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Hi Insearch, that sounds like a well thought out set of questions.
And you sound a bit better today, How are you?
(while I go and review these Q.'s)
I just thought: we would have probably come across them (K)
in some other way, seeing the way
information has become more available since.
Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 08:56:00
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Sorry to hear it, physically, mentally or emotionally?
I'll be back.
Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 09:47:56
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'When we took K we were a bunch of long haired hippies'
You say "bunch of long haired hippies" as if it was both a derogatory term and as if it meant that we all thought the same or had the same aspirations, or had them to the same degree.
If this is the implication, it still has a premie ring to it. But I expect I'm imagining it. Anyway I would disagree on all counts, with my imaginings.
'So where did the seperation come from that allowed some premies to stay with K and some to leave'
Again, I expect I'm imagining it, this needs breaking down into small chunks.
'seperation'
This describes a model that in my opinion doesn't work.
The model is of two existant things with a third thing interceding and separating them
This model doesn't work because there is no third thing, the existence of the second is questionable, only the first is relevant. That is:
The individual which you seem to disregard: speaking in terms of bunches and separations which allow or do not allow people to leave knowledge. This is the perspective of EV/rawat.
"Was Milkey and Glen dishonest from the start"
I do not judge or discuss previous brothers or sisters, for the time while they were under the influence of the "hypnotist". maharaji got us all to lie.
'Where did the control come from' Do we have to ask?
'Does anyone believe that suffering is not being caused by M and His K'
Was that a pin dropping?
'Is there no recognition by those who are in power that there is suffering going on in the mission'
Are you talking about powers in the mission or in the world and it's nations and law enforcement agencies?
'What is the use of having a bank without money, it just becomes an empty building I mean we are dealing with educated people here' True
'Are the great people of history who tried to bring learning and
compassion, and in some cases died for their beliefs, to mankind to be swept under the carpet' Which great people? Which learning and compassion? Swept under the carpet how?
'Is M dishonest time will give the answer'
Wrong answer. Truth has already shown, some time ago. And our personal testimonies each answer that in a different life experience. We are talking about people not the success of a plan. M is dishonest because what he said he had, in respect of an experience he said he could give to people, was false. He is also not who he said he was.
And there is no way maharaji can use time to change the outcome, the more time, the more he will be shown to be wrong and a deceiver of the innocent.
You answered the rest.
Lp
Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 13:41:24
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Two of them were especially important to me One...we were not at all hippies. I was a 13 year old good girl. Good grades and never been in trouble in my life. Just a lonely geeky kid with braces. Some of my friends had no real choice but to join this cult, their parents did, and they were raised among premies and by premies. Quite a few, actually I think a fairly huge group, were good high school and college students, not into drugs or hippie culture to any degree, who fell for it. I like hippies well enough, but M has not preyed on hippies alone. The last part is so true. We DON'T need time to tell us anything. All the evidence is there. It is so there its ridiculous. First of all, it is really there, as it was for me, even without reading a word here. Its really pretty clear to outsiders at a glance that M is a greedy power hungry con man. For me, I just started to see that in 1978-79. Others here just came to see it on their own, without knowing all the behind the scenes stuff that confirms it. But there is so much evidence now that there is no doubt. I think most of us go through a phase of wishing M would change and face the hard questions publically and take responsibility, but its like wishing a sociopath murderer will confess....the sickness that allows him to play God is not going to let him do that...if he even has any conscience at all.
