premies, aspirants, independent observers: ex-premies are everywhere & different!
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Posted by:
Mick ®

02/27/2006, 15:44:50
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Dear premies, aspirants, independent observers: ex-premies are everywhere and different!

I state this self-evident truth, because if one were only to view the spin-doctored, revisionist, self-serving official Prem Rawat cult sites and loyal party-line devotee/student cult sites, or peruse the cult's daily manipulation of Wikipedia-related items, one might mistakenly surmise that 'ex-premies' were some kind of generic, monolithic counter-cult, and a calculating bunch of apostates full of hate, at that.

Not true.

For instance, I hadn't posted on this forum again until recently (not since way back last year). The only time I even associate with any 'ex-premies' is when I post on this forum, email some old friends, or chat with (or see) a few friends I've known for many years (outside the cult), who have also left the cult way behind in the dust of the rear-view mirrors of their lives. When I was a premie, though, most of my friends were premies - especially in the cult's first decade in the West. Nowadays, almost all of my friends (and personal contacts) are people who have never had anything to do with Prem Rawat or his cult.

On the contrary, active Prem Rawat cultists go to regular cult programs, videos, Prem speaker events, and they do think of themselves as his 'students', or rather most still regard themselves as Prem's - or more honestly, "Maharaji's" - devotees or "premies." It is only natural, then, that in such a cult mind-set, they regard and define any contrary expression within the confines of their own defensive cultist terms and narrow perspective, which is based upon the cult-indoctrinated belief system. Let's look at that, for a quick moment.

"Ex-premie," a brief etymology: It was "premies" themselves who first started designating people who left the cult as "ex-premies." I remember this very clearly. Premies I knew would do this all the time, in a derogatory, disparaging fashion. It started in the mid-1970s. Anybody who left the cult - boom - now, they're an 'ex-premie.' Watch out for them, don't hang out with them; they're a bad influence. Be careful, if you do! However, many premies had ex-premie friends - people who had left the cult, no longer worshipped and followed the Guru Maharaj ji, or had simply stopped practicing Service, Satsang, and Meditation. Furthermore, lots of people were friends before they had any contact with the maha, and they have remained friends through the years, regardless.

Then, in the late 1990s, something changed; the internet really took off and gained worldwide popularity. The first websites critiquing Maharaji aka Prem Rawat appeared. Prem, himself a computer and tech addict, curiously warned his devotees not to go onto the internet. He warned about "flaming," etc. He did everything he could to formally indicate his distinct disapproval of the internet, as a total waste of time for all his sincere believers/followers. Why? What was he afraid of? Was he afraid his devotees would discover substantive facts and testimony that would irrevocably undermine their faith in him - and affect the mega flow of those all-important monetary contributions, too?

In spite of his warnings, curious premies began exploring the internet. When search engines appeared, people would type in Maharaji's various names, and so forth. As thousands of people who had ever been involved in the Prem personality mind-control cult began reading and exploring the initial and growing body of information posted then, increasingly countless devotees and former devotees began sharing relevant information, documents and other evidence, experiences, concerns etc., regarding a cult involvement that, for many, had lasted decades.

This information, and the volumes of factual material and evidence thereby gathered and published on the internet, became a visible threat to Prem's ongoing operations --- the most direct outside threat to his recruitment and retention of cult members, and to the constant fund-raising necessary to support his luxurious lifestyle (under the deceitful guise of 'non-profit' organizations, various projects, and "propagation").

In the late 1990s, in my own contacts with Elan Vital operatives at the Rawat cult organization's California headquarters, they routinely referred to www.ex-premie.org as ex-premie.hate. In fact, the official cult line was to stereotype and stigmatize - and even demonize - ex-premies as a "hate" group. This was promoted - and has continued - as official Rawat cult policy. The cult has waged a concerted cyber and legal war against any and all public critics of Prem Rawat. Prem Rawat and his cult feel clearly threatened by the truth - by information that contradicts his claims, by facts that reveal his lies and the revisionist lies of his organizations and representatives, and by the damning testimony of literally hundreds of former cult members concerned only to warn others and expose the many lies and wanton abuses of Rawat and his deceitfully presented personality cult.

