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>Did Elan Vital appropriate the name from the philosopher Bergson do you think?< More like: Did Rawat appropriate the name Elan Vital from the philosopher Bergson ? Unless someone else is prepared to own up to suggesting the name, it's Rawat that has to take the responsibility for deciding to rename DLM as EV. Of course no one at EV has ever explained why Bergson's 'elan vital' was deemed relevant to Rawat's 'teaching'. It's just a divine mystery. Does Rawat ever talk about conciousness ? Surely it's a rather too complex issue for his banal "all you need is to be able to feel peace" message ? N
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The elan vital is the "life force" that many people believe is the difference between inanimate objects and living ones. Between his "Knowledge reveals God" and his "Knowledge shows you the possibility of inner peace" there was a large section of time when Prem Rawat claimed "Knowledge reveals the source of life deep within inside each person".
So 'Elan Vital' seems a pretty good name for DLM lite version 2 though how he ever heard about it is a mystery as Charles Cameron, DLM intellectual par excellence was way gone by then. Actually shouldn't we be pointing the finger at Mike Finch? He would appear to be the right man for that job.
Mike, was it you?
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The story I heard at the time was that Rawat had a dream where, guess who? appeared to him and told him to use 'elanvital')..
.
..
can't guess/ ....
clue; the same guess who's voice told him 3 times to 'take this knowledge out into the world'. no more clues
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Did he appear to himself? The barber shaves everyone who doesn't shave himself (herself). Who shaves the barber? The hangman hangs everyone who doesn't hang himself. Who hangs the hangman? The guru gives knowledge to everyone who doesn't give knowledge themselves. Who gives the guru knowledge? Is this cunning linguistic stuff or dead profound Zed 
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{answers that I would have given when a premie}
"Did he appear to himself?"
Of course he did. Everyone else is illusion. Constant mediation on the Holy Name will show you this Truth.
"The guru gives knowledge to everyone who doesn't give knowledge themselves.
Who gives the guru knowledge?" The Guru is Knowledge. He only goes through act of 'receiving knowledge' because He is so copmpassionate. Just ask Charanand he recognised little prem as LOTU while HansJi was alive(although he can't realy die ...cough cough ) "Is this cunning linguistic stuff or dead profound" To quote kenny Everit...cunning stunts
Modified by Jethro at Tue, Nov 07, 2006, 06:26:14
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Only to be understood by a cunning linguist.... Kabir
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In WIGM young Prem doesn't say whose voice it is. Has he ever revealed the knowledge of whose voice?
On
the day Shri Maharaj Ji left his body, a disciple tearfully
begged to speak once more with his master. The young Guru
Maharaj Ji had replied, "Shri Maharaj Ji has only left his
body, but his spiritual body is still here, and he will
appear again after a few days." At the time, he did not
fully realize that this power was within him. "I
went home (from school) and everyone was, weeping. I was
just sitting there not weeping and something began to happen
to me. I began to feel that I am not this body; that I could
not move these lips. I always thought that the soul would
leave by the mouth, but my mouth was shut. Still I felt like
I was leaving my body and my soul was everywhere going out.
And this voice came to me saying, 'You are he, you are the
one to continue.' "Then
I puzzled over the voice. Thirteen days later, I was doing
pranam to my Father's ashes and bones. You know, in India
they burn the bodies and thirteen days later you go and
collect the ashes. I bent down to touch the ashes, the voice
came: 'You are he. You are the one to go and give this to
the world."' On
August 1st, Guru Maharaj Ji, eight years old, stood in front
of the thousands of devotees present at his father's
funeral. The voice came again, saying: "This
is the last I will tell you. You are he. You must take this
Knowledge out to the world." "For
the first time," says Guru Maharaj Ji, "I did not give
satsang. The satsang just came and I began to speak: Dear
children of God, why are you weeping? Haven't you learned
the lesson that your master taught you? The Perfect Master
never dies. Maharaj Ji is here, amongst you now." Immediately
his mother, three elder brothers and all the mahatmas
present, prostrated at the feet of the Perfect Master and
received his blessings.
