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Which part do you see as strange?
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Thanks Sam. That is very apt:When a pickpocket meets a saint all he sees are his pockets. I presume that by the pickpocket you mean Maharaji, who we allowed to pick our pockets (and spirit) clean. I do agree with you that many people who post here are saints, or near saints, in that they have overcome enormous obstacles placed by the pickpocket's cult, to think for themselves, deconstruct their past, and become sane and integrated again. But I still think it very generous of you to refer to us as a group as 'saints'. But certainly you are correct that the pickpocket is focused on our pockets. He makes me want to sing. He makes (some of) you want to cuss. If the pickpocket wants to make you sing, then that is your perogative. Of course, it is just possible you mean your little quote the other way round from how I have interpreted it, but generally the level of intelligence and integrity of posters here is quite high, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant it as I have interpreted it. Would you like to introduce yourself? If you have posted here before, then I must have missed it. We have several names for Maharaji/Rawat here, but 'pickpocket' is a new one - I like it! -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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Ho Ho. The old switcheroo.
Let's see you try it with this quote then...
It's strange, isn't it. You stand in the middle of a library and go
'Aaaaaagghhh!!' and everyone just stares at you. But you do the same
thing on an aeroplane, and everyone joins in.
-- Tommy Cooper
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Too subtle for me, Sam. You'll have to spell it out. I cannot see the relevance to Tommy Cooper going Aaaaaagh with anything to do with this Forum. But I am sure you have a witty and devastating riposte, but I am afraid I don't see it. My brain must have turned to rotting vegetables.I notice you have not introduced yourself, like I invited you to. For instance, you are clearly a practising premie - when did you get Knowledge? I don't mean the exact year, but even the decade will do. What do you think of Maharaji? Is he your master? Just an inspirational speaker? How important is he in your life? Background stuff like that. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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...Not you channeling Tommy Cooper. I'm sure he is welcome to come in flesh. Or has the Boss got yer tongue tied? Now....if it were a flying library......? Blissfully, turey.
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Not necessarily everyone - depends on who the rest of your passengers are. Your quote reminded me of a story I like a lot.
A friend of mine lived in Nigeria for a while, in the north, in a poor area. He had a friend who was a pilot, and one day, the pilot had to fly a charter plane to Mecca. The passengers were all from this poor area, and none had flown before. Some villages had clubbed together to send just one of their group to Mecca.
Anyway, these people didn't know too much about planes. Some had brought goats and chickens with them, and the staff had quite a job persuading them to leave the animals behind. One person even brought some firewood for cooking, and the pilot had to frequently go into the cabin to persuade people not to light fires, slaughter chickens ( they hadn't stopped them all ) and so on.
When the plane got to Mecca. there was a problem with the landing gear. One of the wheels wouldn't go down. The pilot circled a while, and tried all he could to fix the wheel, and concluded he'd have to crash land. He made an announcement for everyone to get into the crash landing position, dumped his fuel, and landed the plane. It was pretty bumpy, but they landed safely sliding the fuselage on grass.
When the pilot went back to the cabin, he was amazed to see all the passengers quite happily gathering their luggage, with no sign of panic or fear.
I guess they thought that was the usual way to land a plane....
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Which part do you see as strange?
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Imagine a long, long hall with a stage at each end. Space for a big audience. On stage one you have Rawat in Krishna costume with One Foundation down below playing anaemic white devotional reggae, as his industrial strength church ladies carrying flowers at the front simultaneously weep and wiggle their hips a bit, but not too much. Down the far end on stage two you have Tommy Cooper in his fez doing his immortal 'bottle-glass' routine. I know which end I would be. And so would you, and everyone else probably.
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If he's appearing on stage - he must be as immortal as his act!
And of the two of them I now know he's the 'Greatest Magician'. Bunny 
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Can't beat you for subtlety, that's for sure. Must have learned it at the feet of your master. Always love a dare, though. I'll try...
But you go 'Aaaaaagghhh!!' on an aeroplane that's hurtling toward the ground and you know it's going to crash, but Prem is flying it and all the passengers are premies, so they just say it isn't happening and keep up with the smirking until they all burn.
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"When a pickpocket meets a saint all he sees are his pockets." My version: "When a person tells you he is a saint, but talks like an idiot while convincing you that he's smart (while behaving like a deceitful little narcissistic brat well into adulthood) and sees you as a good mark, which you are, then he proceeds to pick all of your pockets, while you're listening to his bullshit, and eats up your mind, steals your spirituality, and then, and then, he takes your body and uses it all up for his personal gain leaving you little to work with even into middle age, well, then you're a goddamned fool if you continue to believe he's a real saint, just because he's a decent conman." To avoid being cryptic, I'm talking about Prem Rawat the fraud and conman and damned fine pickpocket. lol. I take it you're a premie? Was that some sort of test?