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I don't know the answer but I wonder about that too. I know this may sound strange but I would not totally give up hope on almost anyone to leave the cult...except M himself. I feel there is enough evidence he has a narcissistic/borderline personality disorder that it is fairly hopeless and crisis of conscience will ever overcome him. Many of us have discussed the "what if" Rawat were to openly and honestly address his past and apologize. But if you read ex-premie site and read the content and open letters of PAMS...I think when they made the break they almost all proposed that M needed to face the responsibility he has for the lives he has "taken the reins of". If you haven't read Bob Mishler, Mike Donner, Michael Dettmer, Mike Finch and True Blue Mary M...the themes are the same. And that gets around to the other question. I do believe a few in the cult may have started out as bad people and remained so. I believe Jagdeo is an example. The cult didn't make him a monster, the cult just was a place he could get away with it because of the power it gave him. I think there are a few examples of other people who don't leave and never will because they like Rawat have no true conscience. I think they like the power they have in the cult and status. But I am not sure how many fall into that. I do know that every year someone leaves and posts here just about who has been in forever and was fairly powerful in the cult. I don't completely understand what things coalesce and why to give someone the courage to leave. As much as we read stories of how we all had drips ( I hope you have read Anths journey) that finally got to that critical point of a chemical reaction ....and its like the curtain went up and we saw what we fought to ignore before. My point is, I am not sure how much blame to put on people who remain. Some of us were them not long ago, and all of us once were. Most of us helped suck at least one other person into the cult. Most of us hurt our families when we were in the cult. If we can't forgive eachother, and those in it, and understand the forces of coercion within a high control group like this ...who can? I do think that those who held positions of great power within the group do "owe" it to the rest of us to speak out. Many have. But there are quite a few silent PAMs out there whose voices could add credibility. Well....I rambled, I don't know if that addresses you concerns very well. I don't know Glenn for example, but I guess I don't have much reason to think he didn't join for the same idealistic reasons we all did. I don't know him well enough to speculate on why he stays. But as you see, your own process is damn scary. You have to admit you were wrong. You have built your life around Rawat. Its a huge thing to get out after decaded. Most people I believe that its fear, not that they are evil.
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Modified by LP at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 10:43:43
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I've been thinking more on your post Susan:
I remember very early on realising that being merely a seeker of truth, and sincere, and having lots of love to give etc.. didn't really interest m. Regular folks who fell head over heels in devotion were boring to maharaj.
The ones who aroused his interest, (apart from being wealthy or knowing someone who was) were not the types of people who would just drop everything and go on a spiritual quest.
What floated his boat was finding people who had "worldly skills", possibly even those who saw this as an opportunity, or career.
People with organising and business skills, people with aggressive materialistic traits were far more useful to him. They did not have to have any particular noble aspiration, only the ability to help create and sustain the business side of the organisations and an appetite for working with money.
I remember, while I was thinking what lovely truth seeking types are coming along, (I actively sought out this sincere, but humble type of seeker to give satsang to, (forgive me)) sometimes someone would bring along a professional person with corporate skills.
Quite often they were not seekers, by my definition. They might have had only a mild curiosity to start with. I felt hurt to see how we were dismissed as insignificant, often after considerable efforts and sacrifices, while these people were quickly ushered onto the red carpet, given special treatment and made to feel important and appreciated, with hardly a break in their busy schedules.
We dared not defile the holy of holies, his residence or his room, leaving our shameful shoes, some way back down the driveway lest they offend.
These new professional types were invited in, shoes and all, into his inner sanctum, before they had even shown much sign of devotion or truth seeking.
Within weeks they were going in the backdoor, breezing disdainfully past mere, poor devotees huddled outside, who had nothing to offer but our life and our love. What good was that, you couldn't sell it.
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 05:29:09
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'We dared not defile the holy
of holies, his residence or his room, leaving our shameful shoes, some
way back down the driveway lest they offend.'
LP - you have some lovely phrases coming out of you! I appreciate what you write about too, but sometimes some of these phrases stay ringing in my ears. Very pleasant! Good job Rawat doesn't have your skill with words - his poetry was a BIG drip for me!
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Gulp, thanks 13, you're very kind. I appreciate your words and phrases and your subjects too.
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 05:14:43
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I think you have hit on a very real phenomenon within the cult. I saw it too, that a certain type of useful person to Rawat broke through the "barriers" that held the rest of us seekers of truth at a distance. You have to wonder, if on a gut level, the ex rated could just recognize in eachother if a person would have what it took to deal with M's drinking, partying and awful behavior behind the scenes. I know for sure that I would have crashed and burned quickly had I been X rated. In fact, I was getting a taste of the fact there was a lot of hypocrisy from where I was when I left.. I would not have been able to deal with the real M and either gone nuts or left or probably both. I know for sure, that being one of the elite x rated would have appealed to me and made it harder to leave, but I would NOT have been able to deal with seeing that stuff. I would have lost it. I know of a few people who did leave quickly after seeing the craziness of the Rawat family in Miami in the early eighties, no one who posts. So maybe sometimes, the gave the oath to the wrong folks
But yes, I think there are a few among the PAMs with a hole where their heart should be that was there before they ever joined. The problem is that how you act when you are in a cult makes you LOOK a lot like you have the same hole in your heart. So how do you know if they are born sociopaths or just another cult member?
