|
|
|
“Is Rawat the
Perfect Master or not?” That's a daft question, like “Is Santa's beard white or grey?”
Sorry if this is going to spoil your Christmas, but someone has to tell you,
there's no such person as Santa Claus, and there's no Santa's beard.
There's no such thing as a “Perfect Master” either. Like Santa
and his beard, it's made up.
It's very convenient for Captain Rawat and the premies to have “Perfect Masters” leaving a trail
through history, hopping from Jesus to Buddha to the Prophet and
calling in on Guru Nanak and any other saints you can dig up along
the way, culminating in the sensational, present perfect master,
living Lord of the Universe, Prempal Rawat- ta dar.
Unfortunately it's all bullshit. You can try and force the pieces together as hard
as you can, but like Santa's beard, there's no such thing. All you'll
end up with is a box of mismatched, broken jigsaw pieces. Along with
“The Grace of Guru Maharaji”, “The Divine Nectar”, “Divine
Light”, “Krishna's blue skin”, (except when he's freezing to
death, or has stopped breathing), “The Virgin Birth”, “The
Knowledge of God”, “The Rainbow Bridge that leads to Valhalla
(Say “Hello” to Thor when you get there), and countless other
myths and fairy stories, it's not real.
We get force fed this crap incessantly, from the day we're born.
It's not surprising we end up a bit confused when we start to realise what a world of
nonsense we've been inhabiting.
So, young foot-kisser. You've taken the first steps out of the mad, mad world of Maharaji, and well
done for that. Hang on in there and all will be revealed.
And all you looney ex-premies, go easy on him, or her, and remember the
forest of confusion you had to stumble through on the way out of
cultworld. It's not easy when you stick your head above the
parapet.
Be nice.
Anth the pinkbeard.
Modified by ajw at Mon, May 08, 2017, 13:20:41
|
|
|
|
|
I have met the Easter Bunny, and am in fact the tooth fairy. It cost me $50 just the other day to practice my trade.
|
|
|
|
Swimming free. You have obviously suffered some kind of breakdown. Send me $120 in cash and I'll cure you.
Dr Anth.
|
|
|
|
Not to speak for him but, from other sources, I have come to believe the fellow is years and far distant from the cult, maybe quite likely now little interested in further posting having been chased away by all those misunderstanding him for whatever reason.
I might expect him just not so interested in the venue enough to explain and reply to all those commenting and/or pretty much misunderstanding or disliking what he's written. ...just my guess, I might be as far off knowing his meaning as others obviously have been.
Modified by tarvuist at Mon, May 08, 2017, 15:37:49
|
|
|
|
Hi Tarvurist,
It takes a long time to escape. I "quit" getting on for 20 years ago and am still going. The fact that your pal is talking about the perfect master makes me wonder how far away he really is. I hope he comes back so we can have a chat.
Anyway, we all have our own packed lunch to carry up the mountain.
All the best.
anth the pickled egg.
|
|
|
|
Well I agree, Anth. Except you assume he's my pal. I liked what he wrote and his response in coming himself to post. I hardly ever knew him but by sight and slight association early on, maybe never have spoken with him.
He writes in a way that has been misunderstood along with the thoughts he was hoping to share, as you say of his "talking about the perfect master".
There may be potential to raise the level of interaction if he cares to return to say more.
- Tarvuist -- no longer climbing the mountain, just floating away over the horizon
Modified by tarvuist at Mon, May 08, 2017, 15:59:47
|
|
|
|
I hope so Tarvuist. I was a bit surprised by the extent to which not addressing someone personally but talking about his post as if he is not here and not reading here unraveled the chances of a polite, respectful, honest exchange.One criticism of this site, which i have defended so far, has been saying that we are a bitter and twisted lot. Unfortunately I feel in this instance there has been a lack of respect, patience and understanding of Roark's friend , which is annoying.... I was looking forward to some new old stories and some unique perspective from another soul on this journey. I'm not sure what pushed the buttons but it might be worth investigating. My observation is Foot kisser has left here feeling unheard and on the back foot, feeling he has to defend his point of view. Not ideal, no?
