|
|
|
When a failing cult leader can't find new followers, he looks to prisoners. There are so many ways this is wrong.
From the Belfast Telegraph:
"Indian guru Prem Rawat to help Northern Ireland prisoners channel inner selves" -- June 22, 2017
Northern Ireland prisoners are to be schooled in finding their "inner human" by a self-styled Indian spiritual guru.
Prem Rawat has been invited to pilot his peace education programme for 10 weeks at Maghaberry, where killers such as dentist Colin Howell and loyalist Michael Stone are held.
If his spiritual scheme is deemed a success, it will be rolled out in across Northern Ireland's other jails.
The rest of the article is here:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/indian-guru-prem-rawat-to-help-northern-ireland-prisoners-channel-inner-selves-35852891.html
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 07:07:47
|
|
|
|
|
At least they mentioned the Indian guru history rather than pushing him as an ambassador of peace. I wrote to the head of Thameside prison. I was asked to address my concerns to one person after another, and then I got no more replies. I guess a free 'peace education' program sounds better than providing no education program, in our severely cash-strapped prisons.
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I liked that they called him a guru.
|
|
|
|
Who is going to pay him? You can bet he's not doing it for free.
|
|
|
|
I am overwhelemed by a feeling a deep disgust right now.How is this possible?
13, you are courageous to write to those people and warn them. Hope your efforts will pay off
Greedy Rawat must be at the end of his rope though to go down the bowels to recruit.
Some involvement with the UN mentionned in this article. Can't they see he is a lunatic?!
I am sure not all prisoners are monsters though and it is sad for them that someone as unethical and thwarted as Rawat would be brought as spiritual comfort. They get really f...ed.
Modified by Inis at Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 13:13:29
|
|
|
|
Inis,
As with all of life's troubles, this too, shall pass.
Give yourself patience. You don't have to read all the posts. If this subject overwhelms you, take a short break, like 24 hours. 
Love,
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 14:20:29
|
|
|
|
I don't think there is any risk to myself in writing such things. I'm careful to stick to well known facts about Rawat's history - there's nothing libellous in what I say, and plenty to be said that suggests people shouldn't trust him or swallow his spiel piecemeal.
Years ago, premies did attack ex-premies online, and by contacting their employers and publishing websites with whatever dirt they could dig up, adding a good helping more and showing it in the worst light. Some of their accusations were just nuts, and very unpleasant. I think those days are over though.
Half the world seems to be pointing at someone saying 'Can't they see he is a lunatic? at the moment. Rawat is a fairly insignificant lunatic I think, except for those people closely involved.
I have yet to see any worthwhile result from my efforts.
|
|
|
|
The pathway to hell is paved with good-intentioned people. It looks to me like his prison program is to promote his charity status.
|
|
|
|
I agree with you Lesley that his prison program is to promote his charity status. I imagine his lawyers have advised him to do this-. I am now wondering how much of 'his' income goes on lawyers fees. anyway , glad I'm out and I can breathe again.
College.
|
|
|
|
I'm constantly on top of this stuff. Others groups too, like the 12 Tribes who prey on hippies, at Dylan or Grateful Dead shows.
|
|
|
|
Howdy, I have an alternative take on the idea of GMJ going into prisons, talking about peace and
teaching meditation. If I imagine myself incarcerated for a long term after a life that included very tough times
and likely more than my fair share of violence, and then I am locked up left to
my own devices within bleak lord of the flies surroundings, why would it be such a
bad thing to shift the conversation and learn beginning techniques of
meditation to practice? I have not seen GMJ for a very
long time, but it seems his current branding is as a teacher if taken at face
value, not necessarily a guru that one places on a pedestal and becomes
irrationally devoted to. And though his
philosophy and semantics lack cohesiveness and nuance, the apparent simplicity
of his message is clear enough to relate to, especially if being exposed to it for
the first time. As repugnant as it may be for us to see him gain adherents, raise his profile, validate the humanitarian
and not-for-profit structures that have allowed him to pile up wealth on the
backs of others (and of course a bunch of other odious shit)…..from the
perspective of one sitting in prison, depressed and perhaps hopeless, trading
on fear and anger, and with a ton of time on their hands, I think I kind of like the idea
(meaning that that the ‘good’ created would likely outweigh the ‘bad’). Having said that, I am sure there are better and more effective teachers out there along his themes. M
Modified by roark at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 15:37:39
|
|
|
|
Mike, I must disagree with you. I have worked with prisoners for 40 years. The best thing an inmate can do is get an education and learn a skill, and try to prepare himself for re-entry into the outside world if that is coming. This is utter garbage. Some smart inmate may learn a thing or two about setting up a cult and convincing people to give them money and unquestioning adoration though.
|
|
|
|
Agree Marianne.Rawat is not begnin, is not helpful either.
If some of those prisoners want to learn meditation or to relax, simple yoga or Vipassana could be taught.
Not sure how Rawat got his foot into this door. Clearly choices must have been influenced by some premie on board somewhere. Because he is a poor poor choice.
Modified by Inis at Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 10:56:57
|
|
|
|
Hi Marianne! I haven’t worked with prisoners, and so lack that
perspective. And I don’t disagree that the best thing would be for
prisoners to learn a way to make a legitimate living, but I don’t see why this
would be an either/or to also learning meditation. Further, I think my own meditation practice gave
me a deep-seated advantage when I became interested in business and since, not
to mention other beneficial side effects.
I’ll stick my neck out and say that some reflection might even clarify
why one would want to learn a skill and become more educated. But is what is taught in these prisons really
adoration-centric, more of a guru trip?
