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I thought I should ask, does anyone here think they ever experienced the divine nectar (later to be just known as the 4th technique). I never did but was convinced by others that they did so I chose to believe that I had a tongue deficiency.
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Hi DC Cultmember,
I experienced "Divine Nectar" many times. It tastes exactly the same as snot.
In fact it is snot.
Mucoid Anth.
Modified by AJW at Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 06:12:03
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When I was first on this forum(1997) there was a big discussion on this between the snotters and the not- snotters.
Try looking in the archives. It was the first or second version of the forum.
Modified by Jethro at Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 06:22:11
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This technique always provided me with heightened sense of concentration and I've always enjoyed it. In Chinese internal martial arts (Tai Chi, etc) this tongue position is often recommended as an aid to increasing the meditative experience of these arts. "Nectar" is never discussed or promised. As a present practitioner of Buddhist Insight meditation, I find this tongue position to be helpful in the attempt to be centered. As a premie, I have never tasted nectar, nor have I ever post premie.
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I also have found that the tongue/nectar technique makes me focused on tasks that are exacting and need my close attention.
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I could never get my tongue back far enough to taste snot. I just used to fold it back and carry on with the breath meditation.
However I believe the people who say thy have tasted nectar. This is because I have smelt this amazingly beautiful scent on myself - numbers of times and my mum smelt it on me too so not my nose. Obviously if you eat certain foods it affects your smell but this scent is being made internally and only happens on occasion and I cannot work out what the trigger is.
I have come to the conclusion that there is more to learn about saliva and sweat. Probably a lot more to learn about snot too.
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for the record...I just curl and rest the tongue gently on the upper palate..no forcing - no jabbing - no looking for cavities to explore
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I started by doing that but found it too tiring to last long and I learnt to close my mouth so my tongue was held curled back in the front part of my mouth. Guaranteed not to taste nectar but comfortable enough to forget about. 
I used to do it when I was standing around and wanted to make sure I stayed quiet and didn't blurt something out.
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Sweet and fragrant. Smelled like roses or gardenias. Sweeter than honey. Not snot like at all.
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I was 16, in a chemistry lesson. The teacher was telling us about carbon dioxide, and he said it was sweet. I had to stop him and check! The sweetness I had been tasting with my tongue back during the lesson was much stronger on the outgoing breath than the ingoing breath. That seemed odd to me, not what I'd expected. But if it was just carbon dioxide I was tasting with by tongue finally reaching the back of my throat, feeling my breath with the tip of my tongue....
I then wondered if the light could be just the result of pressing the eyeballs (de riguer in 1973), the divine music tinnitus, the divine word just the result of relaxation and a little self hynosis.
So my first drip. After a bad night, my youthful earnestness lead me to put aside these doubts. After all, wasn't it strange to learn of the sweetness of carbon dioxide just as I had tasted it, and wondered why it was stronger on the outgoing breath. Some lila that was!
I tasted a sweetness alright, but it didn't have any affect on my mood. It seemed inconsequential.
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Interesting question.
I experienced a sweet taste and a corresponding sensation of bliss many times with the nectar technique (AKA 'khecari mudra'), mostly while sitting in meditation. Getting the tongue way back up there is really not necessary whatsoever.
The attendant bliss would not wear off right away, and occasionally lasted hours.
Once in a blue moon, I will still experience it while sitting (but without the technique).
Having said that, I have no idea how the hell it happens, biologically or otherwise, but it did happen (as sure as is typing these keys at present).
I highly doubt these flash experiences are sustainable, and do much more than to let us know that just MAYBE there are things that we cannot always explain away (as 'snot' for example) and that there are enjoyable experiences available in the 'inner realm'. On the other hand, I think chasing these experiences can do more harm than good, and create more angst than pleasure actually.
And of course, are not singular to GMJ, Knowledge or any other tradition.
M
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"Once in a blue moon, I will still experience it while sitting (but without the technique)."