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 09:10:36
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LOOK at how much mis trust has been generated from GMJ man if that dose not tell any one anything about GMJ I have no idea at what would ? Quess it is time for another intrerogation . Who is first ?
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I wish I had known that there was no reason to open my wallet for Mr Rawat. He helped himself to my blood, sweat, tears, time and cash while distracting me with prattle. Saint turey.
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Clearly it's a dangerous and naive vocation. Maybe for the true saint, it's the path to transcending the maya of pickpockets? There's a lot of them about (pickpockets - not saints). Saint Bunny Ji On pickpocket alert ever since
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Just wanted to say it's nice to "see" you here. I hope you're well. Cynthia
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Thanks Cynthia - yes I am and enjoying the hottest English summer for some time. Is Vermont sizzling? Warm regards, Bunny
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Yeah, Vermont's been burning hot. Today let up a bit, but we've been trying not to complain much, seeing winter's right around the corner here.
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Hi Bunny too!Good to see you here. Hope all is well with you. Anna
)
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.....welcome to The Company of Saints! Now Detective! Do you want to come in? Or are you going to stand in the rain and peek? "The price of admission is your mind" Angelically, turey.
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(So few words changed in this, it doesn't even qualify as parody. Most of it comes from Lionel Bart) >>>> In this life, one thing counts
In the bank, large amounts
I'm afraid these don't grow on trees,
You've got to fleece-a-premie or two, yoo..
‘Cos I got to fill-a-pocket or two.
Why should we break our backs
Stupidly paying tax?
Better get some untaxed income
Better fleece-a-premie or two, yoo,
Got to fill-a-pocket or two.
Robin Hood, what a crook!
Gave away, what he took.
Charity's fine, subscribe to mine.
Better fleece-a-premie or two, yoo,
Got to fill-a-pocket or two.
When I see someone rich,
Both my thumbs start to itch
Only to give him some peace of mind
I have to fleece a premie or two, yoo...
Just to fill a pocket or two…
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I've admired your work in the past. You have a talent and I've been thinking the last week or two how there is a pressing need for your talents, right now.
The first of August is the 40th anniversary of Prem Rawat becoming the Incarnation of God on the 13th day after the death of the previous Satguru. I may have the details slightly wrong but Prem himself explained it all in "Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?" which you could check on ex-premie.org/
Now you don't tell an artist what he should do, you humbly request but how about writing a song in honour of this glorious event to the tune of Sgt Peppers and beginning with: "It was 40 years ago today"
It will never be the 40th anniversary of his incarnation again.
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Maharaji taught the gang to pray.. daa daa daa... Guaranteed to raise a smile... ... We're Captain Rawat's dwindling hardcore band / Still hoping to enjoy the show / We're Captain Rawat's dwindling hardcore band / Sit back and let the Mercy flow...' I'll see what I can do...
Modified by Larkin at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 16:51:42
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That's not bad Sam but I prefer the more obvious one:
"Guru Maharaj Ji is the Perfect Mirror".
That's much better at putting people who don't realise Prem Rawat is a glorious Master in their place and it works so well, the stronger the criticism, the more disgusting the criticiser and it works both sides of the fence too. If a premie, God forbid, should just slip into their mind a teensy bit then anything critical they might think can quickly be explained away as the filth in the corner of their mental cupboards. But then
"The dog barks, the caravan moves on"
has that sort of Middle Eastern, mysterious, mystical flair and is great as a throwaway line to pathetic critics of Prem Rawat from whose presence you are exiting cause really they're all a bit beneath you, arent they?
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...And we here are such narrow, bitter people. Is that the drift of your little hit and run koan? Strange? Hmmmm we'll see... Sam, all premies ever do around here is "hit and run". Are you going to be any different? I doubt it. It takes proper grown-up self knowledge to talk openly about devotion, meditation, self, world and such stuff. Your self knowledge is obviously merely on loan. It isn't yours to comunicate with. All you dare attempt is to let off a suggestive little new age one-liner. Routine, textbook, predictable. Sam the Sham, as a premie, you will never be able to connect together your thoughts about your experience and conveniently you believe that's because its beyond words.You have been told that over and over again. You are allowing yourself to be tricked out of a lot of good stuff. Why not start for example by posting,(if you dare) in your own words, what kind of a song your "saint" makes you want to "sing". What generally would the lyrics of that song express? Is it always the same song? Have the words ever altered? If so how do they change, what makes them change? When? There's plenty to go on. The cussin lobby are very detailed and explicit in their complaints, so what about filling in on a few details on the singers side then? And... ..as for "strange isnt it"... Sam, there's really nothing "strange" about it;Nothing that is, if you can resist tossing mystical little quips around and instead learn to reflect accurately and evenly on what you yourself are doing in your own inner life. Go ahead. Bryn
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Hit and run? Nah. Was just feeling full of myself yesterday. Problem is when you post here you have an instant crowd scene. Try and answer all and you'd be here full time.
