Tokyo, Japan, October 3, 1972 (And it is Divine, July 1973)

Well, Jim, all I can say is that it's damned good comfort that Prem Rawat has been making great inroads towards establishing world peace, such as by renting a hall at the Bangkok, Thailand, United Nations building, getting himself "invited" there by his cult and standing at the podium, speaking to his membership.  I'm sure that will have a long-standing effect on establishing peace on earth.

It does look vaguely like one of Saddam's palaces.  It has what looks like this kind of wall around it, and is essentially a compound with a checkpoint/gatehouse, some distance from the actual buildings.  And it is built in a Middle Eastern/Persian sort of style.

Not to mention the swimming pool, the doubled-decked garages, the meticulously landscaped (and irrigated) lawns and gardens.  God knows what it looks like on the inside.

I saw the place in person for the first time last May.  There are a number of particularly gaudy and obscenely overdone mansions in the hills of Malibu, of which Rawat's is only one.  Actually, a few of the others are uglier than Rawat's.

The 707 also had a Middle Eastern decor, and partly for that reason, there was a rumor going around that it was being built for some Sultan in the Middle East, or a member of the Saudi royal family.  I think they actually tried to fan that rumor to deflect that it was for Rawat, who, as Cynthia will tell you, was referred to not by his name, but as "the client" at DECA.

The Rawat cult is legally a church, so they don't have to disclose any information about how much money is raised, or where it goes, and even though many more reputable churches do it voluntarily, the Rawat cult (Elan Vital) does not.

The hypocrisy of Rawat blathering on about how what he offers isn't a religoin, compared with his taking advantage of the tax laws as a church is just one of the many that seems not to bother him in the least.

Also, (and you may have already read about this here and on EPO), "gifts" that are given to anyone do not have to be reported as income in the United States by the person who gets them.  But anybody who gives more than $10,000 to someone else in one year, has to pay a "gift tax" on it.  This is the penalty for trying to avoid inheritance taxes, which, if people just give "gifts" to their heirs, would happen.

I remember Elan Vital advised me to tell people that they could give $10,000 to each member of Rawat's family in one year and avoid the gift tax.  So, they could probably give like $60,000 to Rawat and not pay gift taxes on it, in any one year.  But most premies didn't have that kind of money, or even $10,000 to donate , and just gave their monthly contributions to both Elan Vital, and directly to Rawat, taking tax deductions for the EV donations, but not for the Rawat "donations."  They also donated cash in the darshan lines, which often raised Rawat hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hours, at each program in which the foot-kissin ritual occurred.  That isn't taxed either, nor was it disclosed to the premies, or anyone else.  I only know about it because I knew people who actually counted the money, and because some of the finance people for Rawat have become ex-premies.

So, if you have a few thousand people who give monthly contributions to Mr. Rawat as "gifts"  -- even relatively small ones, you can see that would add up pretty fast to have Rawat sitting pretty in residences, planes and yachts.

The other way he got money was through cult businesses, particularly the book buying business (Amtext), which I understand Rawat now personally owns, or so I am told.  Before, he was described as the "beneficial owner," meaning he just got all the profits.  Apparently, Rawat told the Amtext premie crowd that due to them, he was able to finance his obscene, Saddam-like" mansion in Malibu.

The one that was on that spot before, and the additional land, was just direcly bought by Divine Light Mission, according to Bob Mishler, and handed over to Rawat.  Then he tore down that mansion and built a much better one, apprently this time, technically off the books of DLM (not Elan Vital).

Unfortunately, much of that might well be technically "legal."

That's why the cult hates the ex-premies so much and is trying to attack them through character assassination, rather than trying to address any of the legitimate criticisms.

I can just say that over the years, quite a number of both premies and aspirants have said that EPO and the Forum were key in getting them to leave the cult.  It's a pretty powerful thing, because information is powerful.

Of course, you have to be ready to hear it, and many premies aren't.  They either just run in the other direction and deny it (claim it's all "false" and "lies") or they do something really, really irresponsible and childish, and say "they don't care" because they have a "nice experience" and that's all that matters.

But many people have left the cult with the help of EPO, and I think quite a few aspirants or "interested people" like yourself have also been helped.

This is because it's too much to think that the person you believed to be the perfect master, (in my case for 30 years) does in fact behave so badly. It was quite shocking to discover the facts on EPO, but also so enlightening. Information is power - it gives the person the ability to make an informed decision. No wonder EV wanted to shut it down - and thank goodness they'll never be able to do that!

The main reason why I could take it all on board, (because it was difficult), was because EPO comes across as genuine, honest and sincere. With EV you get the complete opposite. Lies, no respect and no answers. Wouldn't it be great if EV or M were to reply to the open letter on the EPO website? Unfortunately M's ego is way too inflated!!

The irony is, though, that when I first got a computer and could go on line, I went to the tprf website, looking for pictures from the 70's and of M in India as a child. I was surprised that there weren't any, so I tried the EV website. Same thing. I even emailed them asking why not, and if they planned to put any up - I think I even suggested that they did! I don't know why, but they didn't bother to reply. At this stage I was too scared to check out EPO as it is M's "agya" (command) to premies not to read EPO. A couple of months, and a programme later, I googled EPO. The rest is history!

Thank you EPO and F8! There must be others like me too - and I agree that it would be interesting to know how many, roughly.

