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In case you were wondering… the Peace Bomb is finally exploding. Prem Rawat has a new great idea to bring new people!
Monika Ji sounds like she is speaking from her bathroom in this one, or a submarine.
Read the comments!
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Horrid isn't it, I couldn't last the distance. All the stuff that's coming out now - somehow she doesn't look so pretty any more.
I wonder how the older premies cope where does their reverence go? is it for Mr Prem Rawat or is it for some deity? must be quite confusing if they ever think about it.
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I think she is plenty pretty still. Marolyn too really. IMO anyway.
It kind of reminded me a little of Marolyn's gushing praise in the coffee talk video. It's extremely culty and it reminds me a lot of the way the NXVIM women speaking about Raniere when they were still in. I looked at some clips and the NXIM women are less singsongy. Same adoring looks though.
A little OT but I looked for sample video but this was the one I found most interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXw6tIuCurM
If you want to see someone gushing over a leader plenty of Allison Mack with Keith Raniere. Again, Allison's voice is less culty, to me, than either Marolyn or Monika, but I may be attuned to the sing song of our cult?
Modified by Susan at Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 19:57:51
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so do you believe Monika and Marolyn are gopis? do they believe Prem Rawat is worthy of reverence like the Pope or is he just their Leader, like Hitler?
Or more fittingly - like a Mafia Don. I think that is what the young Prem Rawat aspired to.
Just to add - I agree Monika still looks very attractive but sitting and watching her face as she delivered her sales pitch to her faithful audience, the charm started to slip.
Modified by lesley at Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 15:17:25
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I believe they may both when it serves them believe themselves to be gopis. There are some facts that support that at least one uses the term in reference to herself. Like a certain personalized license plate with the term and other cutesy clever ways to use the term- Gopi. Even the number one Gopi.
I sometimes think that whatever one calls the sick Maharaji/Rawatism beliefs that they are extremely fluid and there are no "facts" so whatever one of them says on any given day that they are feeling is the "fact" . In other cults it's called lying of God or some such thing, but a lot of cults have this ends justify the means and the central fact that Rennie Davis said "The Lord is on the Planet" remains a core belief, but denying that when convenient or denying basically anything for any reason that might serve the Master is I think, probably perfectly ok with core premies. Even if one core person is said to have said she wants to "live in the light of the truth" or another refers to not wanting to be "all premie la la" that self insight while sounding admirable in the moment, crumbles when the rubber meets the road-- which in my judgment is pretty much the same crumbling for the same reasons that Mishler and Dettmers describe in Prem, so if those around him think similarly, Lakeshore really nailed it.
So Gopi when you want to be and CEO another day wife student premie speaker daughter brother friend baby child man or woman... all labels and concepts and not real, so those pesky facts ... not facts at all because facts are concept and we all are going to die anyway. Enjoy life!
Yes, her charm slips greatly. And sometimes it may slip into almost sounding desperate.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395220289785 not even novel to Prem Rawatism
Modified by Susan at Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 16:06:39
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yes ok. It's probably beyond me to understand it. My conspiracy theory friend has graduated from the flat earth belief to flat earth under a dome with a turtle underneath to carry us through space belief. and doesn't appear to see how funny that is. The turtle comes from Buddhism she says.
she is not innocent in this. I am beginning to wonder if it isn't a way of life for her to attack reason and memory - lay out the bs long and loud enough and there's no room for those pesky feelings or facts.
Keep an open mind - more irony in the way it's so disenfranchising on the one hand - not thinking about things, 'keeping an open mind', meditating is a virtue in itself.
and then on the other hand, liberating - being able to question an established belief, because if Prem Rawat isn't the Lord then he's of limited relevance to me.
well Monika couldn't say that of course.
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Wide open, it's pretty toxic isn't it?
Don't let anything be constrained by reason, judgement, physics. It's like that commandment we had, and which I sadly stuck to for too long - never leave room for doubt in your mind.
Here come questions - shut it down!
There should be a name for it. It's a precise syndrome, simple, prevalent and delusional. Analysis avoidance syndrome (AAS), something like that. Deliberate intelligence denial. (DID). Logic without foundation. (LWF).
I'm going with DID, for obvious reasons.
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yes, very toxic isn't it. And there you are being told how good you are and how intelligent you are to keep an open mind.