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure what pushed the buttons but it might be worth investigating.
I can see various things in his writing and by their responses that too-easily pushed some folks' sensitive buttons, perhaps not the least is, I think, his taking for his posting-name the unfortunate one of "FootKisser", immediately giving some folks direct or unconscious snap-assessment identifying that he's on board with this act we used to do and is what he currently still does and invests himself in fully even now -- rather than thinking perhaps he uses the name in looking back at it with a complex but clear remembrance of what it was all about without guilt or an angle of satire even. ...or something like that. (See how I assume even there that I might understand what I don't actually know. ...one of the points he was trying to make.
It may be I'm entirely imagining his attitude in naming himself in this way only because that's my own current attitude to that past that I reflect onto him. Like maybe pertinent: I've taken the name Tarvuist, not because I believe and have deep faith in the Great Tarvu, blessed be his very spittle, but as it's an amusing and instructive thing Tarvuism from a site someone's created to illustrate a way of group soft-headedness making hopefully informative satire it, at least for anyone clever enough to see the obvious and not imagine it's a real religious movement...like the Spaghetti Monster religion is.
Now I've spent so much time on my so-called pal FootKisser that I must go quickly now and re-read some of the passages in the Tarvunty scriptures to keep my perspective straight....
- Tarvuist -- now totally drifting on over the horizon, but not so far away yet
Modified by tarvuist at Mon, May 08, 2017, 18:47:40
|
|
|
|
Thank you
Tarvuist and SuzyQ, I share your
sentiments exactly (and always enjoy your perspectives), and feel it was a
missed opportunity, both for him and for us.
I felt saddened by most of the exchange (excluding my hero TED’s, of
course, hillbilly bastion of uncommonly common sense and hilarity he is). I do have the unfair advantage of knowing Foot Kisser quite well and over a period of decades (most of those after he left GMJ), have seen the pretty amazing humanitarian work he has been involved with and know his admirable ethos. I also know he tends to get a little shitty when guarding me on the court, and has engaged in pretty dubious techniques to keep me from scoring. But after following the Lord down the garden path, it stands to reason one’s guard is up. But when one stops living in reaction, stands
on one’s own feet and knows oneself more succinctly, I think it becomes easier to
be kind, and patient if we choose to be. (Patience might
also include reading more of what someone writes here towards gaining fuller context.) I’ve always hoped my own journey (in which
premiedom played a big part) is a continual movement towards love, and all of
its side effects (compassion, harmlessness, empathy and the like). I’ve said
some pretty unkind things on this site, particularly about practicing premies,
which I regret. For me this exchange reflected
some of this in me, and was a bit of a wake-up call for me, at least I hope so. Of course we
need to evaluate constantly and make judgments….. particularly to set our boundaries,
listen to our Darwinian imperatives and guide our own steps, but I feel this becomes slippery when looking at others, and can quickly slide into condescension
(which I doubt anyone here finds particularly virtuous (or nice if you're a
Tarvuist, or sattvic for us Hindus)). M
Modified by roark at Mon, May 08, 2017, 19:24:15
|
|
|
|
Hi Mike,
Maybe I have become a calloused jerk, but I don't think we were rude to Foot Kisser. People asked direct questions and challenged ideas, but I don't see that as rude or unkind.
KK
|
|
|
|
Hi Kareni,
If you are asking for my honest opinion, here it is: It is difficult for me to see how you could not see many of the comments directed to him as being unkind. I didn't use the word 'rude' but actually yes, rude as well in my opinion, definitely rude. Context is key in looking at every situation, and the context is that someone is obviously coming to the Forum for the very first time, doesn't know the rules of the road, hasn't taken the time to learn, said some off-putting and possibly ill-considered things, and then had his head handed to him (even for interesting and arguably good talking points that were obviously misconstrued out of hand) and then ran for the hills. And now you state flatly you don't think we not rude or unkind. Maybe carefully read all of the responses, and then say that again. Callous is probably another good word, maybe a better one. He threw up his hands, but do you think he would have had done this had responses been otherwise (than rude, unkind and callous)?
