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I was thinkin' how in the old days goom raji would get all heavy with us and then lighten things up at the end by tearing a strip off his mahatmas or initiators, or some honcho or what-have-you. Actually, it was nauseatingly routine of him to talk derisively about someone and this would serve at once to put this person in his place, grovelling at his lotus feet one presumes. It also allowed the rest of us hoi-polloi to feel this false sense of smugness and comic relief that it wasn't us. But at the same time it served notice that we were all really know-nothing idiots compared to our-lard-who-art-in heaven.Anyway, at this one program I remember, this demeaning and sarcastic prem-pal was in his element(and Hilltop if you are reading this - feel free to help out with any verbatim quotes). After roughing us up during his discourse (discharge?)with some heavy surrender/devotion crapola he offers us the soothing balm of "returning home to our rat-holes" like the poor, confused pack of rodents we were in his enlightened eyes. To me this little snippet of uber-arrogance typifies Rawat's attitude towards us. The bloated, self-indulgent creep. There, I feel better now.
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Anyway, at this one program I remember, this demeaning and sarcastic prem-pal was in his element(and Hilltop if you are reading this - feel free to help out with any verbatim quotes). After roughing us up during his discourse (discharge?)with some heavy surrender/devotion crapola he offers us the soothing balm of "returning home to our rat-holes" like the poor, confused pack of rodents we were in his enlightened eyes.
Yeah, I remember that, the rat hole comment and how Rawat would scream and yell and tell us what worthless, ungrateful scum we were, and then lighten up, and we would feel oh, so grateful, that the displeased parent once again accepted us, and would not abandon us. This is a common manipulative technique by cult leaders, kidnappers, CIA interrogators and prison guards, not to mention abusive husbands towards their abused wives. Rawat did it all the time, and I'm sure he still does. It's how he controls people, or at least one of the ways. It's really sick. And I have heard that he does it all the time in interpersonal relationships among the people he hires, like his servants, the skipper of his yacht, etc. He abuses them and then lets up and is nice. The self-esteem-destroyed premie is just so fucking grateful and is full of "that gratitude."
What amazes me, is that current premies have completely repressed all that, even the really explicit stuff from those days, like the "rat hole" satsang you mentioned and have convinced themselves it never happened.
I think for many ex-premies, once they get away from that destructive relationship with Malibu Prem, there is a certain degree of anger and resentment towards him at how he manipulated us in that way.
Modified by Joe at Thu, Oct 27, 2005, 13:27:07
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Hi Dr. wow and Joe too,I check in here a couple times a week to read, nowadays. That quote you mentioned about "returning home to our rat-holes" I have that quote somewhere. Please understand that there are hundreds if not more... nasty mind abusing quotes from Prem Rawat. So many that it is hard to keep track of them all. So for now I'm posting this attachment that is a small medley from Prem Rawat's talks that were posted in 'The Archives' (page 14) and in the last part of this attachment Prem does mention rat holes. Sorry if the load time is long and for not having the dates. Sincerely, Hilltop
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Thanks Hilltop. A lot of the quotes you took the time to locate and post illustrate exactly the heavy surrender/devotion gibberish that was being foisted on us at that time. The rathole quote wasn't the specific one that I was referring to (and once again I thank you for taking the time to research your archives - I gather you can't exactly do a "keyword" search) but in doing so you have brought up another can of rodents: The damaging dichotomy that Rawat promoted pitting our minds against our "true selves".The idea that mind is a kind of boogey-man, the devil, a rat-hole, which is intent on keeping us from the bliss. And that we need to have faith in him to defeat this "enemy". That Knowledge is the antidote of this mind. While I can appreciate that Rawat is not the first person to create this fighting the devil routine, scriptures and many ministers play upon this theme for instance, nevertheless it is harmful. The idea that we needed Rawat (or his knowledge or grace) to fight the demon mind created a lot of unnecessary strife. Starting right at the knowledge kits that used to be handed out at the knowledge session with a letter from Rawat himself congratulating us on receiving knowledge but with the warning about the presence of the evil mind. So, now that we are eating from the tree of Knowledge we now know that we are naked . . . like that with a sinister edge. It was false and unnecessary and Rawat used it to suggest why we needed him to help us take a "permanent vacation" from this dreaded thing. Go figure, eh?
