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I wasn't a premie when Pat Halley pied Rawat in Detroit. For more information about the incident, please read here:
http://www.ex-premie.org/best/pathalley3.htm
I included Jagdeo in the my topic header because he raped and sexually abused the children of premies:
http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/jagdeo.htm
Two of Jagdeo's victims posted on the forum, "A" and Susan. As a result, there was tremendous backlash, from the cult against them and ex-premies posting about this horrific issue of Prem Rawat harboring that disgusting pedophile.
So many premies who came to the forum to declare that it made no difference to them that Jagdeo hurt innocent children.
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 09:02:50
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Human beings are still rather stupid and unevolved. We filter out whatever does not match our current world perceptions and beliefs in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. Just look at all the Catholics and Muslims who still follow their corrupt and immoral churches/mosques/priests/imams (to point out just two of many). The premies are just a small drop in the bucket of deluded individuals, of which we were all unfortunately part of.
You know the old saying: "when one person suffers from a delusion we call it schizophrenia, when tens of thousands suffer from a delusion we call it religion".
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Agenbite of inwit means "remorse of conscience."
I learned something today from Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan (Ronald Reagon's speech writer), who described Hillary Clinton as having a "remorse of conscience," a phrase that's derived from agenbit of inwit. (Google it if you want to read the articles.) I agree with Peggy.
I use the phrase to discuss Prem Rawat and his cohorts.
I only posted the links to EPO so that folks in the thread below could read up, if they wish, on the letters and posts and the real-life backlash during which premies made it their mission to silence us.
"when one person suffers from a delusion we call it schizophrenia, when tens of thousands suffer from a delusion we call it religion".
I never heard that, but it's ignorant, inaccurate and incorrect. People who suffer from schizophremia have a physical brain disorder. It has nothing the fuck to do with religion.
Sheesh!
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 16:36:14
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Thanks for posting those links Cynthia. It's a good idea to read as much as possible about the former guru. The surprises keep on coming.Before I read thoroughly the well put together pieces on prem rawat bio site I imagined there must be a moment in prem rawats existence where he would reach this 'remorse of conscience' that is an indication of a fully flowering human being, able to see oneself objectively and admit self defeating behaviours have got one into a mess -and come up with a better strategy that embraces the wholeness of being human.
So far I have had to concede that he doesn't operate as other people do and I cannot expect that he does or will in the future. His mental health is defined by a type of predator personality that is a manipulator par excellence. There is nothing about him that sees any real value in admitting he is wrong, unless it is part of a longer game strategy that is a manipulation on a larger scale. Remorse is not something he has found any value in. He sees no room for regret. Lasting regret, I understand, of course move away from the hard to face times with the lesson in your hand and leave the regret; but he steers away from any self examination that might reveal that he is wrong on any level. He is surrounded by sycophants. By choice. He doesn't have any friends. Anyone who was a friend who could have said anything to point to how he may possibly have it wrong on any level is now either dead or otherwise gone from the fold. I have discovered from reading here he booted anyone who questioned his authority, or even his ideas or supposed insight, if a person couldn't see it or feel it, they would suddenly find them selves on the 'outer' permanently. no time for 2nd chances. No conversation even. He must live in permanent mistrust of his minions. As in Hilary's case the remorse of conscience doesn't really hit until the facts start turning up and they are irrefutable and one has to stand on a podium and say that could have been handled better and also may I just say a little white lie here and suggest I didn't know any better at the time. He's never going to do that. He just morphs into the next incarnation, media focus now, radio and television promotion, no guru schtick, and at the same time NO ADMISSION that it ever was so...... and as Cynthia has pointed out above, real live backlashes have and do happen. As far as he's concerned survival is a matter of having that giant ego survive, at all costs... I only partially understand how he operates because it is outside the realm of my inner experience, i don't think anyone here can say they really get it. All we know is how he comes across in his projected illusion and how he is in real life and what the vast chasm of difference there is between those 2 places. Happiness exists. It exists within me. However it has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with him or his fake knowledge. It was there before, during and after this scam, this illusion this dream, and now that the fog is lifted my happiness is in much clearer focus than it ever was when the prescription was dose myself daily on his poisonous self serving agenda
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" I only partially understand how he operates because it is outside the realm of my inner experience, i don't think anyone here can say they really get it. All we know is how he comes across in his projected illusion and how he is in real life and what the vast chasm of difference there is between those 2 places. " for me what you said above is the whole crux of what got to me question - excellent wording of post - make so much sense
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Hi Suzy,
I only partially understand how he operates because it is outside the realm of my inner experience, i don't think anyone here can say they really get it.