Way back in the first couple of years of the Forum and EPO, I think premies were being contacted by Booth Dyess and David Coyne via telephone if they participated in the forum (if they used their own names, I guess), saying that Rawat didn't want premies "talking about knowledge on the internet."   I think this guy Brian, who later became the webmaster, was one person who was actually contacted and he wrote about that.

So, I had heard that Rawat was dissing the internet entirely, and that was before he had any of his own presence on the interenet.  I didn't realize that he had actually ordered premies not to "look" at EPO.  That just sounds paranoid and, well, like what a cult would do.

Frankly, that kind of "indirect agya" (something you didn't hear Rawat say himself), might actually encourage premies to look at it.  I think it would have done that to me if I was still a premie, because I probably wouldn't have believed that the EV honchos were really just passing on Rawat's agya, and I might want to see what all the fuss was about.

It's also so true what you say about the total lack of information on the TPRF and EV sites.  I think Rawat takes a big risk by being on the internet at all, of course I guess he really has no choice.

I guess ole Rawat, who has this aura of being so "with it" when it comes to technology, kind of missed the boat on thinking that the internet was a passing phase or something.  I guess he had to (while never admitting error), pretend that he is really now utilizing the internet to "spread this knowledge to every land."

I wonder how many premies actually avoided the internet during those years because their Lord was not into it.

And then Forum 8 helped me to understand in greater depth. That was a year and a half ago and it's been amazing and really helpful to read here. When I first read EPO I wanted to go into denial - just as many premies do. My natural reaction was to try and explain away all the facts and justify M.

Lots of exes have told me the same thing and the forum has been enormously helpful to sort everything out for me too.  I still learn things now, even though it's been so many years posting online for me.

But, it was Maharaji himself that drove me out with his own words out of his mouth - live via satellite. I just couldn't tolerate his arrogance anymore and ironically, it was his lack of gratitude to premies, for everything premies have done for and given to him that became increasingly disturbing.  Something snapped.  I no longer could rationalize how he could live the way he lives and continue to demand so much more by laying guilt on the people who gave him all of it to begin with, with so much love.  That became intolerable to me. 

He was complaining about premies again in a 1999 satellite feed, and he got more nasty than I'd ever heard him be at a program, telling us about what a bunch of ingrates we all were -- again!  It hit me like a ton of bricks:  This is a cult. He really doesn't care about me one bit.  I was so tired of rationalizing everything about and for him.

So, it was a relief to find EPO even though it felt like sacrilege to read it.  It was deliciously forbidden reading though and I recommend that any premie do it with abandon!   

Anna, I think it's also ironic that those old pictures you were looking for of Maharaji on the official websites were possibly the same one's that Elan Vital tried to have removed off of EPO.

Be well,

Cynthia

I miss your posts. I hope you fine the time to post more often in the future. I enjoy reading your words and I think your a very warm and thoughtful person. Don't be a stranger OK?

The 707 also had a Middle Eastern decor, and partly for that reason, there was a rumor going around that it was being built for some Sultan in the Middle East, or a member of the Saudi royal family.  I think they actually tried to fan that rumor to deflect that it was for Rawat, who, as Cynthia will tell you, was referred to not by his name, but as "the client" at DECA.

I do remember hearing about the "Middle Eastern decor theme" but we kind of chuckled about it because how it worked was that, whatever Maharaji wanted, Maharaji got.  So, if his taste corresponds to that type of decor, well, I think that it's just the way it turns out, because there wasn't a decor theme, everthing was based on his personal design requests -- and I mean always.  No one questioned his desires; we fulfilled his desires, personally, all of the time and without exception. Talk about stress on the (slave-without-any-pay) job!  lol.

The B707 interior was light-beige, medium-beige, dark-beige, and many off-white tones, offset by dark ebony, teak, and other exotic hardwoods that were laminated onto the aircraft components and trim on the interior of the aircraft.  That's where the toxic chemicals came in that caused so many ashram premies to become so sick, because there wasn't any safety equipment, and because DECA was not a legitimate company other than being a registered corporation in the state of Florida. It was a total front.  There was no workers' compensation insurance or OSHA regulations to follow -- the Lord of the Universe is automatically exempt from any laws.  I'm not kidding.

Painters, laminators, metal plate-shop workers, woodworkers, seamstresses and others -- all the people who worked on the interior and exteior of the B707 aircraft, were in constant long, daily contact with those chemicals, including cyanide, laminates, glues, and other adhesives, and the fumes that hung in the work area of that large warehouse complex.  They only had partical masks that I know of.  I never saw anyone using respirators and the chemicals were constantly floating around in that place. I remember being curious and wanting to see how the metal plate-shop workers plated metal (one thing they did was the gold-plated toilet)  and they always told me to get out of there because it wasn't safe to breath the air.  Cyanide.

I was thinking about this yesterday and it's pretty amazing that during all those (more than once per) daily visits to DECA that Maharaji made with his entourage, that often include his wife, Marolyn and their very young kids, that Marolyn never had a say in the design of that B707. Maybe she did in private but not around us.  She just spaced around the complex following him around, nodding her head in agreement about everything.  Or she stayed in the very nice playroom had been set up for their kids.  She never said much at all.  Everything was deferred to Maharaji.

I didn't have a real high up or "honcho" position at DECA, but one of the things I was given as a job (service) was to make sure that every premie who worked there never said his name on the premises during working hours.  That's what Jim Hession told me to do andhe was the project manager.  Maharaji was always to be referred to as "The Client," and that was strictly enforced.  There was a lot at stake there and there's no way anyone wanted Prem Rawat connected to those corporations.  It was as if he didn't even exist there, but the fact is, the entire operation revolved around him.