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And another problem is that they gain control over us and become our teashirts!
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 13:32:31
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those ones that are polyester just don't feel real and make me sweat
Modified by Susan at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 10:53:09
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and they gather static
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 13:27:16
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Yo! Susan.You ask: "...how do you know if they are born sociopaths or just another cult member?" Good question. Another good question is - why on earth hang around long enough to find out?
Just get the hell out of there!
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Hi Susan, You mentioned true blue... so I'm posting this attachment. I have saved posts by Mary M too. I try to save the posts that I think are worthwhile. Your posts...like this one is another post well worth saving IMHO. Best Thoughts Susan and Great Post! Hilltop
Modified by Hilltop at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 22:40:59
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So where did the seperation come from that allowed some premies to stay with K and some to leave There is no separation. Simply, some premies woke up sooner than others. Looking sincerely to rataji as he really is left no other option. How can anyone evaluate what happened to them as premies and how rataji changed and stay in the cult? When a premie THINKS (contradicts rataji, who said that thinking was bad to understand the bonds of devotion) freedom begin. The remaining premies haven't "judge" rataji, yet. They are too busy following orders: Never, never judge the matser. Remember? Was Milkey and Glen dishonest from the start Where did the control come from Silly question. What do you think? Can it be that the controlling "master" taught them to be that way, as it was needed? Does anyone believe that suffering is not being caused by M and His K Yes. K as taught by rataji, based in blind devotion, can drive anybody crazy. Is there no recognition by those who are in power that there is suffering going on in the mission I know positively that there is. David Smith is brutal and he knows it, but pleasing the master comes first. What is the use of having a bank without money, it just becomes an empty building The money is in ANOTHER BANK.... I mean we are dealing with educated people here What is education? I wouldn't consider "them" to be educated, if that is what you meant. Real education comes from a clear mind able to analize complete thoughts. They cannot do that. Sanity has left the building. Are the great people of history who tried to bring learning and compassion, and in some cases died for their beliefs, to mankind to be swept under the carpet What does rataji cares about truth? His $$truth$$ is what matters. Am I a rat, a whistle blower, not flying the flag for king and country.....no You are not a rat buy a human being with rights. You have the right to express your discontent and whatever you want to say about the REAL RAT. Is M dishonest time will give the answer Am I suffering because of M ......yes You WILL get better. Time will heal the spiritual wound. Do I get answers from M .......no How are you trying to get answers from him? Is it my right to seek answers.....yes YES!!!!! Would I take K again........noooooooooooooooooo Neither could I. As LP said, you sound better. Use this forum to work out your frustrations and pain. I recommend that you read EPO to help your mind deprogram from the crap the rataji put in your head. Stick around. Best wishes. 
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So where did the seperation come from that allowed some premies to stay with K and some to leave I don't think it's that simple. I know that I "stayed" a premie for a long time after I knew on some level it was all a crock. I'm sure trhere are many premies who are in the same boat now. But fear, habit and programming keeps people ostensibly involved. Fear, and having assimilated the dysfunctional and destructive idea, taught by Rawat, that you can't trust your own mind to analyze M or K, or entertain doubt when it comes to Maharaji, are, I think the main culprits. Since being a rational, thinking, person requires the entertainment of doubt in order to analyze absolutely anything, you are stuck on that side of the river if you are too afraid to do that. For some reason, ex-premies had the courage at some point to brave the fears and go to the other side of the river, where the view of Maharaji, knowledge and the rest comes into perspective. You can finally see what was really going on all the time.