I understand Rawat quite well. He's a malignant narcissist and a psychopath -- most cult leaders are without empathy and conscience. My father was the same -- a tyrant and abuser on all levels. It's impossible for us to empathize with psychopaths because we don't know what it feels like to lack a conscience, to lack empathy, and to be a tyrant.
Understanding and dealing with people like Rawat is difficult because they are so good at manipulating people in order to gain what they want only, disregarding everyone else. They are great actors. Psychopaths cry crocodile tears that invoke sympathy from the people who love them the most, tricking them into assuming the blame for their own bad actions. It was during my own deconstruction of cult involvement that it dawned on me that my father had the exact same personality and character deficiencies. It was as if a dark veil that had been covering me for decades -- my whole life -- finally was removed. I'm grateful for that, as painful as it has been. It's over for me now, and I'm grateful for that, too.
So, I'm lucky in a kind of perverted way. I do get it. It caused me to have to spend many years of my life healing but it has been worth it.
All the best,
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 09:46:34
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Thanks Cynthia, You ARE lucky to have seen yourself through all of it. And you are right about all that he is. For quite a long time i kept being surprised by the extent of his malignant narcissist and psychopathic traits. It took quite a bit for my brain to hold onto the idea that this was not something he periodically showed up as but who he is through and through all the time, smiles or dagger eyes, either way he is using everyone in his vicinity for his own ends. It is a painful realisation.... also that he's not the only one. There are arseholes extraordinaire out there in the world and may they all steer double clear of me before one of them cops the wrath intended for this particular brand of loser. We are all very lucky to be free of him now, it IS over. at least for us and we have a whole lot to be thankful for moving forward. It's impossible to have empathy for him, as you say, a trap or default tendency I went to often before I got enough facts together to understand that he doesn't care AT ALL and has zero capacity to care. It's laugh or cry territory, some days it goes either way. Lately the absurdity of it all does tend to make me laugh. Sure it's black humour but it also diminishes him in my mind, which i enjoy. The fact that the most self serving person i can think of had somehow persuaded me and countless other premies that serving him was equivalent to serving a higher power. Thats absurd and ironic and funny from this distance, although not in the beginning of course. The years spent healing are worth it, there is a part of me that he never could reach, I guess she just exited stage left until I was ready to understand. Now that he is in his rightful place the part of me that really does know, my inner knowing I had before I got caught in his web is back and enjoying the process of balance that comes from starting to make sense of all that took place. grateful to you and all who post here
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Hey Suzy,
It is a painful realisation.... also that he's not the only one. There are arseholes extraordinaire out there in the world and may they all steer double clear of me before one of them cops the wrath intended for this particular brand of loser.
I like your writing. Well done. Have you read any websites by some cult experts? I can post multiple links if you haven't and are interested. I think it's important to cut short one's learning curve, on the road to recovery, by reading some books and articles about cults and leaders, that have been written by professionals, who make it their life's work to investigate and publish their findings about cults, as well as offer counseling, etc.
Lemme know.
"...also that he's not the only one"
It's spiritual abuse. I loved Maharaji more than I loved myself and family. I spent time with him at DECA, at first on the phone, then later when he came to the small warehouse. He caused us to believe in his diety without remorse or conscience.
I had no children because that choice, decision, was ripped away from me by the cult and other forces of power.
But, I'm a survivor as you are. Mostly now, I thrive. I make my own happiness. I think it would be a better world if more folks learned that we must make our own happiness. Who else is gonna do it? Certainly not Prem Rawat or anyone else, except loved ones.
Be well and keep writing. One small request...would you please put a page space between your posts' paragraphs? My eyes ain't what they used to be. I'm almost old and I need blank space to keep 'em focused.  Thx
Best wishes and be well,
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 15:46:34
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Thank you Cynthia for your offer of links and yes I would enjoy to read more on that subject at this pointI have looked at some before now and strangely, not long after exing i met a couple on holiday who's job was cult deprogramming. We had a bit to talk about that's for sure.
I'm glad you are thriving and making your own happiness, because as you say, who else is gonna do it? Loved ones are a total blessing in whatever form they arrive. And anyone who empowers us to make our own happiness or remind us that it is in our hands.