I don’t know, but if so, then it would totally suck, and I think I’d
have to reverse my opinion. But if the
conversation is geared towards learning a meditation practice and a shift
towards introspection and the possibility of contentment and also then applying
that to life ‘outside’, then I can’t see much harm (in comparison to the alternatives). I only watched the trailer for the peace /
prison propaganda documentary, but will try to find a way to watch the whole
thing (without giving them money). Of course, I see it as a mixed bag, with the negatives I
mentioned previously along with my thought that similar prison programs could
be much better presented via other teachings/teachers. One gnarly aspect of the dynamic is how teachings
seem to catch on better when coming from a central point, a leader. GMJ, with all his flies, provides that
vehicle, especially since he always seems so fucking sure of himself. While we see through it, his combo platter
has appeal to those that haven’t been there, done it yet, even providing legitimate inspiration to ‘look inside’. A sad
consequence is when one’s interest in meditation gets inextricably tied to the
teacher and then gets to peak behind the curtain (Wizard of Oz reference), and how this unravels one’s confidence
that it there really is something to gained by sitting down, shutting the fuck up,
clearing out and really stopping to listen beyond the noise. But at some point he (GMJ) becomes just another lesson
learned / stepping stone, except to those that really, really have their heads deep in the sand (apparently desperate to feel they are somehow more important due
to their proximity to the twisted celebrity that he provides, or whatever). M
Modified by roark at Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 11:41:24
|
|
|
|
Prem's meditation is a form of dissociation which can actually be detrimental to people suffering from trauma. It becomes the escape technique. That is why I personally had my head in the sand so long. The heirarchy thing just happened to come with the territory and like all the other 'ideas' out there around K , I just let it all happen until I didn't. Before I exited there were a number of contributing factors. One of them was treatment for PTSD. I honestly don't remember if that was before the first drip or not long after. Timelines gets pretty skewed in the memory Anyway, not long after that treatment, exiting the cult for me was pretty simple and fairly rapid and although tumultuous for a bit not overwhelming to the point of symptoms from PTSD, which beforehand may well have been triggered
My point being K does not give one coping skills, rather inhibits a natural progression, maybe more so if you already have an inhibiting factor there as with PTSD. Prisoners? prime candidates....
I think prem understands, at least at some level that people who are clutching at straws make the best long term prospects
I agree with Marianne, any skills to smooth the transition to society are going to be gold compared to K. The stress of managing those things is more than meditation can take away. If they feel the need for mentoring I cant think of a worse candidate. When they find out he had someone take the rap for manslaughter? what then?
No- if they are going to look up to anyone they should better have some moral gumption
|
|
|
|
Hey SuzyQ, Interesting that you monolithic-ly describe “Prem’s
meditation as a form of disassociation”.
I see it differently. I do think
our narratives frame what we experience, and I agree that it is certainly
possible to use K and any form of meditation to block out unpleasant things, unpleasant
because they are crying for attention and need to be addressed and so forth. But I have to refer to my own experience with
meditation (both using the K techniques for about 15 years and then the ‘techniques’
I have used for the past 30) which, rather than a blocking out and ‘dissociative’
process, has allowed deeply-held crud and poorly-reasoned ideas the space to
surface into awareness, and me to have the clarity of a somewhat uncluttered
mental state to recognize and even deal with my shit. I am not saying the meditation is a panacea
and that its misuse won’t bring harm, but that it definitely can have a honored
place in the tool box, next to interactive mechanisms and all that ‘works’ to
assist healing and growth. I already said that I think teaching meditation
with a philosophy around it would be better in other’s hands, but the concept
that teaching a way to calm down and even gain insight into what drives you (IE
a meditation technique) can be very helpful.
And I am not trying to defend Prem, which should be pretty clear from
all of my posts on this Forum. But I am convinced that what we
experience with the K ‘meditation’ techniques were/are affected by how we
approach them, our expectations and framing, and oddly end up being largely what we make it. I am also unconvinced that my own experience
with GMJ and all did not greatly benefit me and enrich my life. Of course, who knows how it could have been,
but the way things were going for me, it is not tough to see a likely
story. And I think somehow I have been
able to forgive myself for my own stupidity for falling in with him and staying
involved as long as I did, which takes off the edge a bit. M
|
|
|
|
When I read your descriptions of the value you get out of meditation I always end up thinking you've been using some of your meditation time for a bit of good old-fashioned introspection.
maybe you should do an experiment - no meditation allowed, no looping back to your breath, just introspection for a whole week, see where you end up!
|
|
|
|
Hi Lesley, Interesting comments, but when I sit, I don’t use breath as
a focus whatsoever and I do allow thoughts and feeling to arise unimpeded (though
‘introspection’ is likely too fancy a word for what I practice). It is tough to describe what happens, but it is kind of like
awareness just simply gets to be aware if itself, but is not really even an ‘experience’ in
as much as an experience implies that there are at least two things in play: an
experiencer plus an object of experience.
I would describe what happens more like ‘resting in myself’ or something goofy and
new age sounding like that. I don’t consider it a ‘spiritual’ practice anymore and am not that interested in
framing what it is or isn’t. Generally, the ‘sensation’ I get is very, very pleasant and I tend to ignore unusual phenomena and sensations (like seeing light) that may come up, unless somehow compelling and then I might pay attention. It’s my habit to sit for an hour or two daily, but if I miss
days (like to catch an early flight or if I lived a bit too well the night before
and have to get moving at a reasonable hour), it’s no big deal. I did quit sitting for a couple of years about 15 years ago
as a reality check and to see what might change, but then went back to it, no big
deal. I find creative solutions often get tapped when I sit, or I
become aware of them as I start the shift into my day. It’s as if my brain works better if I give it
some space, as opposed to trying to shove it around. I heard a cool story about how Thomas Edison had techniques
he came up with to access alternate cranial footpaths and solve scientific problems. Like, at night he’d sit in his favorite rocking
chair on a wood floor, resting his arms with a metal spoon held between the thumb
and forefinger of one hand. He’d concentrate
on a particular problem he was trying to solve as he grew sleepy, and at some
point he’d drift into sleep, relax his grip on the spoon which would fall to
the floor and wake him up. He claimed to
have some eureka, problem-solved! moments he attributed to accessing subliminal
states of consciousness using tricks like this. I suppose he recognized how ‘intelligence’ can
emanate out of the deep end of the pool, without much splashing. Mike
Modified by roark at Sat, Jul 08, 2017, 20:39:34
|
|
|
|
Thanks Mike, I do something very similar not on a timetable but most days for about 15 minutes at least, precisely because this is where my best ideas are. The solutions and intuitions I don't think of it, or call it meditating. Prem polluted the word for me, unfortunate but true. It is resting in myself and allowing my inner being some space. No guru required, unless it's myself. I think it's normal human being-ness
So pleased there's no freakin dvd attached or series of dvd's that might tell me it's inside of me while also implying I cant find it without the help of some greedy weirdo who wants my adoration real bad.... life is so simple without prem around.... after all that harping about simplicity
|
|
|
|
SQ
Right? 'Normal human being-ness' works for me, there is so much there to explore.
But, on the other hand, now that the best I have is now somehow relegated to 'awareness watching itself' or some other faux explanation, I am thinking again of going for "some greedy weirdo who wants my adoration real bad", yes another Guru, and latch onto something real black and white that I can really make sense of and propagate like crazy and sing Arti about. So I've started looking around for a first class avatar, with a REAL religion.
Right off the bat, I'm thinking TED Farkel, but I'm not sure he's up for having me as a devotee (especially after we couldn't get that Peace Explosion SATsang thing off the ground), but I have a very strong hunch he holds the real 'Keys' to the universe, and knows how to use them.
