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I've been looking on for a year, so here's my first post. Received "knowledge" in 72, and lived in an ashram, then a couple of premie centres etc throughout the 70s. Since then, till a year or two ago, I would be either "practising" or not, but the Guru remained the central figure in my universe.
But things started to subtly shift. The first shift was when a lady I know well spoke to me of Guru's "well known shenanigans in Malibu". The second shift was when a fully committed premie told me about rumours of insane amounts of money being transported from poor communities in India to the Guru's organisation in the west. And of course the third and final nail was stumbling upon this fine site - expremie - thank you all so much. As a young man just entering adult life in the early 70s I cannot possibly express in words how much I feel I lost by getting hooked into DLM. In my first few years of involvement I lost or gave - all my money/wages, extra clothes, all my time, my home. It's a long story, but by the early 80s I was homeless, broke, confused, alcoholic, and wasted on drugs. But still in love with the Guru. I understand that all we do in life is by our own choice, but still - the anger I sometimes feel....... I think I've read on here from a couple of folk that the whole Guru cult experience has contaminated their romantic/relationship life. That is certainly my experience - we were encouraged to be celibate etc at a time in our life when its normal to be experimenting sexually and finding a good relationship. I have a history of broken down relationships and being confused about love itself. These days I am in therapy, I live alone, sometimes happy, and have passionate interests, i still like to meditate and feel joy, experience the universe and attempt to be mindful in my dealings with those around me. I hear the Guru, or Rawat, is doing a tour of the UK very soon. This makes me very upset and angry. I really wish this tour could be stopped (in my dreams), or others could be made aware of the Huge amount of damage this man and his sidekicks have done. Of course I have friends who are going to the events who seem to think I have gone a bit "funny!" I am glad you are all here and I may post again, in fact I think I will. Good wishes to all of you
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Hi Danny, please feel free to post anytime.
I think you will see that we are ALL, de-constructing our cult lives and re-building our real ones as best as possible here.
I can relate to your history. I have spent much time in therapy and also many years drinking my past away. I would say since joining Ex Premie .org, I have confronted my cult involvement head on, and it's making more sense every day, painful as it was to awaken from that dream.
Recently stated by one regular here (paraphrasing) "you have to get back to zero, before you can really see where you've been" (within this cult). Often reading other's testimonies, I am both angry and in disbelief. But never sad...that would be admitting defeat. He does not deserve any further gratification from exploiting us, in my opinion.
And actually I have no idea what he thinks, he obviously doesn't miss any of us. We are the matches that didn't light...after all. Fuck him. He's an enigma wrapped inside bad joke of a guru. Sigh...
That last thread stirred me, about slave labor around the Rez. I was just thinking to post again that what I observed over the years...as I got closer to his "off stage" life. Was that the closer you got to him, the more whacked the environment became around him.
And premies compromised themselves wholesale: their natural sensibilities, their common sense, their health and safety, their futures, their aspirations and interests, their basic intelligence and much more.
Thank you for posting, and to Inis and Rawatcher. Sorry for the incomplete sentences, I'm just firing off.
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Welcome Danny and thank you for posting.
I am new here also. Though I quit the whole thing in 1996 You wrote..." what we do in life is by our own choice" Um...am not so sure about that. In fact I think not. But thats another story.
Definitively we' ve been taken for a ride. Exploited too. Geez it makes my blood boil to read money is transferred from the communities in India to Rawat in the west. F...bastard. Looks like he will never stop unless he is stopped!
On a personal level, I was brainwashed enough to give him my time, even though I was dirt poor struggling to raise my children, and completely on my own doing it at some point. On top, I would still send him 10% whenever I got my hands on some money!
Yes we have been brainwashed into a major scam. Spiritual scam, but also quite material. And no, it did not leave us in a good shape.
The story is a different one for each. I was already a survivor before joining this big dysfunctional Rawat family. So yes it does look indeed like I went for more! And like it was a very poor choice. But no it was not a choice. It just happened. For a bunch of reasons I do understand, and maybe more which I don't.
Rawat is a narcissist crook. The years I spent around him, believing in him, were many. 15 altogether. It does feel sad when I look back at it. I am getting older. And its a bit like a movie...bit of a sad movie really. Tear jerker style. Am crying and laughing at the same time now as am writing this....but mostly crying.
But hey Danny, life is the teacher. And I know I got to find in me the juice to keep going.
Honestly it is a bit hard to join this here. It stirs lots of stuff. Just did few days back, and am going thru it  )))
Welcome hahaha!
Modified by Inis at Sun, May 21, 2017, 21:27:41
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Welcome to the forum to all the Newbies! This is the place to let out that anger or express those break through moments of understanding. It was a 4 year process for me to get to a point where I just did't have anything else to say. During those 4 years I posted feverishly then stopped for a while, and now I'm at a place where I feel like joining in again.
