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Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics
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Posted by:
Mick ®

03/21/2005, 14:04:13
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Hi guys:
I just researched the Maharishi cult the last 2 weeks, and here are some of the scary things I discovered -- there's some really amazing stuff here:

From the Fall 1991 issue of ScienceWriters:
The Newsletter of the National Association of Science Writers

http://www.aaskolnick.com/naswmav.htm

The Maharishi Caper: Or How to Hoodwink Top Medical Journals

by Andrew A. Skolnick,
associate editor for the Journal of the American Medical Association's Medical News & Perspectives Department
-----------------------------------------------
Science and Medical Journalist
MA, Medical News & Perspectives, Oct. 2, 1991
AUTHOR(s):Skolnick, Andrew A.
TITLE(s):
http://www.aaskolnick.com

http://www.aaskolnick.com/mav.htm

Maharishi Ayur-Veda: guru's marketing scheme
promises the world eternal 'perfect health'

(Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's pseudo-scientific stunts to promote his health program & products)
DESCRIPTORS:Mahesh, Maharishi YogiMarketing Chopra, Deepak Moral and ethical aspects Sharma, Hari M.Moral and ethical aspects Triguna, Brihaskpati Dev Moral and ethical aspects Maharishi Ayur-Veda Products International Inc. Marketing American Association of Ayurvedic Medicine Management JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association (Periodical) Publishing Medicine, Ayurvedic Marketing JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association 0098-7484Oct 2 1991, v266, n13, p1741(6)
© American Medical Association 1991
---------------------------------------------------
You can also read the following informative articles and webpages, simply by clicking onto each of the following links:

http://jama.highwire.org/content/vol266/issue13/index.dtl (to also access the journal's archives for this article: Vol. 266 No. 13, pp. 1739-1867, October 2, 1991)

and "TM's deceptions": http://www.rickross.com/reference/tm/tm2.html

here is a Dr. Charles Elder on the Maharishi Ayurveda site's webpage peddling their products: http://www.amrit.info/doctors/article-edgefreeradicals-3.html

[incidentally, the 'doctors' endorsing the Maharishi cult products and all the bogus 'studies' cited on the Ayurveda page links are Maharishi cult devotees, not independent unbiased physicians]

and here's Charley Elder again pimping for the amrita voodoo juice and magical "nectar paste" [butter with herbs] on another page:
http://www.mapi.com/en/newsletters/newsletter02junamrit.html

Wow, how 'bout those arteries now, cardiovascular patients, huh?!! That's Real BUTTER!

Wonder what Elder's cut of the ayurveda profits is, huh?! And isn't that patently unethical? Well, according to the JAMA, it is...

and on the Maharishi Channel: Here's Elder claiming 'yogic flying' through the air is scientifically valid in a number of studies:
http://www.mou.org/media/articles/2003_03_26_oregon.html
"Dr. Charles Elder, a Portland internist who practices meditation, said he commonly runs into skeptics who don’t believe in the benefits of collective meditation, much less yogic flying." [THE OREGONIAN
March 26, 2003]

Maybe Elder's the same guy who came up with the 'tooth fairy,' too! Except there's no multi-billion dollar profit in that scam...

Elder teaching Maharishi-style medicine at the Maharishi cult's classes: http://www.mcvmnm.org/MCVM%20Home/mcvmnm%20contin-ed.htm
the Maharishi College of Vedic Medicine: http://www.mcvmnm.org/

Here's the Maharishi cult member cookbook these doctors push on patients (as [Heaven's Banquet, by Miriam Hospodar]):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0525943838/102-1194863-5777763
NOTE: "Ayurveda-- a $2 billion market"

same book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452282780/qid=1111134710/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-5567718-4594518?v=glance&s=books

look, there's cult figure Chopra along with other cult members cited on the same page!

Here's the Maharishi cult member medical reference book (along with the cookbook, and "Maharishi Ayurveda" brand medicine, pushed on Kaiser Permanente 'alternative medicine' patients[Contemporary Ayurveda: Medicine and Research in Maharishi Ayur-Veda, by Hari Sharma and Chris Clark]:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0443055947/qid=1111141931/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5567718-4594518?v=glance&s=books

NOTE: Reviews

Here's an insider's account -- a former TM teacher -- of the deliberately deceitful and sinister practices of the Maharishi cult, and Maharishi's instructions on how to mislead and indoctrinate newcomers into their brainwashing mind-control religious cult - by LYING:
http://www.myownmind.com/extmteacher.cfm
Note the former TM instructor's accounts of psychological disorders, tics, and suicidal impulses manifested among many of those subjected to the Maharishi cult's TM teacher trainings [TTC] -- and due to the conditioning and indoctrination by trainers upon trainees while experiencing trance-induction during the prolonged sessions.

