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Ha ha they're ripping off Rawat's schtick - will he sue for impersonation I wonder ? http://www.acim.org/ Published and Disseminated by
Foundation for Inner Peace
A Not for Profit Organization Welcome to A Course in Miracles' Web site.
We're happy to have you as our online guest while you access first-hand information about the Course—a unique, universal, self-study spiritual thought system that teaches the way to Love and Inner Peace is through forgiveness.
Modified by Nik at Wed, Apr 18, 2007, 12:00:36
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The success of 'A Course In Miracles' and the user base and credibility (well in certain circles) is so huge, gigantic and overwhelming compared to that of Prem Rawat that it is the height of absurdity to suggest, even in jest, that the elephant has ripped off the rat.
Bloato Rawat is sucking on the dregs of the sweet schtick that is dripping off the small, frayed ends of Marianne Williamson's cloak of truth and knowledge that trails behind her. While Bloato only claims to be a reincarnation of Jesus, Marianne channels him. I don't recall the Ms Williamson ever claimed to be an 8 year old Perfect Master and Lord of the Universe but maybe I've forgotten those 30 year old details.
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but she did welcolm him to Tucson recently. Also, is it not true that John McG's daughter got sucked into one of the ACIM cults - The Endeavour Academy? Personally, I must say that the book has been a source of inspiration but the idea of a study group(where's my gun?) or cult based around it is obviously anathema to me. As for Marianne, I did like her wonderful quote that is usually attributed to Nelson Mandela which he used on his inaugural speech but she is way too saccharine (sp?) for me. Not as bad as Paulo Coehlo though. Now there is a dreadful writer.
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Do you mean Marianne Williamson personally welcomed Prem Rawat to Tucson? If she did, that is certainly very magnanimous of her.
Why would a study group of people based around ACIM be anathema to you? Seems to me that if the book is a source of inspiration to you then a group of people searching together for deeper inspiration and transcending their deepest fear would be even more inspiring.
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they seem to turn into cults, is all.
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she welcomed him on Myspace
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Can you give me a link? The Marianne Williamson MySpace page has nothing to do with her personally but is a
"tribute" to her. Rawat's minions use any tenuous link to make it sound like he is a somebody to be respected.
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sorry, but I can't recall where I saw it.
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No link to a face to face meeting of these two great speakers on peace - sorry that should read slime sucking fraudsters - but here's a nice little closing of the circle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Cagan Collaborations- Diana Ross, Secrets of a Sparrow, Random House, ISBN 0-51716-622-4
- Marianne Williamson, A Return to Love: Reflections on the Principles of "A Course in Miracles, Harper Paperbacks, ISBN 0-06092-748-8
- Marianne Williamson, A Woman's Worth (1994), Chivers North America, ISBN 0-792-71843-7
- Lynda Obst, Hello, He Lied -- and Other Tales from the Hollywood Trenches (1997), Broadway, ISBN 0-767-90041-3
- Marianne Williamson, Illuminata: A Return to Prayer (1995), Riverhead Trade, ISBN 1-573-22520-7
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“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pretty good stuff, no? Let's see Rawat come up with something like this. Steve
Modified by Steve at Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 08:56:43
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Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Yep, that's the one that keeps me awake at night! Uplifting words, but full of bollocks - I expect to be flamed for being such a party pooper.
Surrounded as I am by all this spiritual stuff, I'd guess that our deepest fear is that we are not something special, that we really are some insignificant speck - so we have to create all this feelgood stuff to keep the big bad bogey man of insigificance away.
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Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Yep, that's the one that keeps me awake at night! Uplifting words, but full of bollocks - I expect to be flamed for being such a party pooper. Surrounded as I am by all this spiritual stuff, I'd guess that our deepest fear is that we are not something special, that we really are some insignificant speck - so we have to create all this feelgood stuff to keep the big bad bogey man of insigificance away. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the contrary, I was the one expecting to be flamed and you didn't disappoint. If want you to see yourself as an insignificant speck then go ahead. The choice is yours. The only thing that's keeping you from getting what you want is the story you keep telling yourself.
Related link: http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/watchtower.html
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You're assuming that something is keeping me from getting what I want. That isn't my experience.
The idea that there is something keeping you from getting what you want is your experience, your story, and if you stopped telling yourself that, you wouldn't need to lean on wishful thinking.