Modified by Dr.wow at Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 10:03:34
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Hi! Yes, I remember one program I went to (can't remember exactly where or when but I probably have a record of it in one of my innumerable journals!) where Michael Nouri spoke for a while, and then the Big Honcho himself came on stage and proceeded to trash Michael Nouri's "concepts". I remember feeling quite shocked at the time, and even a little sorry for Michael. And VERY glad I was not in his shoes! But did I think that was wrong? No, not at that time...all submerged under the general happy premie bliss etc.etc.etc. What could an ordinary mortal like me possibly know what it was really all about????? But I'd put that episode on my list of drips now, for sure. (Don't remember any references to "back to the Rat-Hole", but there was always a feeling that being at the event was the ultimate and everything else a perpetual "groundhog day". Anyone remember that reference?)
~Shelagh
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I remember that satsang and thinking..but that rat-hole Im going back to is one of his ashrams.Hmmm??
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I remember being deeply insulted by the Rat-Hole comment.
Here I was, meditating on the Knowledge of all Knowledges, one spark of which makes everything perfect, connected to the ancient truth of Holy Name that all the scriptues talk of, feeling mellow and tuned in, and suddenly Maharaji says I'm a rat living a hole.
It was my first big, "Something is wrong here." I should have listened to my gut and left then.
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That's great that you were even capable of feeling insulted by Rawat. That means you weren't competely gone in to devotional zombie land.
During that period especially, I suspended completely any idea that anything Rawat said wasn't perfect and directly related to saving me, no matter how uncomfortable it was.
And I think the phenomena was like this. The heavier and more abusive Maharaji got, the stronger the "devotional" and "love" blather got as well. It was like the more abusive and negative Rawat was, the more essential it was to believe that he loved you and you loved him. It's completely counterintuitive, unless you are in a cult. I had a hard time relating to the devotional love aspect, so I think my solution was just to become numb.
But the fact that you could actually feel insulted, I think, means you weren't as far gone as I was.
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I used to be embarrassed and bewildered when he jokily but nevertheless cuttingly insulted the initiators/instuctors.He usually went into a jokey phase towards the end of his "discourse" at an event...would slag them off ,sometimes ( if my memory is correct) mentioning one or two by name.
He made it feel like the lower echelon premies couldn't trust the initiators.I thought that if I couldn't trust them ( as their master didn't seem to) I'd better just do my own thing.
It was confusing because some of them seemed so "devoted" and had given up their lives to him.It appeared so ungrateful on the part of Rawat.I think they would be "blissed out" because the lord had mentioned their name,albeit in a derogatory sense; they were still getting "special" treatment.Any attention was better than no attention.....sad really...and -never leaving room for doubt in my mind- I pushed to one side the part of me that felt that sadness on their behalf.
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I recall that Rawat would make fun and criticize the initiators as a group. I remember he said they lived on "concept street" and said they only did real service when they were in "a good mood" and stuff like that.
But only certain initiators did he make fun of by name, and I think to them, they were actually flattered, as the Lord was actually recognizing them as a person, giving them attention, even if it was to be made fun of.
I always took at as a kind of play, but it did make me uncomfortable when he singled somebody out to be made fun of.
One of the reasons I think he made fun of the Initiators was to keep them cut down to size. Certain of them were much more dynamic speakers than Rawat could ever hope to be, and actually had a very charismatic presence. Bill Patterson and Randy Prouty were probably that way, and even Joan Apter in her own weird way was kind of charismatic, or at least had a kind of hysterical stage presence. I think Rawat was jealous of that, and didn't want any competition from total devotion to HIM. So, I think that's partly why he did it.
I don't think he ever made fun of Jagdeo, however, or at least not that I recall.
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