The tone of Bryn's response for instance, assuming i am looking down on people who post here... Not true in the slightest. I don't like what you guys say but can understand your position - but we could spend a week discussing this one point and, I am sure, we'd get nowhere.
After spending some time over the last few weeks with Maharaji both in and out of events I was just wondering why everyone doesn't get what I get from Maharaji (and I am sure you are thinking the same!).
From day one Maharaji and Knowledge has never let me down - and that's over 35 years. In fact I love it more than ever before.
For me Knowledge does exactly what it says on the tin - it works. And Maharaji is a brilliant inspiration for me.
Having never been religous and still think of myself as an aetheist I don't think of him as Perfect Master, Lotu etc etc. To me he is Maharaji. That's more than enough for me.
Some people here indicate that he is a mean son of a bitch treating his premies with disdain. I have never found that. As Julie Smythe would say "He's the perfect gentleman, to be sure". When we meet I have great respect and gratitude but I feel so comfortable and am happy to argue a point and not stand on ceremony. He's a joy to be with.
Knowledge works but I also work at it. In 35 years you could count on both hands and feet the number of times I have missed my daily practice - and have a couple of digits spare. His talks regularly bring tears to my eyes and I love participation. I'm off to Delhi at the end of the month and will, by hook or by crook, be at Amaroo in September.
I can't get enough. I love it.
Conversely most of you guys have had enough and you hate it - I guess I am a little fascinated by that, that's why, over the years, I lurk here from time to time.
Anyways, I'd better get off, got lotsa work to do and i've spent too long here.
All the best,
Sam
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Sam, Interesting post, to be sure. I don't doubt your sincerity. But you must realize that your post does not answer any questions, it merely highlights the dichotomy that occurs with Maharaji and Knowledge. I think that your post incorrectly describes the situation. You say that you "get it" from Maharaji and from meditation, and that most of us exes must "hate it." I think it would be far more accurate to say that premies get it from Maharaji and other people get it elsewhere. And by "it" I mean to say what you presumably mean, which is: the feelings of peace, happiness, inspiration, fulfillment, and awe for life. I certainly do NOT mean "God realization." You say that you can't get enough and you seem to be quite, quite content with your source, namely the four techniques and the Master-figure of Prem Rawat. The difference between premies and exes involves the source. Precisely and uniquely the source. If it were true that you "can't get enough" it might someday occur to you that "it" isn't in Amaroo, or Delhi, or Rawat, or even hidden deep within yourself! If you decided one day to quit following Rawat around the globe, quit listening to his talks, and to quit practicing the four techniques for longer than 20 days in a row (all ten fingers and toes), you might be surprised that peace and love do not have the requirements that Rawat claims they do. His teaching is half true and half false. Love is good, but the source of love is not as he indicates. But get it how you can. That's what people do. (By the way, Knowledge, according to Rawat's father, did used to be about God-realization. Our present argument is only about Rawat's new version of Knowledge).
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Hi SamI agree with Will above completely. I make the distinction between your experience, and your interpretation or explanation of your experience. Your experience is of course yours, and I at least would not dream of challenging that. But I certainly challenge your explanation of your experience, as emanating from Maharaji and/or the Knowledge, or needing him/it for its existence. I certainly don't hate whatever you think I do. In fact, at any time up until a few years I could have written your post word for word. The difference now is that, as I say, I do not see anything coming from Maharaji other than the usual when a crowd focus on one figure (delirious crowds at a rock concert, desperate pilgrms at Lourdes etc). If he is your catalyst, as I would put it, to enable you to have your experience, then fair enough, but there is a high a price to pay for it I think. For me now, my meditation and experience of life has never been sweeter than since I have stepped out from his shadow, and faced myself and the World with no intermediary or broker in between. As Will says, you will never know if that is the case unless you try it. And it is certainly challenging - I know for sure, since I was where you were for 30+ years too. Of course, you will only be spurred to accept that challenge if you see any contradictions in your present circumstances, and you clearly don't. I wish you the best anyway. Take care -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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....thanks for replying to the gathered crowd. This was not a group gawking at an accident scene but enchanted by the possibility of another free spirit joining the ongoing conversation. I looked Mr Rawat in the eye not at his pockets and rejoiced in finding a way to serve/work with a/the higher power and experience BLISS. You seem to be satisfied with expensive doses of feelgood. Maybe The Universe does create individuals who assist us toward an ultimate goal. I'll let everyone know if I ever meet any. Mr Rawat seems to have found himself as an obscure motivational speaker offering Yoga techniques that are in the public domain. He will find it impossible to conceal that he once claimed to be the one that offered the ultimate possiblity only reached by listening to his every word and obeying him without question. So, are you surrendering the reins of your life to him Detective Slade? or just "chilling out?". turey.