To reiterate: the reason why Prem's organizational culties label 'ex-premies' as a hate cult is because they, themselves, are in a CULT, and thinking as cult members, when they encounter anti-cult activism and consciousness-raising on any substantive issues, they can ONLY try to comprehend it in cultist terms. They are trapped within a cult that disparages critical thinking and have thereby been socialized to be incapable of legitimate intelligent critical reasoning, on any subject relating to their Lord [er guru, er Master, er motivational speaker, whatever...]. Those faculties are impaired, due to the brain-washing of the Prem personality cult and its sinister mind control indoctrination. We were taught by Rawat, as devotees, NOT to think, not to listen to "Mr. Mind." "Never leave room for doubt." To be "in one's Mind," was a monumental put-down. The devotees all bought into this doctrine; it was ritualized and put into daily practice, as a tenet of the religion.

Now, regarding so-called ex-premies. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ex-premies - perhaps millions worldwide. Most people who ever came to him have rejected him, and moved on. That includes those who post on critical forums - whether rarely, occasionally, or even regularly. Those persons who do post regularly on the forum do so for their own diverse reasons - as a Public Service, for the sake of those still entrapped in the cult, to communicate with those who likewise have ever been affected by the cult, and simply for the sake of camaraderie and friendly banter on many related subjects (philosophy, science, spirituality, cults, etc.), and so forth. Each poster has her/his own reasons and personal perspectives, philosophy, politics, avocations...

A careful review of the ex-premie forum archives reveals many different viewpoints by posters, as well as constant debates, arguments, and personal expressions -- all of which vary according to each individual (and personality). There is NO doctrine, no single mind-set, no catechism, no unitary theory, no group belief system. There are no meetings, no 'official' organizations, no paid employees, no publications, no fund-raising tours, no guru aka master, no heirarchy, etc. All this stands in direct contrast to the actual group-think endemic and central to the Rawat cult indoctrination and modus operandi.

The archives of the various ex-premie forums since the late 1990s are characterized by "diversity" - of people, personal philosophies, testimonies, and their views vis a vis the Prem Rawat personality religious cult. These ex-premie forum archives include (among others): the former president of Rawat's official organization, other top officers, his personal financial manager, his appointed instructors of the so-called "Knowledge," his office personnel, his personal staff, his event managers, his spokespersons, his ashram officials, ashram members, premie [Prem devotee] householders, spouses of premies, families of premies, premie children and women who were sexually molested by Rawat's instructors, aspirants, persons who attended at least one (or more) of his programs, persons who have escaped from other similar religious guru worship mind-control cults, persons never in a cult who nevertheless enjoy the intellectual discussions to be found on the ex-premie forums, and of course - innumerable premies themselves who have initially come to the forums (in various guises) to preach and defend their guru Lord - or premies seeking relief and answers to long-suppressed questions and doubts about Prem Rawat and his operations.

In point of fact, many current ex-premies first discovered the truth about Prem Rawat (Guru Maharaj ji aka Maharaji) by reading the files at www.ex-premie.org and then the various ex-premie forums - when they were still "premies" [devotees aka Prem's students]. Indeed, the ex-premie websites and forums have served as vital humanitarian catalysts that have helped awaken countless Rawat devotees/students - human beings who have consequently freed themselves from the layers of cult-induced delusions, the "maya" of guru servitude and guru-related superstitions.

The term "ex-premie" is therefore utilized by former cult members, in this context, primarily only because that was the very term premies themselves used to label those who had left, fallen away from the faith of the alleged 'true believers', in an obvious attempt to draw a distinction (with judgmental connotations) between the 'saved' and the 'backsliders' [or apostates]. Rawat's and his devotees' behavior is typical of all cults, and it is yet further indication that, yes, they are indeed part of a cult.

