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Hilltop might have some quotation material.
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It's funny how premies seem to have forgotten that their leader, the inspirational speaker, the humanitarian, is an ex-Perfect Master. Rawat used to talk a lot about the Perfect Master ( in the third person usually of course, always alluding to himself ), not so long ago.
I guess they think they have developed, and gone beyond such naive stereotyping. And Rawat doesn't need to talk to them in that way any more to get their attention, so he can be just their special friend. I am just guessing - probably most of them don't really give it any thought, let alone speak of it.
It's clear Rawat never was the Perfect Master he claimed to be. He was just a very naughty boy. Neither is he now the inspirational speaker they claim him to be. He is just a very boring 'poet'.
Maybe exchanges like the one on Amazon will make one or two think - 'well, who do I really think he is...' and any answer they come up with is harder to maintain than no answer at all ( hence 'never leave room for doubt in your mind').
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Very much so yes, and I found this one on reincarnation with unlimited future rebirth from as late as 1991 - not just his childhood naivity days - he's 32 here - the same speech refers to the fall of the Berlin Wall - it's a translation from his India talks - seems he says different things in different countries. Maharaji on Karmic re-incarnation -
http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/premie.htm This wasn't a naive childhood
speec, but given in 1991 when Maharaji was in his early 30's.
"You know, you may die tomorrow." And instructors would say, "Maybe, you
will die tomorrow. And if you don't receive Knowledge, you shall have to
undergo the cycle of birth and death continuously for millions of time."
And if people hear this, even the most courageous ones will be
frightened to death: "Oh, my goodness, mahatmaji, please give me
Knowledge just now." Why just now? Why the Knowledge should be given? So
that it may save him from roaming in the vicious circle of the eighty
four hundred thousand births and deaths. "
In the same Satsang speech he denounces materialism of a kind he thrives
on personally - "Oh, this world is so stupidly infatuated for their name
and fame, that is beyond description. People seem to be ready to do
everything for their neighbor except anything good. If the neighbor has
one car, they must have two cars. If their neighbor has two cars, then
they require three and if the neighbor has three, they have to have
four. " He then tells people they are drowning in the Maya - The Hindu
veil of material illussion, and the Kali Yuga - "So far you have been a
devotee of only one thing and that is maya (illusion). And if you are
left alone just for one minute, you will again become a devotee of maya.
Apparently you don't know how to practice real devotion. You only know
how to practice devotion of maya. You can become a devotee of kali-yuga
(dark-age), but if you want to be a true devotee, for that also you
shall have to ask, how is that possible? " Sadly he doesn't tell us how
it is possible here.
http://www.lulu.com/content/757452 My book on Maharaji - BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR'S TALE
Arthur Chappell arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk
My Space. http://www.myspace.com/56954240
Web site www.arthurchappell.clara.net/
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Hi Arthur Your doing a fine job,sir "And if you don't receive Knowledge, you shall have to
undergo the cycle of birth and death continuously for millions of time" Actually, (as bad and/or as good as life is), I wouldn't mind a few more rebirths - the alternative to rebirth being what? I am unaware of a previous birth. Is their still hope? Or is the idea to avoid being reborn? Would this mean a lot of childless couples, diminishing human population until - what? No one left to inhabit the planet? So what happens at death then. A previous post spoke of an "infantile fear of death" which struck a chord. Did he mean infantile as opposed to juvenile or senile fear? Or do infants have a 'fear' of death already? But but but ... I'll be OK I got de nollidge, right? Best Zed
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Actually Rawat used the term "Master" in reference to himself as recently as 2005 at a program in Miami Beach. Kabir
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Was it 1995 or 1996 when Maharaji had his 25th anniversary celebrations of his coming to the west? When he was speaking at the LA program he said, "When you are dying, think of me."
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Arthur, Maharaji spoke about Kali Yuga within the past five years. He was quoted on the old, now defunct premie website "Enjoying Life with Knowledge." The reason I remember it is because I bookmarked it at the time because I was surprised he referred to Kali Yuga. Unfortunately, all versions of the ELK site are gone and can't even be found by using the Way Back Machine so my bookmark is useless. Rawat talked about Kali Yuga a lot. Larry is full of sh*t. I don't know how you can stand talking to that person because his writing sucks and he makes no sense, particularly because he puts so much effort into trying to sound intelligent and he's not! Here's some Rawat Kali Yuga talk from EPO: Balyogeshwar
Shri Sant Ji
Maharaj
Says:
"Do you know the lotus flower? The lotus flower grows in filthy water, yet it is pure."
"The shopowner is one, the shopkeepers are many."
"You do not want to just polish the car, the outside. You want to work on the inside."
"Soon, everyone will have the same knowledge I give. Quite soon. I will not say when. I do not prophesy. But the age of kali yuga (darkness) will change to the age of kali satya (light) soon."