Modified by turey at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 14:20:22
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When I first heard this, I knew from my own observations, that this was true. yet I felt my heart resist.
It can't be true, it musn't be true, we cry. We; his only means of support, his reason for being born in times of decline of righteousness and increase of evil.
Somewhere, if I dwell upon this statement I can still feel a faint echo of the hurt this fact brought. I have seen enough to back Bob 100% on this: it's true. He finds premies boring, annoying, embarrassing. He probably wishes he were in another business that paid as well and was such a piece of cake.
Perhaps he is disappointed, perhaps he was promised super premies like Hanuman. To be so concerned with his own venture and so unconcerned with all the reports of harm that it has caused in people's lives, only serves to illustrate the general contempt with which he regards the human race: considering himself not really a part of it; but above it. And them, the members, expendable, replaceable, an unlimited resource to be harvested.
It is all an act from the moment he leaves his suite. I feel sorry for the premies who love sometimes with such pure hope and expectation and imagine they see that love reflected.
Any one can meditate, just sit.
It won't be long before realising that breath is one of the few things you've got to play with.
Looking, listening and tasting and smelling are pretty obvious too. What else are you going to do? Gain control of them if you want or enjoy releasing them, be conscious of these things or try to reach that natural state of not being conscious of them? Look inside or outside on a micro or macro scale: focus: still your mind: see all things, if you like, as one. Be at peace.
Anywhere, in your way: have your own experience and be thankful. It is all yours and you are free. Nothing to become a slave for. Or a mindless automaton. Or poor.
Feel the shared atmosphere of the natural moment, with all life, in a breeze and a breath entwined.
No one needs to be reminded. He needs the money and needs to fill the hall for the few new ones to be impressed.
After that he hates to hear any more about premies until he has to sober up and reluctantly do it all again.
Lp
Modified by LP at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 18:56:25
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...and respecting your busy schedule and all, you are not really saying a lot here. You are slipping charmingly by. Fair enough, I do get your enthusiasm of course. Just to focus on a couple of things you say: "I was just wondering why everyone doesn't get what I get from Maharaji" To which the obvious rejoinder is: "Sam do you ever wonder what you get from Maharaji?" You don't reveal much by way of an answer to that. You only go as far as to say "it works. Its never let me down.I love it etc". And that Ronseal *on the tin* reference; well we all know roughly what the function of a good polyurethane varnish actually is, so to claim that it does what it should do has real meaning there. But in the context of a lifetimes dedication to an inner path, exactly what does Knowledge claim on its tin that it succeeds at so well ? Do you get me? Sam I think you are on the run and I'm not going to stop you. You imagine if you turn around and evaluate you will turn to stone. It doesn't surprise me that you feel you "can't get enough". Nearly finished: "Conversely most of you guys have had enough and you hate it" Nope Sam. We don't hate what we formerly loved. We simply increased it. We enlarged our repertoire so to speak to include new stuff. Stuff like our selves, our own thinking, our own motivations, our own wills. There is a difficult element of self-reclamation in that.Like you, I meditated dilligently as directed.Eventually (25 yrs) I noticed that it is a very one sided practice that Maharaji supplies. Exing, you don't just keep on moving anymore. You move, but you also have to know for yourself where, in detail, you want to go. No guide, no map, infact no terrain either. Certainly no charming master. And finally- What did you mean "I am happy to argue a point and not stand on ceremony". You must be an extraordinarily priviledged (sp?) student to be in a position to bandy words with the Master himself! Speak Oh, and surely you saw him as the Perfect Master when he used to say he was the Perfect Master, didn't you? Thats all Sam. Ta a lot for the reply-really. Top marks for bravura. low though so far for substance! Call again. Ignore the crowds. Love Bryn
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Hit and run? Nah. Was just feeling full of myself yesterday. Problem is when you post here you have an instant crowd scene. Try and answer all and you'd be here full time.
Hey, Sam. I'm sure you'd get a similar response on any forum where you dropped by just to call the posters idiots. But, yes, it's a practical concern. Especially when you've got a cult master to serve and your time's not really yours to speak of. The tone of Bryn's response for instance, assuming i am looking down on people who post here... Not true in the slightest. I don't like what you guys say but can understand your position - but we could spend a week discussing this one point and, I am sure, we'd get nowhere.