Your standards for rudeness or unkindness may not match up with mine, and that's fine, but I am really curious about what yours are in this case, on the Forum??
I am also curious to know if anyone stopped for a moment to read carefully what I wrote in preface to his posts, and stop to consider that I had stuck my own neck out in asking my dear friend of over 40 years to engage in the Forum, that I thought it could be interesting for us (because of how far he goes back and his proximity, etc) but mostly how it could possibly be enriching for for him. I did not need to do this, but obviously I felt there is something of real value here. I am not suggesting that many were not aware of this dynamic BTW, but I wonder on how many this was lost.
I have a question for you? What do you (or anyone else that cares to answer) feel is the core purpose(s) of this website? Why do we spend time here??
Maybe its time for me to retool my own opinion (not being sarcastic nor judgmental here, just quite honest).
I'd really appreciate the input.
Mike
|
|
|
|
well I have lived in Australia for over 40 years now and so I guess it's probably rubbed off on me and we do have a reputation for calling a spade a bloody shovel so I guess it's possible for me to tread on American toes without being aware of it.
I think intent counts for a lot Roark.
There were no comments intending hurt that I read, and several of us apologised for unwittingly causing offence - to me it is a bother that your friend couldn't acknowledge that - it means he is still taking offence and indeed he has. so be it as far as I'm concerned, I can forgive and forget on the instant should his upset stem from stirring up cult stuff and he wants to talk more about it all but if he just wants to castigate us for not being suitably impressed or listening attentively enough then I'm not anybody's scratching post.
and he should make room for the idea that maybe we did understand what he was saying. What misconstruing?
The idea that we can't know anything for sure is well it's a very disabling idea. and it's just untrue. I know lots of things for sure. And I don't think we need to argue that point, it's all very well to say technically speaking I can't be certain I know anything for sure but practically speaking? well for heaven's sake!
It does, I will admit this, it does make me wonder what the next thing is going to be, some mind bending truth I'm supposed to swallow hook line and sinker? .. see there I go talking like an Aussie again just when I promised myself I'd be polite.
Return or not, I wish your friend all the best either way.
|
|
|
|
I'm learning about this Forum and it started with a bang. Pimping for a 13 year old Perfect Master! Alcohol for a 13 year old Perfect Master! Wow! Controversy! Accusations! What's the truth? I thought I could get a handle on the situation by getting some more information about Roark who introduced Foot Kisser/A New Voice. I was surprised to find the search option is pretty good and went back to 2015 with Roark. Roark and FK/ANV have a lot in common but Roark thinks FK/ANV was treated unkindly by some and rudely by others and FK/ANV thinks he was treated venomously. Roark seems somewhat high falutin' but consistent and straightforward and FK/ANV was all over the place in just 3 posts. Threatening one paragraph and playing the saint who you can call the next. Saying sure he was brainwashed and then refuting it afterwards. I could go on. He comes on bi-polarish. Extrapolating on the basis of those posts and making a reasoned judgement (a crime against humanity says FK/ANV) and comparing him to a person with a similar outlook (Roark) I'd say prudence and reasoned judgement is what FK/ANV lacks.
|
|
|
|
Living where I do, in one of the remaining centres of hippiedom in the UK, I've learned not to delve into people's beliefs, and if they don't lay them onto me too hard, to usually duck from under such discussions. A neighbour who is becoming a good friend goes to India frequently and has a picture of his guru on his dashboard. He's an imaginative architect, and we've each been messing our houses around, and we've helped each other along quite a bit. I like him, he's good fun, and neither of us have ever mentioned a guru. That dog is fast asleep and it suits me fine.