The liar maintained that we were doing just that. It took years for me to understand that the happiness I got from the cult was not a happiness that lasted or that i could build upon. It was so fleeting and often a rollercoaster.
It was always being eroded and needed continual topping up from the S, S and M
It's quite different now. The happiness seems to stick. It builds on itself. Of course there are sad days and bad days but I am more secure internally than I have ever been and it is not due to circumstances that's for sure
meanwhile I am trying felting for fun. It's quite therapeutic. Lots of stabbing action
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cynthia: your continued clarity and "telling like it is" is the stuff that makes this forum work for me. its people like you that can communicate the real truth.
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Thank you for your kind words. I don't post much anymore. I've been posting on the forum for 18 years, so I generally prefer to let others write without my 2 cents.
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Cynthia Thank you for the last 18 years of support, service and wisdom that you have committed to this forum. Has it really been that long?
You played a big part helping me through my exiting process class of 01 along with many others. And you have stayed and consistently contributed considerable time and energy to keep the doors here open wide for others to walk free.
I have not been as active here as I once was but as I popped in and out of here over the years I always look for your insightful and concise posts.
I love what you just said about making your own happiness, the state of mind you have in life is pretty much up to you is the best lesson anyone can take from this trip.
You have contributed so much to the forum and I want you to know I appreciate all the work you have done over the years to set cult members minds and souls free.
By sharing your story and your vision you helped me reclaim my independence and happiness. You have done good, you can take that with you always
Thank You
Brian S
Modified by Brian S at Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 19:51:45
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what a great phrase. I am glad I've done my best to avoid it. I spoke out here to avoid it because I know that the best thing to do with remorse of conscience, i.e. the thing that will stop it from biting, is to do something about it, even if it is only to learn not to do the same thing again. But as an ex premie, someone who had been a cultie and all that entailed, here was a direct way to make up for that by speaking out where it counts - within the arena of the same group.
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Hi Cynthia,
Thank you for posting this. Especially the attack on Pat Halley which I had gotten all wrong, due to mis-information, partial and twisted information, given to me when I joined, which was later that these events. I was told a pie was thrown at R in France. Is that true too?
Not that Jagdeo' s paedophilia is any less important to me, but I was already more informed on this.
This attack on Halley is so upsetting, and so so cowardly. Makes me sick.
I know first hand also, I mean from personal experience , that R and his wife have been harboring real sickos in key positions. And how it affected me, and how both of them totally sent me to hell after I complained.
But as you wrote, backlash is a possibility. So I do not feel comfortable to bring it up here. My life is tough enough as it is.
Even though I admit I would like very much to tell more. Makes me feel like crying. The perversion is pervasive and contaminate.
I wish I was stronger. Yet my experience of life in general led me to be cAutious And certainly my time in this cult and how it ended did not help build up a sense of trust!
Things are brewing for me. I did not sleep at all last night and feel like crying.
Violence is....hard to bear.
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Hi Inis. I wish you well with your processing. Try balancing this negativity with positivity; our brains Can do that. Tip the scale towards happiness. After all we are experts at brainwashing. It's just a numbers game. 😘
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Dear Inis,
Things are brewing for me. I did not sleep at all last night and feel like crying.
Let yourself cry if you can. Crying can help relieve and release feelings that come up. Take your time, too, because there's no rush to deconstruct everything all at once.
I was also given the line from premies that the Pat Halley attack was no big deal. Premies whitewashed the truth because they couldn't deal with the reality of it. That's no excuse for lying to new people, but that's what cults do: they lie and manipulate. The deception starts from the top down.
I spoke to Pat Halley once during the time he was corresponding here. He suffered from TBJ (traumatic brain injury), and he told me he was terrified of both premies and ex-premies. He had good reason for his fear. He told me that he still had books with his blood spatter on them. Pat took his own life in November, 2007.
Here's a website "Tribes of Cass Corridor," on which several of Pat's friends paid tribute to him after he died.
http://www.corridortribe.com/obits/pat_halley/pat_halley.htm
The last bit of writing (at the bottom of the page) describes how the pieing incident was planned and how that horrific murder attempt changed Pat forever. There's a link to his obituary in the Detroit Free Press.
How much you disclose about your time in is up to you. The whole point of writing here is to help yourself get over all of this shit.
Be kind to yourself. Pamper yourself. Thank yourself for having the courage to leave a cult. Ask for help here when you need it. It's a big thing.