Yes, well that's a lie and you're a liar to say it. Of course you're looking down on us! Your stupid parable, which you know we're all familiar with ad nauseum couldn't be more insulting. It was on the level of "Pearls before Swine" only instead of comparing us to pigs you're comparing us to thieves. I'm sure we would get nowhere discussing this because, as a typical premie, you don't have the integrity or clarity of mind to be fair. After spending some time over the last few weeks with Maharaji both in and out of events I was just wondering why everyone doesn't get what I get from Maharaji (and I am sure you are thinking the same!).
From day one Maharaji and Knowledge has never let me down - and that's over 35 years. In fact I love it more than ever before.
For me Knowledge does exactly what it says on the tin - it works. And Maharaji is a brilliant inspiration for me.
As a typical cult member, you just let Rawat set and reset and -- lie about what he set before -- as goals to achieve. What the hell does "works" mean? Are you enlightened? Have you merged with God? Saved your soul? Escaped the cycle of birth-and-death? Overcome your ego? Found perfect hapiness? No, you've just found your place in your cult leader's stable. You're a dog and he's your master. Woof! Having never been religous and still think of myself as an aetheist I don't think of him as Perfect Master, Lotu etc etc. To me he is Maharaji. That's more than enough for me.
You're lying through and through. You are no more an atheist than you're able to spell the word. Christ, I'm going to have to take a shower after this post. Just talking to you makes me feel slimy. Some people here indicate that he is a mean son of a bitch treating his premies with disdain. I have never found that. As Julie Smythe would say "He's the perfect gentleman, to be sure". When we meet I have great respect and gratitude but I feel so comfortable and am happy to argue a point and not stand on ceremony. He's a joy to be with.
Yes, I'm very, very sure that you've stood your ground and argued with your cult leader! LOL!! God, what aliars he's turned you guys into! Disgusting! Knowledge works but I also work at it. In 35 years you could count on both hands and feet the number of times I have missed my daily practice - and have a couple of digits spare. His talks regularly bring tears to my eyes and I love participation. I'm off to Delhi at the end of the month and will, by hook or by crook, be at Amaroo in September.
I can't get enough. I love it.
You sound like a goof. How you can mouth that mealy mouthed word "participation" with a straight face is a wonder. Well, whatever. You'll die in this cult and I won't. That's the bottom line. Conversely most of you guys have had enough and you hate it - I guess I am a little fascinated by that, that's why, over the years, I lurk here from time to time.
Anyways, I'd better get off, got lotsa work to do and i've spent too long here.
All the best,
Sam
Sam, Like I said, you'll likely die in this cult and I won't. That is the bottom line.
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did you read my post about what you'll be doing under the meditation sheet? Hope you laughed! Also wanna hear you sing the best of the Guru Puja Songbook at the party for Ocker who missed all the good stuff he thinks.
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Hi there, No, where's the post? I'm looking for it. Even did a search for "masturbation" but can't find anything. As for Ocker, I must say, I really like the guy. He's funny, smart and interesting. But he's soooooo clueless about this ashram stuff and the real tour some of us took. Well, Cynthia said it all. I'd be happy to sing a few devotional songs at Ocker's party. Did I ever give you the words to the one I wrote when I entered the ashram? It was a real tear jerker: 
All our lives We've been asleep In a dream of ti-i-i-me And endless search for the lo-o-ove Lying right behind Open your heart And hear your heart Calling cle-e-ear With every brea-a-a-th Come here Do you fear A little child With a heart of go-o-old? Can you re-a-ally Be so old? Maharaji's here And he's giving his love It's the secret of life Lay yourself down before him Bathe in his ocean of love and life Fly on the wings Of his Holy Name It's so strong and tru-u-ue To the birth of creation The heart of Satguru Leave your darkened Thoughts behind They'll never serve yo-o-ou What you want, what you need Is the love of Satguru Satchitanand Eternal Bliss Is who we ar-r-re And by His infinite gr-a-a-ce We turn towards His star Maharaji's here And he's giving his love It's the secret of life Lay yourself down before him Bathe in his ocean of love and life
Modified by Jim at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 21:24:42
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You really wrote that? Our Jim? Really? It's funny to make jokes about it all, and I love to, but seriously the power of a cult to take a brain as logical as yours is and turn it to the mush that would write a song like that....so scary. I am so glad you got out. Really, I think if anyone ever doubts your sincerity or motives is show them the song and tell them you meant every word. I know I would have meant every word you wrote when I was in the cult. I would have loved the song I am sure. But it really is scary to think you wrote it. But, enough of this seriousness....let's plan to give poor Ocker the ashram experience he never had.