Another possibility is Simon Cowell. Don't laugh, but I think he is laying low, building his base, holding back some real cosmic wisdom and restraining his shakti big-time. It might be good to get close and be first in, before he bursts onto the universal scene.
I have some other ideas too, all good ones. Have any guru prospects for me?
Anyway, getting late here.
be well, M
Modified by roark at Sat, Jul 08, 2017, 22:25:27
|
|
|
|
That was a nice story about Thomas Edison and i liked your description of how 'intelligence can emanate out of the deep end of the pool' - perhaps Tarvuist might find that more acceptable than my 'knowing when you don't know'.
I just looked up introspection and meditation in the dictionary - introspection is actually the simpler word meaning examination of ones thoughts and feelings whereas meditation is more complex meaning thinking deeply, discoursing on a particular subject, making a specific plan or it means to focus one's mind for religious spiritual or relaxation purposes.
So I guess the question is what makes that hour or two that you sit different from an hour or two sitting on the verandah. What are you focusing your mind on? Most meditation techniques are chanting, inner chanting (mantra) or breath. oh I suppose focusing on a specific spot like a chakra or the ones we did - our inner ear?
If you are just sitting quietly and waiting to see what comes up then that's introspection. If the way you get to be sitting quietly is by employing a meditation technique then are you still meditating or does it turn to introspection?
My observation as a relatively new premie is that if it weren't for Maharaji I wouldn't have made the effort to meditate so consistently - I only did it because I believed it was fundamentally important to do, but if I hadn't believed that I wouldn't have done it so much, it would have been a casual thing, like having a go with a ouija board or whatever.
So there i am, Ms PremieJi, grateful that I had been inspired to commit to meditation so that now I had this experience which I would never have got to otherwise.
Actually the perseverance was mine.
It was a positive delight to undo all the stitches and get back to normal operation - I am naturally inclined to need plenty of introspection - and now I could get back to it business as normal. For the first three weeks I would wake up and think time to meditate and then remember I didn't have to, sigh happily and relax back and have a nice bit of introspection aka snoozing instead. 
|
|
|
|
Happy Sunday Lesley! Yeah, I’d say that what I am doing is different than sitting on the veranda, and is
a more concentrated event geared towards becoming completely still. I sit motionless, close my eyes and ignore
sensory elements, and when thoughts slow down and even drop away, feelings associated
with my mental constructs do the same. It's essentially a concentrated process of deconstruction and dropping. My practice started with focus on specific objects, morphed over time and now has more to do with hanging out in a
wordless ‘feeling world’, so to speak. The
residual sense is of being very free, awake, full and in the moment. Pretty
crude, huh? I guess call it "sitting", for lack of a better word. I’ve been thinking about 'framing’, frames of reference that once embedded, have the deep-seated ability
to drive our experiences, and how these frames work, how they limit; and how
they may help provide needed boundaries, how assimilating new intentions can
serve to undermine existing, more self-limiting worldviews and embedded
ideas. Vows and deeply-held beliefs,
especially those that are repeated and drilled in, flex their muscles as key drivers and powerful subliminal forces that influence outcomes and what we experience. even in 'meditation'. Look at the brainwashing that occurred, the words to Arti for example (you are my mother, you are my father,…..). I think voicing that drivel in song every day, with emotion and earnestness, had a profound effect, got deep in our
bones. Not to mention all that 'satsang', the Indian Guru trip meme, etc. No wonder that it can be pretty tough
to undo. Meditation is obviously a word used for a multitude of different activities, some of them very
beneficial in my opinion. Too bad that M
(never owning the copyright) may have co-opted the idea of meditation for many of us,
and extremely sad the idea of quiet concentration and 'sitting with ourselves’ got
all mixed up and polluted by association with the rest of it. Having said that, snoozing is good, as is veranda sitting of course (if you have one, and especially with a good glass of wine, or the rum cocktails I have been making lately). Mike
Modified by roark at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 18:06:41
|
|
|
|
Modified by tarvuist at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 19:32:46
|
|
|
|
Hi Roark,
I thought in the interests of scientific experiment I would attempt to meditate the way you describe. Oh dear it has been funny, I have had numerous attempts.
I am very well rested now.
Yes my brain has changed since I last tried to meditate, I had no idea how much! anyway, the experiment shall continue and I will report back in due course.
but so far from my perspective what it did was catapult me into deep snooze without taking care of business first. I didn't like stopping most of my thoughts and found it a bit uncomfortable at times, but on the plus side was the instant catapult into being face to face with feelings. I loved that bit.
But i think you have to grasp life with both hands. so I think I'll keep on doing the thinking. One day, when I was still a premie, I was lying in a hospital bed with broken bones and in a lot of pain - I started to meditate. It didn't help at all. Quite the reverse, it meant my attention wasn't there with me helping me handle the pain. I could hear the cries of a man across the corridor who had lost it in the pain and I didn't want to be him. I stopped meditating and started on the long road home.
It was a very bumpy road but it evened out when I found the forum and got a helping hand.
One thing I remember saying was that it wasn't just that Rawat wasn't what he said he was, it was that he was so horrible. You know, you pick up an imitation apple and bite into it, it's not just that it isn't going to feed you, it matters what it's made of.
I agreed with what Cynthia was saying in her post below about the peace for prisoners thing - we know what's in the package - enhancement for his charity status translating into dollars and aggrandisement for Rawat.
You can't separate the meditation from the giver.
Modified by lesley at Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 14:45:53
|
|
|
|
Lesley
No, you can separate the meditation from the giver, as I did many, many years ago.
M
|
|
|
|
OK hmm, tricky subject...where to start? All that mental rewind gets you no-where imo. Whether to meditate or not can't possibly be the question. There was a time when laying in bed listening to the meadowlark was sublime beyond compare. And yet we grow into adults with incoming space invaders requiring constant vigilance. Where does the disturbance originate I wonder ? And why are we asking these questions ?
The evolutionary split I suppose...is any life free of conflict ?
Modified by Manincar at Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 19:16:05
|
|
|
|
"all that mental rewind gets you no-where imo"
I get that - I agree with you - the value I have gotten from backstitching tho is better integrity of beliefs. Now I have to say good enough and do a bit of running stitch. I do recognise that.
It's already starting to happen, it's fun.
imo thousands of years ago the idea of god was exploded by the idea that there is one god and a bit of him in everyone. well we all love our god don't we and if he's in everyone we should be loving everyone and we can't. good grief. integrity of soul smashed to pieces.
so we are asking questions a few thousand years later trying to work out what happened to our souls.