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Real people listen to their doubts. That's what science is all about ... but apparently premies aren't allowed to.Ironic, ain't it? The word "knowledge" is ultimately derived from the latin word "scio" = "I know", from whence we get the word "science". But science is all about challenging beliefs, and testing evidence. Any system that disapproves of such methods cannot, by definition, be scientific. Consequently the so-called "Knowledge" that Rawat propagates has very little in common with the science of real "knowing". It is much more akin to the non-scientific belief systems that mark many a personality-cult. Any authority that discourages examining all the evidence, and disapproves actively doubting assumed "givens" - is an authority that, by definition, can never be scientific. Credulity. That's what the "Knowledge" should really be called.
Modified by cq at Thu, Jun 29, 2006, 15:47:19
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Hi, Insearchof
I copied this from; http://www.refocus.org/postcult.html
Hope it helps, it sounds like your swinging around and suffering in a very normal way.
Hope you feel better soon,
Alice
After exiting a cult, an individual may experience a period of intense and often
conflicting emotions. She or he may feel relief to be out of the group, but also may feel
grief over the loss of positive elements in the cult, such as friendships, a sense of
belonging or the feeling of personal worth generated by the group's stated ideals or
mission. The emotional upheaval of the period is often characterized by "post- cult
trauma syndrome": - spontaneous crying
- sense of loss
- depression & suicidal thoughts
- fear that not obeying the cult's wishes will result in God's wrath or loss of salvation
- alienation from family, friends
- sense of isolation, loneliness due to being surrounded by people who have no basis for
understanding cult life - fear of evil spirits taking over one's life outside the cult
- scrupulosity, excessive rigidity about rules of minor importance
- panic disproportionate to one's circumstances
- fear of going insane
- confusion about right and wrong
- sexual conflicts
- unwarranted guilt
The period of exiting from a cult is usually a traumatic experience and, like any great
change in a person's life, involves passing through stages of accommodation to the change:
- Disbelief/denial: "This can't be happening. It couldn't have been that
bad." - Anger/hostility: "How could they/I be so wrong?" (hate feelings)
- Self-pity/depression: "Why me? I can't do this."
- Fear/bargaining: "I don't know if I can live without my group. Maybe I can
still associate with it on a limited basis, if I do what they want."
- Reassessment: "Maybe I was wrong about the group's being so wonderful."
- Accommodation/acceptance: "I can move beyond this experience and choose new
directions for my life" or... - Re-involvement: "I think I will rejoin the group."
Passing through these stages is seldom a smooth progression. It is fairly typical to
bounce back and forth between different stages. Not everyone achieves the stage of
accommodation / acceptance. Some return to cult life.
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You know that this sounds just like coming out of jail. It doesn't go into the sounds that you experience from coming out of jail. This maybe the only difference, sounds! I was in solitary confinement in Amsterdam for 3 weeks and had no outside experiences until leaving on a plane back to the US. When I got out of jail, due to not having my passport on my person, it felt just like I was leaving Maharaj Ji. It took me 5 years of dedication of total relaxation and going back to nature to bond with anything passive and open, green or blue for healing myself when I left Maharaj. Yes, sometimes you feel as if you are going insane, but just know that the moments do pass and things get better all by themselves. I also know that there is a happy/peaceful way to go or a very unhappy/discordant way to go. It's all our choice. Which way do I want to go? Do I have to suffer and greive or can I have the suffering behind me. I want the happy, content, and the god in me to prosper and grow. I am unable to move forward spirtually due to the my experience with Maharaj. I see this now and I wish to move forward to find the more of god in myself and others. Of course without a cult. God Blesses us each and everyday and I do see this.
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Nice to hear from you kc, sorry to hear about your passport experience, I know others who went through that. Not cool!
My experience with m seemed to cut me off from nature too.
'It took me 5 years of dedication of total relaxation and going back to
nature to bond with anything passive and open, green or blue for
healing myself when I left Maharaj ji.'
I really relate to this, I was always a nature lover, but lost the connection for many years, it's coming back now, but for some years after realising my disappointment with maharaj ji, the whole world felt dry and empty. Inside too! I'm still working my way through it.
