New Post

Reload

Overview
 
Chat
NewestArchive
Login
 
Admin
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2024 - why people need to recover after the involvement with the Prem Rawat cult
  Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
maria77 ®

01/17/2024, 07:50:50
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply

I wish to all Happy New Year 2024 !

Thank you for being here and your help all those years!

I would like to share with you my understanding on why people need to recover after the involvement with the Prem Rawat cult and how...

Many religious personality cult victims report severe psychological trauma and difficulty into acknowledging it.

I wish that my experience and study on the subject will help victims, and especially the ex-premies who did devote their lives to Prem and “his” “knowledge” (older and more recent ones) to realize that they were subject to enforced cohesion and that they involuntarily became the mental “slaves” and provided financial, labor and propaganda support to a religious group and its leader.

The way the cohesion by religious cults and the recruiting of new members is achieved in the 21st century is by the subtle but effective means of “love bombing” by the group who at the same time induces submission and supernatural fear towards the cult leader who is presented to them as Superior on an existential level (the Master holds supernatural force or/and knowledge), and most and foremost by being withheld crucial information about the cult and the leader’s activities.

The core questions that each cult victim has to ask themselves to be free, are:

·        Do they know who their “spiritual” leader is in reality and why are they not allowed to pass any critical enquiry or judgement on his behavior, his actions and his past?

·        Had they known before starting believing in this specific “Master”, that he is responsible for criminal offenses, would they still feel devoted to him?

·        In case they would still be devoted to him, why do they apply other standards to him than to any other human beings and they “let him off” with crimes punished by law?

·        And last but not least: if their Master’s spiritual path preaches that money is an illusion then why he needs to spend more money than a country’s annual budget for his own luxurious lifestyle running an international money-earning operation led by him?

The wealth and power that religious personality cults still hold despite their criminal track records, and even though “Masters” such as Osho have been exposed by their ex-followers, even though the Beatles openly spoke about economic exploitation of Maharishi’s followers etc.

Religious personality cults thrive despite the huge track-record of suicides and other destructive effects like psychosis etc. continuously reported to the more sensitive cult-members, as well as the effects of long-term sadistic abusive behavior of the “Master” towards his followers, where he is always right and they are always wrong, and are always put in a position to apologize to the press and the large public for the Master’s current and past crimes and mis-behaviors.

People who have a Spiritual Master are not necessarily under some psychotic delusion, but they are not students of a Spiritual Master because of free choice:

All of the students who believe in a Spiritual Master (usually alive) are being withheld of the information about his conduct and his religious group practices, so they are subject to fraud.

This is the reason they join in the first place and give the “Master” the time and space to coerced them to his belief system where “He” is the only Law of the “spiritual” and the material world.

They gradually become his slaves and devote to their “Master” their lives and give him huge financial support for anything he wants to do, often through illegal means, with global fundraising campaigns and large sums of unreported money globally given in cash.

Many cults also cover pedophiles or other sexual offenders and they are allowed to be trusted with cult member’s children even after series of reported cases. Other cults use illegal activities for fundraising.

Also, in all religious personality cults there is always a group of “ex-rated” followers who are totally devoted although they “know too much”, and also ready to take responsibility for the Gurus mistakes and legal issues, as well as to be used as scape-goats when this is needed. (This is happening still today in Prem Rawat's cult).

Ex-followers who talk about their experience inside their cult are called lunatics, emotionally instable, “hurt” usually they are told by other "premies" that they "freaked out" because of a sick attachment they developed by their own responsibility to the “Guru” or simply that they are disturbed and thus exaggerate and are blaming the cult’s leader for their own issues.  

The large public’s opinion usually is that the Rawat cult is a phenomenon who has a good side when it does not have destructive effects, and a bad side in certain occasions, concerning only some extreme lunatics. This general opinion of people who havent done research on the subject, align unfortunately with the cult’s apologists who say that the victims:

·        either consciously chose to be followers of a sociopath-narcissist-criminal with "charismatic personality traits" and “they asked for it”

·        Or they are lunatics, weirdos believing in crazy religions because they are already crazy, who also “asked for it”, (so it's an extreme phenomenon concerning only people with specific mental disorders, and thus by not caring for them, the people using that argument basically say that they don’t care about that specific minority of people).