Sometimes it sounds as if it's a story out of a mystery novel, but truth is stranger than fiction.

Joe, I'm positive we must have met at some point.  You got to Miami Beach in May of 1979 and me in April?  We both lived at the Broadripple?  We must have at least spoken to each other at some point!

Cynth

I think I've talked about this in pieces, so here's the lurid, sensational, sad and ironic history as I recall it.  I'm sure I did meet you, and I actually have an image of someone I think might be you, but there were so many people in Miami at that time.

In 1979, I was asked by Dennis Marciniak (then President of EV) to quit my job in Chicago and transfer from the ashram there to Miami, to be part of IHQ of EV.  I had been in Chicago almost 3 years at the time, and had a good job with a law firm downtown.  I was ashram housefather, but also having a hard time as it was Rawat's Dark, Catholic, Devotional Period as you know.  Since I was not a gopi, and had a hard time relating to Rawat the person, was kind of repulsed by his form and his incoherent speech, I had a hard time listening to all the satsang about "longing for" and "loving the feet of" Rawat.

When I got to Miami I lived at the Broadripple.  My "service" was supposed to be to help develop cult businesses, but everything got sucked into the plane project at that time, so I spent most of my time trying to find people to donate money to the project, help the communites figure out how to raise money for it (they were lied to and told it was for a "world tour" but they were busily doing bake sales and car washes), and trying to find people (ie "bodies") to come work at the plane project and a couple of the other businesses that were beginning in Miami. (Tofu factory, security business, construction company, etc.).  EV was also  just moving to Miami from Denver.  I also looked for a building to house EV and I actually found the Alton Road office where it ended up.  It was an old A&P Supermarket building that had later been a savings and loan (one that probably went under).  So it had this kind of banking lobby and then offices in the back.

I remember spending time at what became DECA, and this was before they were in the big complex in Hialeah.  I dealt a lot with Michael Black, Randy Berringer, Hession and others.

Anyhow, EV was in crisis mode because the were flat broke.  All the money was going to the plane and to support Rawat's lavish lifestyle.  For example, there now had to be a palacial "residence" in Miami for Rawat and his brood, as well as for the sychophantic and clueless, and almost completely out of touch with reality,  Raja Ji and Claudia.  Took huge megabucks.  Plus, many of the ashram premies who were making money in the provinces were sent to Miami to work as slaves, and were no longer bringing in dough, and had to be fed.  So not as much money was coming in either.

So, after being at the Broadripple for a few months, and doing my "service" such as it was, IHQ made some cutbacks to save money, and I got sent to Washington DC to be the community coordinator.  I liked being in DC, and the people there, SO much more than Miami.  I had a relatively good time there.

Anyhow, at some point, Jim Hession flew up to DC to arrange for Rawat to fly back into the US from Europe with some private jet they had rented, and we spent time going to Dulles Airport to find out all the landing arrangements.  Hession looked like he was completely fried, probably hadn't slept in months, and I remember he slept in the car as I drove him around.  Anyhow, we also arranged to get thousands in cash from some premies, to have it available so Rawat could be properly treated to the luxuries he was used to, should he have to sustain the difficult hardship of having to stay overnight in the DC area, in the most luxurious hotel suite available.

Turned out that Rawat was able to fly directly back to Miami, so none of that came to pass.  Anyhow, Hession was "impressed" with me and asked Marciniak if I could go to DECA.  I remember when Dennis called me, I DID NOT WANT TO GO, but of course, I was an ashram premie, and I was to do what I was told.  I also want to say that Dennis was a helluva nice guy, very moral and ethical from what I ever saw, and he was very nice about all this, but at the time Rawat was criticizing EV and promoting DECA, and so Dennis really had no choice. 

So, I arrived in Miami a few weeks later, and was assigned to sleep on the floor of a room with FOUR other prmies in the particularly scummy "Algiers" Hotel.  What a pit.  I slept on the floor for a few months.  Not even a foam mat, just the carpeted (dirty) floor. At some point I moved back to the Broadripple where I actually slept in a bed..

Anyhow, I was assigned to the "legal department" which then became "finance/legal" at one point. It seemed to me that Hession and a few of the other honchos spent at least half their dime doing organizational charts, changing boxes, names, and Hession was absolutely possessive of those charts.  They were like holy scripture to him.  It did not appear that a whole lot was actually happening, but there seemed to be premies everywhere running around doing...whatever it was.

I worked with this nice, but completely-out-of-his-league hippie lawyer who got sent there from Boulder (I think he did landlord tenant law or something there), and with Linda Gross (who was then an attorney for the "office of Guru Maharaj Ji" and now President of EV)  in doing a lot of the corporate law arrangements  for DECA, which was at first "IMMCO" and then became "DECA" and the plane was owned by a bunch of shell corporations, etc., etc.  Linda did most of the corporate minute stuff.  Linda was also a really new lawyer, and I think a somewhat new premie.

I and the hippie lawyer used to also do aviation law research and we used to go to the University of Miami Law Library for that. 

I was also personally assigned the job of finding out what licenses and permits DECA needed to operate legally, since it had NONE.  I remember it was hard to do the work, because often the phones didn't work, you had to scrounge to get a car to go to City Hall (the cars seemed to be used for almost nothing than to get people to the chiropractor), etc.  It was nuts, completely inefficient, and would not in any way have existed if they had to pay wages or expenses.