It has been quite a wild ride. I had so much pent up emotion and just plain confusion about who I was or where to put my attention. At 55 years old, I did not know how to even exist on my own. There was a huge void inside of me after years of complete abandon and dedication to Rawat and the cult. Now with the recognition that I had been duped, the healing has begun.
Its safe here. Some of us have chosen to remain anonymous for various personal reasons, and that's fine. Others have let their identity be known. Either way, thanks for joining in. Everyone here really understands and can provide unwavering support. It has helped me a lot to post openly about my thoughts and feelings. It will probably help you too.
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it takes bravery to finally say something out-loud that's not towing the line - ah the freedom of speech and freedom of feelings.
its so nice to have a place where you can "air" out your thoughts and feelings without the fear
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It's funny reading the bit where you say you wish Rawat could be stopped from doing a tour because I remember, I could easily have written the same thing when I first exited but now I don't feel the same any more - I don't care, I don't feel angry, if it wasn't him doing a tour it would be someone else, people like Rawat are thick on the ground and I couldn't care less what Rawat is doing. It's us, the exed and exiting that are interesting to me.
Yes there are many gurus but Rawat was the particular one that did us over and we are the ones that can say that, and it is healing to do so.
I guess it's like any relationship where the facts don't match to appearance - yes it was your choice to enter it, but it was a fake choice, you got taken advantage of - you don't understand but eventually you get angry and that cleanses your heart and gives you the impetus to get away from the relationship, then you can assess the damage, set yourself to heal as best you can, and you have to talk about it a lot for a while and eventually you calm down.
I was 18 when I joined the cult and in my 40's when I left. I was 19 when I met my ex and nearly 60 by the time I left. So I have had two bouts of feeling like a teenager in an unaccountably aged body. It's tough, there's no denying it, but look around. See the people still stuck to their fake choices, that's really tough. There's a lot to be grateful for.
And that's the good thing that came out of joining a cult - leaving it. Leaving it is good. You learn a lot. And it's cleansing. that nice sleepy clean feel of so much better out than in.
thank you for your good wishes and interesting post.
all the best, Lesley
Modified by lesley at Mon, May 22, 2017, 15:56:32
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Danny:
the thing is - that here - everybody is at different percentages of leaving/left
So there are people on this site that have 100% left and they have no qualms telling it like it is for them
There are people here that are 80% and enjoy what others say - it sort of validates what i experienced - doesnt chime in much/enjoying the freedom.
There are people here that are 60% to 70% - that are pretty convinced there is something thats not right - but are still conflicted - they still need to hear a lot more.
Then there are the people that are 55% or lower - they troll this sight in a good way - read and re-read as much as they can - they are curious - they may still need to be around premies - but they may be ready to jump ship - if warranted - by other people and their own experiences
They have been with m forever - the core group - they are the most unpredictable in terms of going or staying. Usually there is a inner-circle benefit.
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Welcome Danny, so good to have newbies arrive and take part in the conversation.When I first started to write here I found things came out in no particular order. I would suddenly react to one memory or another, suddenly the veil would be lifted on a scene i had forgotten about. It takes a while to deconstruct everything in the clear light of day and even longer to see just where and how the lazy attitudes of brainwash cult speak have got inside ones head. Weirdly it's the most enlightening process! And empowering. Now that's something that I might have thought about having K a while back. But more than 30 years of practice has not yielded any self knowledge or empowerment. I have been hiding from myself the whole time i meditated his techniques, and lying to myself, justifying my massive investment of heart and soul and dosh and yes at the expense of my relationships far and wide and very close to home. Bastard doesn't give a shit, not even on a gold plated loo. His home life ain't perfect and he'll be darned if anyone close to him is going to show him up by having a happy marriage. That trickled down all the way to most of us. Priorities! he would screech in that dreadful high pitch and that meaningful glare. What fear I lived in, in retrospect, all smoke and mirrors, he is the wizard of oz , behind the curtain. He plays us with as few words as possible, just lets the tone deliver what we think we know in our hearts (fear) Very strategic PR, however you can only fool us for so long. New life, new possibilities that never existed under his yoke, new horizons and new heart opening experiences that are grounded in TRUTH await you, welcome to your real life. It doesn't get much better than discovering you can be authentically you, with your own feelings and thoughts and observations, not curtailed and circumnavigated back to a resource pool for a pathological ego maniac. I'm looking forward to hear your memories and stories and all the gory details. We all are nourished by one another's insights as much as our own. No wonder he still implies that the internet is a mere distraction from reality (ahem)
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Welcome dannyxg
I remember being so shocked and pissed that he was still doing this thing when I first started posting too...couple years ago. I hadn't thought about him in a long time, cause every time I did I'd get pulled into a black hole of obsession and lose days reading shit about him, and then of other cults and all the things we get stuck on from that world. I was researching my past trying to put together a book and took a small break to look for a specific book by an author from the astrology world...nothing cult related whatsoever...I typed in the name 'Brezsny', and my screen filled up with books by and about the guru. I couldn't believe it...knew life was wanting me to look deeper at him.