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People who think they are powerless, ordinary and insignificant usually don’t get what they want. You must be an exception. As for me, I like feeling good and thinking positively. Different horses for different courses.
Related link: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/positive-thinking/SR00009
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I enjoy feeling good and I think positively but I don't do or think anything to create this in myself. I believe I am ordinary, completely insignificant in the universal scale but reasonably significant within my community (firnds and family and work, etc) and that I have no particular power.
I am also perceptive enough to know that most of the people that I have ever known who espoused the ideas you are enthusiaastically claiming for your own do not in any way experience life differently than most. Actually quite a few of them do experience the reverse, it is wishful thinking they indulge in because their actual lives are so far from that you are saying you experience. There is a significant minority of the people I've known (premies invluded) who are on this treadmill of expectation and "creative visualisation" that never comes to fruition. Fortunately for them, I only know people in pretty comfortable life conditions, so it seems to me that it's both an entertainment to help pass the time but possibly also a hindrance to more actual enjoyment and inner peace.
I've will also say that your off the cuff responses to 13 consigning him/her to the dustbin of "failing to get what he wants" and your idea that "getting what you want" is some ultimate goal makes you look pretty shallow and venal. Even contestants in the Miss USA contest say that their goals begin with "world peace" or so I've been told.
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Most people want to be healthy and have a happy and successful life and you think that makes them shallow and venal? Did you even bother reading the link?
Modified by Steve at Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 23:15:40
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No that doesn't make them shallow and venal. What makes a person shallow and venal is thinking they anyone isn't getting those things because their deepest fear is that they are powerful beyond measure when a large proportion of the human population is born into circumstances where their realistic and deepest fears are starvation, death, disease, etc.
Yes I looked at both links though I didn't find the lyrics to all Along the Watchtower to be particularly appropriate. Positive thinking is only helpful when a person's life is not positive but you are confusing realistic conceptualisation of the human condition with grandiose, false ideas about humanity and wishful thinking. If you have achieved health, wealth, happiness and love that is because of your inheritance and your environment and possibly a fair swag of luck but not because of Ms Williamson's "channelled" ideas. OTOH if I had to choose between being guided by http://marianne.com/book/index.htm or http://www.tprf.org/ I'd certainly opt for Ms Williamson.
With just a half hour's browsing of her site some obvious differences show up with the Rawatism sites. The price of her books and speeches are upfront. There are no "secret techniques". Possibly like many "inspirational speakers", Ms Williamson provides more expensive "products" for people who want to get closer to her but you pay in advance upfront. I could learn pretty well everything she has to teach from my local library system, at no cost. Apparently she is not particularly popular at the moment as most of her books and media are available without delay at this time whereas I would ahve to wait one to two months for a copy of "The Secret".
Modified by ocker at Fri, Apr 20, 2007, 18:55:51
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I like this Marianne Williamson quote, not because it is wonderful poetry, but because it's the opposite of everything we were taught as premies. She says: “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.” As premies we were told that we were inadequate. Maharaj Ji's glory filled the world, not ours. We were the weary and the weak needing protection. We could do nothing by our own efforts; it was all done by the grace of satguru. When he spoke, darkness flew away, but when we spoke he ridiculed us and called us bongos and lone rangers for thinking for ourselves. Maharaji was the superior power in person and we were, by inference, inferior. Maharaji was the brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous one and we were dust at his feet. Heavenly hosts were definitely not singing our praises. We were "loosers" filled with the impurities of this world. That got old for me very quickly. The Dylan quote? Well 13 said that we were insignificant specks. Nihilism is the belief that life is pointless and human values are worthless. I took this to mean that 13 thought nothing mattered and that life was a meaningless joke. "No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late." Life matters to me now because I matter to me. Who I am matters and how I live makes a difference. I am now powerful and significant because I have taken my power back. I believe it's our decisions and not the conditions of our lives that determine our destiny. We can't always control the wind but we can control our sails. We must play the hand we were dealt as best as we can. "The Secret" is readily available where I am and I quite liked it although it is a bit simplistic. I recommend it to all ex-premies who want stand on their own two feet.
Modified by Steve at Fri, Apr 20, 2007, 23:07:31
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'Well 13 said that we were insignificant specks.'