However, none of these explanations (or excuses) are valid.

The first is absolutely wrong because religious cults do “silence” the voice of ex-followers and do not admit their systematic economic exploitation of the followers nor the criminal activities of the Guru, and purposely they withhold information about the "onion” layer of the cult leading to a "devotional” core of followers doing “anything” for their Master, as well as information about the cult’s practices and destroy evidence of their past.

No-one from the Guru’s followers when they kiss the guru’s feet in total devotion and bliss do not know the basic information about the Cult: they sincerely believe their Master is not responsible for any misconduct or criminal activity, and this is why the "guru" hides this information from them.

As for lunacy, no, the people suffering already from some psychosis before joining this type of cults are and always have been a minority.

The majority of people joining similar cults are perfectly sane people who go through some crisis or who simply under certain circumstances can be led to submit their free will to a self-proclaimed Guru and divide themselves into:

a) the cult-self where they are followers of the Guru,

and b) their “social” self, they one they use to interact with the rest of the society and most of them are skilled and very logical and successful people in many fields.

Ex-cult victims like Mike Finch in his book “My life without the Guru” explains in depth how a former “hippy” who had thirst for peace and truth and traveled in the 70s in India ended up giving everything to a self-proclaimed God from India.

But what happens when a cult victim finds out the truth about the leader and the group’s offenses?

Other mechanisms are at play.

The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology explains the “closing their eyes to the truth” reaction.

Cognitive dissonance is the distressing mental state that people feel when they "find themselves doing things that don't fit with what they know, or having opinions that do not fit with other opinions they hold." A key assumption is that people want their expectations to meet reality, creating a sense of equilibrium. Likewise, another assumption is that a person will avoid situations or information sources that give rise to feelings of uneasiness, or dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance theory explains human behavior by positing that people have a bias to seek consonance between their expectations and reality. According to Festinger, people engage in a process he termed "dissonance reduction," which can be achieved in one of three ways: “lowering the importance of one of the discordant factors, adding consonant elements, or changing one of the dissonant factors.”

·        The first reaction of the cult victim is to deny the truth, and change the facts. The cults victims will “change” the truth because it will create cognitive dissonance to kiss the feet of a person who is responsible for criminal activities.

·        The second reaction – response that is expected from the cult victim is to believe that the cognitive dissonance is part of their spiritual evolution and that the path of devotion to the Master follows the saying (repeated by ex-rated followers to keep the cult victims who “know too much”, quiet) «the closer you get to the fire the more it burns».

·        And the third and last reaction is that of massive disillusionment: the victim has to admin firstly to themselves and then to others the truth and that they is no peace and love to be found in a fire that when you get close to it, it burns, and that they need to re-live their past with the cult as what it truly was, and resolve the internal conflicts created by the relationship with a person with split-personality, that of a “loving Master” and that of an abuser. The only solution is to consider the Master as one integrated personality, see him only as a normal human being.  

Then, and only then, at the 3rd and last reaction to the revelation of the ugly truth about the “guru”, the victim’s eyes are open and recognizes the patterns of the same systematic recruitment of victims to similar religious groups operating as criminal organizations and all of them practicing the same or similar practices.







Modified by maria77 at Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 08:05:21

Previous View All Current page Next
Ave Maria!
Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR 2024 - why people need to recover after the involvement with the Prem Rawat cult -- maria77 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
Susan ®

01/17/2024, 10:26:45
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
Thanks Maria for posting again.

Recently, someone posted about Prem Rawat using moth to flame metaphor as a desired outcome.

“Self-immolation
The term self-immolation broadly refers to acts of altruistic suicide, otherwise the giving up of one's body in an act of sacrifice. However, it most often refers specifically to autocremation, the act of sacrificing oneself by setting oneself on fire and burning to death.”

And I flashed on your words from a previous post about the “x-rated” when faced with the obvious hypocrisy of his behind the scenes behavior saying “the closer you get to the flame the more it burns”

I had not understood that.