Related link: "Kali Yuga." Right out of Guru Maharaj Ji's big fat mouth!
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It is all so long ago I don't remember the details, but I do remember being told that if I didn't make it to the Millenium festival, I would be left behind as the astrodrome and all the inhabitants were taken somewhere else!!! Talk about doomsday cult. And yet I didn't see it then. There was a great panic to get to that festical because of all the threats for those being left behind. Someone else might remember the details.
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Hi Authur You are doing a good job on Amazon. Luv the review of the P.I.P. Squeak Bio. This time the squeaky wheel won’t get much oil.
Modified by geo at Wed, Feb 28, 2007, 14:35:42
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Thanks for the kind replies and useful data - all very welcome. Things are getting interesting and sinister there now, My reference to 12 year old Maharaji' s quite plainly quoted boast that he was going to
destroy the movie making industry really rattled poor Lawrence Mark Lustbader - he's convinced we hate-cultists falsely forged it into the
papers that quote it - "I have enjoyed re-reading that transcript for years and there is no part in any authentic published version that talks of films being destroyed and music causing harm to religions."A more aggressive stance is taken here with an attempt to blatantly hijack the thread and make it talk about other stuff - From Radford Ellis - "Authur,I think you might be putting everyone to sleep, everywhere. But I'm sure we both love seeing frauds, charlatans and ugly people exposed. The latest.Unemployed surfer' Cagan's book refers to him as, and rumour has it that was putting it very kindly, now alone, bitter and hunched 24/7 over a computer terminal reinventing his dismal existence as a self appointed historian of PR's life and work. Don't laugh, he actually believes a treacherous welfare parasite who grasses his colleagues will be taken seriously. Such is this man's public image dillema, he continued referring to his 'wife' in relationship terms several months after the good lady had actually fled. Reckoned it made him seem credible on the hate forum where even they found him uncomfortable to be around after his exposure as a coward of such notoriety.
But in some quarters Tom Gubler is taken notice of, his terms of release from a possible gaol sentence were quite clear. It appears he has breached them and will be shortly facing the consequences. I can almost here lovers of truth and unity the world over shouting 'There is a GOD!' " My reply - "Radford, the sheer nastiness of your comments on the man you refer to, who I don't know, are a clear disgusting example of the hostility you show - that you write of a man like that whiile accusing others of 'hate' really speaks for itself. I'll be watching this one closely."
http://www.lulu.com/content/757452 My book on Maharaji - BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR'S TALE
Arthur Chappell arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk
My Space. http://www.myspace.com/56954240
Web site www.arthurchappell.clara.net/
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Hi Arthur,
I am a pretty private person but just so you know the truth of what Radford Ellis is posting. I am not alone, though I am currently living alone. I have a large network of family and friends and an active social life. I am not bitter, I am one of the happiest, most enthusiastic and positive people you're ever likely to meet, (if we ever meet) more so than nearly any premie I've known in the last 25 years.
I am not a welfare parasite and never have been. I referred to my wife as my wife while she was my wife. I believe we have been divorced for about a fortnight. I am not sure what "grasses his colleagues" refers to exactly. I have in a couple of workplaces been what is known as a "whistle blower". I stand up for what I think is right which is the reason I publicly criticse Prem Rawat and his so-called "Knowledge".
I acted in a cowardly manner once in my life to try to protect my former wife (and myself no doubt).
Am I about to face the consequences of a possible goal sentence? I've heard nothing and as far as I know I have not breached any conditions of any court order that I may or may not have ever been under that may or may not have anything to do with Prem Rawat.
I am never hunched over a computer terminal. I sit up straight to protect my back and I suggest you do the same. 24/7? Hardly. I'm willing to bet I spend less time than Radford Ellis and though I spend more time at a computer these days than in the surf or gardening this is only because I am 57 years old and have done so much physical activity in my life that my body is a bit worn and damaged.
So far today the I've spent more time in the surf than at the keyboard and I am pretty bloody tired and happy.
My life has never been dismal and I had a ball as a premie. I really enjoyed it. It was a long time ago but I don't think I'm seeing it through rosy glasses. I've just had a quick glance at http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/15644.html and I'm definitely looking pretty jolly though so was everyone else inthe hall at the moment the photo was taken.
What these premies don't seem to realise is that it wouldn't matter if everything they've said about me is true. While Prem Rawat's character and life is a very important determining factor in making judgements about his "teachings" it is irrelevant to criticisms of him. Either he did say "Kaliyuga will come to an end and Satyuga will start and people will listen to
me and act accordingly. Do you think it is a joke? The great leaders think that
I have come to rule and yes, they are right! I will rule the world, and just
watch how I will do it. Even the lion and sheep will embrace each other. Has
there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama was not such a
king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but
I have come to the world with full powers. Accept my words, accept me. I will
give you Knowledge. If you mistake my meaning, if you mistake a single word of
what I am saying, I will not forgive you." at the so-called Peace Bomb satsang or he didn't. It doesn't matter if I am evil or you are evil if we report that. It only matters if Rawat is evil. Radford Ellis may not be evil but he sure sounds bitter and hunch-backed.