Best wishes and heart felt empathy to all who are enduring the alienation and disorientation from their own life and environment that being a premie entails and the subsequent difficulties of rehabilitation back to normal living when the truth dawns.
Lp
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 03:27:18
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Hi kc,
I want the happy, content, and the god in me to prosper and grow. I am
unable to move forward spiritually due to my experience with Maharaj.
Shame, isn't it. Seemed like such a lovely idea,
meditating, feeling a glowing space within, going to sunny seaside towns in the
summer for events........ Shame so much fits with the 'thought reform'
strategies written about in www.refocus.org.
Listening to M just nearly always makes me feel depressed, too many obvious
manipulation devices, derogatory statements about others, ridiculous aims such
as feeling great ALL the time (the only thing that makes me feel great all the
time is knowing that I don't have to), silly contradictory statements that make
you feel sea sick until you lose all sense of yourself, swinging highs that you
know you're going to fall down from.....Absorbing typical premie behaviour makes
me more depressed!
Perhaps I could sneak into Brighton unseen, wear headphones so I couldn't hear
M and shut my eyes, hummm, it's a thought......Perhaps I should heed Nietzsche,
do I really want to allow myself to get burnt up so badly that I have to leave
in great pain.
Perhaps M could be replaced, and a new speaker instated, perhaps prems should
vote, once every four years or so, for the person they wanted to listen to.
Always prefered Charanand myself.
I see this now and I wish to move forward to find the more of god in myself
and others.
Ever thought about forgetting God, and letting the bugger find you for a
change?
Alice
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Very nicely put.
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 11:02:46
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"Ever thought about forgetting God, and letting the bugger find you for a
change?" thanks Alice.You made me smile. he used to talk about " Hide and Seek" ( " I hide and you seek " ). It was so bl###y exhausting being a premie. Running round and round and whatever you did you just couldn't win; not on any level.
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It was so bl###y exhausting being a premie. That's what I think of most about the time when I was a premie: How exhausting it was. I'm not talking only about service, either. It sapped all my energy to follow Rawat in any way. Such a relief not to be doing that anymore.
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Its bizarre how you could keep going, driven by this inner compulsion, I several times got caught in service projects and once they knew I could was asked to continue working without sleep for days, Whenever I got involved, I ended up on a 24 hr. a day 7 day a week schedule. Sometimes just going to a premie house and crashing out and then carrying on for days more.
I don't know why I did it, sometimes I was already completely disillusioned, but when my particular (limited) skills were needed and my old premie friend came round to the flap of my tent, and offered me an opportunity to do service. For some reason I always jumped at the opportunity. It made me feel wanted I guess.
Lp
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"It sapped all my energy to follow Rawat in any way" Yeah,nervous breakdown inducing nonsense.The worst part for me wasn't the service ( as you point out Cynthia),although that was bad enough as I hate cleaning and house-motherish type duties;no, the worst thing for me was having to try and realise God all the fecking time.
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I spent many years after I left Knowledge re-examining the ideas that had made me open to the possibility of "Knowledge" - oh far out I just used one of Rawat's more recent cant phrases but in a completely straightforward way. Now where was I? So for me, that study taught me that the whole spirituality concept is bullshit but that's not what you want to hear.
I recommend you try finding another group of people based around another spiritual path and form of meditation, hopefully one with a more bona fide tradition and teacher than Rawat's. There's plenty of them around in any reasonably large city and I've found that the people involved are usually very nice, inclusive and friendly and happy to greet interested people. You have a choice of Hindu, Buddhist, Christian or Sufi groups and are sure to find one in which you feel comfortable and inspired. Even within the different religious traditions there are highly variable paths. One thing I don't recommend is a group based around a charismatic leader where the possibility for abuse is high. While there must be a leader, look for a group where the leader is serving the members rather than being served.
Last night I went to a concert by Krishna Das (www.krishnadas.com) a follower of the dead guru Neem Karoli. Great music and a large proportion of the 100-150 people there were followers of a related tradition, knew the words to all the chants and sang like angels. He was friendly, funny, humble, a nice guy, approachable (he doesn't claim to be a guru) and the cheap, wholesome food was provided by followers of the hugging guru, Amma Ji.