The good news, I also found Mike Finch's "Without The Guru" and AJW's "The Nazis, The Hippies, The Guru, and Bonzo The Lost Dog"...and then ultimately EPO again. Thank god cause it's the people here on this fine site that saved me as I fell down the rabbit hole of obsession again, and found the well of rage for him that I didn't know I had. I couldn't believe he was still touring n stuff...wanted to take it all down. Same thing when I discovered "Chris and Daya" and the bullshit praise their 'music' was getting from premies...I was hellbent on finding a way to offer up a "real review" and rip them to shreds. I never did. Instead, I came here. I'm so glad you did too.
EPO is the only place that really gets it...all the stages as philareflection mentioned...and the branches like me, too. I'm not ex ing, but I do hate that fucker more than anyone besides EPO could possibly understand. And coming here has helped me cope with it better than I ever thought I could.
I'm delighted that 'new' people keep coming, it's evidence of how necessary this site is, and how healing...and I'm forever grateful that people will still come here years after their own ordeal because we need them .
I thought I'd look back at my first posts...see if I feel the same way...not completely. I think I'm a bit of a drama queen...embarrassing...but my rage was so raw and everyone here really understood that...forever grateful as I said.
My letter to him still stands though, it will definitely make the book with some kind of addendum probably...I thought I'd re post it here for newcomers to get why I hate him so, why my situation is a little different, and why I so admire ALL of you for being here and moving away from your trappings. If you're not comfortable with your anger towards him, let me carry it for you. Keep sharing your stories! It's so great to learn how other people heal, and I love to hear about how awful he really is. Fuck him. Cheers to you!
Genny
*** The Soul Sucking Black Hole that is The Guru
Dear...um...?...?...I don't know...whateverthefuckyoucallyourselfthesedays,
You have so many names that I can barely keep them straight and I'm not at all sure what I should call you. "Sir" sounds ridiculous. Does one have to be a Premie to call you "Master"? That's ok, I would never call you that anyway. Considering the fact that you're a kind of a big player in my life, I should probably just call you Prem. Doesn't feel right...we're not that close, and Prem also means Love...nope, can't do it. Mr. Rawat...maybe...also doesn't feel right...it would be proper, your sur name with a formal header...feels too respectful, Mr. Rawat...but it does feel better than Perfect Master or Lord Of The Universe. Your critics called you out on those incarnations long ago, and you no longer answer to them. Publicly that is. Many people around the world still think of you that way, just look at any recent book review (yep, I said recent, you're still putting out old speeches as new insight?). Your devotees are an amazing bunch, with a secret service or hive mentality that altruistically swarms around you...unbelievably effective still. They don't seem to mind sounding like idiots on your behalf or in your defense. Every five star book review you've ever received is in the voice of worship and devotion, not intellectual literary praise...those go in the one star category as you know. Your hive has no idea anymore, how to use their own voices, or even where to find them, and they somehow still believe your proclamation that "Not even a leaf moves a millimeter without Maharaji's wish" and everything you touch turns to love. Well...not everything.
And that's who you were when I first met you. Guru Maharaj Ji...Lord of the Universe and Perfect Master...or was it just Satguru then?...I'll have to check, I can't keep it all straight...ok, yes, according to "Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?", title of Lord of the Universe was already in play. (Yes, I still have a copy, you didn't manage to burn all of them!). You were 14 or 15 years old, I was about 3. My parents were in their early twenties and helped you establish your Divine Light Mission Headquarters at 1560 Race St. here in Denver, Colorado. (Which is now falling apart and dark and ugly...it will cost the new owners millions to restore it). I can still taste the Indian treats that your servants threw off the rose covered chariot as they carried you right by me at one of the Festivals. I was up on my dad's shoulders in the middle of all the excitement...we were supposed to try and kiss your feet...I just wanted the candy and roses...'kiss his feet?...EW!' My parents loved you. I assume I did too just because they did...I don't remember ever loving you. But it would make sense that I did...I did everything my mom did...including leaving you. My dad stayed. You managed to convince him that you needed his love more than I did. What kind of spiritual master tries to cut the divine chord between father and daughter, I wonder. Greedy soul. But really, that's between you and your Maker. I think you should be prepared to hear (actual) divine laughter when you get there, and to be sent back in soul school a few levels...and, well, you're familiar with Karma, right?
