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I was looking at an article about an inland route rail track that may pass right next to the amaroo site. It said there would be 33 passes per day, within 1 km of the place. It would eventually go to 47 passes per day. according to the premie spokesperson in the article.This would make a retreat site and sleeping in tents a nightmare, with train passes every 30 minutes at night. The trains are loud, diesel powered and carry a lot of coal as well. It would start in about 2 years, 2026.Has anyone heard this? any truth to it? If so, prem's place may need to go up for sale, but I'm not sure who would want to buy it...
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If there's any truth to that, that people in power in Australia are so short-sighted that they'd consider building a new railway to transport more coal, well, who owns the land, how its value would be affected and whether people would be able to sleep in their tents aren't really issues worth bothering about.
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You don't understand the situation: our governments have decided that Australia will switch to alternate environmentally sound energy so we have turned off or are turning off our cheap coal-based power stations and purchasing the new alternative technology from China, of course, and the only way Australia can afford to pay for this is by exporting huge amounts of coal and iron ore to China and this has to continue and expand for many years yet. The cost of the new power lines alone would bankrupt many countries.
Australia's contribution to "global warming" is and was basically nothing as there are only 25 million people here. The only reasons this insane roundabout is happening is: Actually I don't understand it.
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I appreciate the impracticality of it all. I suspect, judging by your placing the words global warming in quotes, that we'd disagree on the need for change.
I'm in the unfortunate position of seeing the need but accepting the impracticality.
This may seem off topic, but in my view, this bleak view is the result of continuing efforts to disengage with wishful thinking. Exiting the cult was just the start of that.
It's been an interesting journey. And still going on. 2024.
Happy new year to you and everyone here.
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I've gone on the same journey since leaving the cult, or to be strictly accurate it's because I was already on it years before, that I left the instant I was presented with the evidence. That was an actual physical shock which lasted at least a week & was very disturbing.
The cult for me after the abolition of satsang period was a ball & chain around the leg of my intellectual development, so a hindrance I was well rid of rather than something which suffocated it entirely. I appreciate different people had other trajectories, though I suspect yours was more similar to mine than to those who were trapped in the dungeon of eternal devotion.
I've altered my views on many things over the years including of course the years since thinking of myself as a premie, and now even bless the memory of Lloyd George.
I find it curious that we should hold divergent opinions on things in the real world after having done the due diligence, but never mind. The more people realise that for example here in the UK, the Net-Zero project has no chance at all of mitigating the problem, if indeed there is one, but will only impoverish the population, the better the chance of having the sort of impartial public debate which is long overdue.
Then we can take sides behind our respective champi ons. 
In the meantime a Happy New Year to you & to all men of goodwill.
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I know about the ball and chain. It was an amazing time once that was cut off. First, a whole pile of unlearning, seeing through stuff we'd taken on board with no good reason, just soaked it up from the people around us - mostly premies and hippies. So, a lot to undo! And then, an explosion of learning overwhelmed the whole family.
I quit painting and decorating, and learned programming. I was lucky in what I chose to learn, as I found myself on the crest of an IT wave, and within a couple of years, I was teaching it at Exeter uni. Turns out, I'm the thick one in the family.
My wife had a business idea, and wrote a leaflet to promote it. She gave it to me to print. And it was all one sentence. Like Ulysses, but without the literary merit. It was a shock to realise she was virtually illiterate! How could I have not known, after 2-3 years? Anyway, one course quickly followed another and she ended up with 2 masters degrees with distinctions, and is considering doing a Ph.D when she's finished her book.
It swallowed the kids up too, and it hasn't let up to this day. They're doing great, but I'm too proud to allow myself loose on that one.
So yes, it was a great release to leave the cult. Such a mind-numbing experience. Hard to evaluate what was missed, as it's gone, and I was too numb to notice.
I really do think there's a problem. I think net zero has no chance of being implemented. It would impoverish the population. As will not mitigating the problem, so, it looks like lose-lose to me, so far as the economy goes.
So we'll see. Hopefully not this year. Have a good one.
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Given the average age of the attendees I'm surprised that anyone wants to sleep in a tent even now when it's quiet & peaceful. As 10 yrs from now the majority of them will either be dead, incapacitated, or too broke to pay the fees, it isn't too soon to be thinking about options & one of them is getting rid of the place.