All the best,
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 09:25:54
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Cynthia, your post of course is awesome!I oversimplify things. Maybe something I need to work on. I have always appreciated your helpfulness. 🦉
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Hi Cynthia,
Thank you for your post and link. I was not aware of what had happened to Pat Halley till few days ago. It is horrible.
Violent attacks are always horrible. This one being worse of worse. He was tricked in such a cowardly manner. It is beyond digusting.
So I guess most premies who had been around a while at that time knew about it. I am flabbergasted that the facts were hidden or distorted. My ex who had been a premie for a long time when we met, had mentioned the pie story, telling me it had happened in France!? Nothing about the subsequent attack. I came into the scene much later and nobody ever hinted.
Really if any argument was needed to show how insane and horrible this cult is, this attack would be it.
The people who are hiring the " inspirational talk giver " do they know?
Hopeless and disgusting. Because in the end, it seems that violence is a winner. Not a nice conclusion, but that is mine.
I grew up in a violent environment. Married into violence, was in a violent cult for a great part of my adult life.
Conclusion: none.
Life has been a lot picking whatever pieces are left. And keeping on going. Which honestly am getting tired of doing. You would not know if we met. As I look good hahaha Inside though I do not believe in anything neither in the good of being alive.
In the end I find it amazing to see most everyone doing the same. Ditching blows and keeping on till it is over.
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Hi Inis, yes it is and was disgusting. People that became best friends of mine in the cult when I joined also must have known of the pie and I assume also the attack, but nothing was ever spoken about it the entire time I was in there, I first learned of it from links posted here too.
When I first started to read new and shocking information here it was really startling at first. So many emotions and no sticking my head under a blanket or my tongue up my throat to suppress them.
As time went on I realised I hadn't dealt with stuff in the past very well, a lot of things were just left hanging, no resolve.
Prem's fake knowledge kept me kind of frozen in time, subjugated, in a learned helplessness. My default was to fall apart inside and reach for the crutch. Not unlike an addicts state of mind really.
The pie and subsequent attack was one thing to read of. The accidental death of a cyclist in India when prem was driving and a devout premie taking the rap for him was another. The fact that Marolyn has for years lived separately and that his mistress Monika is kept by his side in her role as personal photographer to his ego, presumably by donations, also hit me hard. The fact that she, Monika, had an abortion on his 'agia' These were a few of the things that riled me about him. the relationship stuff seemed to get under my skin more than I could even understand why....
Maybe because I saw why he had fed me with a 'failed relationship is the norm, in fact it's practically all you can expect' idea
There were a few times when I hit rock bottom while deconstructing the mental mess but I have a determined little terrier inside that refused to let him win!!!!
I saw that without my love and admiration he was minus something, minus some charisma, certainly minus some power over me.
My greatest revenge has been to rise above this force fed crap that I willingly ate at the time, and to enjoy my life more than before. That became my mission and once I decided that - everything became easier.
I saw that even the power to decide had been wrestled from me. There was no deciding while around him. There was this admiration of letting go and surrendering my will to him. No lasting joy came of anything that was decided that way. More often than not a mini crisis instead. Or a major one.
It's frustrating sometimes to witness friends get all busy and excited about the big giant head visiting nearby. Such a lot of repeated platitudes that make me want to howl to the moon. Occasionally words come out, I try to be understanding and not terse or harsh, but sometimes I think I still am.
I understand that you need to be aware of not putting your head on the block but for your own welfare keep writing it down, even if no one else ever reads it , because it does help.
Really just wanting to say to you that the desperate feelings do evaporate and your ability to recognise your true personal power, to take the reins of your own life will pretty soon replace those feelings. You will feel more confidence in yourself and more depth of true feeling than before.
It's actually wonderful, you'll get through the tough bits and appreciate more than you have ever appreciated as your senses awaken.
I had to remind myself to give up beating myself up and give in to the joyful fact that I am OUT!
Life has begun again with you as the central focus of your own life. With all the people and places and things that matter to you in focus too, without him stealing your power, your attention and your love.
It's exciting once you realise you have the tools in your hands again that he had you surrender to him so long ago. And now you have time to find out what you truly do like about yourself and about your life. Little by little that list grows in length and in value. I don't remember how long I've been out exactly I think it's about 3 years, I will have to check the forum to see my 1st post, I remember the date April 6, but not the year.