(okay don't take that entirely seriously )
|
|
|
|
Thanks Lesley, you make existentialism sound normal and possibly even fun again.
cheers
|
|
|
|
I remember reading Jean Paul Sartre as a young teenager, I thought it was very good so I'm rather chuffed that you think I qualify as an existentialist.
I don't know if I do - I just went and looked it up and there is so much to read I don't think I'll do it, but they probably have a lot more ideas than I do.
The point I grasped is that of scale. It's my very human-sized head that is doing the thinking.
I can confidently say people are not interchangeable because I don't try and have a view that is beyond the scope of my head. Yes I know people die and get replaced and from that perspective or the 'we are all made of dust' one, you could think of people as being entirely interchangeable but it simply isn't like that for us - can you imagine trying to swop your children with the ones your neighbour has?
I simply decided to stop bothering my head with stuff that it didn't have no truck with. I might be intelligent but I believe so easily I'm a fool, natural fodder, I need all the help I can get just to navigate my way around all the liars and manipulators without being tripped up and, well I haven't got a good track record, tho it is going a lot better now with the wisdom of hindsight.
Modified by lesley at Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 17:50:32
|
|
|
|
Not in my world you can't. No way would I want to even try. I'm not remotely Buddhisty about this. People are people and not interchangeable.
So my questions are (don't answer unless you feel like it) - do you think the meditation you do now is different to the one you did as a premie?
Did you think of Rawat as inconsequential to your experience in meditation when you were a premie?
|
|
|
|
No, you can separate the meditation from the giver, as I did many, many years ago.
But that's not what Rawat, et al, are hawking. Their wares make the two inseparable, as you ought to well know.
I'm glad if you separated the meditation. But, you still used the word "giver."
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 14:28:00
|
|
|
|
hi Lesley, I also fall asleep on a regular basis when i rest in myself... that's part of the fun, allowing myself to nap if I want and not feel like my 'meditation' didnt count because i wasn't concentrating.Not concentrating is what i'm going for , for about 15 mins, just feeling good and content for a bit, without thinking about the various snags that are taking up my attention. If that turns into a power nap so be it. I would shudder to call that meditation or have any connotation to rawat connected to anything I do.
If I dont concentrate on the problem, it's easier for me to see solutions I find, so I use this exercise most days. Find something I feel relaxed about, maybe a bird outside singing, maybe a gentle emotion from a memory, maybe the feel of my pillow or the cat curled up with me. I never know what and don't plan that , I just reach for something to keep me feeling rested. I think it's the sort of thing I would do as a child, just step away from stuff and let myself just be happy anyway for a bit, press the reset button. As a child I also had no problem allowing that to turn into a nap. I saw a joke the other day, something about someone doing an 'all dayer' meaning they hadn't taken a nap... hahah, I could relate
|
|
|
|
i liked your description of how 'intelligence can emanate out of the deep end of the pool' - perhaps Tarvuist might find that more acceptable than my 'knowing when you don't know'.
No actually I think you're both fallen off the deep end of the pool, or over the edge of the limitless metaphysical universe. It's all soft-headed nonsense, mush-minded muddled hooey. But then I have doubts about that because of Roark's levels of success in the practical world. Maybe he knows a trick or two about these things. It could be it's me looking through my blurry lenses and identifying nothing but blur?! Anyway I salute your not-knowingness and Roark's fancy sitting, likely both utterly more advanced states of realization than my own self-recognized wonderful state of Real-ization. I do know Roark was a pretty ferocious meditator in those days we were roomates, anyway showing admirable evidence of stillness in semi-lotus. Maybe he was just good at remaining planked vertical while asleep, or in upright introspection or whatever -- but very good company he was -- though he persuaded me to empty the trash daily (inside joke) -- come to think of it, that may have some cosmic meaning and value. Excuse me while I go now and introspect about this.
Modified by tarvuist at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 19:21:42
|
|
|
|
Actually I have much respect for Roark's daily sitting practice, was just pulling his leg there. The other, "knowing when you don't know" is a bit sensibly beyond me though.
Modified by tarvuist at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 19:36:18
|
|
|
|
Yo Taruvist!
Don't diminish the skill involved in upright sleeping and soft-headed nonsense, which continues to serves me well (especially at tech conventions and as far as I know).
You may have read in an above post that I am guru shopping, (and apologies to Forumites but) really need someone to devote myself to, take the reins of my life, etc. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, or if you looking for devotees, or if you think I should just hang up the whole eastern thing and join Tarvuism (it's so easy BTW). TED is of course number one on my search list, but he may have gotten swallowed by a carp or worse.
Let me know, thanks man.
XO,M
|
|
|
|
You may have read in an above post that I am guru shopping, ...really need someone to devote myself to, take the reins of my life, etc.
I noticed that Mr. Roark and I've been wracking my brains for hours as to who would be best for you right at this advanced stage of your enlightened progress. I should mention, Tarvuism is neither east nor west, it's encompasses the whole entire thing of the huge Everything and more than just that. It's pretty large. You can maybe even know it without knowing it. I'm not so sure about TED, yet if Jim Colpas is giving satsang there, you'd better stop by and open up your heart and listen listen.
But I've concluded you need no one, you should let those reins of your life loose dancing in the great non-winds of emptiness now for awhile and see where your stallions want to go on their own. Don't stop that sitting though; if for nothing else it'll keep you out of the usual trouble for an hour a day while your horses take you up greater elevations. Maybe that's what you're doing, call it what you will.
Modified by tarvuist at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 22:05:46
|
|
|
|
I lived in the Wallingford Road Brighton premiehouse with Jim colpas around 1974. I was house mother there and a Dan from Hawaii who later became an instructor. There was Ginny, Drew, Scott, Stephanie, Peter, Malcolm, Mark, Shirley. Some of us worked at the divine food co-op. What happened to him? Or any of them?
|
|
|
|
What happened to him? Or any of them?
I'm really curious to know everything about the lives of all my old friends and acquaintances, but I'm little inclined to public sharing of info about them without their permission (well, maybe unless I feel like correcting misinformation in their defense). I recognize some of those names you mention from Brighton (for you UK chaps, it's the Boston suburb, not your more famous town), but I haven't kept track of most any of the premies for almost 10 years now, although I've known one or two who you ask about, anyway not since I passed through the "evolutionary split" -- if I can steal Manincar's phrase (not sure what he meant by it) and apply it to my leaving all that past behind.