Maybe there's compensation available for loss of amenity, which as the site was developed with other people's money is clear profit for the owner. Take the money & run, Mr. PR is good at that. On the other hand standing shoulder to shoulder with the local NIMBYs (there are bound to be some) in opposing it would go down well with the bunny huggers & windmill freaks & might 'offset' in image terms the fact that he burns through 500 tons or whatever it is of jet fuel every year.
Unlikely to be the latter option though,as his primordial fear of contentious publicity is the habit of a lifetime & one not easily set aside.
I'd suggest running a branch line from the new railway into the place, & building a post apocalypse theme park there on the lines of the Mad Max movies. Make a fortune; they could keep the premies on, as filthy ragged extras would be needed. It wouldn't take long, just mess with the water supply & don't issue any new clothes. Just a variation on what already happens I suspect. As people super aware of the importance of gratitude, they'd be ecstatic at finally achieving the minimum wage, & they're already accustomed to various kinds of abuse.
What's to go wrong.
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After your first paragraph, I thought you were headed for suggesting using the land as a burial site. Would be appropriate given the demographics.
You could book your old camping spot as your new burial ground.
The trains aren't going to disturb you.
Let's see which one he goes for.
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That make me laugh. Now I am worried they will think it’s a fabulous idea.
How does it comport with this plan for the compound.
For those who don’t use Facebook, it “Amaroo” public group post of little tiny home trailer units posted in March. Someone else posted something about problems last Amaroo with Prem. There are indications all was not great at the last gathering post pandemic.
Modified by Susan at Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 14:13:21
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13! T h a t i s n o t f u n n y ! (long pause) It's brilliant!  I have no doubt in my mind (which is how perfectly your idea fits the cult) that premies would bequeath whatever's left of their life savings or at least pay a lot to purchase a burial plot blessed and sanctioned by Prem. I say that because I can easily imagine myself (when I was trapped in my premie mindset) paying a lot for such a plot and enjoying the relief and "peace of mind" that would come from knowing that I'd be resting in a place of His choosing - forever "keeping in touch" if you will.
Moreover, I'd know that my tax deductible? payments would be going towards the best possible cause on earth. It's such a good idea that I'd add the sale of monuments and cremation urns with the four Knowledge symbols or some other engraving of Prem's artwork. What better guarantee could a premie buy than His Promise of EIYDHIWNAY on his or her headstone?
Not only that, but I'm sure there are many premies - like myslf (for the sake of making this point) - who, as a result of having been transferred as property so many times, find themselves in places where they have no deep family or birthplace roots to call home. Nothing would solve that dilema for all those enlightened drifters more handily than a burial plot chosen and ordained by Prem.*
Think of all the bhajans and One Foundation songs that could be used for the promotional materials!
In death as in life, of course there would be more perks for more money or bigger inheritances left to Prem in premies' wills. Amaroo strikes me as entry level or economy class. More money could get you a special plot beneath gardens overlooking the Pacific from Prem's Malibu estate or some other land acquired specially for that purpose.
Talk about a fundraising opportunity! Land for premies to be with Prem! That one would rival DECA! And all those legitimate jobs in a cult venture for everyone needed to manage and administer it. What premie wouldn't want to be part of such a kind and compassionate undertaking endeavor? The possibilities and potential for profit are mind boggling. (And what premie doesn't want to boggle minds?)
No disprespect whatsoever to PatD whose idea of a post apocalypse theme park along the lines of Mad Max movies with paid premie extras performing as... well, themselves, is intriguing, but your idea is truly brilliant. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
* Prem already floated the idea of premie retirement communities. Your idea is even better! Much easier and far more lucrative.
Modified by lakeshore at Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 19:54:22
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Bob,
If I ever have a good commercial idea (times running out!) I'll come knocking on your door to persuade you to think it through, add the side benefits and merch, and do the marketing.
Haven't you had a call yet from Mr Rawat to try to get you back? What would it take?