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Yes, Susan, that and more. When you come visit me I'll sing them for you and we can close our eyes, feel his grace and go to that place together. And of course I meant it. We all did. *sigh* Very funny, by the way, that stuff with Ocker. I hope he's enjoyed it. I'm sure he has.
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As much as Ocker may feel he missed out on something not getting to live the Ashram era. I think you and I missed out on something to. I never got to be a PAM. Dettmers could throw US a party. Someone could have a huge gauche beach estate, we could play Frampton comes a live...and...cognac too. Actually never mind, the ashram party sounds a lot more fun. All of us waiting hand and foot and kissing someones feet and all that...I guess maybe a flight on the private jet might be interesting....but all in all I'd rather share some dahl, chapatis with brothers and sisters and listen to your songs. I would bet ex PAMs don't get much in the way of nostalgia for the days of catering to Rawat's every whim.
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Hi Susan,
I don't want to spoil the party but if it is going to be authentic then I have to admit that I was a terrible part pooper back then. Once I became involved with DLM I really only wanted to do SS&M. Mind you as a family man it's not like I actually did do anything like that but if I went to a meditation retreat or a service weekend then that's what I wanted to immerse myself in. In the front row too. I actually refused Christmas morning and lunch at my aunty's in our lovely beachside suburb one Christmas (it was a family tradition) and dragged the kids to the grotty part of the city to help clean the satsang hall.
On the other hand, those days are long gone so I guess I have to thank Prem Rawat for teaching me something even if it wasn't the one of things he was teaching. Actually it was the opposite of what he was teaching so he really can teach something or is that nothing as it's the opposite of what he was trying to teach?
Now I am a little conflicted. If I go to California again shoudl I spend all my time among the sequioas or should I take a side trip to Vancouver to the Jim Heller devotional music concert?
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You want to come up here sometime, come right ahead. We're just singing all the time anyway. La la la la la la la. And we can throw a few devotional numbers on the barbie, too, for you and the little lady. I'm not wearing one of those things you wore to court though, no matter what. You can, I just don't feel manly enough I guess. BTW, ever hear anything about that intrepid reporter and brave champion of the truth, John?
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I enquired recently of a friend of his who said he'd pass the message on to John who could then contact me if he wished but it looks like he didn't wish.
But I'm not coming in the rainy season. Is there a time in Vancouver when it isn't the rainy season?
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We are going there soon. I won't be posting much from there I HOPE. We are spending a bit more than a week. Going to Rarotonga first, a few days, then 5 in Aitutaki. It should be FABULOUS. They are filming the American show "Survivor" there right now which is a bummer for us because the show has taken over one of the most beautiful islands "One Foot Island" in Aitutaki lagoon. A place people usually visit by boat while in Aitutaki. We went to Fiji last year. We stayed on a small island of Taveuni. Was the best trip I ever had. Even better than living in an ashram! No but seriously, mostly Australian's there. I guess it's sort of to you guys what Hawaii is to Californians. And the people of Fiji were the nicest warmest people. Have you been to Fiji or Cooks? We looked at Tahiti too but its just way more money. But anyway, soon I'll be on your side of the equator! Isn't it nice to not be a premie....can you imagine if your vacation was squandered at Amaroo? Though I did read about a really cool place on the Northwest part of Austalia where the dolphins actually come to swim with the humans, but it seemed like there wasn't much in the area to do but that one thing.
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"it seemed like there wasn't much in the area to do but that one thing."
Now that is a pretty good description of most of Australia, big and empty. You can spend an awful lot of time on the road seeing nothing but sameness. I've never been to the Cook Islands but I have grown some Cook Island pines which I love, so tall and symmetrical with branches that don't protrude. On vacation I lean more to Europe where my roots lie and all our cultural and historical roots lie. Australia is my home but it's gray-green and devoid of history and tropical islands hold no attractions for me.
Have a wonderful time.
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A sarong. Hey, if John contacts you please send him my love and tell him that if he's got an address, I'll clean the blade off and send his knife back. As for rain, man, it's beautiful here. Actually, it rains a lot in the winter on the mainland but a third less here on the island. I must say, I had to fly over to Van the other day and when I flew back at 3:00 I was pretty much gobsmacked by how beautiful it can be up here. Flying over Vancouver, then the gulf islands, then Vancouver Island and here to cute little Victoria. Nice. Google-earth us or something.
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If I have ever appeared in court and I'm not stating I ever have, I would certainly now regret not wearing a sarong but not half as much as I would regret not telling the defendant's barrister what I thought of him and his sleazy questioning when he knew full well I would be telling the truth and his client would be lying. I would also regret not returning to court and telling the magistrate what I thought of him and his inability to tell the truth when he heard it if he had decided that. I think I would have worn what I usually do at that time of year which would have been track suit pants and a Tshirt.