But I digress...as you often make me do...where was I? Oh yes...what to call you. You abandoned the name and incarnation of God as fast as you abandoned your mission and your people when you were called out as a cult leader. What the hell were they supposed to do? How could they possibly find God without Guru? We all know that's not possible, right? How could you? Don't answer that...I don't care...I just need to know what to call you...so many names to choose from. I looked for you occasionally throughout the years. Any time I found myself in a metaphysical bookstore or spiritual fair..."Anyone ever heard of Guru Maharaji or the Divine Light Mission"? No one ever had. One time, in my favorite little bookstore in Durango, Aquarius Adventure, the "man to ask" never heard of you either. Only he, so typically of people with self perceived power, decided to make me feel like the stupid one, when he's the one who didn't know what the fuck I was talking about..."That's not even a real name...it's a title in Hindu culture, and you're not saying it right". He tried to school me on his vast knowledge of Hinduism...thanks, but no thanks, I'm good. (As you know, he was referring to the title "Maharaja", for Hindu Prince, or Indian royalty line from a King...anyway, that's not you, and not what I said...I said it the same way I've been saying it since I was three...looking for information on Eastern born cults, not Indian Culture. Without even being there you caused bad feelings...so powerful you are). And then...aaaaahhhhhh...the Internet Happened! You were and are all over it with all your names attached...what to call you, what to call you...so many to choose from.
Prem Pal Singh Rawat Boy God Balyogeshwar Satguru } Divine Light Mission.......Mahatmas.....Devotees Guru Maharaji Ji Guru Maharaji M Greater than God, it's common sense Perfect Master Lord Of The Universe
~ This was all by age 8, even I can see that it wasn't all your fault, the adults in your life failed you miserably.
*** Maharaji Prem Rawat } still divine, Elav Vital.........Initiators.......initiates /followers /aspirants M *** No longer Divine...how did it feel when God left your body?
Pedophile harboring...swept under Divine rug, as if they have the power to hide anything from the real God...for spiritual masters, they're pretty fucking stupid if you ask me...same goes for the hit and run murder that was covered up for you...yeah, even I can hear the divine laughter now...can't you? Is that why you're always smiling? You do know the difference between being laughed with and laughed at, don't you?
Prem Rawat...lowly human...publicly anyway Motivational Speaker } TPWF......WOPG..........instructors.....students Ambassador of Peace Gifted poet, musician, artist, and pilot too In very private, very expensive, and very still ridiculous ceremonies, however, some...if they have enough money to gift you with, may still "receive darshan". Unfuckingbelievable. That you would do it still, and that they would want you to...in private you're still god?...divine, raucous laughter!!...you should be prepared.
The Prem Rawat Foundation Words Of Peace Global Peace Is Possible NC } Tip of the Iceberg...all leading to "The Keys", the new mahatma One Reality dot net (the keys that are free, free for $15.00) ~ interesting use of the word 'reality' ~ Rawat Creations ~ this is one of my favorites...for $1000.000 one can buy a photograph of smoke or a water drop with your signature and official seal...wow!
*** Thank God I found the Ex~Premie website before I found any of yours. I really needed a heavy dose of the truth before I could stomach any of the bullshit your hive has put out for you. I really wonder if you've actually seen and approved any of it...if so, god, I'm really left to question your IQ, it's that bad and you should be on that shit if you want to look smarter or "gifted" in the eyes of the general public...defective as we are. They're not doing a very good job of controlling the internet for you either, though they try. One server will say that the ex~premie site is forbidden, while another will list your approved sites with the most vulgar and explicit porn ads running right next to them...come on premies, get it together!
Despite you, My life has been one amazing and beautiful spiritual journey after another. My relationship with the Divine is far more profound and true than anything you ever gave me...and I found it all by myself...including an awesome capacity for forgiveness. Except when it comes to you. This has really bothered me over the years...why can't I just forget about you? I have first hand "Knowledge" of the Damage you've caused on a personal level, but I honestly believe Abrahamic Religions have done more damage on the Whole than you ever did. You're fairly insignificant to the world on the whole anymore (sorry that your rap songs didn't draw more troops)...why would I still care about you? You're not in my daily life. I've managed to tuck you away for the most part...but you have proven your power time and again...you make yourself important, showing up when I least expect it...looking at old family photograph albums and you're in the background...looking on amazon for an astrology book and nothing but books by or about you come up...just when I think I'm over you, there you are asking "are you sure"? I shouldn't give a shit, right?