It's some technique not sure how they do it but it's like sticking a straw into a popper - I really like your acronyms - I had Induced AAS as a premie and very happy to lose it, but I think maybe it's part of the charm for some for one reason or another.
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Hi Lesley. In a shameless switch in subject I wondered whether I can ask you about Australian chickens. Here we are visiting my sister in SA and all 4 of her chickens died within a week. No obvious signs of fox attack. There are quite a number of rats about. Do you know of rats spreading disease to chickens or anything else that might explain it? Was quite hot for 4 or 5 days.
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If you follow the young and beautiful to Byron Bay, give me a call and we'll - I was going to write put a shrimp on the barbie - but to be honest I've never seen prawns barbecued and I'm not really that sort of Australian.
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Would love to but unfortunately time and money don't permit. Mainly just a family visit combined with a bit of sightseeing in SA - Flinders, Kangaroo Island but unfortunately now time to leave this fantastic country.
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Hi Tommo, I am in Byron Shire too if you get up North. I'm assuming you have the bodies of the chickens so you know they haven't been eaten - fox, eagle and snake are the main predators, so I don't really know. Lots of rats means lots of snakes I would have thought, I suppose it's possible they've been bitten?
I have hyline browns - they are a Rhode Island Red Cross. Large good egg layers. My other three chickens are happy and hale but Half Beak, the one who died, died from heart-stopping pain. Brought on by issues with her egg-laying process, don't know detail but do know she was in an insane amount of pain, laid a shell-less egg was fine then a couple of days later, ie two eggs were laid fine and then came another malfunction she died on the spot. We (me and the other chickens) were sad to lose her but also glad she wasn't in that much pain any more. I have since heard that these egg-laying malfunctions happen quite often. So that is another option if they are a developed layer breed.
I don't know anything about diseases. It's possible there's an environmental factor if you mean your sister only had them for a week but if she's had them for a while and then they all died in a week then it would be something that's changed in that week. And if they're old and from the same clutch it's possible they've died of natural causes.
I dunno Tommo, all dying in a week from no obvious cause, it is a bit mystifying isn't it. I haven't heard anything about rats causing disease in chickens but it seems to me like a reasonable possibility.
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Thanks so much Lesley. Just discussed all that you wrote with my sister. Chickens been here for a few years and only started dying these last few weeks. Hadn't thought of snake bite - they are certainly around here in the hills. So that might be right. The thing that changed most probably was a week of very high temperature and possibly an explosion in the rat population ? I also noticed that they have a continual drip water supply system with an open trough that the rats would likely drink from and perhaps defecate in? Wondering then whether it might be Salmonella etc contamination of the water. Do you think that is possible and wondering how you do the water in your setup? Thanks again. A bit sad having to bury the chickens - I sort of made friends with them in the first week we were here. Tim. Ps just realised that the rats have also been getting at the feed as well - probably explains why so many and another source of infection?
Modified by tommo at Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 20:38:21
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Yes, if rats and mice can get at the feed they will multiply. I don't know if that results in disease.
my chickens have an expected life span of about 7 years - could it be old age? I don't see that the hot weather would do it unless they are in confined conditions and ran out of water. I have one of those dripping water feeders - it gets dirty in the trough in five seconds. I also put a bowl of water out in the back yard, they do like to drink a lot and cluster round for a drink of fresh clean water. I realised that the carpet snake having a nap in my chicken coop had followed a pair of large, maybe marsupial rats in there and eaten one of them the other was there at the feeder the next day. It was a very attractive little furry animal. So that's why I'm thinking marsupial, I haven't seen it since. I don't have any other rats that I know of. I keep my feed in the house. Other people use galvanised steel bins. I had some bits of star picket so I put that round the bottom of the coop to keep the rats out - not that that stopped the chickens scratching out some new holes. But no further sightings of rats or mice. Yes chickens are a surprisingly friendly and engaging bunch aren't they.
I think maybe talking to someone in the immediate area who keeps chickens might be useful.
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Thanks again Lesley. The rat problem became horrendous at one stage with loads all sunning themselves on the lawn. Now no chickens and no feed and the numbers seem to declining. The neighbour put some rat poison down apparently so maybe that has something to do with it too. Good idea about sealing the coop to make it rat proof. Two of the chickens were young, the other pair about 4. Sis plans on some new ones in a couple of months. Tim
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oh my goodness the rat poison. That makes sense doesn't it. sorry to hear that. Not pleasant to think of them being poisoned. A metal bin with a tight fitting lid is effective for storing the feed, and then of course there's a cat or a carpet snake. 