There's a lot of good people out there and you can't go past a group of them for real, actual inspiration. Good luck.
Modified by Ocker at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 17:18:19
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"There's a lot of good people out there and you can't go pasta group of them for real, actual inspiration. Good luck."What is a "pasta group?" I like Italian cooking and am always looking for new dishes to attempt.
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Modified by Ocker at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 17:19:45
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I love your post kc. and I love this last para. of yours Lp "Best wishes and heart felt empathy to all who are enduring the alienation and disorientation from their own life and environment that being a premie entails and the subsequent difficulties of rehabilitation back to normal living when the truth dawns."
kc and Lp.Thanks both of you. Lexy.
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Hi lexy, hope you are well and enjoying the weather,
keep up the sagacious posts.
Best wishes and many thanks
Lp
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....look around a bit, read, think. The world has changed.
When we took K we were a bunch of long haired hippies
So now that it's impossible to live in Notting Hill on a salary of less than £1/2 m pa, lots of them are in Andalucia. There were many steps to take between the one & the other, & I wouldn't want to live there myself, but ya gotta hand it to those who were determined to live cheap & grow their own dope. They've even lucked out now they're entering the drop zone, in that the Spanish Health Service is superior to the NHS in many ways.
So where did the seperation come from that allowed some premies to stay with K and some to leave
'Allowed' is the wrong word, & I'm not being picky here, or maybe I am, you decide. I don't have a soundbite answer to this, but there's no authority, either higher or lower, which can regulate the whys & wherefores of what people believe. Sure they can try, but it's doomed to failure.
Was Milkey and Glen dishonest from the start
What does this mean? No more than you or I were surely. How often did you hype up the benefits of getting connected to the infinite, to your friends, family, & passing strangers, whilst knowing that there was a way to go yet, before you became a realised soul.
I did.
Where did the control come from
Right from the top. It's no mystery. This is what happens when a shed load of people believe someone is God, or pretty close to it, as was the case with Hitler, Stalin, Mao tse Tung etc. It's ok, I've come to terms with the realisation that had I been born in Germany in 1910, I would probably have been a convinced Nazi. I suggest you ponder on this too.
Does anyone believe that suffering is not being caused by M and His K
You're preaching to the converted here.
Is there no recognition by those who are in power that there is suffering going on in the mission
If you mean the Home Office & the Charities Commission in the UK, then you're attributing supernatural powers to bureaucrats. Please don't encourage the bastards. If you mean those who are in power in the cult, since when has it ever been about you...........it's about heeem, or did I misunderstand all these years. Incidently, it has been alleged that most of the unpaid staff who do the donkey work for EV(UK) are in receipt of Incapacity Benefit, so presumably they know all about it too.
What is the use of having a bank without money, it just becomes an empty building
Useless to the depositors I agree, but to the owner it's still valuable real estate.
I mean we are dealing with educated people here
I'm not so sure about that. I'm 55 & am even further from being the Renaissance man I thought I was at 20.
Are the great people of history who tried to bring learning and
compassion, and in some cases died for their beliefs, to mankind to
be swept under the carpet
Like I say, you need to get out more. No-one in the wider world beyond the followers of Guru Maharaj Ji, would have a clue as to what you meant by this. There's a book which I recommend to you. Daniel J. Boorstin : The Discoverers; a history of man's search to know his world & himself.
Am I a rat, a whistle blower, not flying the flag for king and country.....no
Love, Loyalty, & Omerta. These are things which interest me greatly & which are interconnected; maybe you could explain what you think. I see Rawat as someone who has broken Omerta with me, so fuck him.
If you want to know what Omerta really is, stand up straight.
Is M dishonest time will give the answer
Time's out already.
Am I suffering because of M
Obviously
Do I get answers from M .
Has anyone.
Is it my right to seek answers.....yes
Welcome to the real world.
Would I take K again.
How the fuck would I know. Would you take LSD again.
I
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Many people who came to Rawat were indeed 'seekers after Truth' in that they believed in a Truth with a capital 'T' and that Rawat was/is the owner. The people that left(95+%) saw the lie or got nothing out of it and continue(d) in their search.