Modified by tarvuist at Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 20:42:16
|
|
|
|
No, I know it's not appropriate to talk about people here, I just got nostalgic when you mentioned Jim. Speaking for myself as someone who occasionally stops in and out of this forum, mostly to hear the Fraud is finally over somehow, but also to reach out to any of us who have been touched by this phenomena. But now I am also reminded of what it was to not be a super premie; to be a second-class citizen. To know every body when nobody knew me. And suddenly do feel that there was a responsibility, and this is only in my opinion, that mistreating one another was in some peoples personalities to want to do that control over others and it wasn't just following agya. Not everybody came to be in a loving Community; not everyone who stayed is in denial.
|
|
|
|
I think I understand you. And just a comment or two... Not in any way to forgive fraud in its practice or its despicable purveyors, but I guess there will be fraud around until the human race is transformed into angels (which I wish might happen sooner than later but I'm not holding my breath until that happens), and until then probably prevalent mistreatment mindlessly cruel and horrible beyond imagination in the world it seems, and everywhere rampant urges to control others (multiple reasons: out of competition, fear of losing position, raw animal ambition, or from some part of human inclinations including the myriad un-angelic urges).
Meantime for myself, other than occasionally tilting against the dragons I keep to my own garden now, try to keep reasonable control over my own demons and avoid exposure to others', and hoping eventually to be a better person if I have another 50 years to live in which to achieve that...
Not sure about super-premie vs. second class citizen; for myself, although with plenty of muffled horrid (or healthy) ego and pride, I always felt others were the more super-er of premies, superior or luckier, many in much better "favor" and elite in progress, while I just made every effort to my own best lights, even so when as an instructor though a rather unknown one I felt unspokenly among the elite, and even for instance when chuffed by M having a nickname with which he would chide me around his home, and whatnot other evidence of "success" or security or self-enlightenment in the awful formidable weathers of life, evidence that meant something real even if maybe only to me. I naturally regret any and every part I may have participated in supporting and propagating unknowingly and unintentionally hurtful myth to some, psychic distortion or economic injury to myself and to others via a vampiric "non-profit" self-styled beneficent organization for the upliftment every one of mankind. Yes, even with all the individual and group good intention, not everyone was always loving in our loving Community of premies, but at least not many proponents of outright terror that I noticed, if that can be said as a caveat of balanced outlook in the presently wild world prior to our angelic transformation...
Nice to trade thoughts and reminisce with you about these things.
I may be imagining it in memory, but I think last time I saw Jim he had a fabulous beard and Walt Whitmanesque aspect about him, and certainly a good-natured smile.
Modified by tarvuist at Tue, Jul 11, 2017, 18:14:07
|
|
|
|
Thank you for your thoughtful response. My experience in the Boston community was actually a very positive one in those early years.
|
|
|
|
The problem I have with the idea is that it assumes Rawat is legitimate. He is not. Rawat is a crook and should be locked up with the inmates for all his crimes against humanity. He is also not a benevolent leader and is out to take advantage of anyone he can for his own selfish purposes. He can't be trusted in any position of authority especially as a teacher where trust from the student is critical. Love ya Roark and this makes for interesting conversation but come on..... Rawat cannot be separated from his past and needs to be branded and exposed as the scam artist he is and always will be. Sociopaths cannot be cured and are a threat to society as long as they exist.
|
|
|
|
Jasper, Love you too, man. And I don’t disagree with anything you have written. But I wonder just how he is now presented to those convicts, what the
current spin is?, and would be interested to know (short of doing something
that would leave me incarcerated in an Irish prison). For me the interesting conversation is around how good can come from sketchy
circumstances, and whether (from the perspective of a convict that would not
otherwise be exposed to something like meditation) this exposure will have a
beneficial effect on them and thus positively impact those around him. Can we REALLY assume that we know the answer
to this? The storybooks are full of flawed ‘spiritual teachers’ that have inspired positive
change. Like Trungpa, who was flawed but
I found to be very lovable, fascinating and inspirational. Sucks that I ended up spending as much time as I did with
the bloated one. M
Modified by roark at Sat, Jul 08, 2017, 13:52:19
|
|
|
|
Again, Roarky you make great points. However, this one is a bit short on
brains. Perhaps if the room were configured lengthwise instead of widthwise and a prisoner sat way in the back
and didn’t get an upclose look at the effects of alcohol’s wear and tear on a
nearly 60-year-old, totally out of shape, rich, never-worked-a-day-in-his-life,
eighth-grade dropout, it might have a somewhat calming effect on Irish muggers, murderers and rapists [perhaps]. But perhaps his “education”
program works because it’s once again just that perfect combination of awesome baritone, beautiful Queen’s English, and saying
nothing much except “hi” that is so hypnotizing.
Perhaps it's just a chance for the prisoners to get out of the cell for a few minutes of peace and quiet from the wankers everywhere there. That squeaky cute voice alone, a nice lilting giggle and some silk, laundered, white kurta and pajama
outfits did the trick when he was 13 in the old, bearded hippy days in his tent in the foothills. Fool me one, fool me twice. I dunno know how that thing goes. Love you anyway
|
|
|
|
I'm sure we both agree that the only reason to get off his duff and visit the nice prisoners is to show the US IRS that his TPRF is legit. He's done it, even if it's a crock. Fine, now he can unlimitedly fundraise from his few rich devotees left to donate via the tax-free blessed Foundation and do the exact same thing: Fly around the world and have unlimited happy hours, especially flying west.
|
|
|
|
I'm sure we both agree that the only reason to get off his duff and visit the nice prisoners is to show the US IRS that his TPRF is legit. He's done it, even if it's a crock. Fine, now he can unlimitedly fundraise from his few rich devotees left to donate via the tax-free blessed Foundation and do the exact same thing: Fly around the world and have unlimited happy hours, especially flying west.
|
|
|
|
Yo OTS, Always nice to provide an opportunity for you to get a few more licks in, now that you can
balance out the fierce devotion you long felt to his person (that I envied
because I didn’t). Hey, you in the City next week?? Grab you for
beers? Insult each other in person?? Mikey
Modified by roark at Sat, Jul 08, 2017, 13:50:38
|
|
|
|
Modified by OTS at Sat, Jul 08, 2017, 15:22:54
|
|
|
|
COLL, wow, blast from the past
What part of town you in?
M
|
|
|
|
I'm splitting a condo with Jim Colpas at the new TED Farkel Tower and Golf Resort just a 25-minute pontoon boat ride up the Delta from Mobile. Them alligators really don't care for the impact of my four iron I carry at all times, storing the bag and the rest of the set in the locker room. Jim's nonstop satsang is startin to grate, however. I recall writing before the story of the time Jim, at the ashram dinner table, scratched his forehead and out came a (bloody) two inch piece of CAR WINDSHIELD from an accident he had as a teen. Woah.