So, I spent a lot of time on the phone, and at various govt. offices in Dade County.  I reported dutifully to Hession, that DECA was violating every law in the book, and that operating with, for example, no workers comp insurance would get us shut down in a second if the state ever found out.  We also lacked all the proper permits to do the kind of work being done, OSHA reporting, etc.

Workers comp. insurance (or proof of it) was required to get almost any permit.  And workers comp. insurance required an employer ID number, and the premium is based on payroll, and well, DECA didn't have any, nor was it withholding income taxes, paying social security, you name it, DECA was NOT doing it.  I reported all these problems, all of which would have been expensive to deal with, and DECA was just scratching by with big influxes of cash from Elan Vital's fundraising (partly coordinated by me in my earlier EV incarnation.)

Plus, if Florida found out that all these people were ostensibly working as "volunteers"  they would have investigated, and even in Florida, slavery is illegal, and even "volunteers" require workers comp insurance, etc.  The problems were endless, and we were trying to play catch up, and all we could really do is just try to raise more money to keep the lights on, and try to give the Lord what he wanted.  Obviously, Rawat did not bother his big head with any dangers his premies might be encountering.

So, a while later, Hession "fired" me (he didn't say "fire," he was saying that I didn't know how to "serve Guru Maharaj Ji" and how I was more interested in serving the other premies than Maharaji and that I was better off in "a community.")

I don't know if you recall, but Rawat was at that time saying that the premies at DECA were better than other premies, that they really understood service, or something.  This was repeated over and over, and really made me kind of ill.  So, many of the premies at DECA felt better or special, or privileged, and I think this was really internatlized.  So, being fired from there was a real put down, but I was secretly glad to get out of there, to tell you the truth.  It was so nuts, and I saw so many premies being abused in the way they were expected to work and the demands put on them.

So, by the end of 1979 or early 1980, sometime after the 1979 Kissimee swamp festival, they made me the community coordinator in Miami, replacing Booth Dyess, who could not wait to get out of that completely thankless job.  I remember Booth didn't even meet with me for any kind of transition.  He just split and went to work for Joe Anctil and his premie travel agency "AITTA," and the next time I saw booth he was delivering Joe Anctil's dry cleaning.

I did have two wonderful people on the staff, who became good friends.  Two wonderful people, Nancy Bloom and Eric Bergland.  They both were really funny and could make me laugh.  Those people really helped in an otherwise pretty awful situation, which I won't go into.

 I still went to lots of the satsang at DECA, when Rawat came there, and for other "events," but I actually began to kind of despise DECA, and way it kind of bulldozed over everything, and looked down on the community premies. 

As CC my office was in the IHQ building on Alton Road, and so I was kind of still in the belly of the beast.  That's where I saw, all the illegal emergency fundraising, when people came back to the office with briefcases full of cash (hundreds of thousands on a couple of occasions) for the plane project, and we depositied it no more than $10,000 at a time to avoid reporting under the treasury rules.

And I still lived in either the Broadripple or the "Surfside" hotel with all the DECA people, until some time later I found ashrams in Coral Gables for the official "Miami ashram."

Near the end of 1980, I got sent to San Francisco, and I was kind of on my way out of the cult by then, although it took a couple more years.  At Rawat's birthday party celebration in December, 1980, (or was it Holi in 1981? it was definitely at the Miami Airport) I was given a tour of the plane, which was almost completed at that point.  That's when I saw the gold toilet, the computerized shower, the vaguely Middle Eastern motif, and all the rest.

Thanks Joe.  I think that should be on EPO.  There isn't enough about DECA on EPO, and I'm almost finished with mine.  It's close to a final draft, but (you know me) it would never fit in one post!  It has been hard for me to write so I wasn't able to do it all at once and I dropped it for a long time.  That belongs on EPO too.

The whole DECA era is key to how Rawat got premies to do exactly what he wanted, using illegal means, to enslave us even physically --all for his personal gain.  It was so unbelievably sick.

You mentioned David Coyne in anther post in this thread.  He used to drop by at DECA but I was always vague about what he did.  I know his famliy had money and he definitely was a hanger-on PAM type, but he also was an ashram premie living at the Broadripple.  What did David ever do, if anything?  I could never get a straight answer out of the guy and he NEVER did a thing when he hung out at the little IMMCO warehouse.  And I mean nothing.

But, back to your DECA story.  Was it May of 79 that you first went down to Miami or was it later, because if you came to the IMMCO/DECA warehouse after April, 1979, we had to have met?  It was pretty tiny. And my desk was two up from Randy's near the front door.

So, I arrived in Miami a few weeks later, and was assigned to sleep on the floor of a room with FOUR other prmies in the particularly scummy "Algiers" Hotel.  What a pit.  I slept on the floor for a few months.  Not even a foam mat, just the carpeted (dirty) floor. At some point I moved back to the Broadripple where I actually slept in a bed..

There was a lot of shuffling around all of the time.  Once I was out of DECA, but still around DLM (it was still DLM then, not EV yet, right?) I got moved a lot to those scummy cockroach, mold-infested Miami Beach hotels.  Even the cleaner ones stunk.  I did a little stint at the Algiers, too.  They tended to move us around a lot when Initiators came to town so the initiators could stay at the Broadripple, I think.  I moved more times in my life than I care to remember during the time I was an ashram premie.  No wonder I'm such a home-body now! 