But we have special circumstance, you and I. You've served me well over the years as a partial source of blame. I've hated you since I was 12. Not actively...I never contacted you, I never involved myself in the multiple internet arguments about you...it's just a deep feeling that gets stirred up whenever I am reminded of your existence. Deep. I just can't seem to forgive your existence. Terrible for such a compassionate soul. Bad human...bad girl...can't lose the hate...not when it comes to the guru. That's what I've settled on as for as what to call you...just (the soul sucking black hole that is) the guru. I don't care what you want to be called, that's what you are in my head, from childhood...the guru...I see no reason to make any effort in my life to change that just cause you did...many times. I rarely capitalize it...I most definitely do not believe you are a true Guru, teacher of Truth. As you're well aware, we had framed pictures of you all over the house to pray and prostrate to, as "The Lord", and for years after we left the cult your face entered my mind anytime anyone mentioned "God" or "Lord". I did finally manage to remove you from any association with God, which didn't take too much effort, thankfully. You've never been anything more than a man to me, a man called guru. But the hold you have on me is real and I have no idea how to break free, not sure it's even possible, I just have to minimize it wherever I can. I'm afraid you'll always be a part of me, you are eternally linked to my beautiful father's death...your ugly face is the last thing he saw right before he blew his brains out with a .38. He was looking at a picture of you and had a rose to offer you, his Guru and Perfect Master...his Lord...still...and he left me for you, again. And now I hate you...and guns...and roses. It's so weird for me to admit that...the hate...it's so not like me and I can't think of one other thing that I'd be comfortable saying that about...hatred is a weird thing to carry...so irrational...so real...you, guns, roses...I fucking hate all three of you.
Too bad, cause you know, what's not to love about a red rose? I cringe every time I see the glorious thing. Same is true for guns and you. One one level, it really is guttural. Lesser even...Pavlovian...cellular...a sickening knee jerk response that the rational mind should be able to recognize and adjust for real quick. And sometimes, it can. I can admire a lovely, simple bouquet of white or yellow roses in the right setting. A gun on a cop's hip doesn't always make me want to throw up. And you, well, I want you to know that the hate I own for you is not so one dimensional. It does exist in that Pavlovian realm. It also exists in higher realms, it's well thought out and much heavier than anything you might dismiss as reactionary or elementary. Mine comes with higher awareness, lowly jealousy, critical analysis, warrant, consideration of other approaches. Too. This is the one thing you are one hundred percent powerless to turn away from or change...my irrational, well considered, multi leveled and multilayered oh so rational hate for you, the guru, the MAN who took my dad away twice.
A beautiful person asked me once, if I had any compassion for you. "NO" blurted out before I could even process the question...it surprised me. But then I realized, I didn't need time to process, I'd already deeply considered that for myself...question already asked and answered. The short version was "absolutely not simply because he is still AT IT". That guy, that fat, sick, ugly, greedy, abusive, lying, uninteresting, uncharismatic, chauvinistic little Indian man, is still taking money for himself...massive amounts of money that could change the world...and still letting brain dead people kiss his fucking feet...and still making many false claims...and still neglecting to acknowledge his past, or "The 14 Objections", which are very serious and still require answers. I have tons of compassion for people who have done terrible things...when they've humbled themselves to be truly sorry, truly pennant, and truly corrective. A heartfelt and sincere apology does have power. Accepting a difficult apology is not at all required, and is therefore amazing grace in action. And earned and righteously used second chances are nothing short of mini miracles. Too bad we just don't know how you could change the world with a second chance...if only we could get you to let go of the first one...and apologize. I could possibly be open to finding compassion for you and your fucked up ways, if you were looking for forgiveness and a (real) second chance...but we both know that will never happen.
The longer version of the "NO" answer to my beautiful friend was this, "I rather like the disgust...I actively remove my wiser higher self when I think of him, the hate feels much better and much more authentic than any building block forgiveness for the sake of being the better person or releasing the past. You know me, of course by now I've used my bigger eyes".
In my natural state, the compassion that dwells within led me to see how easily you could be viewed as a victim. Of course I let my mind go there, I just didn't let my heart follow! It was the Perfect Storm: a crazy, delusional family; the clash of religions, East meets West; the clash of ages, Pisces and Aquarius; the aftermath of the clash of Nations that took War to a whole new level; and ultimately the clash of the stars, that created the astrological chart that you embody so well in a twisted sort of way...you were given many gifts that you abused. Trust me, I've taken the subject of how not to hate you to the highest levels of awareness with profound knowledge of Universal Ways. I SEE how it all happened, and I also see the countless opportunities you had to fix it. The bottom line remains the same...you were the last thing my Dad saw and thought of here on Earth and my cells hurt every time I see a picture of you, and the hate remains, and it's fine by me.
Wow, that's a lot of words to essentially just say 'dear guru, I hate you'. But that really is all I wanted to say. There's nothing I require of you, nothing more to confess...I only wanted to express...and ended up rambling. Have I somehow become you? I hope I at least make sense better than you ever did.
Sincerely, A Premie Daughter...who loves her hate for you
...did I mention that I hate you? We're clear on that, right?
...did I mention, that even though I happen to know that you are the one thing, at one point in my dad's life, that made him glow...the only thing that made him 'happy'...that I don't care...I get no comfort from knowing that...you manipulated it out of him and I fucking hate you.