Modified by OTS at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 06:53:39
|
|
|
|
Excellent, we can meet up there! Say hi to Jim please, and I am sure you don’t have to remind him that without Maharaji’s grace, he’d still
have that glass in his head. And you
might want to look at why that grate’s on you (a bit more surrender perhaps?). After my own two failed attempts at becoming a guru, I am thinking of throwing in with TED, if he’ll
have me as a devotee, and so this is timely.
I wonder how he is faring with those odd skull growths and sudden additional
toes, strange, but I’m sure he’ll find a way to take advantage of it. See you soon, M
Modified by roark at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 13:37:59
|
|
|
|
Great. I have an early tee time on the new TPC at Charnanand Farms, so we can meet after for some possum tempora at Daya's Dogs and Charnamrit Juice Bar. I'm so in my mind.
Modified by OTS at Sun, Jul 09, 2017, 17:36:12
|
|
|
|
The fact that Rawat, et al, are going after people who are in prison validates what all the cult experts say about cult leaders going after the most vulnerable in our society.
I don't know how the "peace education program" works, but my guess is that they show videos of Rawat speaking. Those prisoners willfully will walk into a room where the Rawat programs are held but it's still a bait and switch, and not much different from when I walked into a satsang room and felt good. PEP is another deception because of Rawat's long history of being a personality cult leader.
He's a toxic person. It's still a personality cult with Rawat at the top, whether or not overt worship is displayed anymore.
And the knowledge meditation is horrible for people who have mental illness issues. It's a mind-stopping meditation and that's not what anyone who sufferes from mental health problems needs in life. It can cause people to suppress the depression (or any other troubles they might have). That's bad for people. Prisoners need a way to become independent, trained in trades or professions, not how to meditate on a bleeping light, breath, music, or snot, while listening to a moron.
Roark, it's still a personality cult that's toxic. I find it hard to grok that you have a blind spot regarding the meditation and the connection to Rawat personally, that is a major piece of the Rawat religion: we were taught to believe our experience came directly from Rawat himself, as the Lord of the Universe.
He has a lot of nerve to insinuate himself into institutions like prisons. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's fraudulent and premies don't know because they are still stuck in their Rawat toxic belief system.
Thats why it's so wrong.
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 07:57:36
|
|
|
|
Cynthia,
I see it slightly differently, (per the various perspectives I've voiced)
I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla (and not black and white).
M
|
|
|
|
What qualifications does Rawat have to run anything? The fact that he's run a cult since he was a teenager? The fellow has never read a book except plane manuals (presumably he's read those?). He has never studied anything, never published any research, he has no clue. He knows nothing more about peace than how to spell the word. He probably knows less about meditation than even I do (I've done some). What the hell does he know about psychology that might be some use to prisoners, or philosophy, or anything except how to con people?
The man is a complete fraud, and if he had to present his qualifications in front of an interview panel for a job designed to improve the lives of prisoners, there wouldn't even be anything to throw in the bin.
|
|
|
|
I believe Rawat likes his airplane manuals. During DECA he was interested in accident reports, gory details included. He read those.
|
|
|
|
Howdy 13, I fail to see how I am really disagreeing with you
(especially if you’ll read what I wrote carefully). I am really saying that, regardless the source, learning how
to still and focus the mind can be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. The idea that one should not have a
meditation practice because some asshole happens to teach a particular version
of it is short-sighted. Note that prisoners are not a sub-species, just people like
us that are in a challenging situation due to prior challenging positions, etc. Of course learning skills and such are a good
thing, and of course GMG is a manipulative asshole, yada, yada, yada I look at all of it a lot of ways. For example, I really enjoyed my life as a
premie, I actually relished my time in the Ashram with the vast majority of the experiences I had
and the friends I made, I also enjoyed the freedom of leaving all of the bullshit
behind, I like myself and what I have become, I still love to sit (and meditate). Of course I do not like the delusion
associated with GMJ and K, and feel foolish about some of what I bought into
and such, but I suppose I have forgiven myself.
Bear in mind that, although I saw him as my guru, I never gave him omniscient
powers and avatar status in my mind, have been exposed to the eastern guru
scene and similar philosophies earlier. This
is generally how I feel about my own experience. In other words, for me I feel that some great
stuff came from that very odd environment, and I know it’s also true for
others. On the convict thing, I only pointed out that there can be
good come of that program as well. What’s
so hard to understand about this perspective?
I’ll bet that some convicts will benefit from that program. OK, OK, let’s once again recite the litany about harboring pedophiles,
suicides, lost dreams and all of those very real things. Yes that is real. But at the same time, it does not mean that
what I am expressing is not also real. Anywho, M
|
|
|
|
Sure, learning how to be still and focus the mind could be useful, and I too often had a good time in my early cult days.
But it's still a cult, and Rawat is still a manipulative asshole as you put it. So yeah, perhaps make meditation classes available to those interested, but I wouldn't let a manipulative asshole anywhere near those classes.
After many years of privatising prisons in the UK, conditions inside are dire, with massive staff shortages and difficulty providing the most basic services. So I get it that some dodgy outfit can volunteer to offer meditation classes and get a free pass. Anybody holding something paddle shaped is welcome up shit creek.
What would be much more useful to prisoners in the long run and to society would be to once again have prisons run by the state, recognising that prisons are a basic necessity, and that how they are run is far more important than simply farming them out to the company that offers to run them at the lowest price.
Besides that, I question the link between the benefits you personally have described and Rawat. Rawat spent very little of his time with us teaching us how to meditate (what's to teach - there's really not that much to say about quieting yourself down) and much more time undermining the values most people take for granted (family, career, a sense of purpose in life).
I too have had profound experiences meditating, but I don't do it any more. Just a bit, as I lie back in the dentist's chair is all. I have learned to focus and be calm(er) in tricky circumstances, and to step back and take in a bigger perspective than chasing the nearest craving. I learned too from being a member of a large group of mostly accommodating people. And I learned from chasing Rawat around the world to the extent of often being totally broke, no food, no accommodation, sleeping rough.
But mostly I think I learned because time passed, stuff happened, and I grew up, like we all did.
Despite the fact that some of us learned some stuff and some had some good times, I think Rawat did a lot more harm than good, and I don't think the argument that some prisoners might benefit from his videos is good enough.
|
|
|
|
"And I learned from chasing Rawat around the world to the extent of often being totally broke, no food, no accommodation, sleeping rough."
well one thing you can learn from that is that you've got what it takes. good for you.
great post.
|
|
|
|
Thanks.