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Yes thanks Lesley. Your advice to keep rats out of the coop is the key thing we have agreed here. New set up is going to ensure that happens so hopefully all good in future. Its nice having the birds in the garden but from now on the coop doors will be firmly shut behind them and better precautions taken.
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After the Peace Bomb, after all the saffron-robed mahatmas, after all the festivals and all the darshan lines, after singing Arti thousands of times, after all the Rejoices and countless Knowledge Reviews, after paying for all those jets and mansions and Amaroo, after Prem Rawat's entire history since the day he set foot in the west more than fifty years ago...
There apparently remains a lot of followers who are so stupid that they need to be treated like little puppy dogs in the middle of house training. That's exactly how she comes across to me at 1:05 as she speaks to a bunch of sixty, seventy, eighty-year-old adults who've been around Prem Rawat and Knowledge Self-Knowledge for decades as if they're a bunch of children.
"I just want to briefly run through what Peace Education and Knowledge is. And basically that is...
(Insert: Now, slowly... repeat after me...)
The Knowledge is Self-Knowledge. Prem Rawat teaches Self-Knowledge. The tools of Self-Knowledge enable a person to take their attention from the outside and turn it in to an experience, very unique to every person.
It's not going to be something like... My experience will be different than yours, my experience will be different day-to-day. It really depends on my focus, my ability to let go to it, and definitely it's something to enjoy. That is the crown jewel. The real core behind Prem Rawat's message of peace is this beautiful experience within."
There you have it. P.E.A.K. Great job, Monica. An apple for the teacher. By my calculations, some of the people being addressed have spent well over 25,000 hours actually applying the tools of Self-Knowledge, and that doesn't even count all the hours they've spent listening, keeping in touch, participating and traveling for most of their adult lives.
And now Prem Rawat is telling them that after all that, they still need to sit through a P.E.A.K. training? For crying out loud... many of them have retired!
I've never seen a better example of how that family distrusts and disrespects premies and looks down on them as spectacularly gullible and easy to manipulate.
After all that, it's come to this?
"The Knowledge is Self-Knowledge. Prem Rawat teaches Self-Knowledge."
Somebody please... help them! _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PS, shouldn't it be P.E.A.S.K.?
Modified by lakeshore at Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 19:37:22
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I don't see why you're so surprised. Have you forgotten the history of Rawati$m?
In 1999 there was "the Trainings" part of which was saved for posterity on the Introducing the Possibility of Knowledge video. They'd been involved for nearly 30 years by then.
Back in 2005 Rawat brought out the Keys and the been involved for 35 years by then. In Connect North America it was written:
the keys are coming
Maharaji is now developing a new approach to preparing to learn the
techniques of Knowledge. He calls it the "Keys". People already
preparing can elect to either continue with the present process or wait
for the new approach. Newly interested people are asked to wait for the
Keys.
The first five Keys focus on specific issues Maharaji wants to
address to help people prepare for a life with Knowledge. Each Key will
be introduced by Maharaji and will include supplementary material
featuring excerpts from past presentations that touch on the selected
topics. After watching all five Keys and supporting material, a person
can ask for the gift of Knowledge.
The sixth Key is the Knowledge session itself.
The Keys are also intended to help those who have already learned the
techniques of Knowledge continue to listen, learn and - above all -
enjoy.
The Keys are coming soon. In the meantime, people are encouraged to
listen to discover more about what is being offered and to keep in touch
in order to be contacted when the Keys are ready. Forms should be
available at local events for people who would like to be contacted when
the Keys are available.
Premies were expected to pay for the Keys and go through them all watching Rawat's videos but for no more than 2 hours a day.
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It's clear that the same concepts have been slightly repackaged and resold again and again over the years to basically the same customers.
But always, as with the Trainings or the Keys, this is the thing everyone has been waiting for....
It's exciting.
I've captured the excitement and turned it into a musical.
Modified by 13 at Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 07:06:05
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Laughter in waves!
I drafted another long post in reply to prembio (why do I do that!?  ). Anyway, I told him I wasn't so much surprised as I was dumfounded again, but that he'd still be right if he said "I don't see why you're so dumfounded."