I was never told the words "your fired" either, but I was just told that I was out because I was so sick.  It devastated me because I was one of the first to become sick from total exhaustion and I really felt that I was a total failure to Maharaji and every other premie was a better devotee than me.  Of course that was really reinforced when I started processing divorces at DLM so premies (fresh bodies) could move into the ashram and work on the project for no pay. It took me a long time to recover just from feeling like a failure, not to mention getting so run-down.

I still went to lots of the satsang at DECA, when Rawat came there, and for other "events," but I actually began to kind of despise DECA, and way it kind of bulldozed over everything, and looked down on the community premies. 

It's interesting you mentioned that Maharaji told the DECA premies they were better premies. I know he did.  He propped us up to use us.  But, we did get pretty inflated spiritual egos from it too, and I'm sure it showed.  Think about it.  The center of the Lord of the Universe was the DECA complex and we worked there. He gave us all of his attention, on purpose, to get his needs met.   I completely lost touch with the community premies and I was so out of it, I rarely went to satsang in Miami.  I was pumb too tired.  We did think we were "extra special" though, some more than others, too.  I remember there were a bunch of DECA folks that liked going to Miami for satsang and avoided satsang at the Complex.

Now, Joe, the extreme irony your being sent to SF is that when I was transferred to Gainesville, after DECA and my DLM stint, they came so close to sending me to San Francisco.  They told me it was either Florida or California. Damn it. I really wish they had sent me to SF, because Gainesville was such a boring, boring town!  Oh well, just rambling now...

Cynth 

You mentioned David Coyne in anther post in this thread.  He used to drop by at DECA but I was always vague about what he did.  I know his famliy had money and he definitely was a hanger-on PAM type, but he also was an ashram premie living at the Broadripple.  What did David ever do, if anything?  I could never get a straight answer out of the guy and he NEVER did a thing when he hung out at the little IMMCO warehouse.  And I mean nothing.

The short answer is I don't know, but I always had the same question.  It always seemed that people like him, and Randy Prouty, and _____ Knight (what was his first name, this really elitist initiator?), Ron Coletta, John Hampton and a few others, were always vying for the position as Rawat's "friend" or something.  Clearly, David got to where he was because of his money, let's face it.  I remember he bought Rawat a Rolls Royce in the early 70s.  I assume that got the Lord's attention as expensive cars were always Rawat's thing.

But, back to your DECA story.  Was it May of 79 that you first went down to Miami or was it later, because if you came to the IMMCO/DECA warehouse after April, 1979, we had to have met?  It was pretty tiny. And my desk was two up from Randy's near the front door.

Well then, we did meet because my first intro to the plane was the IMMCO warehouse, getting a tour from Michael Black and I remember Randy Berringer up in front, well, because she was "up in front" (sexist I know, but I can't help it, and I'm gay so it can't really be sexist ), and I remember at the time they were doing a "mock up" of the plane for Rawat to play with, or something.  It was all in cardboard.  Useless, actually, but Rawat always was asking for stuff like that.

I can't recall the exact dates, because I was contacted by Dennis first, earlier in 1979 and told to quit my job and get ready to come to Miami (I think he wanted to get IHQ to Miami first), and then after Holi Festival, I met with everyone, and that might be when I first came to the IMMCO warehouse.  I was still believing the cult lie that we were all fundraising for a "world tour."  It was at Holi that I was told about what was really going on with the plane and all.  Of course, I felt privileged and special to have this "secret" information, which I was told to tell no one about, and I didn't.  I think I went back to Chicago briefly and returned right away, so it might have actually been April that I got there.

Actually, you mentioned "Sam" the woman from Chicago who was the interior designer doing furniture design for Prem and Raja Ji.  Since I was going to Miami, I was actually asked to drive a U-Haul with her furniture and belongings for her and her kid, since they were now living in Miami, doing that "service."  It was also a way to save money.

I think she was living with Janet Maggio (I will say nothing of her appearance lest you give me the "police" label again ) , who was also from Chicago, and was sort of the Hedda Hopper, or Rhona Barrett of the cult.  She always knew all the gossip on everyone and everything, and she worked for Joe Anctil, so that sort of fit.  I thought it was interesting because when I was in Chicago, Janet rarely spoke to me, preferring to cultivate friendships with people better connected in the cult.  When I got sent to Miami, and possibly had connections, Janet actually sought me out.

Actually, it was Janet who informed me, at the Kissimee swamp festival, that I had, in fact, been selected to be CC in Miami.  She knew well before I did, that's how "connected" Janet was.  (Of course, Janet had been a witch before she received knowledge, so maybe she had special powers.)

There was a lot of shuffling around all of the time.  Once I was out of DECA, but still around DLM (it was still DLM then, not EV yet, right?) I got moved a lot to those scummy cockroach, mold-infested Miami Beach hotels.

Yes, the FAAMM, (the Florida Association for the Advancement of Mold and Mildew) requires that all hotels more than 10 years old be properly mold infested, especially in carpets, drapes and mattresses.  I can testify that the DLM/EV hotels met all the requirements.

Actually the Surfside, which arrived somewhat late on the scene, was the nicest hotel I lived in, although it was pretty basic.  It had nice views and no EV/DECA honchos strutting around.  It was just the lowly folks who worked as carpenters at DECA and us lowly community people.  I rather enjoyed that place.  I remember during the winter, it actually got cold in Miami Beach, and I opened my window and let the cold air blow in from the ocean, longing for more temperate climates.