It’s echoed a bit by Don Johnson’s report of sharing with Prem how disturbed he was to learn Prem was drinking heavily.  Prem he says first replied “who told you?” And then proposed - maybe it’s a test.
I believe Don likely failed that test, thus why he didn’t become further “x-rated”. 
I think like many malignant narcissists he spreads the disease this way, testing for how loyal a premie will be, to he how much trust he can give them in keeping his secrets.  








Previous Current page Next
Re: Ave Maria!
Re: Ave Maria! -- Susan Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
maria77 ®

01/18/2024, 02:09:18
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
Thank you for your post ! It's exactly as you describe: If you recall the "Teach me devotion" song, lots of premies (including myself) were totally convinced that total devotion to the "master" is the road to "knowledge" as instructed by him personally as well as "his" "instructors" etc. 
When myself went through the "ex-rating" process I did ask another ex-rated who had been close to prem from day one and definitely knew "too much" (I found out later that he did know even more and worst...) and his reply was exactly that: "The closer you get to the fire the more it burns" 
It's a classical trip a malignant narcissist puts people in: to get "tested" for the devotion by accepting more and more malignant crazy stuff without questioning ever the "guru" and stay "loyal".
I was praised for my loyalty and did get a "high" from being the "guru" s devotee, and since we are talking about Religion, the "high" was given a "spiritual" meaning: the "fire" is the "divine fire" and the devotee's goal is to manage to totally burn the "selfish self" the "mortal self", "ego" or the "mind" (in other words your critical judgement and beliefs about what is good and what is bad) 
Good and bad according to Prem's wordview do not exist, it's "the minds" construct, and once freed from all this "concepts" and stops jusding the "master" then the "premie" can enjoy "Knowledge"
it's a belief system set-up to create a criminal organization basically where "good and bad" are defined only by the "master" and no-one else is allowed to pass any judgement, instead the followers have to blindly obey the directions of their master, and if they don't like it it's because they are not 'realised" enough to stay in the fire whilst they get burned... it's a hindu origines worldview and concepts such as "lila" (divine play) are still in play in the premie world... Prem disguises his disgusting acts as "lilas" to the old premies who are still covering up for him, to prove their Loyalty and pass the test to go deeper inside the fire...
I hope there is time for some of them to get out of the fire before they totally burn !






Previous Current page Next
Re: Ave Maria!
Re: Re: Ave Maria! -- maria77 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
prembio ®

01/18/2024, 04:20:35
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
I was a premie out on the border so to speak, away from the centres of Prem power and so I never heard tales of x-rating or x-rated behaviour but even so I heard plenty of 'lila' explanations for young Prem's behaviour and a thought stayed with me from my introduction in 1973:

Why are then no lila stories about Maharaji's actions that astounds everyone with their kindness, charity, humility, decency, compassion, generosity and self-sacrifice? Why are all the lila stories basically excuses for his poor behaviour, mean-spiritidness and greed?

Why do Marolyn Rawat's stories all show him in a bad light?

Hindu tales of 'lila' are exotic, magical, colourful, mythical.

Premie lila tales are tawdry.






Previous Current page Next
Yes, Ave Maria!
Re: Re: Ave Maria! -- maria77 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
lakeshore ®

01/18/2024, 05:00:51
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply

A shout of welcome!

Just learning you were X-rated tells me "you know of that which you speak." (Not that I didn't already know that.)

"It's a belief system set-up to create a criminal organization basically where "good and bad" are defined only by the "master" and no-one else is allowed to pass any judgement, instead the followers have to blindly obey the directions of their master, and if they don't like it it's because they are not 'realised' enough to stay in the fire whilst they get burned."

So much said in so few words. It also reminds me of how much I missed your posts.

As for your initial post, it's all true and certainly helpful to anyone serious about trying to deconstruct their involvement in this or similar cults. Your study of the subject certainly shows! As for your experience, you must have gotten burned pretty badly.

(to hack your sentence) "... perfectly sane people who... submit their free will to a self-proclaimed Guru and divide themselves into... a cult-self and social-self."