The Rawat organizations' and [his] representatives' continued attempts to demonize and harass the cult critics, including filing frivolous lawsuits, waging unlawful cyber terrorism on websites which criticize Rawat and his cult, physically stalking and intimidating witnesses in some cases, attempting to censor and historically professionally, legally, or physically harm journalists (including attempted murder, not by just by Rawat's "students" but by top cult officials - including an instructor) all serve to underline that this sinister cult engages (and has historically engaged) in a campaign of terrorism against outspoken Rawat cult critics.

I submit this statement to the world regarding the true nature of Prem Rawat's cult and his representatives' attempts to paint his critics - and lump all ex-premies - into a small corner with a poisoned paintbrush of the Rawat cult's own choosing. In fact, the Rawat cult's coordinated campaign against so-called ex-premies is "terrorism." Unless this campaign -especially the computer hacking and personal stalking and intimidation - stops, I would urge any and all governments of the world - including the United Nations - to classify the Prem Rawat cult and its organizations and representatives as "Terrorists" (with a capital "T").

Realistically, if Prem Rawat and his cult wish such criticism to ever cease, then he must at least initiate something along the lines of the following:
1) first, formally and publicly renounce any and all claims he has ever made, and apologize to all followers, past and present, for his behavior and rote "cheat and deceit";
2) dissolve his entire cult apparatus, and turn over all organizational financial records to independent auditors and investigators;
3) assist legal authorities in apprehending Jagdeo and other criminals hidden by the cult;
4) sell the properties and tangible assets of all the shell corporations set up (and put the money generated in a trust for subsequent disbursement to all former and present cult members, and those directly harmed by his cult);
5) allow independent auditors and investigators to assess the total amount of contributions made worldwide since he proclaimed himself to be the "guru" [aka "Master" ], and legally take custodial control over all related bank accounts;
and
6) disburse/reimburse all these accumulated funds proportionately (for instance: 10% to sexual abuse victims; 30% to former ashram members; and 60% to all other documented financial donors [worldwide since 1971], based upon amount of individual contributions made).

Until then, there will Always be a huge pool of understandably outraged 'ex-premies' - and among those persons, definitely a number who are, and shall remain (and those in the future), justifiably vigilant public critics of this insidious phony religious cult and its megalomaniacal charismatic leader, Prem Rawat.

Sincerely,

Mick, a lover of life, liberty, and honesty






Modified by Mick at Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 19:37:02

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Warning to posters here
Re: premies, aspirants, independent observers: ex-premies are everywhere & different! -- Mick Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Will ®

02/27/2006, 17:42:26
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This post by Mick seems a good place to post this warning.  I learned today that my employer received a letter of complaint about my posting on this forum.  They received the letter a couple weeks ago.

I was not told who wrote the letter but I got the impression that it seemed official and possibly from church headquarters.  I can't be sure it was Elan Vital, it could have been any individual premie, as far as I know.

The letter included printed copies of every post I have made here in the last year.  It was quite a large stack and evidently I have been posting more than I realized.  I figured it was only five or six posts a month.

The letter was read by my supervisor, by the director, and by an official in the university's vice chancellor's office.  They determined that the actual content of my posts was of no interest or concern, but I was asked to make more judicious use of company time.

Other details about the situation I don't want to reveal.  I simply want to warn people here that there is a continued and detailed monitoring of posts and posters of this forum.

I will be getting a computer at home and will post here at that time.  I consider this forum to be a fair critical medium guaranteed by common civil rights.  I do concur with Mick's post.







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Chilling free speech
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Marianne ®

02/27/2006, 19:23:27
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Will: Thank you for this post. You are not the only person who has been attacked like this. There are a number of others. I think it is time to have a place where these letters can be posted in order to show that the cult is doing everything it can to attack those that dare speak out about their experiences.