Lying seems to be the stock in trade of the Maharishi cult's numerous get-rich-quick guru-doctor-quacks. For instance, Maharishi cult member John Gray - Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, was caught flat-out lying about his phony degrees on national television ("Inside Edition"): his alleged 'PhD' in Psychology was a 'matchbook' college degree from diploma-mill Columbia Pacific University - which was just a P.O. Box that was finally shut down by the State of California, as exposed on NBC television. He is supposed to be a 'clinical psychologist.' BS! Fact: when pinned down by MSNBC and national journalists, he could not produce even a high school diploma! And he never attended a single class in psychology to get his phony degree. Yet, some uninformed mental health and family counselors cite the phony 'Dr.' Gray's book, etc.
For the record: Maharishi cult member "Dr. John Gray" has NO accredited degrees, nada, zip, 0, and he couldn't even produce a h.s. diploma:JOHN GRAY FIRES BACK AT CRITIC WHO QUESTIONED HIS CREDENTIALS…TELLS INSIDE EDITION “I’M NOT A FRAUD”

:http://www.insideedition.com/investigative/johngray.htm

And the phony 'Dr' John Gray stormed off the set, after ranting and screaming angrily on national television: I don't need a PhD. "I'm the most famous author in the world!"
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_03/003504.php
and at
http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000699.html

If so, then, why did he put the PhD in big letters on all his books, lectures, etc.? To help sell himself, as an authority figure, of course.

See what I mean about the Maharishi cult, how they've indoctrinated their members to habitually lie and deceive?

There's more:
here are all the "secret" Maharishi TM techniques -- mantras -- religious words and worship to ancient Hindu devas/devis [gods/goddesses] repeated over and over in one's head - for 'enlightenment':
http://minet.org/mantras.html


Note: Ayurveda Techniques
Primordial Sound - "AMRITA," used as a mantra


Three recent studies on the Transcendental Meditation technique find it ineffectual at best, and damaging for some, in a variety of applications: http://trancenet.org/

and: http://www.trancenet.org/secrets/mantras.shtml
When Is a "Meaningless Sound" Not Meaningless? When It's a Tantric Name of a Hindu God!

and proof that TM IS A RELIGION: the TM Initiator's Oath:
http://www. trancenet.org/secrets/puja/oath.shtml

November 18, 2003 ::
Maharishi may be the richest "cult" leader in the world.
Click: http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000696.html
According to the Hartford Advocate newspaper: Maharishi controls combined real estate and business holdings of at least $3.6 billion dollars reports the Hartford Advocate. Though some estimate his vast financial empire is really worth closer to $5 billion.

TM-EX NEWSLETTER
TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION EX-MEMBERS SUPPORT GROUP:
click: http://www.minet.org/TM-EX/Fall-90

Washington D.C.

APPEASING THE GODS FOR BETTER HEALTH?
Recently many meditators in the Washington D.C. community have
received pleas for help. A member of the movement has a debilitating
illness, endometriosis. A group of meditators are requesting money to
have ceremonies conducted in India called yagyas.

It seems that TM-affiliated Maharishi Ayurvedic doctors feel a $11,500 offering to the Hindu gods will do the necessary work. If that amount cannot be raised, a $8,500 yagya would be ``less than recommended''.
If all else fails, a $3,300 yagya will suffice. According to the
letter being circulated, ``Dr. Lonsdorf's primary recommendation is
that the patient receive a Yagya as soon as possible''.

Mahesh Yogi in his translation of the Bhagavad Gita (1) says ``the
gross aspect [of yagya] deals with ritualistic performances to please
different Vedic gods and win their blessings, while the subtle aspect
[of yagya] deals with training the mind to contact higher powers and
receive their blessings.'' ~

1. Mahesh Yogi, Bhagavad Gita, New Translation and Commentary
Chapters 1-6 Livingston Manor, NY: M.I.U. Press 1976 pg. 142.


Fairfield, Iowa
THE REAL STORY: SIDHA SUICIDE

I'd known Mark Totten for years. He had no medical problems. Likeable
and unassuming, my friend had cut his roots to his New England home
and heritage some years ago. He had reached for the Maharishi's exotic
offering; gave his money, mind and speech for Yogi's game of
enlightenment.

``He must have found something here,'' Norman Totten said, bewildered
in the M.I.U. chapel, afterhaving to ask for the time to speak at
his son's memorial service on Friday, November 30. He knew of nothing
that was wrong with his son. Mark's sister added she didn't know why her brother killed himself.