Same for me -- very infrequently with no rhyme or reason. I saw a diagram of taste buds in the tongue somewhere that showed sections for different sensations such as sweet, bitter, sour, etc., and so I attributed the occasional sweetness to a sporadic stimulation of the sweet section... that or a bit of left over toothpaste coming unstuck from between my teeth. I fell for the "behind the uvula" fad during the "meditate 24/7" era. Crammed it back physically until the tendon on the bottom rear of my tongue split slightly (forgot the medical term). What a surprise when my tongue first went back there! Then it became fairly easy to park it there for extended periods of time. As with no light of a thousand suns, no music of the spheres beyond ordinary biological functions in a sea of mostly water and no profound primordial vibration... no manna. Just the bait of a manipulative, exploitative malignant narcissist. PS. I have to admit, though, that there were times I managed to bootstrap myself into frenetic devotional fervors and psyche myself into imagining and believing -- "knowing" -- so much of it. PSS. And just like Cynthia with her tongue, I tend to default to focusing on my breath in circumstances where my undivided attention is important. Thirty-four year habits are hard to break, even after a decade. Plus the fact that it works. But that doesn't make it my salvation.
Modified by lakeshore at Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 08:40:06
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Hey Lakeshore,
Interesting, I just read an article (NYT Science Times I think) that sort of debunks the regions of the tongue applicable to certain types of tastes. True that certain cells are receptive to certain tastes, but all of these cell types are apparently spread throughout the tongue.
But at any rate, I personally think EVERYTHING experienced is (also) physical. Of course there is the 'subjective' side that allows experience without having to understand the underlying bio-mechanics. But for example, learning involves the creation of new distinct neuro-circuits, just as it takes about 45 molecules of an actual substance (only 3 or 4 for a dog) alighting in the cilia of the olfactory gland within a very small space of time for a 'smell' to be recognized. However, the smell of something for us is quite different than the underlying bio-mechanics, allowing us the pleasure of smelling a rose without having any idea of its biological counterpart. We pretty much know by now that there is corresponding physical phenomena arising simultaneously with all experiences.
I doubt that there is anything in the realm of so-called 'spiritual experience' that is different.
I watched the interesting video posted above by Steve, and always marvel at how strong feelings of inexplicable emotions / sensations (especially loving and pleasurable emotions that are new) get intercepted by and tied to the idea of 'God' and other 'spiritual' notions.
On the other hand, even though we are so tied to so-called 'physicality', the universe can be utterly marvelous, even mystical for us sentients, and we are certainly capable of magnificent experiences, especially the ones that seem to stretch us and make us feel connected with a much vaster realm than we can possibly understand, no?
Maybe one trick is to refrain from trying to define these experiences too much using the tired vocabulary of religion and myth. Another would be to refrain from thinking we are limited to only our prior experience (for us explorers anyway).
My $.02 (US)
M
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I am very glad to hear I'm not the only person in the universe who thinks everything has substance. I thought I was out on a limb there and yet you are saying it is pretty much known.
so if I say that just as we experience a smell through it's physical existence, we experience an emotion the same way. I wonder if it isn't to do with all those tiny little hairs on our body, like little antennae. In which case all those people who remove their hair with wax are losing a lot of information. 
It's all very fascinating. There is the cockroach scuttling along the floor quite happily heading for some crevice it can hide in. Oh you've seen it, immediately it is paralysed by fear, it panics and desperately races for the nearest hideyhole and then omg you have it cornered and I swear it if were a human it would be pleading for it's life.
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To me so far, the best explanation for "nectar" seems to be 13's comment that CO2 has a sweet aroma (physical property). To add the notion that beyond gasses, emotions are physical in nature -- as everything must surely be -- is eye opening! It shouldn't be, though, what with all those pesky little neutrinos passing through me as I type this.
Modified by lakeshore at Fri, Oct 27, 2017, 05:16:20
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I found it interesting that Karen's description of nectar was exactly the same as mine would be for the scent I sometimes smell on myself - it was happening today funnily enough. Tho I just smell of sweat now, earlier on I could smell a beautiful honey and flowers scent.
13's explanation is good for the honey but not the flowers. Here look it is happening again - if I sniff under my arm it is changing from a normal sweat smell to a nectar smell - it seems to me that it must be the chemistry I am producing.
Yes it is interesting to think of emotions as having a discernible reality. It kinda pegs it all nicely down. I don't know quite what I mean by that except that in a world where people deny their emotions so much it is comforting to remember they are real.