Modified by ocker at Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 01:21:30
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I was personally at that peace bomb satsang and understood some Hindi, over the days you get to have every word said to you again and again by the premies and mahatmas on the field.
For days it was all the devotees talked about and translated to me.
Thankyou for printing them up. I always carried them in my memory, not with so much of a shudder now. It was there that I was taught to fear him, and yet to still love him? I felt the vibe and had the words drummed into me by every mahatma around me. They were all visibly shaken.
I carried a dark heavy feeling from that day inside that I dared not express, but instead tried to be more devoted like so many external examples around me. I feel ashamed now to say yes it was fear, he terrified me: made me feel as if, really, (actually) or metaphorically he could crush me like a fly between his finger and thumb.
His huge crowds in India of mass hysteria, his attempts to, at first duplicate that here, and then to slowly pare it down in all but the remaining financial aspect, I still fear, but now more for the others, any, even one is too many, who they work damn hard to include.
And, I am not thick skinned, deliberately so, believing rightly or wrongly, that I might have served humanity better if i maintained the sensitivity I was given as a child or born with.
So cowardly though it sounds I also fear these scathing attacks on mental health, integrity, or intent, or another biased revision of my own history, or another whithering attempt to reduce my credibility and the viability of my words or expressed experiences, because it adds to the confusion and sadness that is the result of having given so much effort and time to this guru for nothing.. I was not around when much of the inter - national humour was being evolved and don't always get all of it.
But I can see a blatant attack on another fellow's personal life when I see it. I am moved to hear the depiction of a man's life so thoughtlessly treated. I applaud you. Tom, as you walk down the beach, surfboard under arm. May the spray lift away these shadows of the past, for long moments.
Our criticism is limited here (or should be, I hope) to guru Maharaji's mistakes and the unholy grip he has upon his subjects, not the persons themselves. And it is usually carefully chosen to offset the blatantly over-blown images he has sent us of himself, and the undue respect he has bullied from us, in his all-powerful posing.
I also strongly criticize the hypnotic spell that premies are under, and its effects, where I see them, to indicate the harm done, but not the premie: the person.
I find this unwarranted assault upon your name and person, Tom, on the book forum: a totally distasteful move on the part of Radford Ellis and nothing to do with reviewing a book.
It is a blatant and startling example of what I have struggled with words to describe at times. Maharaji's message is pushed without scruples or respect for persons. Fortunately that is prem's own foot in Radford's sights.. not you.
Enjoy your swim.
Modified by Lp at Thu, Mar 01, 2007, 03:55:52
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Thanks for the replies on this - especially you Tom. The extraordinary malicious nature of the groundless attacks on you astound me - Cagan is rash for raising the subject - Radford dares to mention you by name - gloating in a fate you never seemed to face and certainly would never deserve - I think you have good grounds for a lawsuit from this - I suspect the motive for throwing into the thread I launched on the Cagan book is to insinuate that i'll face similar attacks if I keep being mean enough to criticise Maharaji - but they won't silence me that way.
http://www.lulu.com/content/757452 My book on Maharaji - BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR'S TALE
Arthur Chappell arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk
My Space. http://www.myspace.com/56954240
Web site www.arthurchappell.clara.net/
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Tom.
I'm sorry to hear of your divorce, especially as, as far as I understand, the unfortunate series of events surrounding Rawat's heavy-handed legal attack on John MacGregor were partly as a result of your attempt to protect your wife.
I do hope that didn't have anything to do with it.
I haven't been following the exchanges on the Amazon site, mainly due to terminal boredom; these kind of fruitless conversations with cult apologists were done to death yrs ago on previous forums to this one, without the slightest movement shown by them.
I must say that Radford Ellis seems to be very well aquainted with your personal situation, much beyond what could be gleaned about you from even the most assiduous reading of your posts here as Ocker. Indeed why should he even assume that Ocker is Tom unless he has read not only your posts but everyone elses here for some considerable period of time.
It's very unpleasant to realise that Rawat's goons are still on the case, large as life & twice as unnatural, with their attempts at character assassination & thinly veiled threats.
All the best to you
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I assume Radford Ellis is one of the Byron Bay premies, one who doesn't spell very well, and premies still gossip like crazy. Most of what he writes has only a tenuous relationship to true events.
My "attempts to protect my wife" were too late to have any bearing on John's travails and I hope your other hopes bear more fruit. I haven't bothered with Amazon either except to read and copy Lustbader's raves. I find premie nastiness sometimes inspiring though more often dispiriting.
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