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"You were given the greatest gift by Maharaji and you chose to turn against it. Your obvious sufferings are proof of the consequences of your own actions." If I was a wavering premie and read that, it would either make me scrared to leave or make me run a mile.
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Maharaji has sacrificed his life to bring peace to anyone who asks for it.
Sacrificed his life? If living in his Malibu Shangrila or any of his ultra-luxurious digs around the world, staying in five-star resorts, and flying around in own personal executive jet is sacrifice then I guess former ashramees like us just didn't get it.
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"Sacrificed his life? If living in his Malibu Shangrila or any of his ultra-luxurious digs around the world, staying in five-star resorts, and flying around in own personal executive jet is sacrifice then I guess former ashramees like us just didn't get it." Exactly,Dr Wow.Hardly a crucifixion !
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This is a spoof, right? I haven't stopped laughing long enough to read the rest of the post properly. By my sainted aunt, if it isn't that 'respect' thing once again, Jim. It is surely your Achilles heel, bejaysus... Have you tried looking within? If you did, I bet you'd find Jossi has got there first and edited out your nastiest inclinations... No, but it is a spoof, surely...? If not, is it something you could present as verifiable evidence of Rawat's philosophy and treatment of ex-followers for the Wikipedia record? Note: Linda is speaking *officially* on behalf of M. Linda is not Maharaji, but Linda is greater than Maharaji because she can show you Maharaji! Lol! 
Modified by Nigel at Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 18:38:53
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'Maharaji has sacrificed his life to bring peace to anyone who asks for it.' It's on public record and attributable (President of Elan Vital, 1997). Hey, guys, let's not be shy. Shout it from the rooftops...
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The answer to all your problems lies within. LOL !
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Here's to the light that lies in Maharaji's eyes, and lies and lies and lies...
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 16:27:56
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And a question... What Lies Beneath You? (Crap movie, IMO, Michelle Pfeiffer notwithstanding,) Bugger all, I suspect, in Rawat's case. Unless, in reference to the above mentioned movie, you count moldering corpses.
Modified by moley at Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 17:02:00
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...premie fervor moments, I cannot IMAGINE being that arrogant and insulting to anyone, for any reason, but most especially within the arena of knowledge!!!!! Not to say I wasn't judgemental in my mind at times, and inclined to act a bit snooty to some poor souls who thought they knew more than our beloved "Master"--but I still would never have written or said anything this hateful! And WE are the ones called "a hate group"???!!! ~Shelagh
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and for the last 9 years you've taken no notice. You've no repsect for those who deserve it, your sufferings are obvious, you're thoroughly disreputable,you should be ashamed of yourself,you've done nothing in your sad, miserable life and you haven't even looked within. You're gonna burn, burn, burn... a toasted, rotten vegetable...that's all. : )
Modified by Dermot at Wed, Mar 08, 2006, 17:37:48
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Jim,
Either way, but especially if this was an EV headed letter, it needs to be scanned and published somewhere, probably on EPO. And could the phrase 'thoroughly disreputable person' be grounds for libel? I thought you were less than 14.27% disreputable. 
John.
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John, It must have been an email as I don't recall ever getting any hard copy from Linda. And, by the date, this must have been before I struck up a short-lived friendship with Linda. I'm trying to find the newsgroup post. Haven't yet but I did find this, the very first internet ex-premie post, I think:  | Anyone got any scuttlebut on the ex-Lord? Someone told me that he's back into claiming divinity (he quit a bit after the Jonestown shit). I'd love to find some official contact point for him. Even unofficial. Got a few questions for him.... |
| In article <3170497E. ...@islandnet.com>, jim heller <hel ...@islandnet.com> wrote: >Anyone got any scuttlebut on the ex-Lord? Someone told me that he's
>back into claiming divinity (he quit a bit after the Jonestown shit).
>I'd love to find some official contact point for him. Even unofficial.
> Got a few questions for him....
Is this the Guru Maharaji who got married to an airline stewardess several years his senior and was deposed as Lord of the Universe by his mother? Wonder what did happen to him? Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
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| yes, same one. But how many fat little Lords do you want? |
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This was from February, 1996. "Unlimited", of course, is Katie Darling: | Me again. Looking for someone who remembers and wants to talka bout, think about, laugh about and ponder the once-infamous, now apparently all-but-forgotten Guru Maharaj Ji. Anyone out there?