This is particularly interesting since one premie who has been actively involved in trying to stifle free speech is just now trumpeting his seeming commitment to the same.

Marianne







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You sure as hell didn't deserve this, did you?
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jim ®

02/27/2006, 19:44:02
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Will,

I would hope that your employers just shook their heads at this crass intimidation ploy.  In fact, I hope they read your thoughtful posts and actually learned something!  And I hope as well that they show you who did this because this kind of harrassment deserves no protective shadows. 

Well, it's all grist for the mill, isn't it?  What an ugly, stupid little cult!  Can't fight on the merits so tries to simply stifle its critics.  As I said to Jossi in a fit of pique last month, at the end of the day I just have to remind myself that he/they bear the biggest curse.  They have to continue to worship that idiot, spend all that time watching him say nothing, all that boredom, all that nothingness.  Yeah, the joke's on them, no doubt about it.







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Sorry to hear that Will
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
aunt bea ®

02/28/2006, 03:51:53
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and glad that it didn't seem to cause you any real harm. In the immortal words of my dear high school friend Scott, "Asswipes!"


The thing is that you really don't post that much here, and, as Jim said, maybe it works in your favour, in the sense that at least you are doing something socially constructive rather than just surfing on Ebay, and your posts are always intelligent and well thought out. That should count for something.






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Will, I'm really sorry to hear that...
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Dermot ®

02/28/2006, 05:48:09
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in fact, to be honest, it makes me feel bloody angry.The lengths some of those, tied mentally and emotionally in some master/slave agreement with prem Rawat,will go to is just unbelievable.

Had it been directed at anyone it would have been just as sick and pathetic but to someone such as yourself, too? I mean you are always so inclusive, outreaching and .....well, what other words fits.... just so consistently decent.

I hope the storm will pass, if there is one, and hope there's no long term damage to your good self. Most of all, though,I hope you get to find out just who it was who played such a dirty, lowdown, mean, cowardly trick on you.

Knowing you, though, you'll be more lenient with them/him or her than they actually deserve.

Cheers

Dermot






Modified by Dermot at Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 05:57:09

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Re: Will, I'm really sorry to hear that...
Re: Will, I'm really sorry to hear that... -- Dermot Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jethro ®

02/28/2006, 07:01:30
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"Knowing you, though, you'll be more lenient with them/him or her than they actually deserve"

 Hehe I would boil them alive in charnamarit mixed with marmite....







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Re: Warning to posters here
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
13 ®

02/28/2006, 06:04:22
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Sorry to hear this Will.

However, I am not sure why you were not told who sent the letter to your employers. I think you would might have been better to refuse to acknowledge the complaint, since the identity of the sender was withheld from you. Having to handle accusations from anonymous sources sounds Kafka-esque. Did you get an explanation of why your employer was keeping the identity of your accuser secret? How could they justify this?








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That's appalling, even by the 'amoral' devotee yardstick...
Re: Re: Warning to posters here -- 13 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Nigel ®

02/28/2006, 11:34:38
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Agreed, 13.

Will's posts here have always been measured, intelligent and humane. I don't remember any intemperate rages of the kind 'one' regrets the next morning!  And I'm sure his university bosses are not the least embarrased about their good name.  Will can only have done them proud, if they were sufficiently interested to check out the whole EPO story.  And that's to Will's credit, and maybe the saving grace here (unfortunate choice of expression?). But only accidentally so.  What these compassionless idiot cult morons have done would be no less appalling if Will's forum track record was more aggressive, less temperate... 

It stinks of Scientology tactics where the end - however barmy - justifies the means - however disgusting.  Hubbard's gang have succeeding in getting their own exes and critics fired from jobs through the power of their financial and legal muscle.

My suspicion on why the complainant's name was withheld is that the complainant himself/herself withheld it.   Why else would the university decline to offer it?  But a stack of anonymously-sourced evidence is still evidence if verifiable, ie., time, dates that indicate Will was posting in university time, maybe? 