About sleeping 'rough' - I've always liked it. In my early teens, it seemed an adventure to sleep in the forest a few miles from home, usually alone. Given the choice, I'd rather sleep on the open than a hotel (assume half decent weather, pleasant or at least benign dossing opportunities). So that predilection allowed me to happily set off hitching across Europe or America to a festival with nothing more than a few quid in my pocket for food.
Last year I cycled down France in Spring, and slept each night in a hammock, and often lay awake listening to nightingales. One time I awoke to see the sky lightening, and was mildly annoyed as I was still tired. I figured it was dawn, the birds were singing so madly. I waited till it got light enough to get up, and when it did, I realised it was the full moon rising, not the sun, and I still had many hours of sleep ahead.
It was only hard to sleep because the moonlight and the nightingales were so enchanting. Beyond a 5 star hotel.
|
|
|
|
what a lovely story. Thank you.
I could not agree more about sleeping outdoors rather than a luxury hotel. And there's no doubt the best food comes off an open fire.
|
|
|
|
" I actually relished my time in the Ashram with the vast majority of the experiences I had and the friends I made,"
It really is a mystery to me Roark how you relished something which, for me ,was a kind of creepy experience of voluntarily rejecting my own identity. Yes, I had been persuaded/manipulated into throwing myself on the scrap heap. I gave everything up and I didn't matter any more. I lived in first an unofficial and then an official ashram. It really was devastating for me. There were some positive by-products.....I stopped going down a drugs route; but what I really needed was care and counselling for lost teenagers.....I didn't need to join a cult that stole my soul.To this day, I really resent the way that I veered right off my natural path because of a false promise and fear.
Recently I went to the first programme I have attended since 2002 . He came to my home town and an old premie friend rang me and gave me a spare ticket ( cost £25 btw .....I gave her half back). It is all much the same as ever it was but with everybody holding back on over-exuberance ( clearly under instruction). Such a long time since I had seen this dapper little man. The speech was the usual boring stuff spoken with quite a kind and sweet tone. However , here and there, as always , there were cutting remarks which undermined our confidence in our everyday lives....kind of ridiculing us, telling us that basically we were all miserable,depressed,unhappy creatures who hated getting up in the morning,and hated our jobs etc, with absolute certainty! Once we were thus defined by the Lord we were threatened with either following his advice ( agya/orders ) to climb out of this apparent abyss or falling further into this hum-drum purposeless pit. I am not quoting him, because the text is infinitely forgettable, but just giving the gist ( with which most of you are familiar) , in my own words. He boasted quite a lot about his "achievements"and awards around the world and the premies sucked it up. There were pre-chosen questions, which mostly were not really answered but used as launching pads for what Prem wanted to talk about.
By the end, you knew you were a worthless ant in this vast universe and that everything you did was useless.....unless .....
I felt all the old feelings of hopelessness creeping up on me........AAAAARGH ! and couldn't get away and back to normality fast enough ....phew !
One last thing...there was a kind of P.R. lady with Rawat who continually informed us of her name ( but I can't remember ). She was quite loud and sparky,wearing a bright orange dress, and did a good job of seeming to be relaxed. A bit like a T.V. presenter. She addressed the audience and Prem Rawat....a bit like Holly Willoughby ( British Breakfast TV presenter)...all very friendly. I realised how out of touch I was when I heard the pronunciation of Rawat's name.....with the stress on the FIRST syllable: RAwat.....Prem RAwat.
Modified by lexy at Fri, Jul 14, 2017, 09:21:03
|
|
|
|
"I didn't need to join a cult that stole my soul"
yes, that's how I feel. and I was simply being polite. Oh God wants to talk to me, I better see what he has to say...27 years later...omg, RaWat doesn't give a rat's ar$e, he's been lying to me.
it's funny, it never occurred to me that he would have problems in reverting to his real name, but of course we all pronounce it wrong. I had a friend who was in the service thing and she was always correcting me RAwat and I'd correct myself. Then I thought oh for heavens sake we're both exiting, RaWat it is.
|
|
|
|
Hi Roark, I think it's good that you have forgiven yourself, massive perspective whenever that happens.I feel that all the good I got from my 30 years was my own good stuff, I wrapped it up in special K, justifying my cult involvement, but once exiting I realised -that was all me, every bit of it. Considering everything he offers is illusory how could it be otherwise... my various experiences of sublime sychronicity and all that other good stuff was because I am really good at all that, still now as before, and way before I entered the cult.
I had no explanations for my vivid inner life and rawat at the time seemed to know what i was talking about because he generalised and poeticised everything, I filled in the gaps with my own optimism and idealism and subliminally i handed him the power.
Maybe I wasn't ready then to claim my own. Perhaps for that reason, who knows, i may well have been mixed up with other people and outfits to give my personal power to in that time, if not to him, but I doubt if any of that would have wound me up into a hard to escape Houdini knot for 30 years...speculation gets me no where on that front though.
Ultimately we cant help evolving and growing and rawat took the credit ( and i gave it) for any growth. However, speculating again, I sometimes feel my progress would have been more wholesome and decidedly more rapid if I had not been engaged with a cult that just had me marking time and going around in circles.
Either way it's nice to know that all that good, either with other premies, in my inner experiences or in any aspect of life lived then and now is entirely me and mine alone. One thing's for sure our beliefs colour our experience more than I have understood in the past. I have taken every ounce of wonderful and intergrated it into my being and OWNED it. I am now my own property, my decisions, my self and no greedy dullard at the healm
He is pretty useless. Offers next to nothing, yet requires so much.
Stilling the mind is normal human behaviour and happens quite naturally. I know when my head is too busy, I know what that feels like and I seek to slow down and calm the brain and be still and breathe and switch off. No need to make it into a religion, down pour of holy name and other anglicised romantic hindu notions. My dog knows more about meditation than rawat does and is a pretty profound teacher on many levels.
I suppose i was wanting to learn about myself, but i ended up learning more about how to keep myself on a straight and too narrow path that just stifled me in the end. Second guessing became second nature.
If breath awareness is meditation, babies and animals do it all the time, its not something that needs to be called anything, simply relaxation is one of the things that is missing from our lives sometimes.
I like that you are optimistic possibly idealistic and not quick to blame. Not bad strategies for life IMO. It's nice to not feel heavily burdened by the past and all it's evil effects, I agree
I would hesitate to call anything meditation though, because at the heart of it we were promised enlightenment, the ceasing of suffering from this world PEACE and all sorts of other religious mania that really has no basis.
