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...about the early days in the West and small groups receiving knowledge. I think Maharaji gave knowledge personally to several larger groups in the late eighties.It was the usual build up....he announced while on tour that he would be giving knowledge himself to make everything more personal and to avoid any "misunderstandings" that the "less than perfect initiators" might be passing on and also to show how much he loved and cared about each one of us.( I can't remember the actual words he used but I remember what I understood by it all). Actually it was just another of his many gimmicks to give the illusion that everything was progressing and the great plan for world peace was unrolling. I think I once met a premie who had actually received k. from him in the late eighties ( or was it early nineties...anyone else remember the period when he was doing this?). He conducted the session but initiators would help.I suppose it was just the same as those en masse ( like moonie weddings!) knowledge reviews.Mike Finch would probably know the details.
Modified by lexy at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 18:07:11
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Hi Lexy,
I've no recollection of him giving knowledge personally, a few reviews once. I was pretty distant by the time I heard about his "doing it all himself" and heard about some of his knowledge selections which he did himself, ( brutally, but skillfully parodied, by the late Rodney Halstead, (not personally recommended reading for premies or the faint hearted, (and I remember advising him to edit it, being one he showed his rough draughts to before submission.))) 
These selections were video fed sometimes too. Weren't
they?
Little imP (who also does not advise visualising elephants) 
Modified by Saph at Mon, Oct 23, 2006, 03:14:31
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Maharaji's first ever solo Knowledge session was in the Gatwick Hilton to two people, sometime in the mid 1980's. I set it up for him, and was administering it. He seemed quite nervous, and it was clearly a big deal for him. When the four of us had finally settled down, after attending to all the details, Maharaji fidgeted around for a while and then asked me to leave, so it was just M and the two aspirants. Afterwards he seemed happy about it, and it clearly went well.He gave me a Knowledge review in 1970 in India, but not just him, all the famous mahatmas of the time were there - Sampurnanand, Ramanand and several others. I remember it as a bit of a circus, all these famous premies and Maharaji determined to make me understand and realise the Knowledge. Maharaji gave me his beragon, a fancy carved one, which he said I could keep. Back in England I often told other premies that it was Maharaji’s own beragon, which made them full of wonder and jealousy, just like owning a Catholic relic. In the mid-1970’s I was told that I was too attached to it, and that I should give it up like a true surrendered devotee. I did, and for ages I felt virtuously surrendered mixed with feeling that I had been conned. -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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The Times, Wednesday, May 31, 1972
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Does the BBC keep those old TV shows and sell them?
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>Does the BBC keep those old TV shows and sell them?< - I think the answer is No ! But there are details of programmes at: http://open.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax N
Modified by Nik at Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 04:00:51
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Thanks for digging that one up Ocker.
There it is in all its unadorned simplicity, the original message, & the one I fell for. It seemed to me at the time that no one could possibly make a statement like that unless it was either true or false. It's completely unambiguous: there's no room at all for manoeuvre.
That poster, though a bit later, was basically the drift of a letter I received from a friend in India just before Christmas 1971. My initial reaction was 'it's false', & the letter written under the influence of that prime quality dope they have there.
I wasn't even interested in checking it out, but only went to Golden Manor to please another friend who was. Funnily enough he never went back, because having been brought up as a Quaker, satsang was too reminiscent, whereas I, with my RC background, didn't have any negative triggers from it, in a social /religious sense.
Many of the people seemed to be several cuts above the average hippie, & some were positively glowing; all were genuine & sincere. I started wavering towards.........could it really be true....surely not, it's impossible... so I decided I'd need to get the knowledge to be certain. After all, anyone would know beyond doubt if they'd seen God or not, wouldn't they...........so to cut a not very long story even shorter, I went back a few times & ducked into a K session I hadn't been chosen for.
The effect wasn't bliss, but a resurgence of memory back before memory is supposed to be possible. I don't think there is yet any explanation for that, despite all the advances in neuroscience, but then it probably hasn't been studied. Suffice to say that this convinced me it must be true.
Clever shit. Not him, the trick.
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There it is in all its unadorned simplicity, the original message, & the one I fell for. It seemed to me at the time that no one could possibly make a statement like that unless it was either true or false. thanks Pat. I thought just the same. I had no religious background at all but as a trainee hippy the energy drew me like a moth to a flame. But its an old trick I suppose. if you are going to lie...make it a big, make it the heart's desire and then let the 'emperor's new clothes effect' keep it going. best Tim
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I wasn't even interested in checking it out, but
only went to Golden Manor to please another friend who was.
The same for me but after one or two visits I said let's wait and see what happens after my friend "receives "Knowledge". He was a pretty dour Scot but he came back and reported that it was worth trying. He'd already dropped out by the time I "received "Knowledge".
Many
of the people seemed to be several cuts above the average hippie, &
some were positively glowing; all were genuine & sincere. I started
wavering towards.........could it really be true....surely not, it's
impossible... so I decided I'd need to get the knowledge to be certain.
And by the time I'd sat through my couple of months of 7 nights a week satsang, it didn't really matter that the "Knowledge techniques" were so banal and disappointing. I thought if I could just get in meditation what I was getting in satsang that would be good enough.
But if you were one of the ones that didn't "see God" then obviously the fault was yours as there were plenty of sincere people saying they had and it looked as if the "less sincere" people were the ones leaving if by then you had already internalised "sincere" as being related to "practising satsang, service and meditation".
Modified by ocker at Tue, Oct 24, 2006, 16:24:27
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It was a god thing for me too. I had to have those techniques just to be sure. When I got them there was a shift-no doubt about it. Unfortunately I was too young and didn't have the wit to evaluate just exactly what was shifting and where etc. so I went along with the god assumption and followed on as a good premie.There was plenty of light, music, holy name, nectar and bliss, plus a lot of music and new friends so why not. Those techniques, oiled by his satsang certainly shifted my self perception down the road a piece.Very powerful formula in their way and difficult to analyse cognitionally exactly what you are doing when you do that meditation. Pity I completely lost the means of evaluating what I was experiencing. Premies to this day still imagine they are riding the cosmic wave to glory with those 4 techniques! Ron Geeves wouldn't even let them be mentioned back when I used to try to discuss stuff with him. Hey ho Love Bryn
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I don't know anything about the early days, but he did give K sessions in the 90s and Alice, an ex who posted here this summer gave her account of receiving K from him in 2000. The edit by admin. in her post was by Alice's request. While an interesting account, it sounds like it was hell on earth. http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/8579.html
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 19:16:24
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If it's not true, it should be removed from Wikipedia.
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And I don't do wiki anymore. Mike, Saph or someone else must know about the early days, but exes aren't reliable sources for wiki. The sources cited in the article for that paragraph #13 and #14 don't have to be factual for wiki, they only have to be published to be considered a reliable source. Yes, I know...
Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Oct 22, 2006, 20:05:18
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