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Danny, It's been a long, weird trip for you. I want to encourage you to embrace your anger, and to commend you for loving god (who the lard obviously is not) for so long. I am not usually outspoken with my opinions, probably because I am so confused now that I don't have the illusion of knowledge. But in desperation you held on so long - hope gives us strength to the finish line. I was searching and found the lard when I was 16. As the cognitive dissonance increased over the 30+ years and I looked into other sources of truth, and eventually EPO - I was able to see that the focus of my faith was wrong. And yes, I was very angry, less so now. Venting and validation here helped process the anger, as did owning my heart, forgiving myself. I cried and cry for that innocent who was, only to find she is still here. But in the beginning, like overcoming addiction, anything that I associated with that lifestyle - Indians, new age music, Indian food... was repulsive and to be avoided. Wow, I remember throwing out a whole dresser drawer full of videos (while saving some classics for future reference, those beloved ones I haven't watched as of yet), and running over some cassettes with my car. The dreadful discussion with that close premie friend in which I surely felt I have just discovered America - and they would too. Another delusion. The first time I went to Amaroo I was so free, roaming around the woods hoping I would run into the lard on one of his nature walks (not); could have been bitten by a poisonous snake! A premie and I got wind of the bus that was going to Daya's restaurant and we thought, well, we'll just go to the bar, we don't have to pay for the restaurant (so naive), so we hid in the bus by bending over in our seats and the driver somehow called us out and one of the musicians said, we don't know who they are (what do you mean?...aren't we all one?), but then there was a driver switch and off we went (the power of positive intention we used to give away under the name of grace). Well, it was still fun then, and I was naive and I didn't suffer so much the fact that the people with money were getting the darshan. Yet, drip drip drip, I started to hear that there was a mistress and drinking. And more premies were smoking cigarettes and drinking at the programs and more often than not, the premies were not very nice. It was becoming apparent that the ji didn't want to spend any time with us, at quickie events as well as at Amaroo, and we were leaving our jobs to attend spur of the moment programs, and yes, there was an elite section and then the peasants. I didn't really know the world was like that then; I didn't focus on that. I'm in the US, and when I see the attitude of the current prez, and incidentally most of the government, it reminds me of the narcissistic, entitlement behavior of the lard, which we were not to judge, just a lila! But if all the trappings of the 70's were taboo, then he was no longer able to claim them as deductibles.
I hope you stay true to your heart and we are glad you are here too.
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Hey, thank you so much for your response - moving, colourful, thoughtful, honest. Yeah it's been a long weird trip for me, but fortunately I'm aware life IS a long weird trip. In the few days on this forum I swear I feel positive shifts. One thing I get now is the guru's amazing entitlement and absolute dismissal of minions outside his closed circle. And the sacrifice so many made (much more than me) just to get close to him. In the old days I had at least 2 premie friends who were always mentally ill anyway, and weren't treated right, they got confused and bang smash suicide both of them. I find some of the memories hard to bear. Right now I have a few old friends going to upcoming events on his tour of the UK, and I've already startled an old premie lady friend of mine with some new insights, I went over the top and got a bit foul mouthed and shocked her, then was ashamed of myself - she has to realise in her own time, you know, so I told myself off for trying to control her thoughts - so I'm chilling out again. Reading the last parts of your post, I started thinking this is maybe more than just awakening to the guru brainwashing, but part of a loosely collective reaction to the general political/religious narcissistic control of our thoughts and spirit (I've always been a kind of idealist). We refuse to be turned ugly by ugly leaders.
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I know what you mean about the general 'waking up' theme. I felt similar things when I first left and still do to an extent. The whole world run by narcs? It's easy to see it that way sometimes. And here we were trying to be better people. He once said 'will knowledge make you a better person? No.' In retrospect why did i hang on so long after that and other uncomfortable truths that he sneered in my face?I get the wanting to say all the really uncomfortable truths to those who are stuck too. It's hard to just sit back and watch. Luckily for me a friend who had seen through the facade fed me small tit bits of awareness little by little. It was also shocking to an extent and at times I felt bereft. As I realised I had invested so much in a scam. I too said too much too soon to others that don't contact me now. I like to think it got in somehow and will continue to gnaw away until the damn breaks. Maybe they will visit here? maybe they will put their heads in the sand a bit longer? Whatever happens I can genuinely come from that place in myself now that always tried to reach for the highest and not be regurgitating some waffle from an idiot psychopath who's narc tendencies have run away with him. You'll see as you read more on this forum that those minions in his inner circle suffered hugely from his very personal dismissal of them and the terrible mind control techniques he used, the gas-lighting, the lies and subterfuge, it has honestly astounded me what a terribly hard time some of those people have had. Looking in on the 'elite', those in his so called favour, it never seemed that way. Yet often enough I was looking very closely at them all trying to detect his holy influence. Really almost every time I searched their faces for that spark of divine life being lived I couldn't see it, something was missing. The cognitive dissonance was always so present that I didn't take on board all these realisations as they were happening. I was just trying to concentrate on the whirlpool of my own life and trying hard not to fall apart. Now that the distance from DLM and all it's many faces as he tried to change like a chameleon with the times, and the true understanding of what was happening dawns on me bit by bit, I reprocess those memories with the facts in the equation and I am nurtured and supported by the truth, as unpleasant as it can be sometimes to admit that I have been a fool. But of the two of us, him and I, I see that he is the most foolish of all and as smart as he thinks he is, he will live to see his relevance and stature dwindle to it's right proportion. He'd better start budgeting for that.