Article: from The Independent on Sunday, August 19, 1990. ~ England, UK

CULT DOCTORS INVESTIGATED OVER HERBAL ANTI-AIDS PILLS

Two Harley Street doctors have been accused of offering patients a
3000 pound-a-year treatment for AIDS, which offeres ``no substantive
benefit''. Dr. Roger Chalmers and Dr. Leslie Davis belong to front
organizations for the controversial Indian-based cult of
Transcendental Meditation, or TM, and the pills are provided by the
cult.

The General Medical Council has started preliminary investigations
after complaints by the partner of a dead patient and by Britain's
leading AIDS charity, the Terrence Higgins Trust.

Independent scientific tests...suggest that Maharishi pills are in
fact worthless as a potential treatment for AIDS. The tests, conducted
by the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control at
Potters Bar, found that Maharishi pills had at best a negligible
effect on the HIV virus, which cause AIDS.

The Institute arranged two sets of test-tube experiments. Weight for
weight, relative to any effect against HIV, Maharishi pills were found
to be at least 100,000 times more toxic that the established AIDS
drug, AZT.

Dr. Chalmers describes himself to patients as the ``Dean of Medicine
of the Maharishi University of Natural Law, Mentmore''. Dr. Davis
says he is the ``Dean of Physiology''. But the ``Maharishi University,
Mentmore'' is officially unrecognized, has no medical students and no
power to confer degrees.

The Maharishi Ayurveda health system, which was put on the market by
the Maharishi in about 1985, has helped boost sales of the
once-fashionable and very costly TM courses.

Sales are not limited to the AIDS market. Dr. Davis admits that ``the
main aspect of Maharishi Ayurveda is Transcendental Meditation''.

Warnings have been given about the side-effects of both TM and the
Maharishi Ayurveda diets. The British Dietetic Association has
recently advised AIDS patients about potential dangers from the
Maharishi Ayurveda diet.

U.S.A. MAHARISHI'S MEDICINE MAN
Most of the findings [on Maharishi Ayurveda] are still unpublished,
and so haven't been reviewed by other scientists. And some argue that
the research carries a bias because it was either done primarily by
scientists who are avowed meditators or affiliated with a Maharishi
International University or it was funded by a Maharishi linked foundation.

``We realize the importance of scientific research by people who aren't
`insiders','' says Chopra in response to such criticism. ``But what
are we to do if a scientist becomes so convinced of their value that
he begins meditating and following all the practices himself? That
happens all the time.''

One such scientist, pathologist Hari Sharma of Ohio State University,
has for two years studied Maharishi Amrit Kalash. ``I didn't expect
to see positive results,'' he says. ``I had to be shown, and now I'm
a convert.'' In Health, May/June, 1990, Debra Franklin
Note: Documents obtained from the Iowa Consumer Protection Division (July 1977) list

Hari M. Sharma, M.D. as one of the "people currently on Citizen's
Advanced Courses Phase 1." It seems Dr. Sharma was a "convert" long
before doing research on Maharishi Ayurveda. ~

That's the very same HARI SHARMA who wrote the 'medical' reference book pushed on member patients at Kaiser Permanente clinics (and who was mentioned in the JAMA article).
-------------------------------
from: http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/fall02/integrateKPNW.html

Elder: "The KPNW Regional Pharmacy Committee has appointed a natural products subcommittee charged with educating members and clinicians about herbal supplements and with evaluating supplements for potential inclusion in the over-the-counter shelves of KP pharmacies. The committee conducts evidence reviews of popular herbal extracts and is responsible for identifying appropriate suppliers with good manufacturing practices."

and: http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/winter03/camcare.html

and: The Permanente Journal/Winter 2003/ Volume 7 No. 1
health systems
Application of the Cooperative Health Care Clinic
Model for Delivery of Complementary/Alternative
Medicine (CAM) Care
By Charles Elder MD, MPH, FACP
Abstract

Clinic Content
The group clinic had an interactive didactic format
designed to provide patients with a cognitive frame-
work for evaluating and integrating CAM modalities.
The clinic was designed also to offer patients practical
ideas for diet, daily routine, and behavior modification
that could be implemented immediately.
The content of the didactic segment was based sub-
stantially on the Vedic Medicine
9-12


