guru Maharaj Ji as a
part of this world, which is what we a lot of times try to do! We try to
see Guru Maharaj Ji as just a superficial thing, try to
see Guru Maharaj Ji as just an unreality, try to see Guru Maharaj Ji as
one of us. Big fat tummy. Five-foot-two. Stocky. No?" I could use f*t to try to lessen the horror a journalist might feel on reading an article on the bio site
The Oxford dictionary says the first use of the word 'fat-shaming' came in 2009 so that could explain why I don't take it seriously, it was years before that when I took anything new in popular culture seriously.
If what you say is true about journalists then that also fits in with my skepticism about journalists. I am often rude though I prefer to call it blunt.
What an outlier I seem to have become. I just don't accept all the new rules about 'speech' and good form. I'm one of those people who used to be condemned as a far left radical for standing up for free speech who has become a far right fascist for standing up for free speech.
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You have done, a tremendous amount of work compiling your library of references on almost anything one wants to look up about the Prem Rawat and the cult and their many rebrandings. I am so grateful personally.
You did all the work to make the site and of course, the choices are yours it is your site.
I am not concerned a journalist would feel "horror" but I have heard that the first impression with some of the blunt jokes is to discount the objectivity of the site.
The likes of Ron Geaves on the other hand...
https://premrawat-maharaji.info/index7df0.html
What I think is what a shame if the bluntness makes the apologists appear more objective when you have the documentation!
https://culteducation.com/group/1933-integrity-and-suspicion-in-new-religious-movement-researchs.html
Modified by Susan at Mon, Apr 01, 2024, 09:13:36
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Hi Mr. Prembio®,
Sorry for the delayed response. In the meantime 13 and Susan have done a better job that I could have, but I think you deserve a direct response from me.
You have done such a mammoth job of documenting the cult and you have my absolute respect for doing that. Many others I am sure feel the same. So let me ask you this. What is your goal in your efforts? As I am sure you know, I get paid to help organisations communicate more effectively. One of the first things I ask is, “Who you do you want to reach and what to you want to achieve?”
Now you being you, you might answer, “I am doing it for myself or something along those lines.” But I am going to go out on a limb here and presume you would like to expose Rawat for the fraud that he is to the general public. That might include people who have started to get sucked in, friends or family of theirs, journalists doing research, perhaps others working in a professional capacity.
For all of those people, the facts stand on their own. They don’t need editorialising. The more you add your own interpretation, the more you diminish the efficacy of exposing Rawat. Put yourself on the other side of the equation. When you read some kind of article about something, which has more impact? A neutral article that relays the facts or when the author is trying to tell you how you should think about the topic?
I know you love to get creative in your writing and I do appreciate it. For example I loved this sentence: “Unfortunately Daya is no Kim O'Leary and can't manage the ascending high notes on "love, love love" in the chorus and she has to go back down and so it loses that inpiring upbeat ending and settles like a collapsed soufflé, just as Prem Rawat's Mission to bring love and peace to the world has crashed like a hot air balloon stuffed with millions of dollars of the crowd's donations.”
Well it is very long. You could try breaking it up a bit. But in this case the way you add some personal understanding is helpful. You are not really insulting Daya. Just saying her voice doesn’t have the range of Kim and as a result the song loses impact. The implied point is that the only reason Daya is singing this song in front of the multitudes and they lap it up is because of her semi-divine status. Otherwise it is just gross for her to sing to her father like that.
That being said, this level of detail is only understandable for someone who is or has been on the inside of the cult. I personally would be more economical so that you don’t lose people. Later on when you compare Rawat to Krishnamurti, you even lost me. It was too much of a tangent and I don’t know anything about that other guy.
But I know that is what you like to do and I think it is even fun for you. So let’s get to the sentence that started this whole discussion: “… Rawat was short, dumpy and ugly.” Why? What does this add? How does this help expose Rawat? It is just a cheap shot.