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| Yes, I'd like to talk about it. I tried to talk about it on the "Premies" noticeboard on aol and they actually had my posts removed by the aol authorities and sent me hate mail. I was with Guru Maharaji for 12 years from 1971. I escaped in 1983/4 and
have since worked as a therapist and done a lot of study of cults and
leaders to heal myself and others. It's one of the subtler cons out there
in my opinion. I have a lot more to say about it, but would like to hear
some of your experience to get me going. I have a friend who lived with
him for years who has direct experiences of his abusiveness that would
make your hair curl. My experience was more indirect, but not totally so,
as I was "employed" by his organization for years. My purpose in wanting
to talk about it is that it seems to be one of the most obfuscated cults,
coated in sugary sweetness still, yet a lot of people I know of have
suffered terribly and have no way of really getting validated.
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>Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack! This can only be the guy who soon after created the strange but wonderful 'Church of the Subgenius' website. So he's an ex-premie? It kind of figures..
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Thanks for starting all this Jim. It is your greatest work. And thanks for being such a fierce forum busybody, especially during the first years when we were really plagued by constant premies who would not let up. I do believe I recall that linda message. That of course means he, thanks to you, gave us his message. And linda, catching the full weight of the narcissists distain for us, dumped her own condecension
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That's it isn't it? You're not worthy - a useless piece of crap. An ungrateful ingrate. Maharji is great, you are nothing. How dare you Jim? I remember that guilt-tripping, trying to put you in your foot-kissing, butt-licking, grovelling, subservient place . . . sends shivers up my chakras
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Ever since I found that old post from LindaG I've been trying to make sense of what's what. I kind of recall writing a letter to Maharaji. I joke around but never lie about stuff like that. But what confused me so was the response from LindaG. I didn't think anything much of it at the time but, if that really was her, this was the same Linda Gross that I actually became a bit friendly with a few years later. Funny how I never put two-and-two together, although she must have -- I assume. Anyway, I couldn't find the initial post with my letter in it. The archives start right then but just a tiny bit later. What I did find, though, was LindaG's later post, also on April 12, 1997, which, if that's really her, is kind of funny as hell. This, folks, is the voice of the President of Elan Vital: Date: Sun, Apr 13, 1997 at 16:55:19 (EDT)
Poster: Linda G
Email:
To: London UK
Subject: Re: Mr Hellers reply
Message:
Mr Hitler (sorry Heller) doesn't need apologists like you defending his actions. He spends all his time criticising Maharaji in a most unpleasant manner. I know Maharaji and he is naturally very upset by the tone and content of Mr Heller's words. Maharaji has a mission to bring peace to the world. Anyone who is not for him must be against him. In time, we shall inherit the earth. Then Mr Heller should hide from the wrath of Maharaji. Yet there will be no hiding place for people like you, Heller. Maharaji is the greatest incarnation of God ever to walk this earth. You should be very careful who you cross. All actions have consequences, Mr Hitler. LG
Related link: http://www.ex-premie3.org/archives/archive.cgi?arch=f1a1e#F1A1P5
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I'm starting to think that what happened was that I mailed, faxed or emailed Rawat this letter (I can't remember which) and I also posted it on our fledgling forum then. I got no response from Rawat personally but suddenly this LindaG person shows up and, as far as I can tell, posts the two posts I've put up here. One reason why I think this really was Linda Gross is that, if it was a spoof, the person would have likely used Linda's full name. This was a little too subtle. The other reason is that the answer itself doesn't seem all that funny. Well, yes, it does to those of us who think the whole Rawat business is funny to begin with but, if it was a spoof it would have been by an ex, not a premie, and an ex would have been more flamboyant. No, my money's on this being the real Linda Gross in which case, this is great. This is a real honest-to-Speaker indirect message to me from the Speaker himself. Hm?
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After studying that archive page, LG's post doesn't look like a spoof. Bear in mind the person she was talking to ('London UK') was him/herself replying to the original Linda Gross who we know to be true, and the tone is pretty much the same. A spoof would be definitely be more OTT. If anything, she appears to be holding back a little, since London UK looks like a still-practising premie trying to defend Jim's right to express his feelings. (Aah - those were the days, eh?): >Mr Heller is evidently going through a lot of anger and has obviously lost his respect for the time being. Because of this, LG, took care to show her anger was directed at Jim specifically (for upsetting her precious Maharaji) and not others on the forum - an important distinction I think, and not something a spoof poster would bother with. Also LG promptly disappears - perhaps because of the number of premies ticking her off for her choice of language, which she immediately regretted? Surely a hoaxer would stick around and keep the fun going a little longer.
Modified by Nigel at Fri, Mar 10, 2006, 04:41:04
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when you posted the first email, I was really fascinated by it. Now with this second one though, it takes on a whole new dimension. I agree that the author is neither an experienced dissologist nor spoofologist.