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Dear Mr. Rawat:
Again, I am humbled by your interest in retaining my services. As requested, following are my requirements:
As previously discussed, in addition to my modest compensation, the liquidation of your assets shall be used for the sole purpose of establishing the Prem Rawat Cult Restitution Fund. I would also require that you prepare and distribute a press release to all major media outlets. Additionally, I would require that you make yourself available for high-profile interviews on such major media outlets and commit to full, honest, forthcoming and candid transparency. For your convenience, I have prepared a draft press release that may serve as an acceptable starting point and basis for your interviews:
To anyone who may have in any way been harmed by my false claims, misrepresentations and/or poor guidance, including but not limited to the following:
• victims of child sexual abuse and their families by anyone who reported to me • pain and suffering resulting from having been deceived, lied to, manipulated and/or betrayed • financial ruin or hardship resulting from under-education, under-employment, insufficient wages, insufficient savings for retirement and/or gifts of any kind made to me under the influence of my false claims, misrepresentations and/or poor guidance • pain and suffering resulting from broken or strained spousal, familial, employment-related or other important relationships • psychological harm resulting from developmental disruption and interference caused by my severely misguided anti-social/cultural demands for life-long poverty, chastity and obedience to me as the best way of attaining my false claims, misrepresentations and everything I deceptively offered • physical harm or injury resulting from any exposure or physical action taken in the course of furthering any of my personal or promotional interests • any of the "Fourteen Objections" documented on a website entitled ex.premie.org
I hereby state unequivocally and in the strongest terms possible that my claims of being god, god-like, greater than god, an incarnation of god and/or a Perfect Master the likes of Jesus, Buddha and Krishna, albeit with more powers than ever before; or otherwise all powerful, almighty, omnicient and/or divine in any way -- are and were completely and utterly wrong, false, deceptive, manipulative and self-serving. I also state unequivocally and in the strongest terms possible that there is no connection whatsoever between the Knowledge I have promoted and any of these false claims. Additionally, I direct that the Knowledge I promoted be dropped as a means towards any level of peace, self-awareness or expanded/elevated consciousness, in part because I have so egregiously hyped and misrepresented them that any ongoing practice of them has the potential to cause further harm.
Please accept my deepest apologies for such a prolonged deception and betrayal throughout what for many people has been their entire adult lifetime. Moreover, I am deeply sorry that I never acknowledged and thanked countless people for their extraordinary efforts, hard work and sacrifices that resulted in the enormous amount of wealth I have built-up for myself over the years.
I am sorry. Let me say it again: I AM SORRY.
I fully appreciate your understandable skepticism and dismissal of such an apology from such a dishonorable and deceptive man as myself. I am fully aware, however, that actions speak louder than words. To that end, I hereby direct the following:
• that all assests held by me personally, including but not limited to land, real estate, aviation interests, financial holdings and material posessions be immediately liquidated at the highest and best rates the market will bear • that any local, national or international corporation, business entity, fund or charitable foundation affiliated with me or the promotion of my interests do the same • that all such proceeds be used to fund and andminister the Prem Rawat Cult Restitution Fund • that an oversight board be immediately established to administer the Prem Rawat Cult Restitution Fund and ensure full compliance with these directives
Should you agree to these terms and decide to retain my services, it would be my pleasure to promote your newly adopted interests and directives as outlined herein.
Sincerely,
Modified by lakeshore at Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 11:55:51
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Yes, this is what it would take.
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Really funny.
And beyond that, it's accurate. It's what he'd have to do and say to sincerely condone for his fraud. He could never make up for the damage he's done and the losses and pains some of us suffered. Sure, the ignominy and waste of having spent so much time and effort trying to achieve a delusional goal ( or several goals - he kept changing them) is something we all suffered. But then there's the real suffering piled on top for the child victims of sexism abuse, the broken families, and the families not started because of his demands. For years we've seen the harm documented here and this is just a sub set of all the people he has harmed.
If like Scrooge, he'd had a Christmas epiphany, he'd be right on the phone to you to follow up your suggestions. It's the least and the best he could do.
Thanks for a splendid and thought provoking post.
Happy new year to you both.
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I deleted my favorite part at the last minute. As a PS, I added another requirement... an advance on my pay because a gentleman named 13 was observed by locals walking along the beach on a remote tropical island (the name of which I forget and probably couldn't pronounce if I remembered) in worn-out shoes that were falling apart, and I wanted to get him a new pair from a fine leathersmith.
Modified by lakeshore at Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 13:43:02
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That was a very kind thought.
I've had some good fortune today, and it made me reflect on previous bits of good fortune, and I had thought of this today, before I read your post.
I was in Hong Kong, with a plane ticket to the UK in a week's time, and only enough money to eat frugally, nothing for accommodation. And no shoes. So I figured I might as well spend my time walking round the coast of Hong Kong island, and sleep on the beaches. That would give me something to do for the week. But late in the afternoon of my first day of walking, I suddenly became quite feverish. I was worried it might be malaria or something like that - I'd recently been in remote bits of jungle in the Philippines. So right away, my walking plan wasn't looking so clever.