To say that you come from an older generation and can’t relate to all these modern sensitivities seems like an excuse. Yes, when we grew up it was common to make fun of overweight kids and often the teachers just turned the other way and ignored it. Some of those kids grew up very traumatised. Is it a bad thing that at least in this area modern society is trying to be more compassionate? It isn’t censorship to avoid doing that. It is just not being a mean and bullying school kid.
In the title of your post you write: “Fraud, Liar, Cheat, Abuser, Psychopath but not Fat?” Do you honestly not see the difference there? Is being fat to you equally condemnable as being an abuser?
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I respect you, I agree with most of your posts that I have read and have learnt for you.
But I am going to go out on a limb here and presume you would like to expose Rawat for the fraud that he is to the general public.
That's a mighty short branch you're going out on but I'm adding my editorialising anyway but I am happy to provide the entire html code and all the images to anyone who can then remove my offensive writing and put up a modern, clean and wholesome prem rawat bio site that will not melt any snowflakes.
Rawt is boring and mean-spirited and reading his stuff, transcribing, ocr-ing, checking, etc bores me and makes me feel unclean. The extras are there to keep me actually collecting and posting the straightforward data and I write those long, multi clause sentences because I like long convoluted sentences.
I'm pretty sure that far more people knew who Krishnamurti was than Guru Maharaj Ji/Rawat is so maybe that mention might attract an extra look. I'm not providing my conservatism as an excuse, only as a reason and I believe that if anyone deserves cheap shots, it is Rattso Rawat.
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I will let you in on a secret. At agencies there is a lot of internal black humour to help us cope with our crazy clients. Because we can't insult them publicly like you do. Still, we don't make fat jokes. A lot of other things, but not that. When I was younger and worked at other people's agencies, there was quite some shit like that though, also misogyny and harassment. Didn't like it then and never will.
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There aren't actually any fat jokes but I will search and find any offhand references to Rawat being fat and only leave mentions of his overweight with reasoned discussion of the failure of his" realisation" of "Knowledge" relating to his health and physical fitness.
Doesn't popular and elite culture now promote health and fitness as primary life goals? Its a cliche that now rich people are thin and poor people are f*t. There are large multi-national companies that exist make money helping people lose weight and the Holy Grail of Big Pharma is a drug that will cause weight-loss without people eating less and governments spend great amounts of money trying to promote weight-loss as the hospitals are full of people with chronic ill-health caused by being over-weight and yet you can no longer describe someone as f*t without causing offense.
Could it be because a majority of people in some wealthy cultures are already "over-weight?" Personally I think its wonderful that finally billions of people can afford to eat as much as they want and don't have to work themselves to death. It was a long time coming.
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I think we found common ground.
I know you are just saying that other stuff just to say it, but obviously there is a difference between addressing the potential health problems of being overweight with ridiculing someone for it.
It does seem to be approaching a new normal in some places though. This is a slightly different issue I think. In the past, when you and I were young'uns, overweight people were highly ridiculed and at the same time standards of beauty for women at least were extremely rigid. Women all had to be perfectly thin or looked down upon. So it is progress that women don't live under that same level of pressure anymore and society is more accepting of diverse body types. The same is true for men as well, but they had more leeway. There was this notion that the wife had to at least be less overweight than her husband. To the extent that this has changed I hope you can agree that this is all good and not just those damn newfangled ideas ruining everything for us seniors.
Nevertheless being above a certain weight category does increase your risk for lots of diseases as we all know. You can decide to accept that as part of having a good life or not. I think people should do what they want, but then should not regret those choices when the piper comes for payment.
At the same time it is really important to recognise that it is not necessarily a choice to be overweight or have unhealthy habits and we shouldn't condemn people for it: "Well he smoked all his life what does he expect." People for all kinds of reasons end up going down wrong paths without making a conscious choice to do so as well.
Like joining a cult for example. It would be interesting to do a survey among us ex-followers to ask how many of us had poor relationships with our fathers. It seems like a lot did. And I wouldn't want to condemn cult followers for being so stupid either.
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