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Hello Zed, If I'm remembering correctly, Elan Vital is the name that was given to one of the DLM publications, And it is Divine -- the glossy one. That happened a few years prior to DLM changing its name to Elan Vital. I think the new name was explained in the first issue with the EV name, as the "vital force of life." I'm sure that Rawat claimed it as his own.  As for consciousness, well I just Googled it and came up with 53.5 Million hits! That tells me that no one knows, but a lot of people think they know. The definitions of consciousness are a philosophical, a psychological, scientific, and religious things. I discount (on purpose) anything Rawat ever said about it. Screw him because he's stupid. I know for sure that when I'm unconscious, I'm either asleep or in a coma. Is it my consciousness ( my possession), or is it shared. I don't know. There are so many opinions about it, but I consider myself the owner of myself and my consciousness. I'm aware of my self, and my self belongs to me (imo). I don't know if there is a universal consciousness. Carl Jung believed it and wrote extensively on it. He's very interesting to read, too, although I don't agree with his philosophy anymore. I recommend reading all the points of view. I don't think anyone knows the answer, but it sure can be fun discussing it. Whenever I don't understand something to my satisfaction, I like to first start learning about it by looking up a dictionary definition of the particular word. That gives me the conventional use of the word and the etymology, or origin of the word. From there, I explore other writings, if I'm still interested. I avoid "teachings," because I'm only interested in reading reputable teachers, i.e., scholars, academics, philosophers, psychologists, scientists, etc. Gurus and other people who offer "teachings" are ususally people who offer rigid belief systems. From there, I draw my own conclusions, but my conclusions are never engraved in stone, mainly because there is always something else to learn. Over the years, I've realized that my opinions and conclusions are just as good and as valuable as anyone else's opinions and conclusions. The same goes for you. Here's the Merrian-webster definition of consciousness: Function: noun
1 a : the quality or state of being aware especially of something within oneself b : the state or fact of being conscious of an external object, state, or fact c : AWARENESS; especially : concern for some social or political cause
2 : the state of being characterized by sensation, emotion, volition, and thought : MIND
3 : the totality of conscious states of an individual
4 : the normal state of conscious life consciousness>
5 : the upper level of mental life of which the person is aware as contrasted with unconscious processes |  |
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Nov 03, 2006, 14:41:28
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Cynthia, you are right. Elan Vital was a name of one DLM's magazines. I forgot where I read it but it was probably in the lengthy article by Wim Haan.
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I remember that it had to be late 1977 or or early 1978 because I was still living in Connecticut and not even in the ashram yet when the first issue was released. I'd be interested to read what was said about the name-change. Also good info to know is if it was DLM that claimed copyright or Visions International. It definitely was a glossy magazine, lots and lots of photos of Rawat and his satsangs.
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, Nov 04, 2006, 10:15:55
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Hi Cynthia, I don't think I have the first issue but I'll take a look as soon as I get my stuff out of storage. I'm just getting caught up on my reading here. Hilltop
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Speaking from memory, "elan vital" is the Vitalist Movement's way of avoiding a multitude of its own uncertainties and still sounding authoritative. In the absence of any clear understanding of what acually life was, vitalists decided to invent a "something" that arrived from "somewhere", and "somehow" "inhabited" inorganic matter. The life force naturally had rules of its own unlike the physical world, so it was no use asking exactly what it was etc. It was a quasi physical Force (capital) in concept but somhow more, but exactly how no one could ever say. It was of course "the way forward". As I recall, one skeptic spoke of Vitalism as follows: If you knew nothing about a railway engine you could assert, on the same grounds of certainty as the "elan vital", that the engine's governing principle was an "Elan Locomotif".Great.. Elan Vital simply sets up another abstract category (sui generis!),Humpty Dumpty styly, into which it then pours whatever content it feels answers whatever questions it then feels the need to fail to answer! Alice can invent as many Wonderlands as she wants. The perfect name for the Rawat family business imo Love Bryn
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Well with all sorts of outdated philsophies encompassed by it I guess Elan Vital is suited to the Rawat cult - still just for clarity's sake: Vital Force was biology specific - it was a proposition for a 'motor' behind evolution before Darwinian 'natural selection' was fully embraced. Vitalism was a more general philosophical invention which posited that phenomena can't be explained in purely mechanical terms. Bergson was, I think, the first to conjoin elan with vital, and while he seems to have adopted the inadequacies of both Vital Force and Vitalism into his thinking, his main use of 'elan vital' was as a kind of first principle of every thing. I'm not sure that 'big bang' physics has actually progressed beyond a Bergsonian 'first principle'. I still think EV ought to publish an explanation for why it is so called. Nik
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) excellent