I could only be a prosecutor. I'm sure you have the best intentions, Jim, but if you're a defense lawyer having to basically lie and cheat in a courtroom for a guilty defendant and attack people who you knew were telling the truth (assuming you do that and I can't see how a defense lawyer could avoid it) is more than I could stand.
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In fact both prosecutors and defence are often pinched in the general way you're thinking. But it's not quite like that, believe it or not, it's more nuanced and, in those nuances are the gears that drive our common law system of adversial litigation. I'll say this -- I don't think that I lie and cheat in court. I'll also say that on a good day I love my job and feel proud when it goes well. What do you do, by the way?
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Crikey Jim, you really tore into the venerable Sam there!There was I trying to get some gentle dialogue going and now we wont see him again ever. He'll be in premie casualty getting his wounds licked. Diplomacy was the family business, so I have no problem letting the opposition enjoy their high-status if it furthers the cause. Truth will out in the end I've found, even in non-adversarial discourse. Jim, I'd seen all those implicit postures but was being selective, polite, interested, discreet, we were playing cricket; the guy/ette is obviously English goddamit! I do enjoy your flame thrower approach though. It gives me a chance to mention the following, buried down here, about a mutual premie acquaintence with a public profile.Its a longish read, but such an unconscious snapshot of the Rawat mindshift. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=395662&in_page_id=1879&in_a_source= To me the fascinating thing about this article is the tone in which the author characterises the fictional "angel" idenity. In its writers voice it is transparantly the stage persona of Prem Rawat. It even tells the same stories. "Channeling" is such a revealing artifice. It sort of gave me an insight into my own delusion as a premie and how I achieved dialogue with my "imaginary friend", and convinced myself to regard Prem Rawat as its representative in the flesh, and all without noticing one single sign of what I was doing. Saw your song (!) and can speak highly of Dan's efforts,all available on ipod on his site for free. All the best Bryn
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...to The Universe thanks to Mr Cainer. "Kindly allow your creature Prem Rawat to wise up!". "...oh and ask Det Sam to come back and play" turey
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I can't possibly think of a word to describe how I feel when I read stuff like that. I go numb. And to think that this guy's rich as a result of being such a silly, silly clown! I wonder, do you see him at all right now? You might have said before but I forget. Funny, though, how he was always in Daniel's shadow back when I knew them. My how things change. I'd love to see Daniel or Sally again. Tell 'em as much if you ever cross paths.
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...the article was (i thought) so unwittingly revealing, and at the same time so multi-layered: I was hoping for the benefit of your hermeneutic insight at some level. No problem though. I sometimes feel that I come here to find out how it was that I disappeared into oblivion for 25 years! The answer is here somwhere, and given the depth and seamlesness of the illusion I imagine the answer must be complex. Cainer's text seemed it might bear analysis to reveal clues of how far out a highly intelligent mind can get and yet not know it.(or perhaps know yet not know etc etc) Cainer as a person here was not really my interest, only as a premie author of a new age religious article in the public domain. Yes I do see him quite regularly and we banter, maybe even skirmish a bit, but like with all premies, K and M is a no go area. Its the same with Muslims.I feel some sympathy for Premie Spouse who posts here. The sheer witholding narcissicism of the riligious mind is infuriating. See Dan from time to time. He is a sweetie. And Sal last year.(they split ages ago) Once again the premie habit of imagining that their secret centre from which they talk is invisible, came into that encounter for me. Keep using the flame thrower. Your dismissal of Sam Sludge was hilarious, but if you are reading here Sam, (people do) do come back. Love Bryn
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Doubt they'll publish it but I gave them this: I used to know Jonathan when he was penniless and living in L.A. His brother and future sister-in-law were my roommates. We were all in the same cult together, followers of the Lord of the Universe, Guru Maharaj Ji (a/k/a Maharaji a/k/a Prem Rawat). As a former follower of this ridiculous cult, I can see how Jonathan has made a nest of silly strings from Rawat's absurd teachings. Well there's certainly a market for pixie dust, isn't there? Jonathan's gotten rich without doing a day's honest work in his life. I guess you could say he has successfully followed in the path of his Master. LOL!!
Bryn, Tell Jonathan that he still owes my ex-girlfriend, Deborah, an astrology reading. And please tell Daniel that, if he didn't know it, his friend -- what was that guy's name? The black guy who's claim to fame was playing Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar. He used to come over to parties at our place -- died. As for Sally, say hi. Or perhaps hey. Hey or hi. Maybe hello. I don't know, you'll think of something, I'm sure.