It struck me when you wrote Really if any argument was needed to show how insane and horrible this cult is, this attack would be it.
It's true! about a year ago I spoke with a new friend about having left a cult. Snort! as you do! While trying to establish the identity of the fraudster he suddenly said - "the ice cream guy" It took a little bit to figure it out but in the end we knew we were both talking about the fat indian kid guru who got cream pied.
He's older than me and not a premie, but he had heard of the incident, it had stuck in his mind as an indicator to steer clear of that fat little dork, as he put it
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Thank you Cynthia for your lovely caring responses.And congratulations on your getting out of the cult to Rawat! Ah! Fakirs gurus and masters... for sure this one really pulled wool over our eyes. But in my opinion they all do.
In a way, I think it is the times in our life when we feel lost or very sad that things can really tip off. Circumstances may differ for everyone, but there will always be difficult moments. And it seems that those are crucial. They can mean death...suicide. Giving up to drugs and alcohol. Or turning to someone for help. And then it is either empowerment or its opposite.
Disempowerment was indeed set up to an advanced degree in R cult. Instead of turning outside for help when needed I turned solely towards him. Or " inside" with the meditation techniques.
I have nothing against meditation per se. Yet it seems to be a big mistake to go in there to either calm down or get into some modified consciousness states, which I did a lot. And successfully. Probably not to my advantage!
It is a mistake because there are things to see in life and face, and things to say. We are not some turtles or snails that each time there is trouble out there we should just retreat into our shell. Yet I did that a lot.
I recall clearly that on the few occasions when I went to see a psychotherapist for help with domestic issues, my background thinking was one of incredulity in their capacity, lack of trust. In one only I trusted. And that was this stupid "lard" as some call him here. This started changing towards the end of my involvement. But not deep down. In fact, and this is a realization that downs on me now as I am writing to you, I did not believe in outside help at all. And unfortunately a few events happened that confirmed my lack of trust. So I ended up literally running away for lack of other solutions.
I have been out for many years. 1996/7 ...thats 20 years. So obviously a lot happens since, I did lots of other things and the whole R story and schmilblick feels really old sometimes and far away. Even at times when I read into the forum. Yet yet...not sure how to put this into words. To start with I still feel reluctance about giving details about very concrete bad stories. Yet I still have a very hard time to state my boundaries. Yet I do retreat a lot still. Not necessarily into deep states of trance like I did during those years. But just plain retreat and back out.
Everyone is different. But for me it is the fear I want to break down. My fear. It is about time. It is my next project. Tired of walking on eggshells.
So even though that story may feel "old" at times to me, there are in it major ingredients that make up for a recipe I just dont wanna eat anymore.
Again thank you for your expression on this forum Cynthia. I do appreciate your posts very much
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I have nothing against meditation per se. Yet it seems to be a big mistake to go in there to either calm down or get into some modified consciousness states, which I did a lot. And successfully. Probably not to my advantage!
I had a strong aversion to any type of meditation for many years. I wouldn't even attempt it. What I found was that I had to listen to myself about not meditating, because there was too close an association to Rawat himself, and his toxic belief systems. Altered states? Don't hyperventilate or too much navel gazing. Living is for being around people and enjoying planet Earth.
There are some ex-premies who don't have the same issues that I did. Others do. The walk to recovery from being in a destructive personality cult can slow to a limp sometimes. That's when it's time to rest. Although, I know it's hard not to read the forum and EPO.
Be well!
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Jun 09, 2017, 13:46:37
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" Living is for being around other people and enjoying planet Earth "
...um ...am not sure what living is for. And yes sometimes it is nice to be around other people and the planet is enjoyable. And sometimes not.
Reading your post I felt that I had managed to upset you, which certainly was not my intention. Maybe stating this old story felt old.
Shortly though after reading, something cleared up very clear about my long involvment in this cult. Cause sometimes yes I wonder how stupid I could have been. Yes something is very very clear.
I did it for those altered states, those times of respite in my terrible life, locked in a terrible marriage ( followed by likewise divorce ), with small children to take care of, and no support, no money, no family. I did it because it felt like saving me. Offering something which I did believe to be beautiful. Which gave me hope against my backdrop of personal suicidal desperation sadness utter demolition lack of support.
Life is for being around people...I grew up around people and by the age of 18,when self talking to myself, would often repeat that even if I was offered millions I would never accept to be born again. Thats is how nice it was to live around those people. Raped and mistreated. Threatened. Some have the chance to grow up to loving parents. Some circumstances are indeed very very grim.