He is not even a natural born leader, he is NOT inspiring, he is boring to say the least and has nothing real to say. As Lexy pointed out in a post above, amongst the kind tone of the last event she went to was the undermining of confidence in ones own life, enough to keep you hooked and yearning. K for me was always this double edged sword of yearning unfulfilled- littered with brief moments of bliss. It's a sick way to live as far as I'm concerned.
Nowadays my friends say, wow, you handled that so well, you seem stronger and stable in yourself. Those that knew me in cult days....... I am far more resilient now, I feel it Lo and behold nothing to do with him.
If I was still in there I would be falling apart at the minute and trying to rustle up the money to get to the next event so my master can instruct me somehow in what to do because he knows! and he cares about me!
yeah right
breathe!!!! lol
|
|
|
|
Hey SuzyQ,
Great post, thanks. Resiliency is good!
And sounds like you have an exceptional dog! I've always loved dogs, and finally am developing a high regard for cats, given me relationship with the two feral dudes that have adopted me. They bring some honestly and dispassion with their game, not unkind, but aloof until they, on their own terms, want something of me. They also do very goofy shit, clownish antics as if they have a sense of humor (and particularly enjoy self-deprecating humor).
Anyway, can we get your dog up to Omega Institute to give a seminar??
M
|
|
|
|
haha, he prefers his own territory, he's not after any glory in particular and a bit worried that he might get fat and overly proud.He has a delightful sense of humour and a goofy grin. The cat does rule the roost though, her sense of humour is a little more edgy and inevitably involves claw action if she gets too excited, then no one wants to play with her anymore. Sometimes I will come home and they are sitting close to one another, basking in the aura of one another peacefully, but not too close. I marvel at the fact that the dog knows right from wrong. He will automatically defend any victim. He used to have a great relationship with horses! and would stand in the paddock and 'talk' to them, that was after months standing on the bridge looking at the paddock and just watching them with admiration. Once he was given horse meat to eat, he eats everything, but he wouldn't touch it and turned his nose up at it repeatedly. The next day he was in the horse paddock conversing with the horses. I told my son, he's telling them about the horse meat! On one of the visits to his horse friends one of the horses leaned over the fence to sniff him and the electric fence was on for a change, the horse got a shock and bolted which frightened the dog so much he has stopped visiting them
|
|
|
|
Reread what he said 13:
"If I imagine myself incarcerated for a long term after a life that included very tough times, and likely more than my fair share of violence, and I am locked up left to my own devices within bleak lord-of-the-flies surroundings, why would it be such a bad thing to shift the conversation and learn beginning techniques of meditation to practice? From the perspective of one sitting in prison, depressed and perhaps hopeless, trading on fear and anger, and with a ton of time on their hands, I think I kind of like the idea (meaning that that the ‘good’ created would likely outweigh the ‘bad’).
I’ll stick my neck out and say that some reflection might even clarify why one would want to learn a skill and become more educated. Having said that, I am sure there are better and more effective teachers out there along his themes.
Teaching a way to calm down and even gain insight into what drives you (i.e. a meditation technique) can be very helpful. And I am not trying to defend Prem, which should be pretty clear from all of my posts on this Forum.
You can separate the meditation from the giver, as I did many, many years ago."
Modified by Steve at Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 18:33:42
|
|
|
|
I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla (and not black and white).
Sometimes a subject is black and white. Like, cult, cult leader, cult members, recruitment, and the trap. Can't separate them because they operate together.
Your opinion, frankly, baffles me because I'm not thinking in black and white, rather, I'm thinking that so long as Rawat is the purveyor or grantor of peace through Knowledge and it's associated meditation techniques, it's a fraud.
Therefore, it's immoral for Rawat and his premies to present it anywhere, much less where people are incarcerated.
Why not just show a tape where the techniques are taught and Bob's your uncle? They're being indoctrinated first and that makes it immoral and wrong.
So yes, it is black and white, actually.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Jul 12, 2017, 12:32:48
|
|
|
|
Totally. No sniffs and butts.
|
|
|
|
The guru Prisoner
Maybe the Master had a Dream.
I wonder if he and his cohorts know that he will be incarcerated one day, and this is the only way he could think of to not get his ass kicked.
He fucked over thousands all over the world...he thinks it's millions, but I think more of you left him than he knows...one way or another...I have a feeling there were way more suicides than we'll ever know, and even more who ran so far they never looked back to join us.
He knows he's a criminal, and he knows where criminals go...he just doesn't know which country will get him first. His narcissistic nature probably assumes that Interpol is secretly after him, just waiting for the right door to open. If he can be recognized in some non threatening way in prisons around the globe, then maybe he could relax about it...his crimes. Whichever country's prisons he manages to con, are the ones he won't have to hide from or fight. He can surrender, and do his time, where nothing would really change for him. He doesn't give a shit about the people in prison, come on. We all know WHO he lives his life for. The PEP program is nothing more than fancy robes on a shit show, and an elaborate bassackwards plan for 'just in case.' And once there, he can play on the innocent, the wrongfully incarcerated, the misunderstood...like him...and build a new following. Surely they'll protect him from the rapists.
Good fantasy.
It's steak for fish. The way wrong nutrients, maybe even toxic and deadly. Let them find meditation, OR whatever works for them, on their own...it's not a big secret, they know it's an option, and they probably know that they can do it without a teacher. Many lonely hours, with nothing else to do...they're probably 'meditating' in one form or other already. What they need is medicine, proper education, viable anger management and social help, and job skills. The self respect those things beget, will lead them to their own path of inner peace and loving others...not the guru. His he fucking stupid? I hate him. Prisoners have it hard enough...whether they deserve it or not. In survival mode constantly, will they have the left over mental capacity to see thru his bullshit? Or maybe, their natural predisposition to non conformity will will help them not take it too far...idk. I hope the damage he does in this is minimal....I hope I hope I hope. I fear for the abundant souls with suicidal ideation in prisons, and what he will do to them.
|
|
|
|
The first Rawatian outreach into prisons began in the '70s as spearheaded by Gary Ockenden, who at the time was a Community Coordinator in Vancouver. This initiative landed him at Canada's DLM as either President or Vice-President under Willie Svob (what ever happened to Willie?) and eventually on DLM International's radar and presumably GMJ who promoted him to Initiator. I still remember Gary and Bill Patterson (RIP) holding a long, rambling, live telephone conference to premie communities across Canada pontificating vociferously and in Bill's case, ecumenically persuasively, regarding GMJ's mission of spreading K throughout the world and our great good fortune of being given the opportunity to contribute (financially) and participate in this great international reveal...
|
|
|