I walked past a building site surrounded by hoardings, past a wheelbarrow half full of rubble, and, I fancied, a bundle of money. I decided the fever was making me delirious already and walked on. Then stopped, and thought I'd better take a second look. At that point, work at the building site stopped, and all the workers streamed out. A hundred people must have walked out of that gate, past the wheelbarrow, and past me. No-one stopped. When the coast was clear, I walked back.
Yep! A big wad of notes all rolled up and kept together with an elastic band. Enough for a hotel for a week, decent food and a visit to the doctor (it was flu).
And then to the airport. Where the security guy at the boarding gate refused to let me pass, on account of my bare feet. No bare feet on a plane! Well, that was a fix, the prospect of missing my flight, and being stuck in Hong Kong again with no shoes and again with no money! The last person to board the plane was the captain, who checked to see what the fuss was about. When he heard the story, he told the security guard that everyone on the flight would be handed socks anyway, so I wouldn't have bare feet, and so he had to let me board.
Long time ago.
This morning, I was told a diagnosis I'd had 18 years ago which limited my diet was incorrect. I've had no bread, pastries, fish and chips or beer - no gluten - for 18 years because of that diagnosis.
On reflection, I could be annoyed at the limitations I'd put on my life (and everyone who ever cooked for me in that time). But instead, I feel very fortunate to be going out tonight for my first beer in 18 years. Wearing a pretty decent pair of shoes.
2024 is looking good already.
Modified by 13 at Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 12:55:30
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Hope the beer lived up to expectations.
I have been gluten free for a while now, not because it made me sick but it made me feel bloated and then I got chickens and how can you not have eggs on toast, I tried some gluten free bread, surprisingly good.
Goodness 18 years is a long time to suffer under such a misdiagnosis - I think I'm right in saying the nice bread I can get now is fairly recent to the market and the earlier gluten free substitutes were full of soybeans, pretty inedible.
I have just spent the last two days harvesting mangoes. Hooray, a little over 200 fruit. It is 3 years since my last successful crop.
I am wondering if you ever worry about who's bankroll that was in the wheelbarrow (great story).
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What will you do with 200 mangoes? Dry them?
The money wasn't hidden. It was on top of a pile of rubble in the barrow. Can't imagine anyone stashed it there on purpose to retrieve it later. I guessed whoever filled the barrow put it there, whether it fell out of their pocket or it was scooped up along with the rubble, unnoticed. Well, a hundred people walked past it, and I must have watched it for half an hour before collecting it. I guess I was still a premie at that time, and had the idea that the universe owed me a living, that is, I was subject to the intervention of grace on my behalf.
A couple of years ago I found another bundle, £150. A roll on an empty road. I was driving, and reversed back and picked it up. I stuck a notice on a wall nearby, and called the police to let them know I had it, if anyone told them of their loss. I appreciate my gain is someone else's loss. No-one claimed it. This time, it wasn't grace. It was random luck.
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Oh dear, I was back out there getting a few more that's it though, the fruit bats get the rest, too high for me to pick. I reckon it's about 230, beautiful Kensington Pride Bowen mangoes. I've made chutney and mango kulfi in the past but that was before going through two failed crops in a row - I mean I just never come across such good mangoes, you can't buy anything like it and it's just such a good tree. 50 of the fruit this year came from a tree I grew from the seed of my first harvest and thought I just got to do something, the tree has such presence and now there is a young one in the front garden. So it's a prized fruit - all the neighbours like them too, so I pass them around a bit - eat fresh and the rest into the freezer - I just prep and bag them. It freezes very well and so nice to eat in the middle of Winter.
Amazing to find two rolls of money, wow!
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Once again, as I read your stories, all the visuals popped-up in my head. With no ill-will intended, my favorite was picturing you back at square one, broke and barefoot again in Hong Kong (if the captain hadn't spared you), and the indefatigable "What? Me worry!" easy come easy go look on your face as you nonchalantly went along your way.
The special effects on the film as that bundle of money you spotted exploded into a pot of gold beneath a blue-sky rainbow was spectacular! (Apparently, my brain left out grace because it didn't want to ruin the movie.)