Foot kisser came onto a public forum to air his views and experiences. He did so without familiarising himself about the posters and how the forum works. He said he pimped for the 13 year old guru (wrong word, I appreciate), and bought him booze and dope, acknowledged harm done to others but it didn't seem to bother him. When challenged over these things he threatened to 'stop' whoever offended him, equating his critics with ISIS, and suggesting he had the power necessary to do so.
It was the pimping that got to me, and the threats that followed. So yes, an unfortunate exchange, but it wasn't one-sided.
And it's hard to try to have a rational discussion with someone who insists that in the end, we can't know anything such as whether Mr Rawat is a 'Perfect Master'.
|
|
|
|
It was impossible for me to accept the reactions of the
posters when I first posted (and hitting that POST button for the first time IS
SCARY!!). I applaud Footie for
trying. I jumped back away, steaming
mad, too, for awhile too before trying again.
Again, my second post was also arrogant and I got called out and completely
pissed off at the posters' reactions here. Fuck them. It
took me a third try to just gave up and surrender somewhat and admitted stuff and came
out with it and then cleaned out my house and threw everything into the dumpster behind
my crappy neighborhood the Indian restaurant (that uses frozen corn in some of
the subjees to stretch it. Take that
shit back to Nepal!!). Anyway, Roarkie, first let me say that the reason you can’t score on FK is
not because of his defensive techniques, [and please stop your whining and read the life story of
Brandon Jennings in this week’s newspapers.
He tagged along with his cousins in Compton to the basketball courts AT
FOUR YEARS OLD and wanted to play and they told him the only way you could play is if you stop crying
and start getting tough. He got stomped
on and learned to stomp back at a very young age and now is close to the NBA
Finals – okay, the Eastern ones anyway.
He's listed generously at 6 foot 1, but is really about 5-9. All his cousins are laying on their couches in Compton laughing and reliving their
tales of their little cousin who is now badgering the Celtics to the point of frustration] The reasons you can't score on his are because (1) FK sweats like a fuckin
pig. Honestly. He wears no shirt in the post so his sweat is
right on you and so disgusting. He does
this on purpose. He’s always on the SKINS
team. He really should see somebody
about that faucet coming out of his sweat glands; and (2) you travel every
single time you touch the ball, shuffling those size 14 boats of yours and (3) you shoot like mother. I hope FK comes back in his own damn time when he feels like
it and when he’s ready to just say:
Okay, I get it, you guys are really a bunch of ex-losers but a beloved
group (the kind of premies, when I was a honcho, that I used to AVOID LIKE THE
PLAGUE) But, in a way, I like all
people, so that’s not really true. I’m a
people person, but I just wore a tailored suit and ate toe jam on toast all
day, got a bit of a paunch and got sucked in like everybody else. I thought I was on the outside looking in,
watching Huntley and Brinkley and Casey Stengel on my 10-inch bathroom TV while
leaning on my baragon in my fancy hotel beds, but now here I am on this site
and ready to barf a bit and maybe laugh a bit and like you,
trying to make out of what happened in my past. Some of the insights people have here are GREAT, FK. Mike, let me say, seriously, on other thing. Your post mentioned your beloved son, whom I
have known since you held him in your long scrawny arms (and it goes without
saying that sorry, kid, that you look like your father) (and by the way can’t you get to a gym and get in playing shape? As you know
those muscles are vanishing at an astonishing rate – might help that crappy
hook shot of yours – the jumper’s not too bad, but again, the constant
travelling. Why don’t they just get rid
of dribbling for gosh sakes in the NBA AND COLLEGE, where it's an art like dancing?). As far as moving into an ashram or residence and giving up
my entire twenties, unlike you, my friendly local householders, who I longed to be and so wished to be one) one thing I regret forever -- and that is not having
a child or family of my own. I gave away up some of my very
most creative and energetic years of my life to this guy go bring peace on
earth, I mean as it turned out prosperity to the Hans Family (houses around the world, a fine
dining restaurant and bar in the bush of Australia, the finest travel and accommodations
around the wrld that stuffed envelopes in a darshan line can buy). I along with your friends created a city in Florida twice where
20,000 people for two weeks came and one was born even.