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Dear Leslie, After I got a grip from my sudden and unexpected laughter... It pains me to have to bring this to your attention... But, er, um, based on the way you described the uncontroversial technical instructions from the Master (puny little one at that) as to how the 4th technique should be properly practiced... You need a Knowledge Review!! 
Modified by lakeshore at Fri, Oct 27, 2017, 20:49:19
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Yes I do need a knowledge review, but not from The Guest Speaker thank you very much!
it's an evolving affair. There was a time when you had to hold your arms up all by themselves, get your tongue up your throat and press your eyeballs firmly.
I distinctly remember Maharaji himself saying it was okay just to fold your tongue back. This was good news for me but the one that clinched it was when he said we could do it lying down. Now he's talking sense....
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"On the other hand, even though we are so tied to so-called 'physicality', the universe can be utterly marvelous, even mystical for us sentients, and we are certainly capable of magnificent experiences, especially the ones that seem to stretch us and make us feel connected with a much vaster realm than we can possibly understand, no?" Over the top of everything expressed here, that one sentiment is perhaps most comforting and uplifting to me. It's the counter balance and fuel for the harsh criticism, sarcasm and indignation justifiably aimed at Prem Rawat and other despots who prey upon, dominate and control beautiful people for personal enrichment and self aggrandizement. Thank you.
Modified by lakeshore at Fri, Oct 27, 2017, 04:54:34
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Hi Lakeshore,
Your comment on 'personal enrichment and self-aggrandizement' got me going.
If someone stumbles onto Prem Rawat these days, they find what seems to be more or less a pleasant message about 'peace' (albeit presented with unremarkable intelligence) with the option to get some meditation tools. Personally, I am fine with the message that peace is important, and that any meaningful access to peace is 'within'. I am also fine with practicing meditation and even the techniques he borrowed from very old traditions (at lease as a beginning practice). I am not fine with him.
Why is it still OK to practicing premies that he got so fecking wealthy? And why does he continue to live as if he is in fact the Lord of the Universe? And why is it OK to him that so many of his followers forgo 'bigger' lives for themselves to support him and exhaust their earnings to follow him around? And so on and so forth.
There is SUCH a disingenuous, deliberately dishonest disconnect between his public image these days and the images of him remaining within the heads of those that continue their devotion and to support his obscene lifestyle of conspicuous consumption, obscene because it's based on deceiving those that donated his lifestyle.
The bait of devotion to a Godman, and the switch to learning from a peace teacher.
Nothing new here, but I am really curious as to how old premies rationalize this dynamic. I am also curious as to how those that are coming to him now perceive him. Are they seeing him an one would see any sort of new-age spiritual teacher, like say, a Byron Katie, Wayne Dyer, Oprah, etc? Is the Perfect Master myth still driving the bus for newcomers?
Love some fresh input on this.
M
Modified by roark at Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 13:20:46
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Nothing new here, but I am really curious as to how old premies rationalize this dynamic. I am also curious as to how those that are coming to him now perceive him. Are they seeing him an one would see any sort of new-age spiritual teacher, like say, a Byron Katie, Wayne Dyer, Oprah, etc? Is the Perfect Master myth still driving the bus for newcomers?
Love some fresh input on this.
Not sure how fresh this is, but I have come across a few new ones over the last 20 years or so.
I met quite a few who were told not to talk with 'old' premies in their sessions. I came across a couple who didn't know anything about the pm stuff. They just thought prem rawat was 'good bloke'.We just discussed meditation.
Also judging from what I know from the past , I think 'knowledge sessions' were/are made to suit the audience.
For example, I had a friend in LA who got knowledge circa 86/7. I was really surprised because he was/is an orthodox Jew. I asked him about the session and he said their was not bowing to pictures or deifying of rawat. He really didn't know what I was talking about. For him it was just a meditation teacher.
As for the old premies , they just hang on to believing he is the LOTU. There is no rationalization with them.
Those that were truth seekers left, the remainers keep on mutually masturbating with each other on the subject and look at at old dvds(which were meant to be destroyed...tut tut).
That's all for now. Take care.
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