Add all the other fantastic, serendipidous and classic scenes you've accumulated over the years and you've got the makings of a blockbuster! It's just that I'm not sure whether it would be a comedy, action/adventure or light-hearted inspirational - Monty Python, Indiana Jones and Forrest Gump all rolled into one and based on a true story! It's surely just as good an idea as your Amaroo burial plots!
I would be first in line to buy tickets, have you sign your book or both. I hope your good fortune continues and your're already developing material for the sequel. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As Lesley said, eighteen years of those restrictions because of an incorrect diagnosis is surely an eye-opener, to say the least. I hope any new diagnosis works to alleviate any conditions you may have.
When I was diagnosed with A-fib and related complications a little over a year ago (fully recovered now), I dropped alcohol (mostly beer) altogether. It was a BIG change! It's still a little awkward because some of the people I hang-out with are totally into their beer and I still feel a little dorkish and out of place standing there sipping my bottle of water. It's fun to watch the atmosphere change, though.
Whereas some people lighten-up and get all magnanimous and big-hearted, I get the impression that Prem is more of an ornery, mean-spirited type. Jasper's recollection of him stumbling into the back seat of a limo, slumping over and drooling as he slurred his words, seemingly fresh off a tryst with his mistress aboard the luxurious jet premies paid for comes to mind.
And to think many of them would likely opt for the year they received Knowledge instead of their actual birth year on their Amaroo headstone (for an extra fee of course).
Modified by lakeshore at Wed, Jan 03, 2024, 09:05:39
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First beer in 18 years! It was so nice...
And there I was, rashly thinking I might have another one next week!
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Lakeshore,
While I loved your list of things it would take to get you back, the whole premise appals me. I can honestly say that there is NOTHING that he could do that would get me back into his vicinity.
I am probably not a very forgiving person, but I simply could not be one of those concentration camp victims who meets their abusive guard decades later and forgives them. No. Nope. No way.
That man took decades of my life and most of my inheritance and destroyed my self-esteem and my will to succeed in life. I despise him and everyone around him who enables him.
Nothing he could ever do could make me forget or forgive him.
That being said, I would dance for joy if he ever did fulfil all the conditions you listed. It would make my heart happy to see him so humbled. But I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him, and I still wouldn't forgive him. He could never 'get me back'.
I believe he belongs in prison for fraud and child abuse. I simply don't believe he can be redeemed. Lock him up and throw away the key. Let him rot and die in prison.
Too much?
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Nothing he could do would do it for me either. I believe the same about where he belongs. And nothing would make me want to interact with the man.
Lakeshore’s hypo terms and conditions would help out PR’s many victims, maybe set some people free. I sort of saw it as holding his nose for the greater good and obviously, the Amaroo premie burial ground is not compatible with the letter anyway.
When I sent that letter via Dettmers in 2000 I was horrified by the notion there was a small chance PR would reply to me. So I said reply to Dettmers. I seriously don’t think he would have replied; it’s not his style to get his hands dirty like that - but I wanted to make it clear I didn’t like him, didn’t respect him and wanted nothing to do with my former God.
I fear the Malibu palace/compound may imagined as Graceland…. Uck. No pun intended.
Modified by Susan at Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 20:42:32
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Hi Acquinas,
I have nothing but respect, understanding and empathy for everything you said! I feel the same way. Thankfully Susan "bailed me out" when she said "holding his nose for the greater good."
That's really true. I often write with the broader audience (premie spies and lurkers?) in mind, hoping something might sink in. Sometime it feels a little rude to not direct it exclusively to the posters here. Other times I don't give a blank what they think and I'm certainly not above being immature and juvenile!
Anyway... yeah, that was pure satire (with a message) and it was a heavy costume to wear. I definitely had to hold my nose when I wrote the word "Dear" as I asked myself what the heck am I doing?!
For the greater good, I probably would volunteer to help dismantle everything and get as much as possible back to people like you and others who gave so much in so many ways.
However remote or impossible the chances of that ever happening may be.
Modified by lakeshore at Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 11:03:00
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Lakeshore
I am pretty sure I knew it was satire, but it still must have triggered something in me. The very idea of him being forgiven by anybody just repelled me. There are few people in the world I despise as much I despise him, with some politicians being a close second (less personal interaction with them, but probably more danger).
Anyway, I love the way you write, so anything you post is good. I just shuddered at the very thought of such a thing - lol.
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