Then you captured everything I wrote in your brilliant musical. Well, almost everthing. I summed it all up by saying "what an insult to human intelligence."
I'm pretty sure you can easily imagine how I got there.
Modified by lakeshore at Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 08:26:38
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It always seemed to me that there were 2 main types of premies: gopis and yogis.The gopis, like Monica, prem's mistress, were always in awe of the master, no matter what he did. If he brushed his hair, petted a dog, smiled at someone... it would blow them away. They could literally swoon at anything the master said or did, and find some mystical reason why it was just for them or it was just what they needed to hear at that moment. The yogis, on the other hand, were meditators, strictly adhering to the s,s,m routine with a heavy emphasis on meditation and their experiences with it. I was in that camp. We wanted that "practical experience" that was talked about, through the meditation,while the gopis were looking to find it "at the feet of the master". I couldn't get into the gopi thing, it seemed way too cultish, but I had to admit, they got their experiences far easier that I got mine. I had to hole up in a closet for 4 hours to get my experience, while they just had to watch a video or look at an old Divine Times magazine to get theirs....or better yet, catch a little satsang from someone who had just been with the divine master himself... So, I think it's safe to assume that prem's mistress is a gopi. And I think it's also safe to assume that there's not too much critical thinking or reasoning going on in that mind of hers. (If there was, she would technically be "in her mind", and that's a strict "no-no"  I get all that. But I do have to wonder when the few remaining premies will wake up and realize that prem is simply putting old wine into new wineskins, and no matter how you package it, the 4 techniques are at the heart of "knowledge" and no one seems to get very much from them, except maybe a brief sense of peace that comes from any form of inward focusing-journaling, yoga, mindfulness,focused awareness,taking a walk in the park etc. It's amusing for me to watch premies squirm around and try to find a justification for prem's latest forays into enlightening the world through 4 shop worn techniques that no one even does with any great success...it will be interesting to see how long this new package lasts....and what the excuse will be when the world doesn't rush to embrace it...or maybe the "peace bomb" will finally ignite this time, if only the premies can finally get it together....I'm not holding my breath on that one... It's interesting to see from the outside how blind to these things prem really is, or appears to be..... He used to say that "people take one look at me, then they look at you (the premies), and what they see with you, determines whether they look back at me or not. The implication was clearly that the premies didn't have their lives together, at least to his satisfaction. But when you get a real look into the life of prem rawat these days, it's clear that you don't need to look any further, at the premies lives.The dysfunction you see there, is enough to turn you away, and turn your stomach too....
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"..and what the excuse will be when the world doesn't rush to embrace it..."
"people take one look at me, then they look at you (the premies), and what they see with you, determines whether they look back at me or not."
It will again be all the premies faults, students or whatever they are now... "self knowledge" "peak" whatever will be someone's bad concepts, not his. His. his? His?
"The dysfunction you see there, is enough to turn you away, and turn your stomach too...."
Great points.
(My posts today are distinctly reminding me of Bill Burke. Remember his posts?)
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Intelligent ExistenceThe science of understanding
That plus all of the acronyms like PEAK and there were some other ones too. I can't keep up.
But getting back to that title, it seems very closely linked to "Intelligent Design". That was my immediate association. It implies that if you listen to the intelligence that created the universe (wink wink) and do what he says, then you can live in the presence of that intelligence (more winks). So just replace Divine Light Mission with Intelligent Existence like you replace Perfect Master with Peace Ambassador.
Independent of all that, the title together with the tagline and the logo just screams cult, at least to me. If I just read that without knowing it had anything to do with Rawat, that is what I would think, except I might assume it was Scientology.
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I couldn't be bothered searching for His actual words but Premboy prattled on about God creating not enough dinosaurs and so the world was going to run out of oil shortly back in the 1970s. That would have been a personal disaster for Prem who is never happier than burning fossil fuels as loudly and as quickly as possible.
Remember how there was going to be an environmental apocalypse when the oil ran out in 1990, when all the important metals ran out in 2000, when the world ran out of water in 2010 and so on and so forth and the only thing left to eat would be other people in 2020
Oh well we'll survive until 2030 when the world is going to run out of weather
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I mean, having left the cult consciously & for good around 16 years ago, why would I do this to myself when I could have so much fun doing anything else .... as long as it's far enough away from the cult.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
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This is a very sane response.
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The only person who can teach self knowledge is your self.
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