"The procedure in our clinic is to direct
most patients who wish to purchase herbal prod-
ucts to a single, well-established, ISO-9001-certi-
fied supplier "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
fReferences
1. Kessler RC, Davis RB, Foster DF, et al. Long-term trends in
the use of complementary and alternative medical
therapies in the United States. Ann Intern Med 2001 Aug
21;135(4):262-8.
2. Gordon NP, Sobel DS. Use of and interest in complemen-
tary and alternative therapies among clinicians and adult
members of the Kaiser Permanente Northern California
Region: results of a 1996 survey. Perm J 1999 Sum-
mer;3(2):44-55.
3. Noffsinger EB. Increasing quality of care and access while
reducing costs through drop-in group medical appoint-
ments. Group Practice Journal 1999 Jan;48(1):12-8.
4. Noffsinger EB. Answering physician concerns about drop-in
group medical appointments. Group Practice Journal 1999
Feb;48(2):14-21.
5. Noffsinger EB. Benefits of drop-in group medical
appointments to physicians and patients. Group Practice
Journal 1999 Mar;48(3):21-8.
6. Noffsinger EB. Establishing successful primary care and
subspecialty drop-in group medical appointments in your
group practice. Group Practice Journal 1999 Apr;48(4):20-8.
7. Noffsinger EB. Physicians evaluate the impact of drop-in
group medical appointments on their practices. Group
Practice Journal 1999 Jun;48(6):22-33.
8. Beck A, Scott J, Williams P, et al. A randomized trial of
group outpatient visits for chronically ill older HMO
members: the Cooperative Health Care Clinic. J Am Geriatr
Soc 1997 May;45(5):543-9.
9. Sharma HM, Clark C. Contemporary Ayurveda: medicine
and research in Maharishi Ayur-Veda. New York: Churchill
Livingstone; 1998.
10. Sharma HM, Alexander CN. Maharishi Ayurveda: research
review. Part One: Maharishi Ayurveda and TM. Comple-
mentary Medicine International 1996 Jan-Feb;3(1):21-28.
11. Sharma HM, Alexander CN. Maharishi Ayurveda: research
review. Part Two: Maharishi Ayurveda herbal food
supplements and additional strategies. Complementary
Medicine International 1996 Mar-Apr;3(2):17-28.
12. Nadkarni KM. Indian materia medica with Ayurvedic,
Unani-Tiobbi, Siddha, allopathic, homeopathic, naturo-
pathic & home remedies, appendices and indexes. 3rd ed,
revised and enlarged by AK Nadkarni. Bombay: Popular
Book Depot; 1954.
13. Landmark Healthcare. The Landmark report I on public
perceptions of alternative care: selected findings [Web site].
Available from: www.landmarkhealthcare.com/98tlrI.htm
(acces

Look at the references: Sharma, Sobel, and Nadkami are all Maharishi cult freaks.

see this revealing piece about Sobel and his bogus Canadian govt-funded research [with No control groups or independent medicial scrutiny]: http://www.healthy.net/scr/column.asp?PageType=column&ID=193

These are Maharishi cult doctors getting prohibited govt. funding for their bogus self-serving studies in support of their RELIGION (and with no comparison control groups, no independent objective oversight; they compile and report the data themselves without verification:

Elder's US govt funding: http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00065650


TM is a religion

Federal courts ruled years ago that Maharishi's TM is a religion (Malnak v. Yogi, 440 F.Supp. 1284 (1977), affirmed, 592 F.2d 197 (3rd Cir. 1979).  Government funding to propagate TM is therefore unconstitutional.
This decision was also reaffirmed by the Superior Court of the District of Columbia, Diane Hendel vs. WPEC,MIU 01, 1996.

During the Carter Administration the Department of Health, Education & Welfare (HEW) and the New Jersey Department of Education funded an "experiment" to teach TM and its "Science of Creative Intelligence" (TM/SCI) as an elective in five public high schools.  Teachers specially trained by TM taught students four or five days a week.  If it "worked" the course would be taught statewide.

Several parents, the Spiritual Counterfeits Project, Inc. (a Christian group based in Berkeley, California) and Americans United for Separation of Church and State asked the U.S. District Court for New Jersey to enjoin this experiment.  These plaintiffs argued that TM was a religion and that the teaching of TM in public schools and the government funding were both an "Establishment of Religion" in violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution.  TM representatives argued that TM is a secular science, not a religion.

Federal Judge J. Curtis Meanor ruled that TM is a religion.  He enjoined HEW Secretary Joseph A. Califano, Jr., N.J. Commissioner Fred G. Burke, school officials and TM's umbrella organization itself from using public funds to propagate TM.  The Third Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia unanimously affirmed.  Judge Meanor's injunction is still in effect today.

These judges looked to the religious nature of Maharishi's SCI textbook, which was being taught, and the religious nature of his puja initiation ceremony, which TMers must go through individually to receive their secret meditation mantra.  Without that mantra it is impossible to practice TM.