I created a fine dining restaurant in the bush of Australia with my bare
hands and Australian friends, making sure everything was just so, and what a beautiful accomplishment
for of us who worked there in the beginning years in the last 90s. The dedicated chefs, line cooks, waitstaff, back of the house, etc. With worked with pride. It's something I took with me. But, Mike, I don’t have a family, really. I missed all those lessons. I’ll never get them. And now, I am having some family issues, like
I said way down below in a recent post (about Manchester by the Sea; I'm going through more Kleenex than a darshan recovery room). And
it's all connected to the fucked up-ness that occurred by moving into an ashram
and following FK’s directions at 21. That’s
right, FK’s – not GMJ’s, but FK’s. That’s
how it came down. From him. It had the SANT JI signature, but it was from FK. But, I don’t blame him, however, because, like me,
he was just going along with the program – really, hoping to bring real peace
to everyone. Like us all. Dedicated to peace. Again, I regret greatly not
having had a family. I did propagation
of another kind. Please work on your movements while pivoting on one foot,
around and around the stationery pivot foot.
It’s the key to success on the basketball court. It will also prevent you from starting your
dribble before lifting your pivot foot, which we all know is the definition of
travelling. Like getting a running start
before you start dribbling like every NBA and college guard. It’s horrible watching Issiah Thomas WALK
EVERY SINGLE TIME. Again, DEMAND that FK
wear a shirt when he plays you.
Gross Finally, Five Thirty-Eight has declared Lesley’s chances of
being misunderstood at nearly 57% -- the highest of any regular poster here. [Sorry, Les, we kid because we love -- I WISH I
lived in Australia so much, after my five visits and work all day long in the
hot sun, I just loved it. Though, they don't seem to get along with all races too well.] -- Love to you and your friend, and I hope he takes his time and visits us again. It is NOT easy. -- OTS
|
|
|
|
FK won't be back because he's used to preaching not listening, so at the point where he (probably) said 'Fuck them' he felt he had nothing to learn from us anyway. No reason for him to return.
|
|
|
|
Despite my inability to decide the sporting allusions.
|
|
|
|
I really enjoyed your post...creative, heartfelt, true
Q
|
|
|
|
Now I'm siding with FK. Extrapolation is a sin. Most of us don't give a FF (I'm sure you heard that at Amaroo) about what race anyone is. Sure there'll always be that 10% but their median age is increasing and although you're pretty well allowed to say anything about anybody (thank God for 18C) you're not allowed to do anything harmful to somebody because of their race.
|
|
|
|
A for effort tho? gold star award for most improved? or helplessly in the trenches.
oh well 43% is not bad. I remember at one point earlier on I simply decided I was only writing for the people that wanted to understand me anyway. I became more intelligible overnight.
Tho I haven't kept in touch with the people I did service with at Amaroo and not much clue who the friend you refer to is, I do remember being part of the crew at Fine Dining with pride.
It flew for a while, I enjoyed being in the area at the back of the kitchen, good company and nice food.
Yeah, the cult involvement had a similar impact on my life, affecting my whole family in an ongoing way and I remember filling a whole bag with kleenex tissues in less than an hour once.
Thank you for your post. I've read it twice now, it was rich and fun to read. xox
|
|
|
|
OTS Thanks, wonderful post, humorous and touching. Too funny, my scrawny-armed finesse Vs. his schvitzing
gorilla-warfare game. You saying I
didn’t score on him??, comeon. Also, I did not
drag my pivot foot, dude. You know, after I grew into my body (about 75 new pounds later), I was playing the best ball of my life, until one day I came down with
a rebound on someone’s foot, ended up sitting on the floor with my left knee
locked at a crazy angle. One player
threw up on the court and another headed for the bathroom at the sight. After pounding the knee back into its
original shape, pushing myself with my palms, I slid backwards and leaned
against the wall behind the basket and had the surprising thought “maybe I
should choose a safer sport" (so I took up surfing and climbing). Sorry for what is happening there on your side…. There was some deep stuff borne of FK's indelible experiences, I thought the Forum might be good. Maybe he'll come back. What part of the world you in these days?