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Sure there's a bit of a reference to the Mr Rawat breath cliche: You don't question your breath. You don't wonder about how your heart beats. You just accept these gifts without a second thought."
But this guy is talking of a benign world: "I just used to say I was trusting that the world is, by and large, a benign and generous place" and Mr Rawat's world is one where more premies have done "security service" than anything else. Mr Rawat's world is not one where he casually meets with premies or reporters or anyone in the street. In Mr Rawat's world he always has some minders with him and Mr Rawat definitely doesn't even trust his premies, at least not to do propagation.
And he tells people to have faith in themselves: "If you follow my column in the Mail, you'll know that whatever's going on in the heavens, and regardless of what else needs to be communicated, I am forever encouraging my readers to have faith in themselves " and Mr Rawat only tells people to have faith in him and gratitude for their breath to him as well. Admittedly he doesn't say the gratitude should be to him but it's pretty no very obvious. And he condemns short-sighted materialism: "We live in a world where many people are so short-sighted and materialistic that they cannot see beyond their immediate material cravings." You could argue that Mr Rawat has long-sighted materialistic cravings and he's had them for a long time too but you've got to give Mr Rawat credit, he never tried to hide those material cravings, only satisfy them.
And finally he talks of an intermediary: "I am your connection to the cosmos, your personal intermediary in all transactions that involve the universe", an invisible spirit guide and Mr Rawat is becoming more materially visible every year.
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Even if all pickpockets see are pockets, at least they're seeing something real. What do you see, Sammy?
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I heard this quote recently. Thought it appropriate to this board.
"When a pickpocket meets a saint all he sees are his pockets."
He makes me want to sing. He makes (some of) you want to cuss. Strange isn't it?
I heard this even more recently, and I think it is also very appropriate for this board. "When a saint meets a pickpocket he sees the emptiness of his pockets." Welcome to the company of saints Sam. Yes, I agree with you… it is strange here. But here we are, and, after all these years, we can share openly our knowledge. So please sing for us Sam, we`d all like to hear your song.
Modified by milarepa at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 05:14:48
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He makes me want to sing. He makes (some of) you want to
cuss. Strange isn't it?
Hi Sam
I think this is a very good question. There is quite a lot of cussing going on
here!! I think my answer would be that the song feels to me like the song of
the Pied Piper, a lure to other worlds, away from the earth, friends and
family. I know that Rawat has talked about wanting to make people feel the song
inside them, and I guess that’s what you’re referring to. It must be quite a
shock to come here…… No matter how I try to keep the Knowledge thing as a
separate asset to my life, rather than as an origin of life, I can't. It comes
in and takes me away from the earth that I love, the cultural diversity that I
adore, and life’s problems that fascinate me and make me feel a sense of
wholeness within myself. I feel more settled and content without Knowledge in
my life. With Knowledge/Rawat, my laughter might become delicate, and my heart
feel exceedingly sweet, but I also feel a sense of panic in my chest and a separation
from a deeper knowing that it’s a delusion. I prefer the earthy guttural
laughter and fully rounded feeling in my heart. I think, for me, the cussing
has to do with popping the bubble, shutting the door on the Piper, and keeping
it closed. Swearing is a very earthy thing to do, it’s what farmers do,
coz they deal with shit and blood, copulation and death. Farmers stand in mud,
get cold, watch their crops dry up in the sun, and deal with floods in the
winter. They cope. They live LIFE, with all that life throws at them, not an
imaginary, (imo) death-bliss in heaven. They don’t sit around in fancy houses
eating from silver plates in white silk clothes, laughing at sweet gentle jokes
whilst eating pretty cakes. It is this kind of quality of difference that makes
me feel uneasy about Rawat, the song is too sweet, the plates too silver, and
the clothes too white. (sorry, a little over poetic…..) I now fear that involvement with K is far more insidious and
far reaching into personal lives, than I ever thought possible. It worries me
when I see the mess of the lives of many 1970’s prems, who carry on as though
they are still teenagers, with all the innocence and lack of life skills that
the age brings. Maybe it’s just the ones I know, but to me they seem very, very
stressed, and as thought they are fighting to stay in that blissful place.
There seems to be more depression, drinking and broken homes than amongst the
non-prems I know. I think acting like an adult has been given a bad press, yes
you lose that lovely child like free expression, and come across as more
calculating and wary, and start cussing, but hell, it WORKS!!! Alice p.s If there are any prems reading this for whom K is really
fulfilling you, then good for you, I’m glad it’s working with your life. All I would
say is be conscious, conscious of what is really unfolding.
Modified by alice at Wed, Jul 19, 2006, 07:35:22
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