At the compulsory "puja" [worship] ceremony, held outside the school building, each student brought some fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief that were taken and laid on a table in a closed room.  The student's teacher would bow and make offerings many times to an 8" by 12" color photograph of Guru Dev, said to be Maharishi's teacher, who had died in the 1950s.  Each student's teacher also sang a chant in Sanksrit and the student received "his own personal mantra which is never to be revealed to any other person." (592 F.2d at 198.)

TM witnesses swore that the chant was a purely secular expression of gratitude to teachers.  However, Judge Meanor read an English translation prepared by TM and found not one word of thanks in it.  Rather, the chant describes a deified Guru Dev as "the Lord" and "Him" (with a capital “H”), among a slew of divine epithets quoted by Judge Meanor.  For example:   
The Unbounded, like the endless canopy of the sky, the omnipresent in all creation to Him, to Shri Guru Dev, I bow down, the Eternal, the Pure, the Immovable ... to Shri Guru Dev, I bow down. 

Rabbi Seymour Siegel, Professor of Theology at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City, swore that in  "the cultural setting of the United States and in the tradition of both Hebrew and Christian theology" such terms are "descriptive exclusively of a Supreme Being or God."

Researchers will find that the District Court opinion in Malnak v. Yogi extensively excerpts Maharishi's "scientific" SCI textbook and reprints the full text of his puja ceremony chant.

------------------------

The Natural Law Party, headquartered at Maharishi University, Fairfield, Iowa [Maharishi cult's plan to take over the world]
USA: http://www.politics1.com/nlp2k.htm
UK: http//www.natural-law-party.org.uk/conference2000/Healthcarefor21century.htm


also:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/t/tm/dissenter.htm

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/t/tm/mdd.htm

http://skepdic.com/ayurvedic.html [r.e. Deepak Chopra]

http://www.suggestibility.org/

Best wishes,

Mick







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Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics
Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- Mick Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
PatD ®

03/21/2005, 15:23:44
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Premies seem to go more for the higher bullshit in the field of employee motivation/training, & that's probably because Rawat cut himself off from basecamp due to falling out with his big brother Satpal over the inheritance. I notice, from following the links on the new most excellent Prem info site, that Bal Bhagwan Ji is into the Ayurvedic medicine business now.

Well, who knows, cut out the cow shit that stuff seems to be cut with & there might just be something worthwhile there. Worthwhile mega bucks wise too,for anyone in on the ground floor, given the increasingly insatiable desire of people in the rich countries to look younger & live longer & never mind the dodgy science. Ancient wisdom with novelty value & the right marketing is a sure fire winner.

Prem's missed that opportunity though,seeing as how he spent all those years telling people their bodies were just an illusion, & implying that the cure for everything was his 'meditation'. Even though he got people to slave for nothing, tarting up cars, houses,& aeroplanes,& giving him all their money, you can't beat
your agricultural peons as a foundation for real wealth. There's nothing like a few tens of thousands of devotees out plucking roots,leaves,seeds & berries, then grinding them up with pestle 'n mortar, to give you a big head start at the interface of fashion & medecine.

Paris,Rome,London,New York............that's what it says on all those little $500 bottles of scent, & the people who buy those bottles are increasingly interested in buying litte tubs of green yuck at more or less the same price.

Too bad Prem, you're stuck with the spiritual tourism side of the business, & of course, motivating..........







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Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics
Re: Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- PatD Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 15:19:37
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Couldn't M try to find some physician to help market a miracle health program, based on K? The only dilemma would be it would take some attention away from M, unless this doc glorified the lard of the universe at all the events, and did not accept any money but forwarded it to M. They could expand EV to have a research facility to "scientifically prove" that M's techniques do wonders for everyone's health. But then, you got the problem of M's health issues (alcohol, pot, effects of easy living, overweight, etc.) and difficulties he would have demonstrating any physical fitness demonstrations, to make his products look good.






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Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics
Re: Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
PatD ®

03/22/2005, 18:48:47
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Quite apart from the fact that he's hardly a good advertisement for his own product, Rawat's problem, if he wanted to exploit the health benefits of his techniques, is... what are they exactly?

Opthalmology is one of those medical specialities with a tiny number of cutting edge practitioners. I believe there are fewer than 50 in the UK, I don't know about the US or other countries, who could honestly evaluate the long term effects of pressing the eyeballs, or who would even be aware that some people were doing that long term.

Sometime in the'80's he had a knowledge review where he personally emphasised the importance of not pressing, but of just giving it a light touch. Without pressing to some extent the 'light' can't be seen, & I often wondered why das lordy had done that.

I reckon that the only studies ever done on this were Space Program/Military, & that his advisors got wind of negative outcomes, & told him to cover his arse. The little info I've been able to find on this subject suggests that pressing the eyeballs is a very bad idea.