M
Modified by roark at Wed, May 10, 2017, 11:04:14
|
|
|
|
Hi Suzy,
I'm not so sure as you that a polite respectful honest exchange was ever going to be a real possibility.
I would of course be happy to be proved wrong.
|
|
|
|
This is Foot kisser's response to the first thread that Roark posted:
I must admit that I was stunned by the venomous words I have seen, especially from people who literally have no
idea of what they are talking about. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and it doesn’t surprise me that so much about GMJ deserves condemnation. But truthfully, while you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to disrespect people whose experience you don’t know anything about or to try to cause hurt through your words. I’m talking less about me, but about the many good people on this site who must put up with the words of hatred. You can share what you observed and how you reacted to that. But if you attempt to say what I experienced, said or did; if you insult me out of what I can only see as ignorance and ill will, I am going to stop you.
The way I look at this, Foot Kisser was the rude one, not me. I didn't address FK directly (but in the third person) because it was as if he was not in the room, given FK didn't post directly himself. I had no way of knowing if FK was reading here or not. He issued threats!
In the 2000's, Prem Rawat and premies created a cottage industry in order to call ex-premies a "hate group." They (premies) spent considerable time creating websites that libeled and defamed us using our real names. They contacted professional boards to get people in trouble for posting on the forum and being associated with ex-premie.org. They tried to destroy ex-premies livelihoods through those tactics.
Nobody here was hateful nor venomous towards FK. Confrontational, challenging, yes, but not those things.
Think about it this way: Say a person brings his friend to a pub for some socializing and conversation. The friend doesn't know anybody, so after an introduction and some conversation, the new person calls the group of folks "venomous and hateful." How would you respond? I would respond by ignoring the person or telling them off or by saying "fuck off." I didn't tell FKisser off. I tried to communicate with him and he wasn't willing to have a conversation.
That ex-premies are "hateful and venomous" has been a meme that premies have used about us for a decade, at least.
Nobody posted with the intention to hurt FK. I don't know what his problem is but it wasn't me or anyone else here. That's the way I see it.
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, May 09, 2017, 07:03:15
|
|
|
|
I see most of us folks here as ex-premies who know they fell for the great scam.
Most, who left the make believe land of Rawat, chose to not face their poor decision making and use such rationalizations as "I learned and moved on" or some such "the premies were so beautiful".
|
|
|
|
Okay, but not exactly sure of what distinction you make...
Mightn't there be something very rich behind someone saying that "I learned and moved on," and "the premies were so beautiful."? Can I realize I fell for a scam that injured many, one of the myriad sorts of scam pervading in human cultures, really face my awfully poor decisions, fully aware of what were then as my best good and enthusiastic intentions for myself and my world exactly in deciding and believing how I did, and go on with growing recognition and full acknowledgement of my past, actually learning from it, and move on to any degree - and maybe even now try in my own way to nudge along the quality of human life and thought -- and even with refusal to forget how the premies I lived with in the DC community were so beautiful...well, for sure really only some were beautiful, and all of us flawed in some way of course.
...So could I go on without reproach to go on saying in response to the question of the evils of the cult, casually, "well, I lived and learned, and the premies were beautiful." No. Someone will reproach me and think I'm still quite stuck in the mire of cultism.
It's a rhetorical question I suppose. Maybe I fall somewhere on the autism spectrum, but really I couldn't see clearly the distinction you make. ...that people ignore or hide their past? ...that people construct a rational understanding for themselves of their life story and say it to others. ...that some are soft-headed about things, and some hard-headed, and it's good to be alert to what's going on in others' heads along with the noting where in the infinite ranges of softness or hardness reside the heads of those with whom I interact.