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We are lucky to have made it out.Eventually this going in there, and out also, is it seems or can be a good eye opener. Just some 3 nights ago I was having dinner and a conversation with this guy. I mentioned I was in a cult some years ago. Cult he said? Which? Who? It turned out his first step into " sprirituality" had been with rawat. He was startled: that' s a cult? Said he had been a premie hanging out with premies dope smokers for a couple of years. When young. Still thought it was far out.
One thing I notice is that those present here were long timers, quite involved. At least for what I can perceive. We engaged a lot of ourselves in this. Maybe to those who did not go so far, surely even, it did not turn out to be such an issue...
I mentioned " personality cult " and he said most spiritual teachers take people into that.
It is often true. But disgusting also. At least thats what I think. And it does not help people grow. Yes there is lots of commonalities in many " spiritual " appeoaches.
The one we were in seem to me now particularly clownish. Since this photo of Rawat was thrown at me on my FB wall and I joined here as a consequence, I went ahead and did something I had not even thought of doing all these years. Look at recent photos. Dear oh dear ! Rawat is now soo freaking UGLY! It is beyond aging, which we all do of course. Looking rotten decayed. And the poses, the expressions! How can people go for this!? Are they on some dope also all of them or what?
SuzyQ I think you are right ....rawat like Hitler or Napoleon will most likely suffer integral downfall.
Modified by Inis at Sun, May 28, 2017, 07:16:33
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His degeneration is probably caused by alcohol poisoning.
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Great Post. Yes, exactly as you says, the rich paid for the darshan, like those staying six blocks from the White House at the Trump Int'l Hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. He might stop in for a burnt steak and ketchup. He's eaten nowhere else. I helped build and open that restaurant. Am proud of it. I went to Amaroo five times. I am not wealthy and nearly froze to death. I hate the whole fucking thing. Thanks for your perfect recollection. Note to Dannyxg, would you please remove the photo of that ugly guy with the bad hair you posted recently, as I believe it is against this forum's guidelines, which you can click on above. Thanks (if not, I've asked the Administrator to remove it.)
Modified by OTS at Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 06:57:44
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Hi, greetings, I have no idea what photo you are talking about. In the few times I've posted I've never posted any photos, ugly or otherwise. I thought I may have posted my photo by mistake, but of course I'm not ugly nor do I have bad hair. Maybe you got me mixed up with someone else. Best wishes, Danny
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It's the porn mustache that I find so offensive.
Modified by OTS at Sun, Jun 04, 2017, 15:29:13
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Hi Danny. Since you're not ugly and you don't have bad hair I'm sure there's a lot of us would like to see your photo. Especially if you have any hair. Only kidding, how are you doing?
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Ha! You're funny, but no way I'm posting my almost hairless face/head on here.Thanks for asking, I'm doing my best to be ok in this mad process. Though I hadn't been a regular "premie" for years, for 40 odd years I have continually held the belief somewhere in my mind that "guru is greater than god", and would attend the occasional event, do a little meditation etc. So I'm only a year out of that mindset. Everything feels a little upside down or back to front at times, I have a feeling of relief at not surrendering to that bullshit, and also lots of anger surfaces. Rawat is coming to a town near me very soon so I have to contend with awkward chats with folk who are going, and am trying not to freak at anyone, or talk too bluntly - am thinking their time will come to exit the cult. Too many good folk are peeling off from the guru worship these last few years and this makes others ask questions, I hope. There's a feeling of,spiritually, starting again, maybe looking for a meditation group, I do like meditation. I could go on for ages on how I am doing, its a huge question - I hope you're ok. Best wishes
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Well good Danny! If you need any help with your balancing act you know this is the place you can go on and on for ages and ages. Helps all of us. stay brave.
Even after I knew there was nothing there I can't believe I spent 3K to go to Amaroo; I was selling real estate during the boom of the time so it didn't seem like that much money but I think it was the final closure for me - I wanted to make sure I hadn't left any stone unturned. Just in case. I guess I knew that was the only place where I would be able to go right before him, look him right in the eye, and not at his feet, and that's what I did.