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Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi ........addendum
Re: Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- PatD Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
PatD ®

03/22/2005, 19:21:36
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I reckon that the only studies ever done on this were Space Program/Military

I just re-read that & realise it's unclear. I'm not suggesting that Nasa studied premies or anyone else doing the light technique,only that it's the only environment I can think of where the effect of pressure changes on the eyeball would be the subject of any study.






Modified by PatD at Tue, Mar 22, 2005, 19:23:13

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but M could control statistics in his own studies...
Re: Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- PatD Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/23/2005, 09:10:55
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M's marketing directors would control the supposed "research" and use current premies, who would be instructed on how to respond to each question (this of course, would not be included in the abstract or research methodologies section of the Journal of Elan Vital Studies, M's new magazine) and charts/graphs, etc. would be displayed on expensive glossy paper. Some way or another, they would have to argue that pushing the eye balls is good, despite evidence to the contrary. With EV controlling the so-called research to claim health benefits, and also if they could hire some docs who are premies, he could try pulling it off.
BUT I STILL THINK THAT THE DVD OF M DOING HIS DANCING, A GREATEST HITS ALBUM, WOULD BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.






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Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics
Re: Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- PatD Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 15:19:37
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YOGIC FLYING
Re: Exposed: hellbent Maharishi cult fanatics infiltrate medical profession, politics -- Mick Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 13:56:11
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I wonder how the Yogic Flying program of Maharishi could be helpful to one's health, especially one's back? I guess that Maharaji never claimed to able to levitate?
Anyway, the TM version of Yogic Flying, which by the way costs several thousand dollars for the weekend "courses", is nothing more than hopping up and down on mats in a yoga sitting position, so it appears to me. Its not levitation.

Did Guru M ever claim to levitate, or teach courses on it? (ha ha)







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Re: YOGIC FLYING
Re: YOGIC FLYING -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/22/2005, 14:03:21
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"Did Guru M ever claim to levitate, or teach courses on it?"
No but he did claim to be permanently in the infinite state(see Satguru has come) and to be greater than God and to be the oak tree amongst the weeds.

But yogic flying he left to the weeds.

I am sure he is bursting his gut realising how much money Maharishi has made.







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Re: YOGIC FLYING
Re: Re: YOGIC FLYING -- Jethro Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 14:11:24
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Maharishi, I hear, says that he doesn't levitate in front of anyone because he needs to be alone for the meditation (thus no eye witnesses, etc.). He is older now also. Now, concerning M, the so-called Lord of the Universe, isn't he kind of out of shape physically? He's not nearly as old as Maharishi, but could you picture him trying to demonstrate "yogic flying" techniques to a class? Would his health be good enough to show aspirants how to hop around on mats from a traditional, yogic sitting position, and not hurt his back, or his heart? Could you picture M selling this on one of his videos..... how would he orchestrate it to look good as the instructor?






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You just haven't got it andries
Re: Re: YOGIC FLYING -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
hamzen ®

03/22/2005, 18:10:16
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Until you let go of ALL your concepts you will never get the prawns message, truth is truth, full stop, everything else is an illusion, this is why you need gm andries, you see even after these years of devotion you stillcannot contact the mindless sorry pure consciousness state, there's no hope for you andries

You really need to learn to humble and open like a little child, no concepts, then god will visit you regularly.

 

 







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As a matter of fact, Rawat DID claim he cld make things levitate!
Re: YOGIC FLYING -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jim ®

03/22/2005, 14:29:18
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Hilltop found this quote recently.  The red's my emphasis.  Rawat rarely said things like this but once in a while he'd tease us with something like this:

There was one mahatma and he had Guru Maharaj Ji's Knowledge.  And this mahatma meditated and meditated and meditated, and I guess finally took control of what he took control of.  And so he was able to lift water and bring it to his lips to drink it just by looking at it, and perform this and perform that.  He used to live in Prem Nagar.  (For whoever has been to Prem Nagar, at that time the big building wasn't there.  There was only the little building with the arches and the little kitchen-type set-up.)  And Guru Maharaj Ji came and everybody came and did pranam. Except for this one. 

And it was like, "Come on man, what are you guys doing?  Look at me.  I have realized it!"  Just like that, mind comes.  "Yeah, you've got it  man.  You've got it."  I mean, yes, he had been revealed the Knowledge.  He had brought his realization to such an incredible level to be able to control the elements of nature.  He could have, at that point, just split. And actually he did.  His mind segregated him from being a devotee of Guru Maharaj Ji. 