(Ha-ha! - As if academics tucked up in their offices have ever watched the clock and worked a strict nine-to-five!  When I was at Liverpool Uni a premie troll on Forum 5 threatened to alert my department to my guru 'hate-group' activites.  Fortunately, half of them knew about it already and the other half wouldn't have given a tinker's cuss - but maybe that's just psychology departments for you, where staff are half-crazy by definition.) 

Will hinted there was more to this story than he could say right now, so it's probably not helpful to speculate too much.  But - God - what a pile of slimy, ass-licking, obnoxious creeps Rawat has in his service. Yeuch!  

Have they really no shame?






Modified by Nigel at Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 14:16:17

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yes very ugly sorry that happened Will
Re: That's appalling, even by the 'amoral' devotee yardstick... -- Nigel Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Susan ®

02/28/2006, 12:27:38
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Just remember that what you are doing here is a good thing.






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Take is a compliment, Will
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Joe ®

02/28/2006, 13:56:29
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It just means the cult thinks you are quite effective in what you say, and I would add my own agreement to that  I think thoughtful analysis of the cult and its belief system is the thing that upsets the cult the most, because it encourages thinking, which is lethal to the cult.  Hence, they try to shut you up.

Like Jim said, your employer might be very impressed by what you posted on this forum -- if they value employees who think and write well, as most do and that's what your posts always display.  Maybe the derranged cultist did you a favor, who knows?

Anyhow, like Marianne said, this isn't the first time Rawat cult members have contacted employers of ex-premies to harass them in their employment situations.  This is what cults DO, and the Rawat cult is no exception.






Modified by Joe at Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 13:58:05

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Re: Warning to posters here
Re: Warning to posters here -- Will Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
PatD ®

02/28/2006, 15:54:19
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That must have left a very nasty taste Will,  & I sympathise.  It's always a shock when one is on the receiving end of some braindead's malice, even though of course, one is aware that there are plenty of them around.

I think it's important that when you've digested the implications of this ,  & worked out the best  way of approaching your employers,  given  that technically  you  were ' in the wrong',  that you find out exactly  who sent the letter, get a copy of it & then decide the best course of action, or indeed inaction.

This kind of intimidation, which uses the rulebook against freespeech, relies partly for its effect on the confusion sown in the mind of the recipient.

I'm sure that whatever your response is to this, it will be entirely appropriate, & that's a good thing all round.

Many years ago, I & several other employees found ourselves at the mercy of a boss who happened to be a senior officer in another cult. This guy was the nastiest motherfucker I've ever come across in a civilised relationship, & had us all at our wits end.  Anyway, my good friend & colleague Sgt X, USMC (retd) eventually fixed him good..............

As Mick so rightly says, there is no template which fits the one time followers of the malibu megalomaniac, & I mention the above only to make the point that those who so self righteously seek to damage others in the cause of the Lord of the Universe, might consider that individuals differ in their reactions.

Unfortunately, these are not always appropriate.

.






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Another well-written, interesting post, Mick -- thanks
Re: premies, aspirants, independent observers: ex-premies are everywhere & different! -- Mick Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Jim ®

02/27/2006, 19:36:48
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Can't disagree with any of it.  I especially like your structured settlement proposal. 






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Re: thanks - you're welcome, sir
Re: Another well-written, interesting post, Mick -- thanks -- Jim Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Mick ®

02/27/2006, 21:26:10
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and

To Charles... et al:

Greetings!

Of course, if this most kind and gracious offer of settlement is not accepted in the most timely manner, then these simple civil terms are naturally subject at any time henceforth to change, and also encompass more criminal indictments in the respective nations having such jurisdiction, and this offer of settlement rescinded and amended to include other such items - including punitive damages, with all costs and fees, as well.

Sincerely,

Humans Freed from Rawat Cult Clutches

[Note: "Offer of Compromise But Not as an Admission"]







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