I meant that that is one of many reasonable perspectives. Depends on context. I think an acknowledgement of our insignificance in the universe is pretty healthy - the other side of appreciating how big and beautiful and complex the universe is.
Because I don't believe in miracles and don't value wishful thinking does not mean that I think life is pointless, and values worthless. That's like saying I can't enjoy Christmas because I don't believe in Santa.
You think 'Who I am matters and how I live makes a difference'. I think, ultimately, who I am and how I live doesn't make any difference whatsoever. That doesn't mean I can't live AS IF who I am and how I live makes a difference. The difference between the two stances is that the first requires an unproven self-importance, a narcissistic seriousness, a belief in such grandiose notions as destiny.
I believe the second stance is more flexible, more open to learning, needs no injection of wishful thinking to maintain it and you get to spend more time out and about than sitting about naval-gazing, checking out how powerful you feel.
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Modified by Steve at Sat, Apr 21, 2007, 15:25:54
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Talk about paradox! Talk about lila! It was astoundingly obvious that young Rawat was neither brilliant, gorgeous or talented but after all he was God in a Bod and I think many premies believed it was their impurities that prevented them from seeing Rawat as he really was.
Your current viewpoints seem a lot healthier than the Rawatism ones but I'll maintain a certain degree of skepticism until your ”presence automatically liberates others.”
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Your current viewpoints seem a lot healthier than the Rawatism ones but I'll maintain a certain degree of skepticism until your ”presence automatically liberates others.” These are Marianne Williamson’s current viewpoints! I was just curious about the quote from her that is usually attributed to Nelson Mandela and so I looked it up. I thought it was pretty good so I posted it. That's all. I am not a Marianne Williamson follower and although I find here viewpoints interesting I don’t agree with everything she says.
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Talk about paradox! Talk about lila! It was astoundingly obvious that young Rawat was neither brilliant, gorgeous or talented but after all he was God in a Bod and I think many premies believed it was their impurities that prevented them from seeing Rawat as he really was. Yeah, whenever I had doubts about Rawat I thought it was because of my impurities not his ordinariness. I would blame myself for seeing him as he really was. That is a classic Catch 22.
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“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? My version: **I knew that I was inadequate, it wasn't even a fear because I was told this constantly as a child by my parents and by my religious leaders. I grew up to know better. I had a deep fear that I was powerful and talented. I was brought up to feel that I was useless and weak before my parents and before God. I later learned how to cherish myself, my power, my intellect, my emotions, and to honor my talents. I learned to love myself first, realizing I cannot love others before I understand the need to know and love myself. **  I disagree with the light as being the one most feared. I think it's the dynamic of an all-powerful Power and all-powerful parents that can make us fear our uniqueness and the ability to love fully. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.” I think everybody will be a lot happier when people stop raising their children to fear God and themselves as parents the all-powerful. When parents start to love their children healthier and better, while protecting them from harm, along with taking some decent parenting classes --that includes never hitting or verbally abusing their children -- then people won't grow up feeling so inadequate, broken, and hurt, as people who later in life need this kind of trite tripe. But, that's just me... 
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Apr 19, 2007, 13:20:49
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thank you for this wonderful post! You've done it again!!
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Marianne Williamson also wrote a book called A Course in Miracles, but this looks like another snake-oil sales campaign to get unhappy people to pay money for nothing.
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>Highly unlikely. It is available for free.< Ah Grasshopper have you learned nothing from your time here ? Rawat's Knowledge is "Free" - doesn't mean there's not money in it. CIM may not have the pressure fund raising of the Rawat corporation but it's got copyright study materials, teaching packs and reference books, all of which cost. N
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Oh naive one! It may be free on Wikipedia, but it's never better than when bought and sold.
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I've looked throug some of the lessons, randomly, they're free on the net: lesson 10 says: My thoughts do not mean anything. it has a very systematic method of denying reality, physical, thoughts and emotions, as a matter of fact every known reality. At the end of this tedious proecess which proceeds from day to day - waits for us Jesus, the eternal love and ultimate reality. One section is about evil as an illusion. The true happiness lies in denying everything. I agree they are much more thorough than "our" guru, but i fear that much more dangerous to mind and ego. As usual with all these panacea promoters - first deny your mind and then - you'll buy anything we have to sell.
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it is just a book!! Just don't get involved in the 'study groups'
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