Now remember.  He still had Knowledge.  He was still at the ashram.  And yet when Guru Maharaj Ji came, he didn't do pranam.  He didn't get up and do pranam.  So Guru Maharaj Ji took one look at him and said, "What are you doing?  What's up?"  Guru Maharaj Ji I guess had heard the story and Guru Maharaj Ji said, "Listen, that's my Knowledge through which you think you have attained so much.  And when you can't surrender to me, 'ciao'  That's it, kiddo.  Finished."

And Guru Maharaj Ji walked away.  And this guy sat there and tried to make that water come up to him and nothing happened!  He tried to perform all his miracles and nothing happened.  And that's the difference right there.

The attributionPrem Rawat's talk at Holi, Miami, 4/8/79 From the Divine Times May/June 1979 Volume 8, Number 3, Page 16.






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He also claimed that he could unzip the sky and make all
Re: As a matter of fact, Rawat DID claim he cld make things levitate! -- Jim Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/22/2005, 14:33:16
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people without knowledge float 6 feet above the ground!






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You ex premies with all this speculation, tut tut Jethro
Re: He also claimed that he could unzip the sky and make all -- Jethro Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
hamzen ®

03/22/2005, 19:04:59
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cmon jed, time and place, time and place

no meaning without context

etc etc







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He did say that, ham
Re: You ex premies with all this speculation, tut tut Jethro -- hamzen Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Joe ®

03/22/2005, 19:53:58
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Or at least it was repeated to the premies by others that he said that.






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Hamzen, see the now( X-rated video) called 'The Greatest Magician'
Re: You ex premies with all this speculation, tut tut Jethro -- hamzen Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/22/2005, 22:47:37
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I can just hear that high squeaky voice telling how we don't realise how powerful GMJ is,
"..and if Guru Maharaj Ji wanted to He could unzip the sky, poke his head out ..."

Maybe you should ask Ron Aka Geaves, since he is writing the history. Or maybe David Passes will stop waiting for THE phonecall and verify that.(Hi Dave, if you are reading. Finnished that Superman comic yet?)
Don't bother asking Judy Osborne or Randy Pratt, they have problems with recall.

It is clear that YOU did delay in attending satsang or you would remember.







Modified by Jethro at Tue, Mar 22, 2005, 23:01:01

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Not Randy Pratt, it's Randy Prouty and here he is
Re: Hamzen, see the now( X-rated video) called 'The Greatest Magician' -- Jethro Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Joe ®

03/23/2005, 11:30:07
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Older, a bit severe looking, but still a snappy dresser!  Whatever happened to his memory?  Selective memory?  Too long ago?  Randy wouldn't remember a particular report of sexual molestation because there were so many?

Uploaded file
Randy_Prouty.JPG ( bytes)  





Modified by Joe at Wed, Mar 23, 2005, 12:57:24

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Re: Not Randy Pratt, it's Randy Prouty and here he is
Re: Not Randy Pratt, it's Randy Prouty and here he is -- Joe Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/23/2005, 14:20:25
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Joe,

Don't you know that in many cults it is ok to 'lie for the truth'. It is called divine deception. Scientologists and (former) Iskonites are particularly practiced at this. It saddens me that premies have bought into the same poison.

Now regarding Pratt/Prouty,I won't make any comment about Americans not comprehending British humour.

all the best

Jethro







Modified by Jethro at Wed, Mar 23, 2005, 14:27:30

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British "humor"
Re: Re: Not Randy Pratt, it's Randy Prouty and here he is -- Jethro Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Joe ®

03/23/2005, 14:36:19
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Well, golly, Jethro. I can't tell you how much we Yanks appreciate not being put down, but maybe you should explain the joke.  Was it in reference to the base player for the Fuzztones?  If so, I can't stop laughing.







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Noilly Prat
Re: British "humor" -- Joe Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/23/2005, 15:21:08
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Well gee Joe,I just lurve America. I mean it is such a great place where people are given names like Randy and they call toilets bathrooms and bathrooms restrooms or is it the other way around?

Y'all just sooooooo cute.

I don't know who the Fuzztones are, are they as good as Black Sabbath? (added; I just googled the fuzztones and saw Rudi Protrudi...)

In Great Britian calling someone a pratt means they are stupid. It is a light insult.
What do Americans call pratts?

Of course there was also humour connected to that wonderful refresher Noilly Prat.

stay kewel

Jethro





Related link: http://www.ardentspirits.com/Links/NoillyPrat.html
Modified by Jethro at Wed, Mar 23, 2005, 15:38:20

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Yeah, Randy Pratt was base player for the Fuzztones .. and a good one
Re: Noilly Prat -- Jethro Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Joe ®

03/23/2005, 17:37:40
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I thought perhaps you were referring to him in your stab at providing us with amusement.