Anyway yes sometimes too often even I have been limping rather than walking happily. And it is hard work.
I have been traveling for the past 10 years of my life. Am a nomad. Precisely to be around people and because I cant stand settling.
I do understand you had/have an aversion to meditation. Especially the type R spreaded. Those techniques are not developing awareness. They are more indeed prone to induce self hypnosis and inner trances. I am aware some premies did not like to meditate. I did. It is hard for me to know what would have happened if I did not have this whole deal to keep me sedated. Would have I become more intelligent and seek real help and read into subjects like abuse earlier and try getting out of it? Would have I killed myself? Taken to drugs or drinking?
Look am not making an apology here that this scam saved my life. It did not. Because my life did not get better. In fact the negative forces at play kept rolling. And did materialize. It was excruciatingly painful.
And the good and the beautiful my existence was given, I do not attribute to R! I loved my children. And still do. That was it.
None of the " friends " i had then remained friends. In fact there were never friends, but more like playmates in this crazy environment.
Yes I do enjoy reading in this forum. It is still feel amazing that playmates in this crazy play, even if I do not knew them personally, are out now and talking about it all.
I read again last night the whole thread which welcomed my arrival here and woah! I was stunned.
So thank you and my humble apology if I rubbed you the wrong way with my altered states
Modified by Inis at Fri, Jun 09, 2017, 21:42:41
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Hi Inis,
I am enjoying reading your posts, you write well and I couldn't agree more - people are often not enjoyable to be around. I still believe in true love tho! I am a romantic, not because I wear rose tinted glasses or because I think it guarantees success, well look what happened to Romeo and Juliet, but out of pragmatism - it's what makes me make sense to me. all else is confusion.
I had one of those marriages where people would say to me you have to stay together because you are the only happy couple I know but I know how miserable it was and how much it hurt to stick it out as long as I did.
I used to like meditating too.  I still like curling up and doing nothing. particularly on a cold rainy day like today - me and the cat have pretty much slept all day!
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Thank you Lesley
Yes indeed nice to rest relax and do nothing sometimes. Processing all this is tiring!
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Hi Inis,
I am also one who loved meditation. Not to say that I didn't confront resistance and obstacles along the way. You might recall how we all carried a bunch of his quotes around in our heads to use in conversation or satsang ? Well this is one that I attributed to him, but it might have just been typical eastern thought converted to usage by our whacky club.
Paraphrasing : "The act of meditation is not natural, but the experience of meditation is.. (natural)."
This in a way summed up my approach to the effort, perseverance and patience required in the face of our intensive routine of morning and evening meditation, month after month, year after year.
More often than not, I found my self going past resistance and lethargy and became entranced and absorbed by the beauty of the word, the breath. It became a peace-generating vibration of pure satisfaction. Many days I would get up from morning meditation and found that that state of contentment stayed with me all day long and into the next day and the next. Satsang would allow deeper contemplation and evening meditations were an exploration into new worlds of consciousness.
OF COURSE that state was a respite from the craziness we were surrounded by...it provided order and continuity to a questionable life-style that no one seemed to appreciate in those times.
This was one of the biggest reasons I had a hard time leaving Maharaji. I associated this bliss with him and his seemingly worthy figurehead. I am pleased to say that I disentangled myself completely from that illusory link and feel that I am now free to enjoy altered states as much as I wish ...without any speck of Rawatism or cult influence corrupting things.
Our life within the cult was not a sham in that regard. To this day I still consider my meditation experiences to have been real, true, intensely personal and sublime. I would not trade my independence now for ANY amount of promised salvation, but those years were incredible nonetheless and quite honorable, I believe.
Regards, Mark B
Modified by Manincar at Sun, Jun 11, 2017, 11:44:02
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Hi Mark,
nice post, and I agree, I don't feel that having joined a cult impugned my honour either, but I do regret it.
The ritualistic daily meditation was a real bust for a young thing - I'd rather have been out in my vegetable patch.
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Inis ~
I'll never forget one of the most profound teaching moments of my life...I was a young adult, figuring out how to cope with psychic symptoms and suicidal ideation, some that was and some that wasn't mine...grappling with forgiveness...all the things...anyway, I met a woman at a friend's baby shower, the only time I ever saw this woman from the very small town I lived in...looking back I've wondered if she was 'real'...she was so beautiful and I remember her lovely tribal jewelry.