BTW -- did you recall that the Hare Krishnas lived in the hotel next door?  They actually came by a couple of times to do "outreach" as we ate breakfast.  Yes, that part of Collins Avenue, I think due to the delapidated hotels and cheap housing, could easily have been called "Cult Street."  But I think the Rawat cult had the most hotels, at least about 4 at any one time as I recall.

I was never told the words "your fired" either, but I was just told that I was out because I was so sick.  It devastated me because I was one of the first to become sick from total exhaustion and I really felt that I was a total failure to Maharaji and every other premie was a better devotee than me. 

God, I can relate.  The truth is, we were totally expendable, just commodities to serve the Lord and if you wore out, they threw you away and somebody else was in line to do the service they thought would be so blissful.  It was totally dehumanizing and it happened to lots of people.  Frankly, I think one of the reasons I was "fired" wasn't only that I was the bearer of bad news and was too concerned about the safety of the premies and not enough about serving Rawat damn the cost, but also because I refused to act like a chicken with my head cut off in doing "service."  There was this vibe that if you didn't work around the clock and crash out on the floor at DECA, you really weren't doing "service" or even understanding what "service" was.   You just weren't a real devotee.

I remember one time the fanatic David Smith told me (a couple years later), that I had failed to properly "take up the sword of service." (Exact quote.  I remember I told my friend Richie Azzarone what Smith had said, and he laughed so hard he acutally had tears running down his face and choked on something.  Thanks to Richie, for stopping my feelings of guilt cold.)

I saw a lot of energy at DECA accomplishing nothing.   A lot of it was meaningless busy work with no management whatsoever.  So, you took a step back, you tended to not get caught up in the whirlwind, and that's partly what happened to me.  I can't tell you how many times at DECA that I delayed in doing something I was told, because I knew that by the next day, it would be either useless, or counterproductive to have done it.  Things changed daily, there was no plan.  This is partly because Rawat was micromanaging, changing everything and asking for reallly stupid stuff, unrelated to the plane, just because he could, and he would not be questioned.  He was always asking for reports, for example, that made no sense whatsoever.

But the fact is, a cult that could make you feel guilty for being a human being is completely destructive, and that's the kind of cult we were in.  So, I can really feel for what you went through and even just thinking back on it, it makes me angry that people were treated like that.

We did think we were "extra special" though, some more than others, too.  I remember there were a bunch of DECA folks that liked going to Miami for satsang and avoided satsang at the Complex.

I actually tried to really liven up the satsang programs in Miami to get more of the "special" premies to attend.  If Joan Apter, or Jagdeo, or Charanand were there, then more would show up.  But Miami was such a huge premie community, that we regularly had 800-1000 premies show up for nightly satsang, in our decrepit, fire trap, former Baptist Church on Biscayne Boulevard.  But I don't think everyone at DECA was feeling superior to the other premies.  Some people really were kind of humble -- I guess those were the saints.

Actually, I think some premies who look back on the dehumanization that was DECA and aren't appalled, do it from the standpoint of still thinking they were some kind of special devotee for having been there, and how lucky they were and, again, it was for Rawat and therefore exempt from the values you would impose on any other situation you would look at..   Of course the cult itself would really like to erase DECA from the history books.  That's why you, Cynthia, are one of their enemies.  Thorns in the side come to mind, and you do a very good job of it.

I have to say, getting sent to San Francisco, was one of the good things, in the long run, that happened in the cult.  Even after all these years, I do love it here.  But even at the time, I wasn't so much thinking about how great it would be to go to San Francisco, I wanted to leave Miami because I was terrified that if I stayed there, I would leave the cult.  I felt that if I got sent away from the madness there, away from the misery I saw so many premies going through, I could once again be a devotee.  In the end, that didn't work.

Hi Anth,

What you said is true and I think that it's the largest myth that premies have about Maharaji and themselves.  That's how it was for me:  "Maharaji loves me the most in the world (the universe, actually) and I love him the most in the world."  I thought he loved me more than anyone else did and could, and that nobody could love me more, or care about me more than Maharaji.  What a trap.

I also think it's the biggest hurdle to jump in order to get out of that cult because by placing all of one's ('Focus on the Form'...lalala) personal and spiritual love on him, it can feel as if one is losing everything if that belief is questioned. That's the next myth. But, that was by far the most painful thing for me to come to terms with, after so many years (20!) of loving Maharaji.  My love was real and sincere and trustworthy, he never loved me at all. 

It is dehumanizating for Maharaji to allow that myth to perpetuate in anyone's mind and heart, because the fact is that it is a myth.  Down below Joe and I were talking about the song, "Teach Me Devotion," and I tried to remember all of the lyrics, but while I was typing them just I burst into tears, which really surprised me.  It didn't last long, but remembeing the song brought back to me how much of myself I had sacrificed to him.  Made me so glad I was typing the song here and not singing it in a hall to his face!

It's a lot of love to lose, and crying for the loss helps and I recommend it.

Cynthia

Teach Me Devotion

If you want to wander and roam, go on, go on

You know Lexy, if it weren't for all those "awful honchos" you write about with so much distain and sarcasm, a lot of what's on EPO would not be there.  "Honchos" were brainwashed premies too.  Regular people who got caught up in the same cult as you.

I'm getting really tired of your excessive sarcasm.  And please don't pull out your "I'm a recent ex-premie" card about this.  Everybody who ever posted on this forum started out as a "recent ex."