Certainly here in the UK, I have met many who have been premies and many other things on their search. Many are surprised that he is still around.
The people that stay don't actually want any Truth and are quite comfortable in their little clique, which is what it is.
They don't even necessarily like Rawat. As one said to me recently, 'I know it's a cult but there are much worst cults out there'. He will just continue to milk those he can.
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Posts full of wisdom, intelligence, and insight -- and so well written. I love learning new things every day. That's real knowledge.
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 14:16:22
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ISoT,
You bet it is! It's right in front of your eyes and if you want to know it, if you have the desire to know it or just a passing interest in knowing it....... go to school! There is no doubt of the worth and "truths" of the physical world. It's where we are, it's what we perceive every day and there are many things to "know," if we have the desire to know. There are some sciences that don't interest me, much. I know something of them because it was required, but my goal(s) were elsewhere. That doesn't make them any less worthy of attention, they just don't interest me. Then there is my "specialty," which is way beyond interesting to me....... I MUST know "evrything" there is to know about astrophysics. I'll never know everything, of course, but I do want to and that keeps my interest fresh and my mind keen. It isn't "painful" to want to know everything there is to know about something that really captures your mind. That is a lie told to us by the guru's of the world. I don't experience "pain" due to lack of knowing...... I experience the joy of discovery and striving to discover. Boredom is painful. Sitting under a blankey and never receiving and answer to anything is painful. Listening to rawat IS PAINFUL! But, gathering astrophysical knowledge is NOT painful. If it is, then it is a delightful pain. I cannot wait for new discoveries to be revealed. I live for that. We are not wasting our time, as humans, if we gather this knowledge and pass it on to our children. So they now have a foundation upon which to build even further. The next Einstein IS out there. Maybe the next one will be in the medical field. We won't know unless we continue to discover and teach what we learn to our children. If there IS one constant in this universe, I believe it is that any real intelligence will strive to know everything there is to know about the universe..... and will have a ball doing so. It's in our very nature to be curious. Most animals are curious, some more than others, but it is a shared trait. I think our negative attitudes toward striving, for whatever we are striving, originate with the lazy. I think rawat is one of the laziest people around. I think gurus are ALL the laziest people around. They don't want to have to learn anything and they spread that slobbish venom everywhere they go. They try to convince others that asking questions and learning are a "waste of our time." Oh really, Mr. Guru? Then what would you have us do, sit under blankets sucking on our tongues and pretending we are tasting god and being "grateful" that you taught us how to sit under a blankey? YEAH..... RIGHT! ISoT, if I were to have one piece of advice, it would be to shake off the malaise, as much as you possibly can, and to find the thing that really trips your trigger...... and go for it! It is never too late to learn and it is never too late to pass on that which you have learned. I didn't receive my PhD until I was over 50 years of age. Do you think I am upset by that? Not in the slightest...... I'm happy enough to have attained that at all. Think of all those "old folks" who never went to college, decided to return to school and finally got their degree. Do you think they are unhappy with it taking the time it did? Not a chance. They are happy to have attained it at all! Why dwell on what you cannot change....... I know that I am sounding like a broken record here..... never mind the "should haves and could haves!" Concentrate on the "What will be's!" What WILL be? Whatever you want! You have your life back and you can do whatever you wish to do. So....... do it! The first step is the hardest and you have already taken that one! You want some "truth?" If you have a gold band on your finger or a piece of gold hanging around your neck, know this: A star died a violent death to make that happen. That is where ALL elements heavier than iron come from...... the violent death of a star. That piece of gold on your finger used to be a star! THAT, my friend, is the truth and you can take it to the bank (pun intended)! Anyone else care to share some other interesting "truths" with ISoT? I'd love to hear them
Modified by NAR at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 16:53:41
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That is one helluva post there NAR.
I know he's a hard act to follow, but seriously anyone, we'd all love to hear from you.
Thanks for these comments, so far, and for the questions Insearch.
Modified by LP at Fri, Jun 30, 2006, 16:03:48
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Thanks Nar, what a great post
Alice
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