I've referred to this as "the double life of a premie." (Or as Joe put it: "Premies are ashamed of being premies." ) It just occurred to me that this has varying degrees, i.e., the more intense the social and devotional life, the greater the internal divide and consequently the more stress it creates. The opposite of peace! 

For me, it was a high-pressure work environmentt in which "the guru" already had a rotten stygma, combined with intense devotion and heavy participation that I was forced to conceal to protect my career. It almost broke me!
 
Thank you for posting again. You obviously have much to contribute and I hope you're making progress with overcoming your rotten NDA.

Wishing you a happy 2024 as well!

Bob
 







Modified by lakeshore at Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 05:18:21

Previous Current page Next
Re: Ave Maria!
Re: Ave Maria! -- Susan Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
maria77 ®

01/18/2024, 02:11:15
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
..for the record the "Please please please Teach my Devotion" song remains a trigger for me and I have to stop myself from the immediate response of a "blissful feeling" of surrender to the master even after 10years of disillusionment, knowing the worst one can know for their guru... and still emotionally it's hard to manage to get the right feeling response when one has grown up feeling bliss every time they feel 'surrender' to the "master"... 





Modified by maria77 at Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 02:24:37

Previous Current page Next
Trigger warning! Golden Way
Re: Re: Ave Maria! -- maria77 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
Susan ®

01/18/2024, 16:52:10
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply

I just posted a link to Prembio take down of Golden Way on Facebook. 

The lyrics of original and the changed lyrics Daya sang

“Draw the veil away true lover plant your Holy Seed” even that prasad reference seemed too much to sing to her father I guess. Still sang to “true lover” changed to “bring your love close to me”




Above link to Sound Cloud I found of “anand band”

You can find Power of Love and Blue Aquarius on ITunes.

This credits Prem Rawat on ITunes too.







Modified by Susan at Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 16:54:57

Previous Current page Next
Re: Trigger warning! More triggers!
Re: Trigger warning! Golden Way -- Susan Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
lakeshore ®

01/19/2024, 04:27:47
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply

I confess to my instant bonding with the "valley deep with wisdom and a mountian high with grace" Anand Band. It was 1973 right after Millenium when I was suddenly back home with my parents recuperating from a motorcycle accident the day I was to leave for Millenium.

I'm not sure if it was the same cognitive dissonance Maria77 was referring to, but it certainly was dissonant with the Hendrix, Who, Stones, Beatles, etc. world I was immersed in. Oh, Frampton and that "comfortably numb" band, too. And after the Anand Band, along came One Foundation and Daya. I pictured my retirement in a rocking chair with my guitar plucking away at DriftingAll Roads Have an Ending and a few bhajans.

That's a pretty good analogy for everything else I suddenly adopted in my total makover those first few years - completely at odds with how I viewed myself. I suppose... That is why I particularly enjoy the mocking and irreverent humor often posted on this forum. It's that lingering resentment of just how far off the rails I got. Of course it can be criticized as juvenile, but then again, what would those critics have to say about the thumb sucking Anand Band?






Modified by lakeshore at Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 04:39:23

Previous Current page Next
Re: Trigger warning! Golden Way
Re: Trigger warning! Golden Way -- Susan Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
KarenK ®

01/19/2024, 09:20:47
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
I have been totally creeped out by Daya's  slightly erotic torch songs. PLANT YOUR HOLY SEED???????






Previous Current page Next
yes, good post, Maria
Re: HAPPY NEW YEAR 2024 - why people need to recover after the involvement with the Prem Rawat cult -- maria77 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
lesley ®

01/19/2024, 07:03:34
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply

I was definitely in an outer layer of the onion.  When push came to shove I didn't doubt myself, I doubted the cult.  I simply could not encompass the notion that Maharaji was not basically a good man.  At first I thought it was the 'wet logs' around him but when it became clear it came from Rawat himself, it completely threw me for a loop and I never did service again.  Hooray for ex-premie org.  





Modified by lesley at Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 07:04:37

Previous Current page Next


Forum     Back