!

Cynthia 

I think what Lexy was saying was that when Lexy was a premie she convinced hereself that all the problems were to the awful honchos, but then left when she realized that it all really came from Rawat.

So, I don't think she would (anymore) blame the "awful honchos."

Having said that, I do think that no matter committed a premie somebody was, they still bear responsibility for what they did to others, and although being in a cult is a mitigating factor, it doesn't absolve responsibility. 

I was just saying that I got something entirely different from what was written than you did and I thought there was a legitimate point being made; I feel no need to defend Lexy and and I actually had no idea what Lexy's gender is/was.

I also had no idea Lexy was being sarcastic to you, but then I don't read all the posts.

All of this is, obviously, just my opinion.

Please stop trying to make me out as such a terrible person Cynthia , because I don't deserve it. I could pick on anybody's posts here if I really wanted to , and learn something about their vulnerabilities and then constantly undermine them...but what purpose would it serve ?...except perhaps to drive them away.

If you want me to leave this forum you certainly know how to go about it.

Re: the passive /aggression link you connected that post way down the threads to.....

I did look at it quickly ( realising that if one tries hard enough one can always find something on the Internet to apparently justify one's point of view ). I realised that , on the whole , I have spoken up openly about any grievances , and when I have dared do this the response has been that the whole thread was promptly deleted or I got a tongue lashing from you and occasionally criticism from some predictable " others" ( oh...and sometimes "men" leapt to my defence     ).....It seems to me that I'm in a " damned if you do/ damned if you don't " situation.

Gotta go.

Lexy,

Now you're blowing this conversation well out of proporation. 

Please stop trying to make me out as such a terrible person Cynthia , because I don't deserve it. I could pick on anybody's posts here if I really wanted to , and learn something about their vulnerabilities and then constantly undermine them...but what purpose would it serve ?...except perhaps to drive them away.

I'm not doing that and I don't think that. When did I ever say you're a terrible person?? Please don't put words in my mouth or thoughts into my head, Lexy.  To be fair, you don't know what I think or feel anymore than I know what you think and feel.  I admitted that I misread your post to Anth in this thread.  What more do you want from me?  Please put into perspective that this is just a online discussion forum. 

I told you that I think that you're overly sarcastic and then I explained why.  I'm just one person, and that's the extent of it. One person's opinion. What I think, by all means does not make you a "bad or terrible person."  That's impossible.  I don't know who taught you to think that way, but, I suspect..maybe Maharaji??  That might be something for you to explore on this forum if you're interested, or not.  I'm also absolutely not trying to "drive you away."  That's couldn't be further from the truth Lexy. You're not being fair at all to me when you say that and now you're implying that you've somehow become my victim.  That's definitely out of proportion.  This a discussion forum Lexy, nothing more.   

Words are the only things people have to go on around here.  If it's my problem that I don't read your posts correctly, well I want to clear that up, but if you don't want to clear that up with me, that's fine too.  It's not necessary for us to interact on this forum, and in fact, on past forums, many people who didn't get along for whatever reasons, managed to both post on the same forum without problems.

I did look at it quickly ( realising that if one tries hard enough one can always find something on the Internet to apparently justify one's point of view ). I realised that , on the whole , I have spoken up openly about any grievances , and when I have dared do this the response has been that the whole thread was promptly deleted or I got a tongue lashing from you and occasionally criticism from some predictable " others" ( oh...and sometimes "men" leapt to my defence     ).....It seems to me that I'm in a " damned if you do/ damned if you don't " situation

I'm not really sure about your statement "damned if you do/damned if you don't" because you haven't been posting on this forum very long and lately you haven't been posting hardly at all.  Lexy, you can't deny that a few weeks ago I took a lot of time to PM with you to explain how this forum works, and what's reasonable for someone relatively new like you, to expect from posting on an internet forum, such as this, as a recent ex.  I also took a lot of time to explain that I think it's important for a recent ex-premie, such as yourself, to try to learn how to express clearly what your needs are.  Why?  So that you can get your needs met.  I didn't do that to hurt you, Lexy.  I did it to help you.  When I wrote all of those things to you I had all of your best interests in heart and mind.  

I took a lot of time for me to do all that and now you're talking as if I'm performing a full frontal attack on you, based on one short, and albeit, harsh post to you here and a post below.  One comment about my perception of you doesn't constitute me wanting you to never post on this forum, and it doesn't mean anything but the words I wrote, either.  What I find ironic is that below you wrote about wanting no censorship on this forum, and that you don't want this to be a "showcase forum," but when I take your cue on that and say what I think and feel, you suddenly want me to shut up, because somehow I'm attacking you and driving you out.

Now that really isn't fair. 

Cynthia

You are a guest on this forum, Andries. 

I don't "mischaracterize" your opinions, and there are a lot of other folks here who have said the same things to you as I, about your opinions about cults, particularly about your consistent support of cult apologists.  When I tell you something, I mean it and that's called expressing my opinion.

And I most certainly DO FIND FAULT in your posting here for the purpose of information gathering about ex-premies for Wikpedia.  For one thing, you've never asked anyone's permission to do that, and yes, I find it intrusive.  So, I don't apologize for what I think about that, and I don't see my opinion about it changing in the near future.  That falls under the "motives' category of your post.

The conversation going on here is between Lexy and myself, not you.  You're being much too familiar with me, when in fact, you offer next to nothing about yourself here.  Back off please.