Sorry I'm rattling on here...but I've been reading and posting on the site here for I forget how many years now, and it's of course engaging and informative, and often I'm teased out to respond wagging my own tongue...or wagging my keystrokes I mean.
|
|
|
|
As Footkisser has harped on you shouldn't extropolate from insufficient info but those 2 cliches can easily be used as shallow rationalisations and cheap excuses.
|
|
|
|
Yes yes, and usually there's much more going on beneath the rationalizations and cheap excuses, isn't there?
You can decry against the shallowness of a cliche as quickly as it's being said on the tongue, but why not press into a person's depths beyond the shallowness. Decrying to their face or announcing publicly the cheapness and shallowess you suspect or do see in a person you interacting with...won't that just surely create walls to the usefulness of the communication. Anyway it seems to me pretty obvious that without great cleverness, care and persistence any internet website, any posting, with barrages of quick reaction tossed out, easily will tend to produce much squabble and misunderstanding rather than rich communication of ideas. Not surprising to me when anyone selectively bows out of participation or just disappears.
-- Tarvuist getting my $50/month worth from that fees I pay my ISP -- by yakking away all day on here everywhere today.
Modified by tarvuist at Mon, May 08, 2017, 20:13:21
|
|
|
|
"It's not surprising we end up a bit confused when we start to realise what a world of nonsense we've been inhabiting.
So, young foot-kisser. You've taken the first steps out of the mad, mad world of Maharaji, and well done for that. Hang on in there and all will be revealed.
And all you looney ex-premies, go easy on him, or her, and remember the forest of confusion you had to stumble through on the way out of cultworld. It's not easy when you stick your head above the parapet."
I'm pretty convinced that we have all been affected to varying degrees by Rawat's Narcissism. (See link below) Posting on the forum has been the best therapy I think I could have found anywhere. There is a lot to come to terms with after leaving the cult.
I was spoon fed a set of values and required behaviors, backed up by threats and all kinds of guilt trips, for decades. And I ate every bite! It would be unrealistic to think that there was no deep psycho/mental/emotional impact from all of that brainwashing.
When I sent my first post, my finger hovered above the key pad for hours before I pushed "Post!" Then, I remember being physically rattled, terrified, shaken to my core, about having betrayed Rawat and his belief system. It felt like my entire physical, mental, and emotional being was exploding from the inside out. This is some serious stuff to deal with and we all process it in our own ways.
Related link: http://narcissisticbehavior.net/narcissistic-victim-syndrome-a-new-diagnosis/
Modified by jasper at Tue, May 09, 2017, 08:49:12
|
|
|
|
jasper:
I love your post - every word totally resonates with me
|
|
|
|
Thanks philareflection. Glad you liked my post and were kind enough to say so. You too Cynthia!
I don't like to play the victim card and never go around feeling sorry for myself. Like most of us, I am a good person; kind, thoughtful, considerate, empathetic, fair, honest, trusting, etc ....... Plus I've been a hard worker, a team player, very resourceful, and all about doing good things for others and the rest of the world.
(Wow jasper; that sure is grandiose and pretty self promoting! Not really. Please read on.)
I'm not saying any of that to gloat about myself. I'm saying it because that is exactly the kind of person that attracts Narcissists. They seek out people of good will and decent character. Why? Because a true narcissist/con artist knows how to penetrate our relatively weak defense mechanisms and lie about themselves while hiding their evil intentions. Good people make easier targets. Narcissists want to control us for their own purposes, whatever that may be. We are seen as nothing more than objects to be used and then cast aside when no longer of any benefit.
I say "we" because my guess is that most of us, including those still in the cult, probably display many of these same "good person" character traits. And we have all been victims of a Narcissist. The folks who I've met that post here have been some of the most caring and supportive people I've ever encountered. The couple of active premies I'm still in touch with are wonderful too, and incredibly kind and thoughtful.
I've thought a lot about this. Studied it. In hindsight, I've attracted several Narcissists through various other relationships in my life. It has really helped me to understand as much as I can about these types of people and then run like hell if I meet one. In fact, I noticed that as I've become more aware of the threat posed by a Narcissist, they seem to know I'm on to them and leave me alone.