Actually, Jethro, I am aware of the cute British uses for both "pratt" and "randy," and as quaint as that is, it was more the "humor' (or should I say "humour") part of that which caused me difficulty.

But I agree, carefully targeted amnesia is an essential part of Rawat cult membership, especially when one is asked to recall the harboring of pedophiles (excuse me "peadophiles") on the part of the perfect successful investor of our time.  This was essential for the former Initiator, community coordinator, and all around gadfly for the Lord of the Universe, Randall Prouty.

 






Modified by Joe at Wed, Mar 23, 2005, 17:38:45

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Joe, talking of amnesia
Re: Yeah, Randy Pratt was base player for the Fuzztones .. and a good one -- Joe Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/24/2005, 00:24:13
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In the early 90s (was still a premi) I was doing a psychotherapy course with a group of about 20 people, 3 or 4 of which were premies and there were a few aspirants there too.
The course ran every weekend over about 18 months.
In the lunch breaks, I sometimes used to talk to the aspirants about the exploits of Balyogeshwar and in particular I would tell the stories of his early days in India.
Anyway, when we returned to the course after a break of one month, one aspirant told me that she has met with m's initiator who had told her that all the Indian stuff I had told her about was untrue. It never happened. ( I took her too my home and showed her the film 'satguru has come').

Another intiator( whom I had lived in the same ashram with and knew well) told her that she never knew or heard of me.

I still didn't smell the coffee. I told myself that yhese people were severely in their minds and the greater than god, Prem Rawat, made them initiaors to keep them close etc etc etc.
(Oy the premie mindset!!!!!!!)

I still gave the mahapratt 6 more years of godship!!!!!!!!

Spring is busting out all over here and it is gorgeous

:>) Jethro the non-existant







Modified by Jethro at Thu, Mar 24, 2005, 00:27:49

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Hamzen, here is what was my most favourite quote
Re: You ex premies with all this speculation, tut tut Jethro -- hamzen Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jethro ®

03/22/2005, 23:11:25
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"To me the most ultimate experience in my life became Guru Maharaj Ji not even Knowledge,
and when it became Guru Maharaj Ji it was so beautiful because I could attach myself to that
experience, because Guru Maharaj Ji was in this world, Guru Maharaj Ji was there, and I remember
every experience of standing in front of Him and experiencing a state of Mindlessness, where
evn you can call upon the mind as loud as you want but it is not there. A stage of where future
does not matter, past doesn't matter and you're definitely not in the present. I think that
stage is called ecstasy an incredible bliss."

Guru Maharaj Ji
Hans Jayanti Festival, Orlando
6th Nobvember 1979(Tuesday-day)

Reproduced in Affinity publication. Issue No:54 February 1980







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What happened to post? moderators
Re: YOGIC FLYING -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/23/2005, 09:32:00
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Just curious, as I was going over posts, I noticed that I had given a response to one, that was entitled Prem can't sing but he can dance, etc. it was on the forum 8 yesterday, now its gone






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Re: What happened to post? moderators
Re: What happened to post? moderators -- Hussain Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Euro Mod ®

03/23/2005, 12:00:22
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Hi Hussain

I checked all the logs and I don't see any posts of yours being deleted over the last few days.  The last time any posts of yours were deleted was last Friday when you, in error, triple posted.  Then you asked for the duplicates to be deleted and I did.

The following link will show all the posts you have made on F8.  Are you sure that your post is not amongst that list?  This would be the first time on F8 we have encountered a missing post that could not be explained.

http://www.forum8.org/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/forum8?cmd=find&tK=^hussain$&hIz=365

Euro Mod







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Re: What happened to post? moderators
Re: Re: What happened to post? moderators -- Euro Mod Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/24/2005, 08:37:43
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Thanks
Ya'qub






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Re: Prem can't fly but he sure can dance ! He could market that too!
Re: Original message -- Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 14:29:01
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Thanks for sharing. Yes indeed, the Lard would look so cute and cool and hip if he could market, through EV, DVD's of his dancing... it could be a greatest hits of PREM DVD, exclusive offer for a donation of $59.99 or more.
The only way to pull off the yogic flying would be if he could find a double who is in good physical shape. It would just be too hard on his back, heart, and of yes, I forgot, a bad hangover with head pounding and upset stomach would make yogic flying (yogic flying, definition, hopping around on a mat)too much for even the lord of the universe. Yogic flying could also damage the cute little krishna outfit he wears. Anyway, let me know if you think of a way he could pull this gig off.






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Re: thanks for encouragement
Re: Original message -- Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Hussain ®

03/22/2005, 15:24:52
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With the right audiences and funding, we could make it look so good. The only problem is I get hired, they wouldn't want to pay me? I would have to give everything to M, even as a marketing director?






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