In fact one might go so far as to say this person is suffering from stunted diss-velopment, a common side-effect of cult membership, where the science of sarcasm has been lost behind years of prolonged glazed eye training. Of course I was an exception to this and almost got thrown out of the ashram for it I can imagine. Hitler – Heller, what a cad! That's first grade level dissology (when we used to replace the words to the pledge of allegance with Nazi references.)
Well here is what I thought of the first letter. It sounded like a wife or mother or sister or friend being protective of a dear loved one who had been hurt and lashing out at the perceived perpetrator of that hurt. So I'm thinking that our Prem must have been doing some of his own surfing back then and really been upset by what you were saying. Momma Linda was just doing what a momma does, protecting her babies. I guess Rawat must have been shocked to been getting such in your face diss from his own former followers. He is obviously neurotically sensitive to criticism anyway, which he has shown often enough, but perhaps up until that point he hadn't actually heard it from insiders, and couldn't so easily brush it off as ignorance.
Modified by aunt bea at Fri, Mar 10, 2006, 06:12:46
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If no one replies to your post, do it yourself.
I was just thinking, maybe Prem thought up that Hitler "joke". Being that the Elan Vital President is supposed to be a vessel of her master's wishes and therefore not supposed to have an original thought.
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everything Linda said about you Jim is true. Actually now I'm just trying to see how many posts I have to make to get this thread to go to the top of the page.
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But I do think Jim, you have finally recieved the personal attention from Rawat you craved as a premie. Can you imagine how your premie self would have felt if he had know you were going to grow up and be Rawat's most vocal critic? But I thought after reading the first one she must have discussed you with the Golden One himself.
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John, Does a webmaster's view of the forum archive allow you to compare the IP addresses of the two LG posts, in the way an FA used to be able to for live posts?
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Sorry, no. All ip address information was removed when the forums were archives. The only information available is what you see.
John.
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as follows: Hi Linda, It's been a while now but I sincerely hope you're well. That's a nice picture of you on your website and the whole site looks good. I haven't bothered trying to communicate with you for years now, just as you asked. It's too bad, really, because, our obvious differences over Maharaji aside, I enjoyed our chats while they lasted. I trust you felt likewise. In fact, I appreciate your efforts at the time to facilitate some contact between me and Maharaji. Oh well, eh? Anyway, I'm writing with a specific question. Way back at the start of the ex-premie online activity, I sent Maharaji a letter. He never replied personally but it appears had you do so for him, on the ex-premie forum. On April 12, 1997, someone posting under the name "LindaG" wrote: Maharaji has asked me to point out the following: - He has not written anything on the internet. Anyone pretending to impersonate him should know that we will issue legal proceedings should we discover the culprit.
- You should not expect any response to any of your questions unless you treat him with the respect he deserves.
- You were given the greatest gift by Maharaji and you chose to turn against it. Your obvious sufferings are proof of the consequences of your own actions.
Mr. Heller, you are a thoroughly disreputable person and should be ashamed of yourself. Maharaji has sacrificed his life to bring peace to anyone who asks for it. What have you ever done in your sad, miserable life? We would appreciate if if you would refrain from attempting to contact us again. The answer to all your problems lies within. Look there. Linda
What's so strange is that, as far as I remember, this was before you and I actually started talking with one another but I never put tow-and-two together to realize that you were the one who'd replied on his behalf back then. In fact, there was one other post from "LindaG" which was in reply to an a premie apparently trying to excuse my seeming rudeness: Date: Sun, Apr 13, 1997 at 16:55:19 (EDT)
Poster: Linda G
Email:
To: London UK
Subject: Re: Mr Hellers reply
Message:
Mr Hitler (sorry Heller) doesn't need apologists like you defending his actions. He spends all his time criticising Maharaji in a most unpleasant manner. I know Maharaji and he is naturally very upset by the tone and content of Mr Heller's words. Maharaji has a mission to bring peace to the world. Anyone who is not for him must be against him. In time, we shall inherit the earth. Then Mr Heller should hide from the wrath of Maharaji. Yet there will be no hiding place for people like you, Heller. Maharaji is the greatest incarnation of God ever to walk this earth. You should be very careful who you cross. All actions have consequences, Mr Hitler. LG
Linda, I don't really hold this against you personally. I think you were just being defensive of Maharaji whom you love dearly and against whom you saw me acting so admittedly disrespectfully. I would just like to know, if you'd be willing to say, if Maharaji himself said any of these things or this was just you venting a little. Did you really talk with him about me? I guess, even more fundamentally, were you really the author of these two posts? I trust that you'll be truthful as always. Thanks much. Sincerely, Jim
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