Now, I'm suspicious of anyone who is too nice, too complimentary, promises too much, too anything. Its not normal and in many cases, its an artificial smokescreen intentionally manufactured to provide temporary cover for the Narcissist. And once we drop our guard, they are ready to pounce and set their hooks. From then on, good luck getting out of it in one piece! Does any of this make sense? Because for me once I understood it, a lot of seemingly disconnected experiences and pieces started to fall into place.
Modified by jasper at Tue, May 09, 2017, 15:00:48
|
|
|
|
PTNGSNVBPD-BTBTHBANG
Isn't it in the psychiatric manual of mental disorders
Post Traumatic Narcissist Guru Self-narcissitized Victim Bossy Pants Disorder -- But Trying to Be The Humble But Aging Nice Guys We've downright got it.
Whatdyathink Cynthia, Jasper, anyone? Is humor the only cure?
Can't figure how to paste an image here...link will have to do:
Don't I hear someone politely replying to me: "Wait a minute you g*d d*amn insensitive mutton-headed bonobo are you saying I'm a bossy-pants too! Go soak your skewed head in a barrel of toe water to actually make some progress out of your cult-enmeshed mind as you've obviously not processed anything toward recovery, like I have. -- Uh...that's like a joke, or like my attempt at satire, in case somene's wondering.
Modified by tarvuist at Tue, May 09, 2017, 16:47:20
|
|
|
|
Since my husband Tom died I look for every way I can find to make me laugh. Tom and I always had good, fun laughs.
Nobody said that self-examination is a full time job. How boring! There has to be time spent enjoying nature, cities, art, music, and everything else available to love on earth.
|
|
|
|
.... seems like myself I've suddenly got a slight case of CRAP-POST Can't Resist Again&Again to Post - Perfectly Obvious or Silly Things You're right Cynthia, there's probably more to life than humor. I should get serious here again. But there you go, bossing me around telling
me I have to spend time enjoying nature and love on earth. Sheesh.... how do you add smileys in the text?!  Oh like that.
Modified by tarvuist at Tue, May 09, 2017, 17:37:46
|
|
|
|
Not bad, got the first sentence right but not the second - I'm actually just not bossy enough to be thinking you should go do anything! 
|
|
|
|
"Does any of this make sense?"
sure does Jasper.
There I was thinking I must be a terrible mess of a person and trying to improve myself only to discover no actually it's me that's the nice one and not being a problem at all.
I'd lived like that for so long, it was a real surprise. gas lighting at it's finest.
|
|
|
|
Yes indeed, I'm still getting to the bottom of the NV syndrome. Quite a turn around. I have to remind myself once in a while that I deserve to feel good, much like Cynthia was saying, it's not a full time job unravelling the post traumatic stress,making room for some actual self reflection.When I look at Prem Rawat and his motivations and how he copes (or not) with his inner being and all his mad influence I figure I'm doing just fine. I'm glad I still want to do better,to extend a more loving influence, the higher qualities of self in my world. With Prem Rawat what looked like giving was in fact taking. I am glad I have more discernment. Thanks to you all
|
|
|
|
i did click on the link you provided and wound up downloading the book on "nvs" - i never do this - but was attracted and finished the book in 2 days - i loved it and somehow it is very relevant in my life now
|
|
|
|
Glad it helped. The way I process things is mostly through intellectual understanding and the more information, the better. My perspective about Rawat as a Narcissist has really helped me to come to terms with what happened. Thanks for your feedback!
|
|
|
|
"I was spoon fed a set of values and required behaviors, backed up by threats and all kinds of guilt trips, for decades. And I ate every bite! It would be unrealistic to think that there was no deep psycho/mental/emotional impact from all of that brainwashing."
Thank you for this valuable insight Jasper. And for the link you posted on narcissism. Getting educated on the topic is indeed very necessary on the way to recovery.
|
|
|