I didn't say I wanted to discuss the cult apologists with you, I was pointing out why I voice my opinions to you, about your use of cult apologists.  I definitely don't want to discuss Wikipedia with you because it's really off topic and it's already taken up way too much space on this forum, for far too long. 

Yep, you got that right.  It was my inability to not see the dehumanization that caused me most of the problems and made it hard for me to surrender.  The cult actually started out with some humanitarian goals, but those were subsumed and extinguished as Rawat's megalomania consumed it all. 

By 1977 or so, coming to full flower by 1979, Rawat was basically telling us to feel guilty for having any human values other than serving him.  That's how bad it got.

I have not seen Vera Drake yet, but my secretary loved it and highly recommends it.  As soon as it is available on Netflix, which it isn't just yet.

I went to see a really great film called "The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill" which I loved.  It's about this flock of parrots that live in San Franciso, and this incredible guy who got to know them.  Great film, apparently being released nationwide.

Joe, who, despite Netflix,  still tries to support his local video store, but never, ever Blockbuster.

And how are you doing.  Still in Cornwall?

Thanks much, Gallery. 

But while you're at it, what do you think of adding that other quote Hilltop posted a week or so ago, the one where Rawat talks about Knowledge giving one super powers which, however, he could and would take away instantly if one wasn't devoted enough to him?

Here it is again:

There was one mahatma and he had Guru Maharaj Ji's Knowledge.  And this mahatma meditated and meditated and meditated, and I guess finally took control of what he took control of.  And so he was able to lift water and bring it to his lips to drink it just by looking at it, and perform this and perform that.  He used to live in Prem Nagar.  (For whoever has been to Prem Nagar, at that time the big building wasn't there.  There was only the little building with the arches and the little kitchen-type set-up.)  And Guru Maharaj Ji came and everybody came and did pranam. Except for this one. 

And it was like, "Come on man, what are you guys doing?  Look at me.  I have realized it!"  Just like that, mind comes.  "Yeah, you've got it  man.  You've got it."  I mean, yes, he had been revealed the Knowledge.  He had brought his realization to such an incredible level to be able to control the elements of nature.  He could have, at that point, just split. And actually he did.  His mind segregated him from being a devotee of Guru Maharaj Ji. 

Now remember.  He still had Knowledge.  He was still at the ashram.  And yet when Guru Maharaj Ji came, he didn't do pranam.  He didn't get up and do pranam.  So Guru Maharaj Ji took one look at him and said, "What are you doing?  What's up?"  Guru Maharaj Ji I guess had heard the story and Guru Maharaj Ji said, "Listen, that's my Knowledge through which you think you have attained so much.  And when you can't surrender to me, 'ciao'  That's it, kiddo.  Finished."

And Guru Maharaj Ji walked away.  And this guy sat there and tried to make that water come up to him and nothing happened!  He tried to perform all his miracles and nothing happened.  And that's the difference right there.

The attributionPrem Rawat's talk at Holi, Miami, 4/8/79 From the Divine Times May/June 1979 Volume 8, Number 3, Page 16.

 

Not that there was any question about that.

Thanks Jim, for finding that, and thanks Gallery for preserving it, and thanks to Hilltop, the official archivist of the Forum!

I suppose it is this kind of material that the cult failed to completely destroy that has made Elan Vital no longer deny that Rawat claimed to be God, like they did a couple of years ago.  Now, they just ignore the issue entirely.

Maybe EV will make more racist statements about how "God" is just a term that "Hindus" don't really understand, and that they call everybody that.

The only one who can settle the governments down is the Perfect Master, the incarnation of God Himself, who comes to Earth to save mankind. 

Where are those premies when you need them?  I'd love to see them wriggle out of this one.

But here's another bit of fruitcake cosmology.  Don't know what to make of it, really.  On the one hand, it seems kind of like a joke.  But please take a moment, think about it and tell me where was a premie to draw the line?  What part -- if anything's -- meant to be fantastic, hyperbolic or figurative and what part literal.  Beats me:

In the same way, we can go lower and lower and lower and lower and lower and lower consciousness and get these freaky feelings.  But get out of them, and those things aren't there at all.  Because the world is made up of two things, good and bad.  You know what I mean by bad: spirits, devils, Draculas, Frankensteins, werewolves, and so on.  But beyond that is goodness, and once we come into goodness, what can a Dracula do?  He wouldn't come there at all, just like it's impossible for a Dracula to walk at daytime.

Jim

Where is this one from again?  Sorry, I must be confused!  Is this from the Japan satsang or the Boston interview?  This definitely proves something.

In the same way, we can go lower and lower and lower and lower and lower and lower consciousness and get these freaky feelings.  But get out of them, and those things aren't there at all.  Because the world is made up of two things, good and bad.  You know what I mean by bad: spirits, devils, Draculas, Frankensteins, werewolves, and so on.  But beyond that is goodness, and once we come into goodness, what can a Dracula do?  He wouldn't come there at all, just like it's impossible for a Dracula to walk at daytime.

By the way, Jim, in this photo, the third guy in from the left is Dr. J. Gordon Melton, NRM Scholar, who plays Dracula on his time off and is/was? the President of the Transylvania Society of Dracula - American Chapter.  His buddy, Massimo Intovingne, the founder and head man at CESNUR, is another Dracula/Vampire guy, but must not have been able to make it.  Is Dracula a religion and am I being intolerant?