She was Native American, the town we lived in is right in the middle of Navajo Nation sacred lands, and actually many different tribes had come and gone in the area. It was one of my bad days...I woke up crying and just couldn't shake it. I couldn't miss the shower, she was a very close friend and it was more like a big party for everyone...all the men and kids were there too, I'd know everyone, except for this woman.
I did my best to put on a happy face and pretty clothes and went to the shower, where she approached me. I guess I wasn't hiding my tears very well, she saw them clear as day. I couldn't explain myself to her, I still couldn't explain myself to me...the tears of an empath. Not only was I upset for 'no reason', but I was also upset that I couldn't stop the flow of emotion...'what's wrong with me? This is a lovely day, beautiful gathering in celebration of new life...I just can't stop...what's wrong with me?'
She held my hand and said, "Let it flow dear. There's nothing wrong with you, you cry for the world. Your tears are nothing to be ashamed of, they're beautiful. Messengers of overflowing emotional authenticity. There's a Tribe way up North, my Tribe, and we have only one word for laughter and tears, because they're the Same Medicine."
I wish I knew the word, but the idea has helped me cope for sure. Cry Inis. Feel your sorrow, and clear the way for the other side...the smiles. Let your tears mirror our Sky Tears...the cleansing, nourishing rains...no storm is so grey that it can hide the rainbows just waiting to shine.
I didn't know about Mr. Halley's suicide until I read Cynthia's post this morning. I'm crying today too. Depression is rage turned inward, we have to get it out and this is one of the best places to do that...and shereelove is so smart...focus your lens...don't let the rage seep into your other areas like I did. For years, I let my rage (depression) touch everything I am, simply because I didn't know I had it...and I didn't have EPO either. Every time I learn of yet another guru related suicide...it kills me a little bit. And it makes me that much more grateful that you all are HERE! It's amazing, what you've all been through...
So cry, cry, baby...just laugh a little too as you let EPO support the journey. And maybe get some ice cream .
Be well, Genny
Ps. I personally see your courage and I think you should stop beating yourself up for being cautious. As Cynthia said, there's no rush, and no pressure...share what you want when you can, and see the strength in that...your strength.
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Thank you for your beautiful post!
I know exactly what you are saying about crying so much for no clear apparent reason. Used to happen to me quite a lot. In the past.
Intense sadness is hard to bear sometimes. You are right though. It does clear up.
Thank you for being here and writing!
Modified by Inis at Fri, Jun 09, 2017, 01:47:56
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I'm sorry you find yourself in tears Inis.It is how it goes in the beginning though- and as wise Genny said, it is healing and not something to judge ourselves for. Piece by piece it will all fall into place and all the accompanying emotions will be there to guide you through and we will all be here, holding your hand if you want us to. Memories will surface and some of them you will be moved to share. You will probably feel like devouring as much info as possible about him at certain times, at other times you will want to forget for a while and just live your life. It does help others as you post though, including everyone here, because we know what you mean!!! and it resonates and heals us too. For myself writing it down moves me forward a step at a time. It simplifies things and engages that critical thinking about him which he practically forbade. That you even made a complaint! heaven forbid, haha I noticed while 'doing service' that it was impossible to question the way things were done or the unwieldy systems. It was strangely impractical and although there came to be a lot of corporate speak around stuff as if we were professionals no one seemed to understand how it helped, we still went round and round in circles a lot of the time. Plus my brain was in dumbed down mode.
Looking back I can see how much I was trying to give to myself, how I was trying to be open and humble and sincere. I congratulate myself now when I notice how i wanted to show up in my best place. It's not my fault he is a manipulator who wants to use people like me. It doesn't make me wrong. Life is good, love is wonderful.we are luckier than we even know. Prem's luck will run out in due course, some days I'm impatient for that to happen. Other days I have the patience of a dragon. Either way I have half a smile on my face just knowing that he cant run from his own demise
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KARMA HAS NO EXPIRATION DATE
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Yes thank you...and also for not pushing the issue.
Cults, clans, naturally are very defensive. One thing I learned being that this particular cult and those benefiting were not about our well being. Being in it or out does not change that factor. So speaking out is a matter of timing.
I do appreciate you not pushing the issue. It shows sincere care/concern rather that would be if there was a definite agenda to bring oil on the fire at all costs.
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