Then after I returned I was ready to read everything on EPO and I mean everything. A mournful process to be sure. But we come out resilient.
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Hey I read lots on here also, I started a year or so ago, before I posted. Wasn't sure at first then I found writings by someone who became the first English "Mahatma" I think, I'm sure you will know who I mean, I hugely respected him way back, then I was out fast. Have read lots of great stuff from others also. Thanks for writing so thoughtfully. Amaroo, the holy grail - you went there to reclaim your own self I think. good wishes to you
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Thanks for posting on here and joining the ongoing conversation DannyIt's always interesting for me to hear how the drips get through and the waking up begins. I had stopped meditating for a while and also found it impossible to sit through a dvd, yet my belief wasn't challenged until someone suggested that the money currently being fundraised for his latest jet, hundreds of millions, would be better spent at food for the people. I burst into tears. I didn't accept the facts right away. I thought I was crying for those who "needed' to see him. However it didn't take too long for those words to haunt me a bit longer and then from there for me to start to be able to hear other pieces of info that I would have outright dismissed before hand. Self serving behaviour still looks like self serving behaviour even when you're meant to be the living master of the time. Good luck with putting up with the 'coming soon to a town near you' stuff. Two of my closest friends in the cult know I'm out but a lot of them don't. The 2 dont communicate any more. The communications I get from those who don't know I'm out is increasingly challenging. I find it hard not to make a comment on some facebook posts. I met a premie I didn't know last year, just randomly, who started waxing lyrical about m bringing world peace. I had said that I used to follow him and left it at that. I was with a good friend of mine who has never been a cult member. The premie decided this was a good moment to get into a satsang groove on behalf of this one who didn't know about the lard, thus the world peace stuff. I was uncomfortably reminded of how I had often enough done a similar thing. I couldn't shut up anymore and basically said I don't believe anything he's doing is going to bring world peace i'm sorry. I guess she could tell from that sentence that I did not hold him in the same regard as her. Oh well at least he's trying , she said ...yeah, sure.
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woah I can imagine how uncomfortable it would be to be around active premies now!
May I ask how long you have been out Suzy?
For me the fact alone this guy I knew is on my FB now landed me into this forum. It was so weird. He posted a pic of R, aged and so repulsive ugly, for maybe an hour. Then it was gone...it freaked me out bad. I had not seen a pic of R n years! And was doing well without!!
Modified by Inis at Fri, Jun 09, 2017, 12:57:06
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Those pics are just going to get uglier and uglier as the years go by ... lol
I am not absolutely sure but I think it's been about 3 years that I've been out. My relationship to Time has always been a bit skewed. PTSD may have a part to play in that, but I think it's also to do with just what I'm like. I'm around no premies as a rule, not in my day to day anyway. One lives about 40 minutes from me. She would come to visit occasionally. When we first met I was still under the illusion, the spell. When I started to divulge what I'd read here I haven't seen or heard from her since. Really i don't care. The fact that i randomly ran into a premie I'd never met before in my remote situation was really a big coincidence. I'm glad I'm not around a lot of premies because as you say it would be challenging. I am not amazingly good at holding my tongue for long periods of time, in spite of the cult practice, haha
A couple of nights ago I read this excerpt from the Soul Rush book, on the PR bio site. It is significant to me because if I had known THIS fact , just this one, I would have left years ago. You see I thought of Maharaji as the ultimate premie. He had his master and he as a devotee was an example to me of the way to be a devotee of the master. As evidenced by this small paragraph from the book, this is not what he wanted me to think!
My personal question was, does Maharaj Ji actually think he's a divine figure? This seemed like the crux of the whole matter. Back in November I had written a little blurb for a brochure advertising the festival commemorating Hans' birthday. I had said, "This is a special occasion because it gives us a chance to see that Maharaj Ji is not only a Guru but also a premie, a person just like us." Somehow this slipped by Sharon and got printed in the Divine Times. Once it had been run off ten thousand copies' worth, Jeff came into my office and said, shaking his head, "You really blew it this time. You really did." "Why, what's the trouble?" "Maharaj Ji's no premie, stupid. When Bob saw the newspaper, he called the Boss. There's no way he's going to release that issue of the paper saying he's a premie. We have to reprint and recollate." Shaking his head, Jeff walked out. On one hand I felt sorry I'd insulted Maharaj Ji, but, wow, did that sound like ego. Thinking about it now, toward the end of January, it seemed to be rather indicative. If Maharaj Ji wouldn't step off the stage for a minute, then maybe he was afraid - if the premies got one close look, it might ruin the magic. p228-9 (The humble servant of God won't allow himself to be portrayed as just a normal person. Sophia gets a reality check but it's still not enough to enlighten her … yet.)
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